And we are the richest nation on the planet???

[Lonestar_logic]

Homeless find temporary haven in tent camps - CNN.com



Does this bother anyone else?

No. Should it?

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I asked a fair question, that you have refused to answer. However, you DID manage to accuse me of "blaming others". Please find where I did this and post it here, or I will await your apology for you being a liar.

I'm pretty sure his answer was a resounding NO. But I could be mistaken, which would be a first.

Meanwhile I await his apology for lying.

It's his opinion, however right or wrong it may be. In other words, you're in for a long wait.

 

[auditor0007]

And whether we WERE the richest nation on the planet or not is irrelevant.... just because one exists does not entitle one to suck off the tit of society or have your needs taken care of by the labor of another... in our nation based on freedom and liberty, you have the opportunity to fail that goes hand-in-hand with the opportunity to succeed.. it is supposed to be on your merits, your efforts, your labors, your endeavors, your choices, your ideas, and your gumption... not just given to you for the simple fact that you exist

Personally.. if I am in need of a place to stay, I am not against working 2 or 3 jobs... putting forth the effort to find out what it takes to go from entry level to a better position... going to the library to read education and certification books to advance my knowledge and increase demand for my knowledge... spending money on a suit from goodwill rather than buying a case of beer and a carton of smokes... looking for organizations and charities or individuals that offer job skills training, possibly in exchange for labor or services I can provide in return.... saving $25 a week so that I can pay for a class at the community college in the next semester to boost my education background.... the list goes on...

But no... we have people like you who simply blame others for simply not giving you want you want or 'need' with no effort or contribution by you... you entitlement junkies sicken me

While I tend to agree, your view is always too simplistic to be realistic or even morally close to being right. Should we just hand out everything to those who don't want to work? Absolutely not. At the same time, there are many people who find themselves in terrible situations even though they have tried to make a solid effort, and those like you would just assume they rot. It may be simple to make everything black and white, but reality tells us that everything is not black and white; there are many gray areas.

 

[VaYank5150]

And whether we WERE the richest nation on the planet or not is irrelevant.... just because one exists does not entitle one to suck off the tit of society or have your needs taken care of by the labor of another... in our nation based on freedom and liberty, you have the opportunity to fail that goes hand-in-hand with the opportunity to succeed.. it is supposed to be on your merits, your efforts, your labors, your endeavors, your choices, your ideas, and your gumption... not just given to you for the simple fact that you exist

Personally.. if I am in need of a place to stay, I am not against working 2 or 3 jobs... putting forth the effort to find out what it takes to go from entry level to a better position... going to the library to read education and certification books to advance my knowledge and increase demand for my knowledge... spending money on a suit from goodwill rather than buying a case of beer and a carton of smokes... looking for organizations and charities or individuals that offer job skills training, possibly in exchange for labor or services I can provide in return.... saving $25 a week so that I can pay for a class at the community college in the next semester to boost my education background.... the list goes on...

But no... we have people like you who simply blame others for simply not giving you want you want or 'need' with no effort or contribution by you... you entitlement junkies sicken me

I asked a fair question, that you have refused to answer. However, you DID manage to accuse me of "blaming others". Please find where I did this and post it here, or I will await your apology for you being a liar.

The premise behind your posting of this thread is that is we are the richest nation on the planet, then why do we have people living in tents... and the simple answer is, as stated, that even if we are the richest nation, we are a nation based on freedom and liberty... including the opportunity to fail...

And if you believe that we should not have people failing when we are 'rich', then you must believe we owe things to other in order for them not to fail.. and if we are not just simply handing out entitlements, and you are condemning the current situation, by logic you are blaming those who have access for not having that excess supporting those who have failed in their efforts

You will get no apology from me

With all of the "ifs" in your statement, I am not surprised....sounds like you are accustomed to making A LOT of assumptions.

 

[DiamondDave]

No. Should it?

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

Correct.. and defense is a charge of the national government.. taking care of one's personal needs and responsibilities is not a charge of the federal government...

Nobody is owed what they want or what they 'need' simply by their existence.... you want something, earn it

 

[WillowTree]

You probably shouldn't post articles and ask for opinions, VaSkank if yer just gonna get all upset about the answers. It doesn't make you look too smart.

But to answer your question, no it doesn't. (Yes I read the article)

I understand your opinion and it is probably warranted. HOWEVER, the poster I responded to didn't even bother to answer my question. Instead, he went straight into excuse mode for the tent cities. That tells me he has an agenda. What does that tell you?

