Are there any real feminists on USMB?

[JBeukema]

As some of you might already be aware, the subject of feminism came up in a recent thread- specifically the contrast between the 1st and 2nd-wavers who believed in equality, responsibility, and independence and the modern neo-feminists who, much like those same groups who took over the Coloured Civil Rights movement, seek to invert, rather than abolish, the historical system of exploitation and socio-economic and political inequality.

My question is this: are there any real feminists here? Si seems to get it, and Pixie sounds like the real deal. Anyone else? They seem to be a rare breed nowadays.

 

[Paulie]

You're pretty effeminate...

That's close enough.

 

[Lumpy 1]

You're pretty effeminate...

That's close enough.

 

[JBeukema]

You're brilliant, Paulie. I'm serious. Your rapier wit is simply astounding.

And I'm not being sarcastic....

 

[Paulie]

You're brilliant, Paulie. I'm serious. Your rapier wit is simply astounding.

And I'm not being sarcastic....

Thanks!

 

[Ravi]

As some of you might already be aware, the subject of feminism came up in a recent thread- specifically the contrast between the 1st and 2nd-wavers who believed in equality, responsibility, and independence and the modern neo-feminists who, much like those same groups who took over the Coloured Civil Rights movement, seek to invert, rather than abolish, the historical system of exploitation and socio-economic and political inequality.

My question is this: are there any real feminists here? Si seems to get it, and Pixie sounds like the real deal. Anyone else? They seem to be a rare breed nowadays.

Once again in english?

 

[chanel]

Yes.

 

[Si modo]

As some of you might already be aware, the subject of feminism came up in a recent thread- specifically the contrast between the 1st and 2nd-wavers who believed in equality, responsibility, and independence and the modern neo-feminists who, much like those same groups who took over the Coloured Civil Rights movement, seek to invert, rather than abolish, the historical system of exploitation and socio-economic and political inequality.

My question is this: are there any real feminists here? Si seems to get it, and Pixie sounds like the real deal. Anyone else? They seem to be a rare breed nowadays.

CG likely fits the bill most of the time. And Chanel.

Peggy Noonan seems to get it, too:

Things Are Tough All Over
By PEGGY NOONAN

The story as I was told it is that in the early years of her prime ministership, Margaret Thatcher held a meeting with her aides and staff, all of whom were dominated by her, even awed. When it was over she invited her cabinet chiefs to join her at dinner in a nearby restaurant. They went, arrayed themselves around the table, jockeyed for her attention. A young waiter came and asked if they'd like to hear the specials. Mrs. Thatcher said, "I will have beef."

Yes, said the waiter. "And the vegetables?"

"They will have beef too."

Too good to check, as they say. It is certainly apocryphal, but I don't want it to be. It captured her singular leadership style, which might be characterized as "unafraid."

She was a leader.
[Margaret Thatcher]

She never played the victim.

Margaret Thatcher would no more have identified herself as a woman, or claimed special pleading that she was a mere frail girl, or asked you to sympathize with her because of her sex, than she would have called up the Kremlin and asked how quickly she could surrender.

....

The point is the big ones, the real ones, the Thatchers and Indira Gandhis and Golda Meirs and Angela Merkels, never play the boo-hoo game. They are what they are, but they don't use what they are. They don't hold up their sex as a feint: Why, he's not criticizing me, he's criticizing all women! Let us rise and fight the sexist cur.

....​

Things Are Tough All Over - WSJ.com

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What is a real feminist?
Seriously.

I think everyone knows what a sudo feminist is - a group of primarily lesbian women who hate men who have certainly hijacked feminism.
But what is a real feminist?
I am being serious.
Does a woman who identifies herself as a feminist have a problem with stay at home Mom's? Is she somehoe offended if a man opens a door for her, or steps aside allowing her to go first through a door...or helps her lift something heavy?

I have honestly no idea what a real feminist is.

 

[Si modo]

What is a real feminist?
Seriously.

