CDZ At what point do you stop giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by usmbguest5318, Dec 10, 2017.

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At what point do you stop giving someone the benefit of the doubt re: a given matter?

This poll will close on Aug 9, 2071 at 4:24 PM.
  1. Upon finding that every factual, abstract and contextual element causing doubt has been eradicated

  2. Upon finding evidence the person has paltered in some material way about the matter in question

  3. Upon finding evidence the person has paltered in a minor way about the matter in questions

  4. Upon finding evidence the person has been materially wrong re: "facts" they cite

  5. Upon finding evidence the person has been materially wrong re: the context of something they cite

  6. Upon learning the person is often disingenuous, dissembling, paltering and/or prevaricating

  7. I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt

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  1. Circe
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    Circe Silver Member

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    Snark: not useful. And certainly not polite. I'd watch that stuff if I were you.

    The "truth" is, if there is such a thing as truth, which I gravely doubt, that your phrase "benefit of the doubt" definitely needed definition for the context. It still does. You should be able to define your own terms when asked! You know that.



    About palter and nexus: I have a rule of thumb about excessively abstruse vocabulary which has stood me in good stead. If by now I don't know that word (and I was an editor for years) ---- then the writer is posturing. And probably studied "Word of the Day" regularly for a long time. As an editor, I would say Keep It Simple. I do not add the usual clichéd ending because it doesn't apply to you.
     
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  2. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    OT:
    There was no snark, as it were. I merely explicated the nature of my writing approach regarding the use of idioms.

    There is no point to my defining idioms I've not used euphemistically and that already have accepted definitions that precisely align with the meaning I intend.

    Have you considered that if having been an editor you don't by now know a word I write here that that says more about you than it does about the writer?

    The extent to which one's writing simple is a function of the reasonably expected reading skills of one's target audience, and we both know that the writer (publisher) defines what his/her target audience is. While some may think my posts here are written for every member's consumption, the fact is a fair share of them are not at all thus targeted. Often enough, my posts are written for very well informed readers who exercise political dispassion, erudition, and substantive due diligence in considering matters they willingly discuss in public.

    For instance, one'll note that I somewhat frequently cite scholarly papers and texts. If one is either unwilling or uncomfortable reading such documents, one may not be part of my target audience for the post containing those references.

    Thank you.​
     
  3. Circe
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    Circe Silver Member

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    No; there are lots and lots of words. That's why we have an Oxford English Dictionary: to look things up from old books, not because we want to inflict weird and arcane words on our reading audience. I sort of know what nexus is and would pass it by in a novel without stopping, or not for long, but palter is beyond the Pale, to use a cliché.

    I was quite a good editor, back in the Day, and here's the thing: language is to communicate, not to confuse or pose. You are never going to sound uneducated -- you don't have to worry about that! But if you stop people cold in sentence after sentence, that's not good communication. So I'd say throw away all those books on Latin You Can Use to Amaze Your Friends and Vocabulary Only You Understand to Amaze Your Friends and just say it, simply. You could view it as having pity on the rest of us? :smile:

    I wish you'd start another thread. I like to talk like this, but I don't know what this thread is about.​
     
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  4. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    Thank you.

    The thread topic is precisely as indicated by the title question and OP.
     
  5. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    You seem to have a particular disdain for the word "palter." I don't know why. It's a word that carries a connotation, thus implication, very different from other words like it; there is a material degree of willfulness associated with paltering. Conveying the notion of that willfulness along with the misrepresentation of truth is why I use it; it's one word that "kills two birds with one stone." As such it is vastly more succinct than are other approaches to conveying those two ideas.

    Having been an editor, surely you are aware of the needs to do that when space is limited, as it is for poll choices. (AFAIK, USMB allows 100 characters for poll choices and titles.) Another word I often use for economy's sake is "procrustean," primarily in it's non-capitalized form. It, like "palter," is just another of the words I learned in high school; thus I use it. I'm certainly not going to here suddenly renounce it and other words I've used for most of my life.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  6. Circe
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    Circe Silver Member

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    Enjoy! The dictionary is free to all to graze on.

    (Scrambles to look up "procrustean.")
     
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  7. JoeMoma
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    JoeMoma Gold Member

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    I tend to be anticrustean.
     
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  8. Circe
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    Circe Silver Member

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    I'm just crusty, at this point.
     
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  9. JoeMoma
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    JoeMoma Gold Member

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    Sometimes I like to be spontaneous and somewhat random rather than trying to fit things to an arbitrary standard. My life has a high level of entropy.
     
  10. Leo123
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    Leo123 Silver Member

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    The very first time I see them spouting the MSM media memes.
     

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