I answered the question. The question was "And we are the richest nation on the planet" to which I responded. "Fuck No."

 

[DiamondDave]

I asked a fair question, that you have refused to answer. However, you DID manage to accuse me of "blaming others". Please find where I did this and post it here, or I will await your apology for you being a liar.

The premise behind your posting of this thread is that is we are the richest nation on the planet, then why do we have people living in tents... and the simple answer is, as stated, that even if we are the richest nation, we are a nation based on freedom and liberty... including the opportunity to fail...

And if you believe that we should not have people failing when we are 'rich', then you must believe we owe things to other in order for them not to fail.. and if we are not just simply handing out entitlements, and you are condemning the current situation, by logic you are blaming those who have access for not having that excess supporting those who have failed in their efforts

You will get no apology from me

With all of the "ifs" in your statement, I am not surprised....sounds like you are accustomed to making A LOT of assumptions.

And by your tone, past posting tendencies, and stated beliefs in other postings, it is pretty safe to say that those 'ifs' or assumptions are pretty spot on.... hence why my initial post addressed you as it did

If the shoe fits.. wear it

It's not like you make an initial post such as yours if you are defending the concept of freedom and the right to succeed OR fail...

 

[VaYank5150]

No. Should it?

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

It was not all that long ago, that I thought much as you do here. However, I have learned that the "broad brush" approach is inaccurate at best. If you truly believe that all people who have fallen on hard times, CHOSE to fall on hard times, then there is no middle ground for you and i to debate upon. But, I thank you for your opinions thus far.

 

[xsited1]

Homeless find temporary haven in tent camps - CNN.com

Tent camps once associated mainly with the "Hoovervilles" of the Great Depression are springing up in places as varied as Sacramento, California; Nashville, Tennessee; Pinellas County, Florida; Providence, Rhode Island; and Seattle, Washington.

The camps have often led to standoffs between local governments that say the camps violate housing ordinances and homeless rights advocates who argue that people struggling to get back on their feet need a permanent place to stay.

There are no definitive numbers on how many people have taken to living in homeless camps. A recent annual report from the Department of Housing and Urban Development showed an increase in homelessness among families while overall rates of homelessness stayed roughly the same.

Does this bother anyone else?

I guess it depends on the tent. If it's, say, a North Face tent, it's probably okay. However, if it's just something you bought at Wal-Mart, that would definitely bother me. And do they have WiFi? That would be unbearable if they didn't.

 

[VaYank5150]

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

Correct.. and defense is a charge of the national government.. taking care of one's personal needs and responsibilities is not a charge of the federal government...

Nobody is owed what they want or what they 'need' simply by their existence.... you want something, earn it

Fair enough.

 

[VaYank5150]

The premise behind your posting of this thread is that is we are the richest nation on the planet, then why do we have people living in tents... and the simple answer is, as stated, that even if we are the richest nation, we are a nation based on freedom and liberty... including the opportunity to fail...

And if you believe that we should not have people failing when we are 'rich', then you must believe we owe things to other in order for them not to fail.. and if we are not just simply handing out entitlements, and you are condemning the current situation, by logic you are blaming those who have access for not having that excess supporting those who have failed in their efforts

You will get no apology from me

With all of the "ifs" in your statement, I am not surprised....sounds like you are accustomed to making A LOT of assumptions.

And by your tone, past posting tendencies, and stated beliefs in other postings, it is pretty safe to say that those 'ifs' or assumptions are pretty spot on.... hence why my initial post addressed you as it did

If the shoe fits.. wear it

It's not like you make an initial post such as yours if you are defending the concept of freedom and the right to succeed OR fail...

No, I am trying to understand. I still, to this day, do not understand why so many are happily willing to have their taxpayer dollars spent on the richest and most advnaced military in the world, only to have it used in foreign countries? Why are people willing to step over and ignore the veteran sleeping under the bridge, in order to protest whatthey perceive as excessive spending from our federal government?

 

[rightwinger]

Rightwinger a nations wealth is measured by its GDP, here is a world map with GDPs displayed as colors on it. As you can see there are a few other nations that top us, we are not the richest as a nation and our govt is bankrupt.

I was speaking TOTAL GDP

The Richest Country by GDP is the US with an annual GDP of $14.8 trillion.

