Beyond belief...........

[2aguy]

Once again you post stupidity but are so stupid, you don't know it. Of course bad cops exist, just like idiots (you) exist.

Is pushing division and hatred between races over a minor problem, more important than stopping a much larger problem?

Don't answer please...being an idiot, I know you don't know the answer.

35,000 Americans die of gunshot wounds every single year. Every other civilized country in the world has a lower rate of gun crime and death by guns but Americans cling to their handguns like drowning men to a life raft.

If you think guns are keeping you safe from tyranny, you're sadly mistaken. The government has so much firepower they could blow any armed militia to kingdom come in a heartbeat, should they do choose.

35,000 people a year die from guns. Another 45,000 died from lack of access to healthcare before the ACA. They are preventable deaths but right wingers won't even consider alternatives.

There really is no cure for stupid.

If you really think the government doesn't consider the fact that Americans are armed, you clearly are clueless.

Throughout all human history what do tyrannical regimes have in common? Answer..,they disarm their citizens. Learn from history and stop being a dupe for the ruling class.

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

 

[HenryBHough]

Just because Tainted Welshmen like to cower undefended in their burrows does not mean everyone should.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

35,000 Americans die of gunshot wounds every single year. Every other civilized country in the world has a lower rate of gun crime and death by guns but Americans cling to their handguns like drowning men to a life raft.

If you think guns are keeping you safe from tyranny, you're sadly mistaken. The government has so much firepower they could blow any armed militia to kingdom come in a heartbeat, should they do choose.

35,000 people a year die from guns. Another 45,000 died from lack of access to healthcare before the ACA. They are preventable deaths but right wingers won't even consider alternatives.

There really is no cure for stupid.

If you really think the government doesn't consider the fact that Americans are armed, you clearly are clueless.

Throughout all human history what do tyrannical regimes have in common? Answer..,they disarm their citizens. Learn from history and stop being a dupe for the ruling class.

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

 

[2aguy]

If you really think the government doesn't consider the fact that Americans are armed, you clearly are clueless.

Throughout all human history what do tyrannical regimes have in common? Answer..,they disarm their citizens. Learn from history and stop being a dupe for the ruling class.

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

You mean except for California and New York...right.....? You mistake lack of political power with lack of desire...they have the desire to ban and confiscate guns...they just don't have the power......moron.

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control

So as a gesture to “do something,” the New York City Council and Mayor John Lindsay (R) enacted long-gun registration.

The per gun fee was low, just a few dollars.103 Registration never did solve crimes, and crime continued to worsen.

So in 1991, with the city becoming increasingly unlivable, Mayor David Dinkins (D) made a grand gesture of his own, convincing the City Council to enact a ban on so-called assault weapons.104

Then, the New York police used the registration lists to conduct home inspections of individuals whose registered guns had been outlawed. The police said they were ensuring that the registered guns had been moved out of the city, or had already been surrendered to the government.105

In California, in 2013, only strenuous opposition finally led to the defeat of a proposed law, AB 174, which, before it was amended to cover a different subject, would have confiscated grandfathered assault weapons that had previously been registered in compliance with California state law.

 

[2aguy]

If you really think the government doesn't consider the fact that Americans are armed, you clearly are clueless.

Throughout all human history what do tyrannical regimes have in common? Answer..,they disarm their citizens. Learn from history and stop being a dupe for the ruling class.

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

And since you are pretty stupid....you project your fixation with guns onto me....I have a fixation on the Bill of Rights and the Right of normal, law abiding people to be able to defend themselves from criminals and from their own government....guns just happen to be the best tool for both jobs.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

You mean except for California and New York...right.....? You mistake lack of political power with lack of desire...they have the desire to ban and confiscate guns...they just don't have the power......moron.

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control

So as a gesture to “do something,” the New York City Council and Mayor John Lindsay (R) enacted long-gun registration.

The per gun fee was low, just a few dollars.103 Registration never did solve crimes, and crime continued to worsen.

So in 1991, with the city becoming increasingly unlivable, Mayor David Dinkins (D) made a grand gesture of his own, convincing the City Council to enact a ban on so-called assault weapons.104

Then, the New York police used the registration lists to conduct home inspections of individuals whose registered guns had been outlawed. The police said they were ensuring that the registered guns had been moved out of the city, or had already been surrendered to the government.105

In California, in 2013, only strenuous opposition finally led to the defeat of a proposed law, AB 174, which, before it was amended to cover a different subject, would have confiscated grandfathered assault weapons that had previously been registered in compliance with California state law.

