Ask a Gay Guy - Objective Dialog

[bodecea]

The OP dictated the terms of the debate based on the premise the being a homo was rational and normal.

No, it is not normal.

Homosexuality is animalistic sub-human behavior.

That's why 99.99% of the cultures and societies throughout history have criminalized it as abnormal behavior, and in many cases, worthy of the death penalty.

Then...MOST....grew up.

 

[Papageorgio]

Harmless? I wouldn't claim that. It harms those involved and generations who will never be born because of such activity. And yes, having sex with a member of the opposite sex, undermines the argument that they have no control over what they do.

Let's for the sake of argument that it is natural. Christianity specifically teaches that human nature can be changed through the Atonement of Christ. We can be born again and through the grace of God, our sinful nature can be overcome and we can be reborn.

These are your opinions. And what the bible says has nothing to do with this thread, I just wanted people to use facts. Our country, our laws and our world is not dictated by the bible.

And having generations not being born is harming someone? First off, putting aside the fact that overpopulation is destroying our world, you must therefore see harm in contraception, masturbation, sterile people in relationships, childless couples etc...

And same sex relations has nothing to do with bad self control if it is their sexual orientation and there is no choice.

But once you put the bible in there, I realized there would be no evidence or facts coming from your end, only your personal assertions. You must also believe in slavery, legal punishment for masturbation, punishment (and execution) for socializing or leaving the home on a Sunday without the express interest in worship or punishment for wearing a shirt with more than one type of fiber? Please, try not skip over my last sentence and instead answer me if you support those things the bible declares.

Or don't respond at all. If you have no facts, no evidence, then don't tell me your bible is right and everyone else's is wrong. Thats another issue entirely.

Interesting, what facts do you have that homosexuality is normal?

Just not following your logic or why you believe that others opinions should be discounted.

 

[AquaAthena]

I really want to start a dialog between people who, for lack of a better word, do not support gay rights with people who do.

My goal is to eliminate all superstition, pre-conceived beliefs, personal idea of what "common sense" is or fears from the argument and just tackle the issue using logic and reasoning and evidence. Again, religion and personal beliefs (which are discussed everywhere else) are not the point of this thread. Evidence and facts are.

So, what evidence makes you come to the conclusion that being gay is wrong or unnatural? If you could ask a gay guy something, what would it be?

Anger, insults and religious dogma detract from the point of this thread. If you are angry and want to insult, please go to another thread where you are free to do so.

People cannot form a good/valid opinion until they look at evidence. If something is true, there will be evidence to indicate it is so. Using evidence is the hallmark of an intelligent person's perspective on an issue. Moving away from evidence indicates a lack of research, rigidity and is the highlight of a weak opinion.

A reasonable question/statement is one that uses evidence or research (eg. This study says this about homosexuality..., it is a fact pedophilia has gone up in this city as shown by this research..., etc...) or even just an observation (eg. Gay people cannot reproduce, so isn't it wrong?).

An unreasonable/illogical question is one that is insulting, deflective or a loaded question (eg. Do fags carry lube in their pockets all day?/Africa is a hellhole, so how can you say being gay is not bad?/ Do the perverted sexual deviants realize how they are destroying America's children?)

I want to hear from people who are genuinely interested in looking at the issue of homosexuality. If you know your opinion will never change because you "know" it is wrong, then this is not for you.

If no evidence is presented, I can conclude that no one that posted in this thread who opposes gay rights has any evidence to support their opinion.

There is nothing I am curious about, regarding homosexuality. I DO think it is unnatural, as in contrary to nature, but not immoral. It is just the way some people turn out to be. I hate to see you, or anyone else, refer to homosexuals as faggots. It is derogatory, and doesn't follow that you automatically, are. That would be determined by your behavior, outside of your sexual preference, in my opinion.

I am in agreement with this portion of mudwhistle's post, regarding your OP:

"There shouldn't be any discussion of Gay Rights.

Rather a discussion of human rights."

 

[eflatminor]

But really, does anyone who is against gay people being given the right to marry/adopt/not be discriminated against have any evidence to support their opinion?

You want to call yourself married, go ahead. Free speech. What this Libertarian stands against is government defining personal relationships for anyone, gay or straight. Further, government should give no "perks" for being married nor attempt to define the institution of marriage, which as been around a lot longer than our government. If this were the case, government would have no ability to grant or withdraw your right to call yourself married.

If a private adoption agency prefers to give their kids to people meeting certain criteria, that's their right. If you don't like it, start an adoption agency for gay couples only.

Regarding discrimination, you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for special class status, you'll not get my support. If you're looking for government to not treat you differently than anyone else, you've got my undying support. Equal justice, not social justice.

 

[Sunni Man]

The OP dictated the terms of the debate based on the premise the being a homo was rational and normal.

No, it is not normal.

