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First George Bush's SEC let Wall Street run a derivatives based Ponzi scheme the destroyed the world economy in 2008.
Then the Republicans on the Supreme Court voted to allow unlimited secret campaign contributions in the Citizens United decision.
Then the Republicans in the House shut down the government to try to defund the Affordable Care Act.
And now they are threatening to send the country into default and crash the economy again.
Why would anyone vote for a party that hates government and continually tries to damage our country?
First George Bush's SEC let Wall Street run a derivatives based Ponzi scheme the destroyed the world economy in 2008.
Then the Republicans on the Supreme Court voted to allow unlimited secret campaign contributions in the Citizens United decision.
Then the Republicans in the House shut down the government to try to defund the Affordable Care Act.
And now they are threatening to send the country into default and crash the economy again.
Why would anyone vote for a party that hates government and continually tries to damage our country?
but of course, there were no Democrats around and involved in anything during Booooooooooooooooooosh
just like they (Democrats) aren't now under the Dear Leader
you see how that works folks?
I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't seeing it with my own eyes.
Remember two years ago when the so-called Tea Party Caucus brought America to the brink only to cause the US to get a credit downgrade from AAA to AA+? That led to higher interest rates to the tune of about $19 Billion which American taxpayers had to pay. Have those champions of fiscal responsibility ever said they were sorry about that?
First George Bush's SEC let Wall Street run a derivatives based Ponzi scheme the destroyed the world economy in 2008.
Then the Republicans on the Supreme Court voted to allow unlimited secret campaign contributions in the Citizens United decision.
Then the Republicans in the House shut down the government to try to defund the Affordable Care Act.
And now they are threatening to send the country into default and crash the economy again.
Why would anyone vote for a party that hates government and continually tries to damage our country?
but of course, there were no Democrats around and involved in anything during Booooooooooooooooooosh
just like they (Democrats) aren't now under the Dear Leader
you see how that works folks?
Maybe you can answer a question for me. I doubt it, but it's worth a try.
Why is it that conservatives always seem to reach conclusions based on rumor or some bit of information that doesn't quite stand up to scrutiny in terms of authenticity or verifiability. It's just so opinion-based as if believing it is all that's required to make it true.
So, whether it's Vince Foster's supposed murder, or the contention that there's lack of "evidence" regarding global warming (which is based on the solid scientific fact of how an increase in carbon dioxide in any atmosphere reacts with sunlight), or Bill Clinton supposedly raping a woman OR selling military secrets to the Chinese, or the 'theory' of supply side economics which holds that cutting marginal tax rates increases revenues, it all seems so nebulous, so faith-based. It's reminds me of people who used to ask people to trust them as they tried to find water with a divining rod.
Yet, when liberals have numbers and evidence and science to back up their contentions or theories, you guys dismiss it out of hand or claim that it's just elitist nonsense, or claim that there's some other nefarious motive behind it. It's like listening to someone dismiss the findings of if a GPS device as if it was dome kind of superstition or, worse still, perhaps witchcraft.
Why is that?
Notice how they fail to address that the credit rating was lowered because of the out of control spending?
Tell us Mustang, How much Debt will be enough to convince you that we are spending too much?
ublicDebtTriade.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Right, out of control spending and adding more debt to the 17Trillion is what we need to keep our good credit rating. We will be downgraded if we can't control our big spending politicians, and rightfully so.
A person can argue that spending is too high, but it's not out of control since it IS controled by the legislative process.
But something is out of whack. It's the imbalance between spending and the necessary revenue stream to support such spending. And THAT has happened because Republicans have adopted a policy of not only not raising taxes under any circumstances (which is fiscally irresponsibile in and of itself), but they have also pushed the mantra of cutting taxes under any and all circumstances which is ALSO fiscally irresponsible.
So, when a Republican president cuts taxes in a time of war, and spends a boatload of money on other measures similtaneously, it should be no surprise that the deficit explodes.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
But what's happening now is an unnecessary self-inflicted wound that's being perpetrated on us even as all the warnings are coming in from around the country and the world not to let it happen. They can't say they weren't warned. In fact, they're marching the nation head on into the fray as if they WANT it to happen. Why would that be? Could it really be that they want to precipitate this crisis?
In that vein, I'll remind you of the sequester. It was proposed as an idea that (supposedly) would be SO unacceptable to both sides that both sides would eventually reach a compromise. But what happened? No compromise was reached, and the sequester went into effect even though the president was quite clear that he didn't want it. And it's still in effect today. This looming event is starting to look very much like that event in that regard since we assumed that everyone didn't want a default and would blink before it happened because they were just posturing for a better deal.
