Beyond belief...........

[frigidweirdo]

I didn't say guns caused murders.

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

Ranking State Gun Laws – GunPolicy.org

10 States with the Weakest Gun Laws:
1. South Dakota
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. Vermont
5. Louisiana
6. Montana
7. Wyoming
8. Kentucky
9. Kansas
10. Oklahoma

Within this list you have some states with high murder rates, Louisiana is number 1, Mississippi is number 2.


On the other hand you have states which have not much in the way of urban areas.

South Dakota has a city of 153,000, Wyoming 59,000.

So there's a lot to be said for the state of US cities. A gun doesn't automatically cause a murder. The issue seems to be you create an environment that has a lot of people born into poverty and hopelessness, then you'll end up having guns being used in murders.

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 19.9%, Mississippi has a poverty rate of 21.9%.

South Dakota is 14.1% and often the poverty situation will be different.

List of U.S. states by Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

Louisiana is 47th on the Gini coefficient for income inequality.

Utah is number 1, meaning it has the least income inequality.

List of lowest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia

Louisiana has five of the lowest income places in the lowest 20 in the US.

South Dakota has zero in the bottom 96.

Poverty plays a part in all of this, urban areas play a part in this. You put people in certain situations and give them guns, things are going to get pretty shitty.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, they might not. Or they might go crazy and then shoot a whole load of people.

Kids who can swim on the other hand......

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone. ...

The Las Vegas killer was empowered, was able to kill American citizens, and I am sure he had plenty of self confidence.

Actually I bet he didn't

But then he didn't need lots of actual self confidence, he had his gun, which played the part of self confidence.

How much self confidence do you need to walk into a crowd of people with a knife and start hacking away at them? Fucking loads. To use a gun, much, MUCH less.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Still the person not the object isn't it?

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yep.

Would you say an individual with a gun is more or less likely to kill someone than a person with a teddy bear?

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

Like I said, the facts are there, you're ignoring them.

Your argument is prison, nothing else. Louisiana does prison and nothing else. Does Louisiana's system work?

 

[Skull Pilot]

No you just imply it in your arguments

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

Ranking State Gun Laws – GunPolicy.org

10 States with the Weakest Gun Laws:
1. South Dakota
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. Vermont
5. Louisiana
6. Montana
7. Wyoming
8. Kentucky
9. Kansas
10. Oklahoma

Within this list you have some states with high murder rates, Louisiana is number 1, Mississippi is number 2.


On the other hand you have states which have not much in the way of urban areas.

South Dakota has a city of 153,000, Wyoming 59,000.

So there's a lot to be said for the state of US cities. A gun doesn't automatically cause a murder. The issue seems to be you create an environment that has a lot of people born into poverty and hopelessness, then you'll end up having guns being used in murders.

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 19.9%, Mississippi has a poverty rate of 21.9%.

South Dakota is 14.1% and often the poverty situation will be different.

List of U.S. states by Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

Louisiana is 47th on the Gini coefficient for income inequality.

Utah is number 1, meaning it has the least income inequality.

List of lowest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia

Louisiana has five of the lowest income places in the lowest 20 in the US.

South Dakota has zero in the bottom 96.

Poverty plays a part in all of this, urban areas play a part in this. You put people in certain situations and give them guns, things are going to get pretty shitty.

10 states with the most lenient gun laws | Deseret News

As I said UT has the laxest gun laws CA has the strictest gun laws the murder rate in CA is 4 times that of UT.

It is a handful of urban shit holes that skew the country's murder rate.

Many states have far more guns and far more lenient gun laws yet the murder rates are comparable to those European countries you love so much

 

[Skull Pilot]

Every person is capable of murder whether or not they have a gun.

I have owned guns for more than 30 years and have never murdered anyone? I am not likely to commit murder n my lifetime and neither are the vast overwhelming majority of legal gun owners.

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

Like I said, the facts are there, you're ignoring them.

Your argument is prison, nothing else. Louisiana does prison and nothing else. Does Louisiana's system work?

What are the average sentences for violent criminals and what is the average time served?

 

[Conservative65]

I told my husband that he wasn't allowed to have a gun unless it was in a safe; so he had a 45 in a safe in the bedroom for 17 years... Three boys were raised here, four if you count the one we had for the summers - the kids never even knew we had it.

There are some good examples of best practice on this thread. But as responsible as you are yourself you have no protection against the idiot across the way who does not take any precautions.

There is risk with freedom. I have no problem with law abiding people owning firearms it's a calculated risk I am glad to take.