Homosexuality is animalistic sub-human behavior.

That's why 99.99% of the cultures and societies throughout history have criminalized it as abnormal behavior, and in many cases, worthy of the death penalty.

Then...MOST....grew up.

So acceptance of fagots = being an adult??

 

[Papageorgio]

I don't think there the OP was wanting an honest dialog, I think he wanted everyone to just fold and accept.

His very guidelines for the so called honest dialog did not allow for anyone's opinions except his own.

I do have one question, and maybe I can get answer, many say they are born with a gay gene, I am not sure if it is true or not, but why do we not have the same tolerance for those born with a gene that causes alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, schizophrenia, pedophilia, and even serial killer?

Much to be understood about human and human behavior.

 

[BDBoop]

I am about to show you one of the most frightening sights on Earth. If you are opposed to same sex marriage, you may want to scroll past the picture below. It is an image of the very thing that scares you the most. But I believe we should confront our fears head-on.

This picture encapsulates everything behind the opposition to same sex marriage. The unfortunate homophobes have been unable to articulate exactly what it is that bothers them so much about same sex marriage.

I have finally found a picture that scares them more than God.

Ready?


Here it is:

The federal joint tax rate.

I guarantee you that several hearts skipped a beat when they saw that.

Homos are not supposed to be protected by the law which permits married people to file the form which gets them a discount on their taxes.

It's right there in Leviticus.

And Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, unless you are a homo. Then you must not get a discount from Caesar. He was dead serious about being the decider on taxes. This is why the image above makes homophobes lose their ever loving minds when it comes to equal protection of the tax laws for fags. God writes the earthly tax laws, not Man. Everybody knows that!

It also freaks them out the chart doesn't say "Married Couples With Kids Filing Jointly". That's what they see in their minds, so they have to stab their eyes when shown the real image to avoid seeing the reality.

Poor bastards.

Thanks, I needed to laugh hysterically. It's been a bit of a bitch, thus far today.

 

[Papageorgio]

I am about to show you one of the most frightening sights on Earth. If you are opposed to same sex marriage, you may want to scroll past the picture below. It is an image of the very thing that scares you the most. But I believe we should confront our fears head-on.

This picture encapsulates everything behind the opposition to same sex marriage. The unfortunate homophobes have been unable to articulate exactly what it is that bothers them so much about same sex marriage.

I have finally found a picture that scares them more than God.

Ready?


Here it is:

The federal joint tax rate.

I guarantee you that several hearts skipped a beat when they saw that.

Homos are not supposed to be protected by the law which permits married people to file the form which gets them a discount on their taxes.

It's right there in Leviticus.

And Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, unless you are a homo. Then you must not get a discount from Caesar. He was dead serious about being the decider on taxes. This is why the image above makes homophobes lose their ever loving minds when it comes to equal protection of the tax laws for fags. God writes the earthly tax laws, not Man. Everybody knows that!

It also freaks them out the chart doesn't say "Married Couples With Kids Filing Jointly". That's what they see in their minds, so they have to stab their eyes when shown the real image to avoid seeing the reality.

Poor bastards.

Thanks, I needed to laugh hysterically. It's been a bit of a bitch, thus far today.

Hope it gets better for you.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Live Free or Die

Give me Liberty or Give me Death

 

[bodecea]

But really, does anyone who is against gay people being given the right to marry/adopt/not be discriminated against have any evidence to support their opinion?

You want to call yourself married, go ahead. Free speech. What this Libertarian stands against is government defining personal relationships for anyone, gay or straight. Further, government should give no "perks" for being married nor attempt to define the institution of marriage, which as been around a lot longer than our government. If this were the case, government would have no ability to grant or withdraw your right to call yourself married.

If a private adoption agency prefers to give their kids to people meeting certain criteria, that's their right. If you don't like it, start an adoption agency for gay couples only.

Regarding discrimination, you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for special class status, you'll not get my support. If you're looking for government to not treat you differently than anyone else, you've got my undying support. Equal justice, not social justice.

What have YOU actively done to eliminate Government civil marriage?

 

[eflatminor]

But really, does anyone who is against gay people being given the right to marry/adopt/not be discriminated against have any evidence to support their opinion?

You want to call yourself married, go ahead. Free speech. What this Libertarian stands against is government defining personal relationships for anyone, gay or straight. Further, government should give no "perks" for being married nor attempt to define the institution of marriage, which as been around a lot longer than our government. If this were the case, government would have no ability to grant or withdraw your right to call yourself married.

If a private adoption agency prefers to give their kids to people meeting certain criteria, that's their right. If you don't like it, start an adoption agency for gay couples only.

Regarding discrimination, you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for special class status, you'll not get my support. If you're looking for government to not treat you differently than anyone else, you've got my undying support. Equal justice, not social justice.

