Assault on Waco

[Oddball]

You spit shine them jackboots yourself, or do you have them sent out?

 

[Si modo]

I fought the law......and the law won

I fought the law...and the law won

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

You really should read the Danforth Report. The FBI and ATF fucked up and tried very hard to cover up their fuck ups. Even an FBI agent was indicted for manslaughter.

Cops and federal agents are far from perfect, and when they fuck up, their natural reaction is to lie, obstruct investigations, and cover up.

Such honor.

Oh, and Koresh was a whackadoodle, but there really is no death penalty for being whacked in the head.

 

[jillian]

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

You really should read the Danforth Report. The FBI and ATF fucked up and tried very hard to cover up their fuck ups. Even an FBI agent was indicted for manslaughter.

Cops and federal agents are far from perfect, and when they fuck up, their natural reaction is to lie, obstruct investigations, and cover up.

Such honor.

Oh, and Koresh was a whackadoodle, but there really is no death penalty for being whacked in the head.

that's still your story, huh?

the danforth report WHICH IS LINKED EARLIER IN THIS THREAD blamed NO ONE BUT DAVID KORESH for what happened at Waco.

but keep repeating the same falsehood over and over and over....

 

[Sallow]

You spit shine them jackboots yourself, or do you have them sent out?

How's life in Somalia these days? That V8 Interceptor still keeping ahead of the land pirates?

 

[Sallow]

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

You really should read the Danforth Report. The FBI and ATF fucked up and tried very hard to cover up their fuck ups. Even an FBI agent was indicted for manslaughter.

Cops and federal agents are far from perfect, and when they fuck up, their natural reaction is to lie, obstruct investigations, and cover up.

Such honor.

Oh, and Koresh was a whackadoodle, but there really is no death penalty for being whacked in the head.

Their fuck up was not bashing the door down right after those agents were killed and offing every terrorist holding a gun.

Letting Koresh warble for over a month was idiotic and a disgrace.

 

[jillian]

Hi Jillian, I suggest you watch the Academy Award winning documentary called "Waco, The Rules of Engagement." It will make you question everything the government has put out on the attack which was at best a screwup and at worst a criminal endeavor.

i may have seen it. i don't remember. but really, to me, what's important is that he was told ot come out. he didn't. all those people died because of him.

If we treated an Al-Queda stronghold the way we treated Americans at Waco everyone responsible would be in prison. I watched the hearings with big dumb Janet Reno on the stand and when she started comparing military tanks to a used car she was cut off in mid sentence by Chuck Schumer and the subject was changed. The search warrant was faulty, it's against the law to use the military against American citizens and what did you think would happen when you pumped a chemical with the volatility of lacquer thinner into a wood structure?

if there was an al queda stronghold and they were told to exit a building, and instead caused a debacle the way koresh did, you'd be saying they got what was coming to them.... as would I.

 

[westwall]

I fought the law......and the law won

I fought the law...and the law won

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

They were dummy grenade bodies that can be purchased at any surplus store in the US (except for good 'ol CA), they would mount them on plaques with a number and a "Complaint Dept Take a Number".

In other words they were purely a novelty and completely legal. As was everything they did. In fact, Koresh was wanted on a attempted murder charge and the Sheriff drove out and peacefully picked him up some years before.

The initial assault was completely unneccessary and done purely for show (the media had been told to be at the location before the attack began) and led to the terrible deaths of four agents.

All for nothing but a press release to justify the ATF budget requests.

 

[westwall]

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

You really should read the Danforth Report. The FBI and ATF fucked up and tried very hard to cover up their fuck ups. Even an FBI agent was indicted for manslaughter.

Cops and federal agents are far from perfect, and when they fuck up, their natural reaction is to lie, obstruct investigations, and cover up.

Such honor.

Oh, and Koresh was a whackadoodle, but there really is no death penalty for being whacked in the head.

Their fuck up was not bashing the door down right after those agents were killed and offing every terrorist holding a gun.

Letting Koresh warble for over a month was idiotic and a disgrace.

There is substantive evidence that the ATF fired the first shots. Before they had identified themselves. That's one of the reasons the front door disappeared, too much verifiable evidence so it had to go.