I think everyone knows what a sudo feminist is - a group of primarily lesbian women who hate men who have certainly hijacked feminism.
But what is a real feminist?
I am being serious.
Does a woman who identifies herself as a feminist have a problem with stay at home Mom's? Is she somehoe offended if a man opens a door for her, or steps aside allowing her to go first through a door...or helps her lift something heavy?

I have honestly no idea what a real feminist is.

I think Peggy Noonan's op-ed might give you an idea.

JB said in another thread and sums it up nicely

....

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

....

 

[editec]

You'd have to define what you mean by a REAL feminist.

And then of course, we'd have to GUESS if the ladies here are of that ilk.

 

[Si modo]

You'd have to define what you mean by a REAL feminist.

And then of course, we'd have to GUESS if the ladies here are of that ilk.

Far be it for me to speak for JB, but I think he means those who follow the tenets of first and second waves of feminism.

Here's a summary.

 

[Ravi]

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

....

Nonsense. Power is something that everyone wants.

I see now that Buttemia defines "real" feminist as someone that opposes abortion.

More divisive bullshit designed to pit women against each other.

 

[Si modo]

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

....

Nonsense. Power is something that everyone wants.

I see now that Buttemia defines "real" feminist as someone that opposes abortion.

More divisive bullshit designed to pit women against each other.

Hmmm, I don't oppose the right to choose abortion. Not at all.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have the same problem with feminism as many other groups that seek "equality".
Trouble is, it isn't really equality they are after - but a leg up like everyone else wants.

Does a "real" feminist support the broad advantages of "women owned business"?
Which is right in line with affirmative action, an unconstitutional policy whereby you directly disadvantage one group in an effort to remove an assumed disadvantage of another.

 

[chanel]

Me neither. But I don't oppose the right to oppose abortion either. Go figure.

 

[Ravi]

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

....

Nonsense. Power is something that everyone wants.

I see now that Buttemia defines "real" feminist as someone that opposes abortion.

More divisive bullshit designed to pit women against each other.

Hmmm, I don't oppose the right to choose abortion. Not at all.

No, but I see you managed to slip through his loophole by agreeing that a man should be able to refuse to pay child support. I have no problem with that, myself. Though it does condemn men to being nothing more than penises...which of course is a choice they are free to make.

I'm happy for you that you fit Buttemia's definition of feminist. Good show!

I doubt I ever will because it is my belief that a man no more has a right to determine what a woman does with her body than a woman has a right to determine what a man does with his body.

woe is me! *sob*

Still, his notion that feminists only want power is laughable. Everyone wants power over their own bodies and destinies.

A human trait, not a male or female trait.

Buttemia is a classic sexist.

 

[Si modo]

Nonsense. Power is something that everyone wants.

I see now that Buttemia defines "real" feminist as someone that opposes abortion.

More divisive bullshit designed to pit women against each other.

Hmmm, I don't oppose the right to choose abortion. Not at all.

No, but I see you managed to slip through his loophole by agreeing that a man should be able to refuse to pay child support. I have no problem with that, myself. Though it does condemn men to being nothing more than penises...which of course is a choice they are free to make.

I'm happy for you that you fit Buttemia's definition of feminist. Good show!

I doubt I ever will because it is my belief that a man no more has a right to determine what a woman does with her body than a woman has a right to determine what a man does with his body.

woe is me! *sob*

....

I agree with your view.

I don't know why that seems to bother you.

.... Still, his notion that feminists only want power is laughable. Everyone wants power over their own bodies and destinies.

A human trait, not a male or female trait.

....

Too true. But he just said power.

Political power at the cost of equality, responsibility, justice, and independence is distasteful to me.

.... Buttemia is a classic sexist.

He may be. I haven't paid too much attention to what he posts until now, but on this, I agree with him.

 

[Ravi]

That we agree doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that Buttemia somehow believes he is entitled to define the word feminist and claim that anyone that doesn't agree to his narrow view cannot be a feminist.

He uses women as tools.

 

[JBeukema]

You'd have to define what you mean by a REAL feminist.

And then of course, we'd have to GUESS if the ladies here are of that ilk.

Did you read the OP?

...1st and 2nd-wavers who believed in equality, responsibility, and independence