But what if they actually WANT a default to happen and we don't realize it until it's too late?
So, when a Republican president cuts taxes in a time of war, and spends a boatload of money on other measures similtaneously, it should be no surprise that the deficit explodes.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't seeing it with my own eyes.
Remember two years ago when the so-called Tea Party Caucus brought America to the brink only to cause the US to get a credit downgrade from AAA to AA+?
Right, out of control spending and adding more debt to the 17Trillion is what we need to keep our good credit rating. We will be downgraded if we can't control our big spending politicians, and rightfully so.
A person can argue that spending is too high, but it's not out of control since it IS controled by the legislative process.
But something is out of whack. It's the imbalance between spending and the necessary revenue stream to support such spending. And THAT has happened because Republicans have adopted a policy of not only not raising taxes under any circumstances (which is fiscally irresponsibile in and of itself), but they have also pushed the mantra of cutting taxes under any and all circumstances which is ALSO fiscally irresponsible.
So, when a Republican president cuts taxes in a time of war, and spends a boatload of money on other measures similtaneously, it should be no surprise that the deficit explodes.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
But what's happening now is an unnecessary self-inflicted wound that's being perpetrated on us even as all the warnings are coming in from around the country and the world not to let it happen. They can't say they weren't warned. In fact, they're marching the nation head on into the fray as if they WANT it to happen. Why would that be? Could it really be that they want to precipitate this crisis?
In that vein, I'll remind you of the sequester. It was proposed as an idea that (supposedly) would be SO unacceptable to both sides that both sides would eventually reach a compromise. But what happened? No compromise was reached, and the sequester went into effect even though the president was quite clear that he didn't want it. And it's still in effect today. This looming event is starting to look very much like that event in that regard since we assumed that everyone didn't want a default and would blink before it happened because they were just posturing for a better deal.
But what if they actually WANT a default to happen and we don't realize it until it's too late?
So, when a Republican president cuts taxes in a time of war, and spends a boatload of money on other measures similtaneously, it should be no surprise that the deficit explodes.
I agree, the second set of cuts should not have occurred.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
taxes did go up, last January, hello
obama agreed to tax reform ala corp. tax rates, in exchange for drops in deductions, closing loopholes, what happened to that? Oh wait, he changed what tax reform means to needing more revenue, in other words the rates stay the same while they close loopholes and drop deductions.......
Unfortunately, a lot of corporations are moving certain operations outside the US in order to completely bypass paying taxes at all so the issue of lowering their rates is often a mute point. .
Notice how they fail to address that the credit rating was lowered because of the out of control spending?
Tell us Mustang, How much Debt will be enough to convince you that we are spending too much?
It would help if the people doing all the fear-mongering about the debt knew a little something about economics AND the history of the US debt to GDP ratio.
The first graph shows the historical perspective.
The Long Story of U.S. Debt, From 1790 to 2011, in 1 Little Chart - Matt Phillips - The Atlantic
The US is currently a little lower than WWII levels. Are you aware that we never paid off that debt? That's right. We grew the economy so that the debt shrank as a percentage of the GDP.
Keep that in mind because the worst thing our gov't could do in a time of high unemployment (which also means lower tax revenue and higher transfer payments) is to massively cut spending which essentially throws more people out of work, thereby worsening the situation regarding higher unemployment, less tax receipts, and more transfer payments.
The second graph is the debt to GDP ratio of 3 countries. As late as 5 years ago, the US was about where Germany was. It's Japan that has the high ratio.
FileublicDebtTriade.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What our country needs to do is grow the economy, and Congress could help that along with a jobs program to prime the economic pump instead of fixating on lowering the debt which only perpetuates and actually compounds the problem.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time and effort by just posting "The sky is falling!"Don't even need to read you post to respond. If conservatives don't take a stand then the country os FUCKED!!!
(1) Obamacare has been as bad as the conservatives were screaming about.
(a) All the large employers are moving a large chunk (to in some cases all) to P/T and everyone is losing their benefits.
(b) All workers that still have employer healthcare are seeing DRAMATIC increases in both premiums and deductibles.
(c) The bronze program is god awful, covers nothing, has a ridiculous $5K deductible ($12K for family) and costs individuals and families a butt load of cash. More than what it used to be.
(d) The website is PURPOSEFULLY defective so people couldn't see the true costs.
(e) The problem with sick people not getting insurance is STILL PRESENT, since now healthcare is SO expensive the sick and disable can't get insurance.
(f) The cost of this OBAMINATION is so emence it will never work!