 

[whitehall]

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

They were dummy grenade bodies that can be purchased at any surplus store in the US (except for good 'ol CA), they would mount them on plaques with a number and a "Complaint Dept Take a Number".

In other words they were purely a novelty and completely legal. As was everything they did. In fact, Koresh was wanted on a attempted murder charge and the Sheriff drove out and peacefully picked him up some years before.

The initial assault was completely unneccessary and done purely for show (the media had been told to be at the location before the attack began) and led to the terrible deaths of four agents.

All for nothing but a press release to justify the ATF budget requests.

"Grenade casings"? You mean those old inert WW2 pineapple grenades that you can buy in any surplus store?

 

[whitehall]

I fought the law......and the law won

I fought the law...and the law won

Who knew you are in favor of police states?

Neither the ATF nor the FBI had a lawful warrant to serve on them. So, those in Waco were not fighting the "law", as there was nothing lawful that they were doing.

Sure they did.

Christian Terrorist Pedophile David Koresh was illegally involved in the sale of grenade casings.

ATF agents had a legal warrant to search the compound.

The terrorists in the compound open fire on federal agents.

What happened after that is completely the fault of the terrorists.

I don't believe the ATF ever used the words "Christian terrorist pedophile" on the search warrant. Those words were made up by radical hate filled lefties to justify the incineration of 80 men women and children. It's interesting that the left defends organizations like NAMBLA and promotes "tolerance" for jihad radicals but hates Christians enough to kill them.

 

[whitehall]

Conclusion? Do the Clinton defenders concede that the Waco Invasion was a scary example of what is in store for Americans who dare to challenge the criminal behavior of federal law enforcement agencies?

 

[whitehall]

Scary scenario for Americans when they see the left wing's tolerance for abuse by the administration as long as the sleaze bag is a democrat.

 

[Againsheila]

I fought the law, and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

The fact is the raid never should have happened. Nothing illegal was going on at the Compound. The ATF secretly took away the FFL licenses of those at the Compound just before the raid and claimed that illegal gun buying had occurred. Not true, every purchase was legal and followed the law.

Embarrassed after 3 months of siege the FBI staged an illegal raid using the military. The FBI KNEW that the wooden structured were set to be burned if attacked, with gasoline placed all over the structures, yet they authorized the use of tanks to not only break through the walls but spew flammable chemicals and fire starting canisters into the mix.

The compound was no threat during the 3 month siege not one shot was fired from the compound and no one attempted to leave. The FBI murdered those children.

There is no evidence that in the initial raid the civilians even fired on the ATF. The first pictures later taken down and never seen again had an ATF agent spraying a window with automatic fire where 3 of his partners had just entered. The door to the compound recovered intact had no bullet holes originating from inside the compound and was conveniently lost when Congress ask to see it. None of the cars in the parking lot had bullet holes originating from the compound all holes were from outside where the ATF was.

I remember one witness saying that if as they tried to flee the burning building, they were being shot at by our military. Many of those people were killed as they were fleeing and they didn't have guns while they fled.

 

[Againsheila]

I fought the law, and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

The fact is the raid never should have happened. Nothing illegal was going on at the Compound. The ATF secretly took away the FFL licenses of those at the Compound just before the raid and claimed that illegal gun buying had occurred. Not true, every purchase was legal and followed the law.

Embarrassed after 3 months of siege the FBI staged an illegal raid using the military. The FBI KNEW that the wooden structured were set to be burned if attacked, with gasoline placed all over the structures, yet they authorized the use of tanks to not only break through the walls but spew flammable chemicals and fire starting canisters into the mix.

The compound was no threat during the 3 month siege not one shot was fired from the compound and no one attempted to leave. The FBI murdered those children.

There is no evidence that in the initial raid the civilians even fired on the ATF. The first pictures later taken down and never seen again had an ATF agent spraying a window with automatic fire where 3 of his partners had just entered. The door to the compound recovered intact had no bullet holes originating from inside the compound and was conveniently lost when Congress ask to see it. None of the cars in the parking lot had bullet holes originating from the compound all holes were from outside where the ATF was.