Nobody one either of those States wants to take away all of the guns. You are a delusional freak who has spent too much time on the internet surrounding himself with agreeable blogs and other like minded freaks. Thank goodness for all of us that this represents the height that your freakish ideas or you will ever reach.

 

[2aguy]

The Germans gave up their guns in the 1920s....the socialists didn't start mass murdering innocent people until the 1940s....sometimes the socialists can take a while before they start murdering innocent people....

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

You mean except for California and New York...right.....? You mistake lack of political power with lack of desire...they have the desire to ban and confiscate guns...they just don't have the power......moron.

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control

So as a gesture to “do something,” the New York City Council and Mayor John Lindsay (R) enacted long-gun registration.

The per gun fee was low, just a few dollars.103 Registration never did solve crimes, and crime continued to worsen.

So in 1991, with the city becoming increasingly unlivable, Mayor David Dinkins (D) made a grand gesture of his own, convincing the City Council to enact a ban on so-called assault weapons.104

Then, the New York police used the registration lists to conduct home inspections of individuals whose registered guns had been outlawed. The police said they were ensuring that the registered guns had been moved out of the city, or had already been surrendered to the government.105

In California, in 2013, only strenuous opposition finally led to the defeat of a proposed law, AB 174, which, before it was amended to cover a different subject, would have confiscated grandfathered assault weapons that had previously been registered in compliance with California state law.

Nobody one either of those States wants to take away all of the guns. You are a delusional freak who has spent too much time on the I ternet surrounding himself with agreeable blogs and other lime minded freaks. Thank goodness for all of this that this represents the height that your freakish ideas or you will ever reach.

Yes....they do want to take away all the guns...that you don't understand that shows that you are a fool. I post here, moron...and deal with dipshits like you all the time...I seek you fools out so I can debate you and hone my arguments against your stupid, irrational fear of guns....

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And when did Hitler and the Nazi's come to power?

The 1930s......they then used the gun registration lists created in the 1920s to disarm their political enemies and the Jews...while granting gun ownership to their fellow nazi brown shirts.

Nobody wants to do that here, you freak. Your gun fetish is unhealthy and you need to get counseling. I've seen enthusiasts for different genres and activities in all walks of life. But your insane fetish for an object designed to kill is beyond normal or healthy, and you need to push your life in a new direction before your insane obsession harms you or somebody else.

You mean except for California and New York...right.....? You mistake lack of political power with lack of desire...they have the desire to ban and confiscate guns...they just don't have the power......moron.

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control

So as a gesture to “do something,” the New York City Council and Mayor John Lindsay (R) enacted long-gun registration.

The per gun fee was low, just a few dollars.103 Registration never did solve crimes, and crime continued to worsen.

So in 1991, with the city becoming increasingly unlivable, Mayor David Dinkins (D) made a grand gesture of his own, convincing the City Council to enact a ban on so-called assault weapons.104

Then, the New York police used the registration lists to conduct home inspections of individuals whose registered guns had been outlawed. The police said they were ensuring that the registered guns had been moved out of the city, or had already been surrendered to the government.105

In California, in 2013, only strenuous opposition finally led to the defeat of a proposed law, AB 174, which, before it was amended to cover a different subject, would have confiscated grandfathered assault weapons that had previously been registered in compliance with California state law.

Nobody one either of those States wants to take away all of the guns. You are a delusional freak who has spent too much time on the I ternet surrounding himself with agreeable blogs and other lime minded freaks. Thank goodness for all of this that this represents the height that your freakish ideas or you will ever reach.

Yes....they do want to take away all the guns...that you don't understand that shows that you are a fool. I post here, moron...and deal with dipshits like you all the time...I seek you fools out so I can debate you and hone my arguments against your stupid, irrational fear of guns....

No, they don't , nor would such an idea ever gain any traction, nor would I support it. You are clearly the bigger threat to the well being of the country, and I hope that being a freakish gun fetishist hiding on the internet is all that ever becomea of you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's not illegal to be a fucking idiot, but when they do something stupid, it can often have consequences beyond their own person, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, with rights come responsibilities, and I have no doubt you keep those responsibilities. But can the same be said of everyone else in the country?