What have YOU actively done to eliminate Government civil marriage?

Voted against the central planners who would give benefits some some people and/or businesses while penalizing others. At the same time, I've supporting those politicians and policies (financially and with my vote) that support equal justice for all.

You?

 

[Sunni Man]

Live Free or Die

Give me Liberty or Give me Death

Don't walk under a ladder.

Look both ways before crossing the street.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Live Free or Die

Give me Liberty or Give me Death

Don't walk under a ladder.

Look both ways before crossing the street.

Queers are just as free as me. This is just another bullshit diversion from consequencial issues by the left.

 

[Seawytch]

You want to call yourself married, go ahead. Free speech. What this Libertarian stands against is government defining personal relationships for anyone, gay or straight. Further, government should give no "perks" for being married nor attempt to define the institution of marriage, which as been around a lot longer than our government. If this were the case, government would have no ability to grant or withdraw your right to call yourself married.

If a private adoption agency prefers to give their kids to people meeting certain criteria, that's their right. If you don't like it, start an adoption agency for gay couples only.

Regarding discrimination, you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for special class status, you'll not get my support. If you're looking for government to not treat you differently than anyone else, you've got my undying support. Equal justice, not social justice.

What have YOU actively done to eliminate Government civil marriage?

Voted against the central planners who would give benefits some some people and/or businesses while penalizing others. At the same time, I've supporting those politicians and policies (financially and with my vote) that support equal justice for all.

You?

Are you legally married?

 

[eflatminor]

What have YOU actively done to eliminate Government civil marriage?

Voted against the central planners who would give benefits some some people and/or businesses while penalizing others. At the same time, I've supporting those politicians and policies (financially and with my vote) that support equal justice for all.

You?

Are you legally married?

No, never was, never will. I have no association with a church or synagogue and I stand against government involvement in personal relationships. For me to marry, as we define it today, would be highly hypocritical. I am not a hypocrite.

 

[bodecea]

You want to call yourself married, go ahead. Free speech. What this Libertarian stands against is government defining personal relationships for anyone, gay or straight. Further, government should give no "perks" for being married nor attempt to define the institution of marriage, which as been around a lot longer than our government. If this were the case, government would have no ability to grant or withdraw your right to call yourself married.

If a private adoption agency prefers to give their kids to people meeting certain criteria, that's their right. If you don't like it, start an adoption agency for gay couples only.

Regarding discrimination, you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for special class status, you'll not get my support. If you're looking for government to not treat you differently than anyone else, you've got my undying support. Equal justice, not social justice.

What have YOU actively done to eliminate Government civil marriage?

Voted against the central planners who would give benefits some some people and/or businesses while penalizing others. At the same time, I've supporting those politicians and policies (financially and with my vote) that support equal justice for all.

You?

I have no problem with the federal aspects as long as all law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are treated equally.

Interestingly enough, there was a Proposition Petition put out here in California about two years ago to eliminate all legal aspects pertaining to marriage. Need I say, it did not get many signatures....certainly not enough to get on the ballot.

 

[eflatminor]

I have no problem with the federal aspects as long as all law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are treated equally.

Impossible when it comes to marriage benefits. There are all kinds of people who cannot benefit from marriage perks provided by the federal government but may still choose to form a partnership with another person: Polygamists, Atheists, Libertarians, etc. Bottom line, government has no need to know your personal relationships with the possible exception of immigration and the military. Other than that, there should be no perks for married people, not even the right to ask who you choose to live your life with.

 

[bodecea]

I have no problem with the federal aspects as long as all law-abiding, tax-paying citizens are treated equally.

Impossible when it comes to marriage benefits. There are all kinds of people who cannot benefit from marriage perks provided by the federal government but may still choose to form a partnership with another person: Polygamists, Atheists, Libertarians, etc. Bottom line, government has no need to know your personal relationships with the possible exception of immigration and the military. Other than that, there should be no perks for married people, not even the right to ask who you choose to live your life with.

Then civil marriage needs to be eliminated across the board. But, to me, that sounds very "cut off nose to spite face"-ish.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Live Free or Die

Give me Liberty or Give me Death

Don't walk under a ladder.

Look both ways before crossing the street.

Queers are just as free as me. This is just another bullshit diversion from consequencial issues by the left.

Until 'queers' can claim a marital tax deduction, be next of kin at a hospital bed, enter a job interview without fear, and not be called 'queer' as a dimintive...i will continue to disagree.

 

[BDBoop]

Don't walk under a ladder.

Look both ways before crossing the street.

Queers are just as free as me. This is just another bullshit diversion from consequencial issues by the left.

Until 'queers' can claim a marital tax deduction, be next of kin at a hospital bed, enter a job interview without fear, and not be called 'queer' as a dimintive...i will continue to disagree.

Seconded.

Motion carried.