When something like this happens, those that hate freedom want to blame the item and not the lack of parental guidance needed if you choose to own guns.

Nope.

Why can't you nutters get it through your heads that guns do not kill people. People kill people.

But, fact is, people are stupid. They are SO stupid that little toddlers are more likely to shoot someone than a foreign terrorist is.

What do the gun nuts want to DO about that? Nothing.

What should be done about it?

Make the cars and swimming pools safer for children.

Oops, I mean guns.

GET IT??

People were forced to fence in pools and manufacturers were forced to put seat belts into cars. Why can't similar be done to guns?

And people still die where pools are fenced in and when wearing seat belts.

What do you propose be done to make guns safer? Are you saying doing things with guns will automatically make those stupid people smart?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, now I imply it.

Could I also have implied that the moon is made of cheese when I didn't say the moon is made of cheese?

Fucking hell.

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

Ranking State Gun Laws – GunPolicy.org

10 States with the Weakest Gun Laws:
1. South Dakota
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. Vermont
5. Louisiana
6. Montana
7. Wyoming
8. Kentucky
9. Kansas
10. Oklahoma

Within this list you have some states with high murder rates, Louisiana is number 1, Mississippi is number 2.


On the other hand you have states which have not much in the way of urban areas.

South Dakota has a city of 153,000, Wyoming 59,000.

So there's a lot to be said for the state of US cities. A gun doesn't automatically cause a murder. The issue seems to be you create an environment that has a lot of people born into poverty and hopelessness, then you'll end up having guns being used in murders.

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 19.9%, Mississippi has a poverty rate of 21.9%.

South Dakota is 14.1% and often the poverty situation will be different.

List of U.S. states by Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

Louisiana is 47th on the Gini coefficient for income inequality.

Utah is number 1, meaning it has the least income inequality.

List of lowest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia

Louisiana has five of the lowest income places in the lowest 20 in the US.

South Dakota has zero in the bottom 96.

Poverty plays a part in all of this, urban areas play a part in this. You put people in certain situations and give them guns, things are going to get pretty shitty.

10 states with the most lenient gun laws | Deseret News

As I said UT has the laxest gun laws CA has the strictest gun laws the murder rate in CA is 4 times that of UT.

It is a handful of urban shit holes that skew the country's murder rate.

Many states have far more guns and far more lenient gun laws yet the murder rates are comparable to those European countries you love so much

Yes, I got your cherry picking. So what? You present cherry picked statistics and I'm supposed to just accept this?

So, it's a "handful", depends how many you can get in your hands, of urban areas, and you think this is an acceptable excuse for doing nothing about the millions and millions of people who live in these urban areas?

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, but then this isn't the point, is it?

The point is that it happens, that it happens in the US 4 or 5 times more than it happens in lots of other first world countries.

If banning guns isn't the answer, then what is? Whatever it is, people on the right have no interest in solving it.

Yes when it comes to Muslims killing a few people, they seem to suddenly come up with lots of ideas. Funny that.

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

Like I said, the facts are there, you're ignoring them.

Your argument is prison, nothing else. Louisiana does prison and nothing else. Does Louisiana's system work?

What are the average sentences for violent criminals and what is the average time served?

Why don't you go find out?

 

[Skull Pilot]

More guns equal more kids dying from accidental gunshots. Which at its core is true but you still think it's the gun that causes the accident not the parent of the kid

More guns equals higher murder rates

You deny these are both the core of your argument here?

How about people are stupid and shouldn't have access to guns ?

It's the same argument every control freak makes.

If we don't let people have guns then the crime and murder rates will necessarily decrease.

as I stated before that argument is pure bullshit

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

Ranking State Gun Laws – GunPolicy.org

10 States with the Weakest Gun Laws:
1. South Dakota
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. Vermont
5. Louisiana
6. Montana
7. Wyoming
8. Kentucky
9. Kansas
10. Oklahoma

Within this list you have some states with high murder rates, Louisiana is number 1, Mississippi is number 2.


On the other hand you have states which have not much in the way of urban areas.

South Dakota has a city of 153,000, Wyoming 59,000.

So there's a lot to be said for the state of US cities. A gun doesn't automatically cause a murder. The issue seems to be you create an environment that has a lot of people born into poverty and hopelessness, then you'll end up having guns being used in murders.

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 19.9%, Mississippi has a poverty rate of 21.9%.

South Dakota is 14.1% and often the poverty situation will be different.

List of U.S. states by Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

Louisiana is 47th on the Gini coefficient for income inequality.