I mean, when people shoot other people, there are consequences beyond their own responsibilities.

Yes, with liberty comes choice.

NOW, choice can be trained, and shouldn't schools be training people in how to use their brains a little better?

Look around this forum. How many people on this forum can read a paragraph and then write an answer that response that contains logic, an argument, and something to back that argument up with? I mean, these are basic skills in how to use your brain, and yet most on here struggle. In the US millions of people struggle with these basic skills and then go do stupid stuff with things that are designed to kill with. Hence the reason why the US has a much higher murder rate than EVERY SINGLE first world country.

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

I don't think the problem is that there are "too many" guns. Thay's just a symptom of the disease. The disease itself is our freakish gun culture and our unique (and uniquely stupid) way we have made guns ubiquitous, even expected items in our life, media, and art. We have managed to contort the protection of individual freedoms into the notion of anyone being able to kill anyone at any time. See a guy with a samurai sword, you think "what a freaking dork", or " he's clearly insane and dangerous". See a guy with a gun? He must love freedom!!!'USA! USA!

Once you get around these freakish gun fetishists (and I often do, here in sunny, archaic Indiana), you can tell they are absolutely itching to use their guns on someone, someday. It's not a secret; they explicitly state it. "I hope someone tries some shit on me when I have this bad boy with me! (while holding their penis extension disguised as a hand cannon)

(If you get around a guy with a samurai sword collection who acts like this; acts out cutting a person on half, describes it with glee in gory detail; promises to always carry his favorite samurai sword, in case he needs it....and You will quickly conclude that this person is a freak, and quite possibly a dangerous freak.)

Yes, they (the gun nuts) certainly do hope this (that they get to use their weapons on a person one day), and it is the reason a lot of these freaks carry. Then -- and this is the part that cracks me up -- they spend all of their time at home, work, and the same bar, bowling alley, golf course, etc. with the same people. Ooooh, watch out for Mr. Dangerous, he's really gonna fuck some shit up if the dart league at the bowling alley suddenly turns into Hunger Games. Give me a fuggin break.

 

[2aguy]

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

I don't think the problem is that there are "too many" guns. Thay's just a symptom of the disease. The disease itself is our freakish gun culture and our unique (and uniquely stupid) way we have made guns ubiquitous, even expected items in our life, media, and art. We have managed to contort the protection of individual freedoms into the notion of anyone being able to kill anyone at any time. See a guy with a samurai sword, you think "what a freaking dork", or " he's clearly insane and dangerous". See a guy with a gun? He must love freedom!!!'USA! USA!

Once you get around these freakish gun fetishists (and I often do, here in sunny, archaic Indiana), you can tell they are absolutely itching to use their guns on someone, someday. It's not a secret; they explicitly state it. "I hope someone tries some shit on me when I have this bad boy with me! (while holding their penis extension disguised as a hand cannon)

(If you get around a guy with a samurai sword collection who acts like this; acts out cutting a person on half, describes it with glee in gory detail; promises to always carry his favorite samurai sword, in case he needs it....and You will quickly conclude that this person is a freak, and quite possibly a dangerous freak.)

Yes, they (the gun nuts) certainly do hope this (that they get to use their weapons on a person one day), and it is the reason a lot of these freaks carry. Then -- and this is the part that cracks me up -- they spend all of their time at home, work, and the same bar, bowling alley, golf course, etc. with the same people. Ooooh, watch out for Mr. Dangerous, he's really gonna fuck some shit up if the dart league at the bowling alley suddenly turns into Hunger Games. Give me a fuggin break.

Yeah...except you don't know what you are are talking about.....for you to be right, our gun crime rate would have to be going up, it has been going down...the increase in 2015 was due to attacks on our police, not because more law abiding gun owners own and carry guns....

Our gun culture is not the issue...our problem is a criminal culture that murders easily......and a democrat controlled justice system that allows violent criminals back out of jail over and over again.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

And you are wrong....as more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down....as Britain banned guns...their gun crime rate went up....

The United States:

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain:

Britain banned and confiscated guns in 1997....by 2009 their gun crime rate was up 89%...and has been going up ever since....