United States of America. GDP = $14,839bn, GDP per head = $48,400, PPP = $48,400
Japan. GDP = $5,388bn, GDP per head = $42,310, PPP = $35,710
China. GDP = $4,818bn, GDP per head = $3,600, PPP = $6,830
Germany. GDP = $3,440bn, GDP per head = $41,550, PPP = $36,100
France. GDP = $2,734bn, GDP per head = $43,910, PPP = $35,750
United Kingdom. GDP = $2,442bn, GDP per head = $39,470, PPP = $36,820
Italy. GDP = $2,334bn, GDP per head = $40,150, PPP = $32,210
Russia. GDP = $1,680bn, GDP per head = $11,880, PPP = $16,300
Spain. GDP = $1,581bn, GDP per head = $34,540, PPP = $32,120
Canada. GDP = $1,468bn, GDP per head = $43,860, PPP = $40,540


Read more: http://gross-national-product.suite..._by_gdp_and_the_poorest_country#ixzz0SWDuLbFJ

 

[KittenKoder]

After reading some of the posts in this thread I would like to add:

The problem isn't the existence of said camps, but the ignorance of those who don't or have never lived in one. First, get rid of the notion that junkies live in them. In reality junkies prefer shelters, it's too much work to live in a tent. There is very little criminal activity in the tents, no more than in any suburban neighborhood in the US. Our local Tent City actually has shown to reduce crime in the neighborhood they exist in and at times proved to benefit the area. This is based on the reports of the police. So, if handled correctly these Tent Cities can be helpful across the board.

However the resistance to tent cities shows our dependence on entitlements, they are not easy to live in. In shelters you have staff cooking and cleaning for you, in a tent you not only have to face the elements but you also have to cook and clean for yourself. These "campers" are often hard workers, laborers who are unable to afford a home or apartment and live in the tents saving money for them, many prefer that life (mountain men run out of the wilderness by environuts and land owners).

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

It was not all that long ago, that I thought much as you do here. However, I have learned that the "broad brush" approach is inaccurate at best. If you truly believe that all people who have fallen on hard times, CHOSE to fall on hard times, then there is no middle ground for you and i to debate upon. But, I thank you for your opinions thus far.

Are you then denying that people get to where they are in life by the actions they take, the decisions they make, the efforts they give, the use of their abilities, etc??? You think that any or a majority get where they are out of the bullshit premise of "bad luck"? And even if you have 'legit' 'bad luck', are you then inherently owed a get out of jail free card at the expense of someone else, simply because you exist??

'Well... it was the company that went out of business that made me lose my job.'... Yes, but you chose to work for that company and you had the freedom to work another place
'Well... I went into debt and did not earn more as the economy went down.'... Well, maybe you should not have chosen to spend as you did or should have chosen to supplement your income in one of many ways...
'Well... I can't afford to go to college.'... Well, maybe you should set $25 a week aside instead of going to a club or having a luxury like cable TV, and then you could afford to start taking classes...
'Well.... I lost my house when the value went down and the interest rate went up."... Well, maybe you should have bought a more affordable house or made the choice not to go with an adjustable rate loan that specifically lays out how much the rate can increase during any set period of time...
The list goes on... and the fact is that we are a result of everything that we do, choose, act upon, try, etc....

 

[DiamondDave]

With all of the "ifs" in your statement, I am not surprised....sounds like you are accustomed to making A LOT of assumptions.

And by your tone, past posting tendencies, and stated beliefs in other postings, it is pretty safe to say that those 'ifs' or assumptions are pretty spot on.... hence why my initial post addressed you as it did

If the shoe fits.. wear it

It's not like you make an initial post such as yours if you are defending the concept of freedom and the right to succeed OR fail...

No, I am trying to understand. I still, to this day, do not understand why so many are happily willing to have their taxpayer dollars spent on the richest and most advnaced military in the world, only to have it used in foreign countries? Why are people willing to step over and ignore the veteran sleeping under the bridge, in order to protest whatthey perceive as excessive spending from our federal government?

For we do have things like allies that need or request our military help.... now do I think that a country should try and repay us for assistance?? Yep... but doubt that with all the ass-kissing in this world, that that is going to happen...


As for the vet under the bridge... his or her personal upkeep is their personal responsibility... and they are not OWED anything, just as nobody else is OWED anything simply for their existence... now do I believe in VOLUNTARY CHARITIES to help groups of people you wish to VOLUNTARILY help??? Yes indeed... Hell, I donate to a local charity that helps those with lesser mental capacities train to live on their own without assistance and I believe it to be a GREAT cause... but I do that because I wish to, and I do not believe everyone else OWES to support that same cause....