(g) Small business are getting SLAMMED by this. Large corps can adjust or shift cost to the consumer, but small businesses don't have the resources or margins to adjust. Many won't be prepared in a year and many will reduce workforces to under 50. I have heard rumbles about small businesses breaking off into sister companies that now are independent organizations, but function as a whole. All in a effort to be under 50!
They need to take a stand, because this boneheaded plan is WORSE than what we have been warned of!
(2) The Deficit. To be clear this deficit has been growin under many President, but none great than the last two and none greater than under Obama. The CBO has estimated, WITHOUT Obaminationcare, the deficit will grow to $20 TRILLION by the end of 2016. That is $4 Tril greater than our GDP. It's sick and disgusting. It will destroy this country.
(3) OIL, Coal and Natural Gas. With findings and new tech we are in the mist of a domestic energy boom, but Obama is doing everything to stiffle it. He REFUSES to open up public grounds which hold emence oil reserves and he is trying to push legislation to shut down Coal and hurt natural gas and oil. Let's be frank, all three sources of energy great enormous amounts of high paying jobs! Kids out of highschool are getting six figures in North Dakota. The boom is so great that McDonalds is paying $17 an hour to start (note: North Dakota doesn't have illegal immigrants). Energy = EASY Jobs
(4) More Regulation All the Time! That is the democratic way. Right now it costs MORE to manufacture in China, Japan, Indonesia and South Korea and ship to America, because of rising shipping and labor costs in those countries, but for China in particular the mass of STUPID regulations makes it still more attractive to manufacture there than here!
(5) Corporate Tax. Highest in the world.
(6) Illegal Immigration. Whatever you want to say they are responsible for wage suppression in MANY industries. That is why Caser Chavez was VIOLENTLY against them!
Conservatives aren't the issue its Democrats and Liberal Republicans that are!
Unfortunately, a lot of corporations are moving certain operations outside the US in order to completely bypass paying taxes at all so the issue of lowering their rates is often a mute point. .
Unfortunately?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Oh no, they are supposed to hang around and wait until the PARASITIC FACTION - The birds of prey - come down on the carcasses.
.
A person can argue that spending is too high, but it's not out of control since it IS controled by the legislative process.
But something is out of whack. It's the imbalance between spending and the necessary revenue stream to support such spending. And THAT has happened because Republicans have adopted a policy of not only not raising taxes under any circumstances (which is fiscally irresponsibile in and of itself), but they have also pushed the mantra of cutting taxes under any and all circumstances which is ALSO fiscally irresponsible.
So, when a Republican president cuts taxes in a time of war, and spends a boatload of money on other measures similtaneously, it should be no surprise that the deficit explodes.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
But what's happening now is an unnecessary self-inflicted wound that's being perpetrated on us even as all the warnings are coming in from around the country and the world not to let it happen. They can't say they weren't warned. In fact, they're marching the nation head on into the fray as if they WANT it to happen. Why would that be? Could it really be that they want to precipitate this crisis?
In that vein, I'll remind you of the sequester. It was proposed as an idea that (supposedly) would be SO unacceptable to both sides that both sides would eventually reach a compromise. But what happened? No compromise was reached, and the sequester went into effect even though the president was quite clear that he didn't want it. And it's still in effect today. This looming event is starting to look very much like that event in that regard since we assumed that everyone didn't want a default and would blink before it happened because they were just posturing for a better deal.
But what if they actually WANT a default to happen and we don't realize it until it's too late?
I agree, the second set of cuts should not have occurred.
Just as Democrats have to embrace spending cuts, Republicans must face facts that taxes must go up to previous levels in order to help lower the national debt. Let me know when they accept that.
taxes did go up, last January, hello
obama agreed to tax reform ala corp. tax rates, in exchange for drops in deductions, closing loopholes, what happened to that? Oh wait, he changed what tax reform means to needing more revenue, in other words the rates stay the same while they close loopholes and drop deductions.......
Yes, federal income taxes went up ever so slightly on incomes above about $400k which is nowhere near to what the rates used to be just a few years ago when our gov't had a better handle on the debt. Capital gains taxes also need to go up if for no other reason than the fact that many people have transfered their mode of payment away from salaries and toward carried interest as a means of sheltering their income.
As far as corporate tax reform is concerned, I'm all for it, but I don't think a lot of companies are because they've found ways of sheltering income using offshore companies and accounts to avoid paying taxes when they're not using every loophole the laws allow in this country, which they know about all too well because they helped guide the laws that created these exemptions.