Utah is number 1, meaning it has the least income inequality.

List of lowest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia

Louisiana has five of the lowest income places in the lowest 20 in the US.

South Dakota has zero in the bottom 96.

Poverty plays a part in all of this, urban areas play a part in this. You put people in certain situations and give them guns, things are going to get pretty shitty.

10 states with the most lenient gun laws | Deseret News

As I said UT has the laxest gun laws CA has the strictest gun laws the murder rate in CA is 4 times that of UT.

It is a handful of urban shit holes that skew the country's murder rate.

Many states have far more guns and far more lenient gun laws yet the murder rates are comparable to those European countries you love so much

Yes, I got your cherry picking. So what? You present cherry picked statistics and I'm supposed to just accept this?

So, it's a "handful", depends how many you can get in your hands, of urban areas, and you think this is an acceptable excuse for doing nothing about the millions and millions of people who live in these urban areas?

We can do something but we don't. And not even we it's the powers that be in those cities and those states that do nothing to keep violent pieces of shit off the streets.

I delve into the stats I don't just apply one stat to a country and population as large as ours.

The murder rate where I live is lower than that of the UK, or Illinois or Chicago or California or Michigan and there are guns everywhere around here.

So tell me how more gun control directed at people like me will stop the problems in those shit hole urban areas.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Everyone with any common sense knows the answer.
You impose severe mandatory sentencing for ALL crimes involving guns.

Leave your gun unsecured and a kid gets killed you do 20 years for manslaughter no parole
Commit any crime while in possession of a gun even if the gun wasn't fired you get 25 years no parole
You kill with a gun other than in self defense life in prison no parole.

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

Like I said, the facts are there, you're ignoring them.

Your argument is prison, nothing else. Louisiana does prison and nothing else. Does Louisiana's system work?

What are the average sentences for violent criminals and what is the average time served?

Why don't you go find out?

I don't need to because I know the average time served for violent offenders is less than 5 years
I know that a gun charge is usually pleaded down and is usually secondary to the crime committed.

You want gun control but you refuse to consider violent criminal control

 

[Dragonlady]

As hom shit instead of actually addressing the issue.

Coward.

There seems to be some truth in the thinking that we humans naturally go from liberty to tyranny and back again over time. Round and round we go...never learning from history. The elites know this and gladly use it to their advantage.

The mistake is in thinking most people are capable of telling the difference. Or caring.

'If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism'

Fascism is already in America. It came as "freedom of speech", it came as Donald J. Trump. And the dimwits embraced him.

Yes.....Freedom of Speech is fascism....Peace is War, War is Peace.....you have been an excellent student of Big Brother....

I didn't say the freedom of speech is fascism. I said that fascism came disguised as freedom of speech. There's a big difference asshole.

The fascists bill their marches as "Freedom of Speech" rallies. Pay attention to what's going on in your own country and stop pretending that liberals are the problem.

Right wing extremism has been a huge problem in the US for years. But you pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[Conservative65]

Fine, too many irresponsible people. Can you ban irresponsible people?

More people die from heart attacks, maybe we should ban hearts, hey? Great argument there.....

You can't seem to understand that everything you people blame on some inanimate object is caused by PEOPLE not the object.

Saying a gun causes an accident or a crime or a murder is just plain stupid.

In the big picture accidental deaths from guns is one of the least common fatal accidents but because there is a gun involved somehow this least common accidental cause of deaths overshadows everything.

Let's try this.

1) A small child with a gun, compared to a small child without a gun. Which is more likely to end up with someone being killed?

2) A lot of people out there are fucking stupid. You can't change this.

No, you can't change the fact that out of 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense, a handful are going to to stupid things......with 16.3 million people carrying guns there were 48 children accidentally killed with guns.....

16.3 million vs. 48

Car deaths.....with children...yet you are fixated on the one thing that is used to kill the smallest number of children.

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Death by car and gun by age, 2015...

<1.... Car 64, .....Gun 1

1-4.... Car 332, ...Gun 25

5-9.... Car 351, .....Gun 7

10-14.... Car 412, .....Gun 15

15-19.... Car 2,535, .....Gun 52

Total Car.... 3,694

Total Gun.... 100

As usual, you say that ot enough kids are shot every year for you consider a fence around the pool or seat belts.

You could save yourself having to copy/paste the same shit every day. All you'd have to do is post how many hundreds of dead children YOU would consider to be too many

SSDD

Same
Spam/Scam
Different
Day

It is odd, moron....that 48 children died from gun accidents in 2015...and you want to ban guns.