 

[rightwinger]

Are you then denying that people get to where they are in life by the actions they take, the decisions they make, the efforts they give, the use of their abilities, etc??? You think that any or a majority get where they are out of the bullshit premise of "bad luck"? And even if you have 'legit' 'bad luck', are you then inherently owed a get out of jail free card at the expense of someone else, simply because you exist??

Look... we are the richest nation on earth
We are not Calcutta with people begging and starving in the streets. Whether someone "deserves" it or not, we should be able to provide a certain standard of living to everyone.

I'm not talking everyone deserves a three bedroom house in the suburbs, but a basic "three hots and a cot" which also includes healthcare.

A country as rich as the US should be able to provide a basic safety net for all citizens and not apply a "are you worthy?" standard

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't know if it should or not. But I appreciate your honest answer. IF we are not willing to take care of the poorest and weakest of us, why are we willing to spend billlions of dollars on defense systems to defend their right to be the poorest and weakest?

The billions that are spent on defense, defends us all the rich, poor, strong and weak. The poor in society have the same opportunites I had. They can choose to stay poor while blaming society for their ills or they can do something about it. I see help wanted signs everyday in store fronts and fast food joints. if they really wanted to work, they would. But why should they when the taxpayers are feeding their lazy asses.

Correct.. and defense is a charge of the national government.. taking care of one's personal needs and responsibilities is not a charge of the federal government...

Nobody is owed what they want or what they 'need' simply by their existence.... you want something, earn it

I agree, I see folks buying groceries with food stamps then loading up in a 2009 Escalade. There's something definately wrong with that picture.

 

[DiamondDave]

Are you then denying that people get to where they are in life by the actions they take, the decisions they make, the efforts they give, the use of their abilities, etc??? You think that any or a majority get where they are out of the bullshit premise of "bad luck"? And even if you have 'legit' 'bad luck', are you then inherently owed a get out of jail free card at the expense of someone else, simply because you exist??

Look... we are the richest nation on earth
We are not Calcutta with people begging and starving in the streets. Whether someone "deserves" it or not, we should be able to provide a certain standard of living to everyone.

I'm not talking everyone deserves a three bedroom house in the suburbs, but a basic "three hots and a cot" which also includes healthcare.

A country as rich as the US should be able to provide a basic safety net for all citizens and not apply a "are you worthy?" standard

No we should not.. and that goes with the concept of freedom.. the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed... you cannot curb one without curbing the other

This is PERSONAL responsibility to take care of your needs.. not someone else's responsibility simply for your existence... whether it be your food, your health care, or your housing...

freedom... try and understand it

 

[KittenKoder]

Are you then denying that people get to where they are in life by the actions they take, the decisions they make, the efforts they give, the use of their abilities, etc??? You think that any or a majority get where they are out of the bullshit premise of "bad luck"? And even if you have 'legit' 'bad luck', are you then inherently owed a get out of jail free card at the expense of someone else, simply because you exist??

Look... we are the richest nation on earth
We are not Calcutta with people begging and starving in the streets. Whether someone "deserves" it or not, we should be able to provide a certain standard of living to everyone.

I'm not talking everyone deserves a three bedroom house in the suburbs, but a basic "three hots and a cot" which also includes healthcare.

A country as rich as the US should be able to provide a basic safety net for all citizens and not apply a "are you worthy?" standard

In spite of facts you still hold to that myth. We are not the richest by a long shot. Healthcare isn't a right, and people choose to live in tents.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Are you then denying that people get to where they are in life by the actions they take, the decisions they make, the efforts they give, the use of their abilities, etc??? You think that any or a majority get where they are out of the bullshit premise of "bad luck"? And even if you have 'legit' 'bad luck', are you then inherently owed a get out of jail free card at the expense of someone else, simply because you exist??

we should be able to provide a certain standard of living to everyone.

I'm not talking everyone deserves a three bedroom house in the suburbs, but a basic "three hots and a cot" which also includes healthcare.

A country as rich as the US should be able to provide a basic safety net for all citizens and not apply a "are you worthy?" standard

I dont disagree with your sentiment in this post (I deleted part of your post on purpose).

However, who do you see as being responsible to provide this? The Government or the Local Community? Or someone else?

I feel this is where our opinions diverge...we both want the same thing but I am suspicious that you not only want the government to do it but feel the government has a responsiblity to do it.

I on the other hand say its the local community's responsibility and decision to make and not the governments. Now if the local community wants to force the local government to do it by getting local laws passed through the legislative process I have no problem with that, after all it is how our system was set up to work.