Firearms policy in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts[edit]
Following the Dunblane massacre, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, defining "short firearms" as Section 5 Prohibited Weapons, which effectively banned private possession of handguns almost completely.


Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.





The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .



========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

And you are wrong....as more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down....as Britain banned guns...their gun crime rate went up....

The United States:

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Britain:

Britain banned and confiscated guns in 1997....by 2009 their gun crime rate was up 89%...and has been going up ever since....

Firearms policy in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts[edit]
Following the Dunblane massacre, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, defining "short firearms" as Section 5 Prohibited Weapons, which effectively banned private possession of handguns almost completely.


Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.





The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .



========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

I am 100% correct, in that our gun culture is freakish. Maybe you didn't notice my caveat: these fetishists I described are all bluster, and their true method of self defense is insulating themselves in a little echo chamber of a close circle. And thank goodness for that, right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, he's not less dead. However kids who learn to swim might end up not drowning in the future.

So more kids die from drowning. Could this be because more kids swim? Could it also be that more kids will come into contact with water in their life time than with guns?

This isn't a simple comparison you're making here.

Yes, the parent is responsible for the death of their kid. But what of the kid who was shot? Who is responsible for that kid?

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

 

[2aguy]

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Wrong...people on the right are the ones who actually want to solve the problem....you guys want to ban guns. Since of the 9,616 murders in 2015 were criminals murdering other criminals, the "solution" is to lock up criminals who are violent, and who are caught with guns, for a long time. We have a revolving door system where violent criminals with long histories of crime and violence are released even when they are caught carrying illegal guns. These are the ones who are shooting other criminals in our major cities...yet you and other democrats keep fighting to keep putting them back on the street, and you keep going after the police instead of going after these criminals, the ones doing the shooting.

You also focus on normal, law abiding people with stupid anti-gun laws that do nothing to stop these criminals, but give you the opportunity to punish normal people who own and carry guns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Kids who learn gun safety might not end up shot or shooting someone in the future.

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

 

[Eloy]

Except cops are suppose to be above the level of thug life..

Once again you post stupidity but are so stupid, you don't know it. Of course bad cops exist, just like idiots (you) exist.

Is pushing division and hatred between races over a minor problem, more important than stopping a much larger problem?

Don't answer please...being an idiot, I know you don't know the answer.

35,000 Americans die of gunshot wounds every single year. Every other civilized country in the world has a lower rate of gun crime and death by guns but Americans cling to their handguns like drowning men to a life raft.

If you think guns are keeping you safe from tyranny, you're sadly mistaken. The government has so much firepower they could blow any armed militia to kingdom come in a heartbeat, should they do choose.

35,000 people a year die from guns. Another 45,000 died from lack of access to healthcare before the ACA. They are preventable deaths but right wingers won't even consider alternatives.

There really is no cure for stupid.

If you really think the government doesn't consider the fact that Americans are armed, you clearly are clueless.

Throughout all human history what do tyrannical regimes have in common? Answer..,they disarm their citizens. Learn from history and stop being a dupe for the ruling class.

Are you saying that the United States would cease to be a democracy is the citizens were to give up their arsenals?

Little minded fool, you don't understand the constitution do you? LOL

The survivors of the Nevada massacre understand the Constitution.

Pro gun anti stupid. what's wrong with gun locks, gun safes & gun education.

Tell that to the Las Vegas victims and families of the Las Vegas murdered.

 

[Eloy]

And why do you think guns cause murder?

CA has the most strict gun laws in the country. UT has the most lax gun laws in the country. The murder rate in CA is 4 times higher than that of UT.

The UK passed several rounds of very strict gun laws starting in the 1960's including bans and confiscations but their murder rate today is higher than it was before all those laws were passed.

While our murder rate even with the peak in the 90's has dropped to the same rate as it was in 1950.

So looking at this and assuming that guns cause murder and strict gun laws lower the murder rate I can only surmise that any position based on these assumptions is pure bullshit.

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone. ...

The Las Vegas killer was empowered, was able to kill American citizens, and I am sure he had plenty of self confidence.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone. ...

The Las Vegas killer was empowered, was able to kill American citizens, and I am sure he had plenty of self confidence.

Actually I bet he didn't