Quite a few American corporations are keeping their money overseas because they think (know) it would be taxed as income if they brought it back here. They want a tax holiday. I'd like to see a graduated tax schedule that gives them a lower income tax rate the sooner they brought that money back to America with an increasing level of taxation the longer they kept it off shore. Give them an incentive (but not a pass at taxation) to bring the money back here sooner with lower rates or even an exemption for any money which is invested here in the US in the creation of jobs as opposed to just parked in a US bank.
Unfortunately, a lot of corporations are moving certain operations outside the US in order to completely bypass paying taxes at all so the issue of lowering their rates is often a mute point. The laws should be changed to prevent American corporations from benefitting from American infrastructure which is paid for by tax dollars while avoiding US income tax which is what a lot of them are doing.
Notice how they fail to address that the credit rating was lowered because of the out of control spending?
Tell us Mustang, How much Debt will be enough to convince you that we are spending too much?
It would help if the people doing all the fear-mongering about the debt knew a little something about economics AND the history of the US debt to GDP ratio.
The first graph shows the historical perspective.
The Long Story of U.S. Debt, From 1790 to 2011, in 1 Little Chart - Matt Phillips - The Atlantic
The US is currently a little lower than WWII levels. Are you aware that we never paid off that debt? That's right. We grew the economy so that the debt shrank as a percentage of the GDP.
Keep that in mind because the worst thing our gov't could do in a time of high unemployment (which also means lower tax revenue and higher transfer payments) is to massively cut spending which essentially throws more people out of work, thereby worsening the situation regarding higher unemployment, less tax receipts, and more transfer payments.
The second graph is the debt to GDP ratio of 3 countries. As late as 5 years ago, the US was about where Germany was. It's Japan that has the high ratio.
File
What our country needs to do is grow the economy, and Congress could help that along with a jobs program to prime the economic pump instead of fixating on lowering the debt which only perpetuates and actually compounds the problem.
So you can't think of a number....Got it...How about the number of jobs bills passed by the house and killed in the Senate?
You talk a good talk but the facts don't add up...I like to keep it basic and you follow the old army saying that if you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with Bullshit.
Again, how much debt before you think it's too much? 30 trillion do? Or do you have your sights set on 50 trillion?
The House may have passed a number of jobs bills but along with each of those jobs bills were riders that did NOT involve jobs. Many of those bills carried riders to repeal or destroy the ACA. Others carried riders that would have given breaks to certain industries. Some carried riders to give the okay for the Keystone pipeline. In other words the republicans played the same game they used in the current budget bill; They attacked bills to the jobs bill that were not passable.Notice how they fail to address that the credit rating was lowered because of the out of control spending?
Tell us Mustang, How much Debt will be enough to convince you that we are spending too much?
It would help if the people doing all the fear-mongering about the debt knew a little something about economics AND the history of the US debt to GDP ratio.
The first graph shows the historical perspective.
The Long Story of U.S. Debt, From 1790 to 2011, in 1 Little Chart - Matt Phillips - The Atlantic
The US is currently a little lower than WWII levels. Are you aware that we never paid off that debt? That's right. We grew the economy so that the debt shrank as a percentage of the GDP.
Keep that in mind because the worst thing our gov't could do in a time of high unemployment (which also means lower tax revenue and higher transfer payments) is to massively cut spending which essentially throws more people out of work, thereby worsening the situation regarding higher unemployment, less tax receipts, and more transfer payments.
The second graph is the debt to GDP ratio of 3 countries. As late as 5 years ago, the US was about where Germany was. It's Japan that has the high ratio.
File
What our country needs to do is grow the economy, and Congress could help that along with a jobs program to prime the economic pump instead of fixating on lowering the debt which only perpetuates and actually compounds the problem.
So you can't think of a number....Got it...How about the number of jobs bills passed by the house and killed in the Senate?
You talk a good talk but the facts don't add up...I like to keep it basic and you follow the old army saying that if you can't dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with Bullshit.
Again, how much debt before you think it's too much? 30 trillion do? Or do you have your sights set on 50 trillion?
prol ly. Right now it looks like he's putting the retention of his Speaker position (tea party spokesman really) in front of doing whats right for this great nation. Sad
Generally, I'm not a fan of heavy handed leaders like Lyndon Johnson in the Senate or Tom DeLay in the House because they ran roughshod over the membership too much and too often. But sometimes a strong leader needs to exert his leadership role and say enough is ENOUGH and mete out some punishment too if some of the caucus members are behaving like petulant children. This, in my opinion, is one of those times.
the thing is, he'd lose his speakership w/o the endorsement of the 50 or so eXtreme Right Tealiban in the House so he's going the extra mile to keep them from firing him.