Shooting Federal Agents is frowned upon. Killing four of them can lead to some pissed off agents

I fought the law and the law won

So if 4 armed men tried to sneak into your second story window, you wouldn't start shooting?

 

[Againsheila]

Another issue is the way the Dividians were treated during the siege. The FBI never offered legal council or even authorized medical treatment to the people inside the "compound". The media made up stories about super weapons and child abuse in order to slant public opinion which would ordinarily tend to be sympathetic. The FBI even tried shoddy torture methods of blasting crazy music at night. If a similar condition happened in an Afghanistan village there would be widespread condemnation and hell to pay if Islamic fundamentalists were incinerated.

They killed four agents trying to lawfully serve a warrant

That kind of ruins your expectation of soft treatment

How do you lawfully serve a warrant through a second story window?

 

[Againsheila]

1992--Ruby Ridge Idaho. President George H.W. Bush unleashed federal marshall's against a perfectly innocent citizen named Randy Weaver who was merely exercising his Constitutional rights. The incident, which resulted in the deaths of 3 people and the wounding of 2 others, was to distract public attention from the finalizing of the North American Free Trade Agreement, which had been reached the week before.

See? Two can play this stupid game. :roll eyes:

Wanna play some more?

Which goes to show that our government hasn't been OUR government for some time, doesn't it? Why do you want to turn this into a dem vs rep thing? The fact is that both parties have sold out the American people.

 

[MikeK]

Another issue is the way the Dividians were treated during the siege. The FBI never offered legal council or even authorized medical treatment to the people inside the "compound". The media made up stories about super weapons and child abuse in order to slant public opinion which would ordinarily tend to be sympathetic. The FBI even tried shoddy torture methods of blasting crazy music at night. If a similar condition happened in an Afghanistan village there would be widespread condemnation and hell to pay if Islamic fundamentalists were incinerated.

They killed four agents trying to lawfully serve a warrant

That kind of ruins your expectation of soft treatment

RW,

Did you know most of the surviving Davidians were acquitted on all counts in a Texas state court because their actions were considered defensive, therefore lawful? 11 in Texas Sect Are Acquitted Of Key Charges - New York Times

One of the things revealed in that trial is the fact that no actual warrant was presented to Koresh at the outset and ATF could not ascertain which agent, if any, had the warrant. It is believed the reason for this is issuance of the warrant was based on both false and irrelevent information, such as charges of drug manufacturing and sexual abuse of children. Those allegations were investigated and found to be false well in advance of the warrant application. In Texas, such a defective warrant is invalid and its enforcement may be resisted. Also, the agents' use of force was illegal and the Davidians had a right under Texas law to defend themselves and their property.

If what you mean by "the law won" is the law got away with murder, then I suppose you're right. But the big loser in that event was the American People who were made to see what happens to law-abiding citizens who resist the oppressive actions of federal goons. They will murder you and your children and get away with it.

What I don't understand it why you seem so content with that.

 

[MikeK]

Scary scenario for Americans when they see the left wing's tolerance for abuse by the administration as long as the sleaze bag is a democrat.

I don't know about that. I was, and continue to be, totally disappointed by the general public's passive acceptance of what happened at Waco and their lack of critical reaction to the phony "hearing" that followed. And I believe the public inertia existed on both sides of the political aisle. It appears the public was all-too-willing to accept government's version and blame the Davidians for what happened.

If I'm mistaken, correct me.

 

[Oddball]

Scary scenario for Americans when they see the left wing's tolerance for abuse by the administration as long as the sleaze bag is a democrat.

I don't know about that. I was, and continue to be, totally disappointed by the general public's passive acceptance of what happened at Waco and their lack of critical reaction to the phony "hearing" that followed. And I believe the public inertia existed on both sides of the political aisle. It appears the public was all-too-willing to accept government's version and blame the Davidians for what happened.

If I'm mistaken, correct me.

You're not mistaken.

Blind squirrel, meet the acorn.

 

[Synthaholic]

Janet Reno was one of this country's best AG, ever.

In this country, when law enforcement tells you to come out with your hands up, you do it, and fight your battle in court.

Don't want to do that? Fuck you - you can die in a hail of bullets, or the fire you started.