While 636 died from drowning....and assholes like you aren't pushing to ban pools....



WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports


2015:
Drowning:
<1..........30
1-4.........390
5-9.........129
10-14.....87

Total drowning: 636

But they'll proclaim efforts have made to make pools safer.

 

[Conservative65]

If only our educational system taught the meaning of the 2A, along with the entire Bill of Rights, we wouldn't have so many ignorant citizens. I suppose ignorant citizens are more likely to give up their liberty and allow a small elite group of criminals control of the nation. Big unlimited government survives when the people are dumb.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

As hom shit instead of actually addressing the issue.

Coward.

There seems to be some truth in the thinking that we humans naturally go from liberty to tyranny and back again over time. Round and round we go...never learning from history. The elites know this and gladly use it to their advantage.

The mistake is in thinking most people are capable of telling the difference. Or caring.

'If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism'

Fascism is already in America. It came as "freedom of speech", it came as Donald J. Trump. And the dimwits embraced him.

Fascism came in 2008 when you idiots voted for someone due to skin color and he mandated you buy a product whether you wanted to or not.

 

[Conservative65]

There seems to be some truth in the thinking that we humans naturally go from liberty to tyranny and back again over time. Round and round we go...never learning from history. The elites know this and gladly use it to their advantage.

The mistake is in thinking most people are capable of telling the difference. Or caring.

'If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism'

Fascism is already in America. It came as "freedom of speech", it came as Donald J. Trump. And the dimwits embraced him.

Yes.....Freedom of Speech is fascism....Peace is War, War is Peace.....you have been an excellent student of Big Brother....

I didn't say the freedom of speech is fascism. I said that fascism came disguised as freedom of speech. There's a big difference asshole.

The fascists bill their marches as "Freedom of Speech" rallies. Pay attention to what's going on in your own country and stop pretending that liberals are the problem.

Right wing extremism has been a huge problem in the US for years. But you pretend it doesn't exist.

Shouldn't you get back in the kiss Obama's black ass line? You're going to lose your place retard.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, you're telling me what I think?

Now, that's silly, isn't it?

What I do actually think, is that guns empower people. A person with a gun is far more able to kill someone than a person without a gun. It also increases a person's self confidence which makes them more likely to use a gun than another weapon to kill someone.

More guns don't necessarily equal more murders. It depends on a lot of other factors.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The USA as a first world country (a factor which plays a large part in the murder rate) has 112.6 guns per 100 residents. It also has a murder rate of 4.88

Serbia is second on the list. 58.2 guns per 100 people but a murder rate of 1.13.

Guns in Serbia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

This site says 37.82, but either way there are a lot of guns. The number of households estimated to have a gun is about 11%. The number of registered guns is 1 million, compared to 3 million estimated to be in the country.

Serbia's homicide rate here is 1.2 in 2012, gun homicide is 0.72, or about 3/5ths their total murder rate.

You see there are many different factors to take into account even when talking about guns.

Let's look at percentage of murders with guns.

USA = 4.96 homicide, 3.43 gun homicide - 69%
Serbia = 60%
Yemen = 84%
Cyprus = 29%

UK 3.8%
Netherlands 33%

So, there are different variations which will depend on many different facts, like how guns are in society. However in general the less guns, the lower the murder rate with guns is, kind of obvious. But the question is, are there more murders because there are more guns? Chances are yes. Though, again, there are other factors.

Our murder rate is skewed by a handful of high crime urban shit holes.

UT, the state with the most lax gun laws has a murder rate 4 times less than CA the state with the strictest gun laws.

In the UK the murder rate is higher than it was before all the gun laws. bans and confiscations.

In Chicago who is doing the killing with guns? Gang bangers who cannot legally buy a firearm that's who.

The FACT is that guns in the hands of average law abiding citizens do not increase crime or murder rates.

Ranking State Gun Laws – GunPolicy.org

10 States with the Weakest Gun Laws:
1. South Dakota
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. Vermont
5. Louisiana
6. Montana
7. Wyoming
8. Kentucky
9. Kansas
10. Oklahoma

Within this list you have some states with high murder rates, Louisiana is number 1, Mississippi is number 2.


On the other hand you have states which have not much in the way of urban areas.

South Dakota has a city of 153,000, Wyoming 59,000.

So there's a lot to be said for the state of US cities. A gun doesn't automatically cause a murder. The issue seems to be you create an environment that has a lot of people born into poverty and hopelessness, then you'll end up having guns being used in murders.

Louisiana has a poverty rate of 19.9%, Mississippi has a poverty rate of 21.9%.

South Dakota is 14.1% and often the poverty situation will be different.

List of U.S. states by Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

Louisiana is 47th on the Gini coefficient for income inequality.

Utah is number 1, meaning it has the least income inequality.

List of lowest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia

Louisiana has five of the lowest income places in the lowest 20 in the US.

South Dakota has zero in the bottom 96.

Poverty plays a part in all of this, urban areas play a part in this. You put people in certain situations and give them guns, things are going to get pretty shitty.

10 states with the most lenient gun laws | Deseret News

As I said UT has the laxest gun laws CA has the strictest gun laws the murder rate in CA is 4 times that of UT.

It is a handful of urban shit holes that skew the country's murder rate.

Many states have far more guns and far more lenient gun laws yet the murder rates are comparable to those European countries you love so much

Yes, I got your cherry picking. So what? You present cherry picked statistics and I'm supposed to just accept this?

So, it's a "handful", depends how many you can get in your hands, of urban areas, and you think this is an acceptable excuse for doing nothing about the millions and millions of people who live in these urban areas?

We can do something but we don't. And not even we it's the powers that be in those cities and those states that do nothing to keep violent pieces of shit off the streets.

I delve into the stats I don't just apply one stat to a country and population as large as ours.

The murder rate where I live is lower than that of the UK, or Illinois or Chicago or California or Michigan and there are guns everywhere around here.

So tell me how more gun control directed at people like me will stop the problems in those shit hole urban areas.

So, you live somewhere that has a murder rate lower than the UK. Does it have a murder rate lower than an equivalent area of the UK? Because comparing a rural part of America with the UK is nonsense. The UK has a city of 8 million people. Compare London's murder rate with any of the larger cities in the US and you'll see a different, a big difference. You'll see a national govt that gives a shit about the people in the poorer areas of London, or anywhere else, who make education work.

In the US you don't.

That's the difference.

How would a gun ban stop these problems? Well, it might have stopped Las Vegas happening.

The fact that you don't give a shit about the rest of America is rather telling.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Haven't we done this before?

Louisiana has the HIGHEST prison population IN THE FUCKING WORLD and it has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.

Clearly doesn't work, does it?

Of course prison works.

The trick is you don't let violent criminals out on parole
We need to stop incarcerating nonviolent offenders and use prisons for long term incarceration of violent pieces of shit

Like I said, the facts are there, you're ignoring them.

Your argument is prison, nothing else. Louisiana does prison and nothing else. Does Louisiana's system work?

What are the average sentences for violent criminals and what is the average time served?

Why don't you go find out?

I don't need to because I know the average time served for violent offenders is less than 5 years
I know that a gun charge is usually pleaded down and is usually secondary to the crime committed.

You want gun control but you refuse to consider violent criminal control

Yes, I see a lot of people who "know" stuff. Do you think I take such people seriously?

 

[RealDave]

The mistake is in thinking most people are capable of telling the difference. Or caring.

'If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism'

Fascism is already in America. It came as "freedom of speech", it came as Donald J. Trump. And the dimwits embraced him.

Yes.....Freedom of Speech is fascism....Peace is War, War is Peace.....you have been an excellent student of Big Brother....

I didn't say the freedom of speech is fascism. I said that fascism came disguised as freedom of speech. There's a big difference asshole.

The fascists bill their marches as "Freedom of Speech" rallies. Pay attention to what's going on in your own country and stop pretending that liberals are the problem.

Right wing extremism has been a huge problem in the US for years. But you pretend it doesn't exist.

Shouldn't you get back in the kiss Obama's black ass line? You're going to lose your place retard.

Racist fuck. Caught you again.

 

[Conservative65]

'If Fascism Ever Comes to America, It Will Come in the Name of Liberalism'

Fascism is already in America. It came as "freedom of speech", it came as Donald J. Trump. And the dimwits embraced him.

Yes.....Freedom of Speech is fascism....Peace is War, War is Peace.....you have been an excellent student of Big Brother....

I didn't say the freedom of speech is fascism. I said that fascism came disguised as freedom of speech. There's a big difference asshole.

The fascists bill their marches as "Freedom of Speech" rallies. Pay attention to what's going on in your own country and stop pretending that liberals are the problem.

Right wing extremism has been a huge problem in the US for years. But you pretend it doesn't exist.

Shouldn't you get back in the kiss Obama's black ass line? You're going to lose your place retard.

Racist fuck. Caught you again.

More like I caught you losing your place in line, too. I'm just trying to help you out.