And we are the richest nation on the planet???

[Mr. Peepers]

... not forced wealth redistribution...

You mean like Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy? Oh, and while I'm on the subject, the MIC is not there for our "defense" nor our protection. It apparently is there to siphon off our taxpayer money to greedy contractors and nothing more. They sure haven't done too great of a job "protecting" us, have they? Follow the $$$.

 

[DiamondDave]

... not forced wealth redistribution...

You mean like Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy? Oh, and while I'm on the subject, the MIC is not there for our "defense" nor our protection. It apparently is there to siphon off our taxpayer money to greedy contractors and nothing more. They sure haven't done too great of a job "protecting" us, have they? Follow the $$$.

Another 'But but but Boooooooossssshhhh' distraction

1) How is it wealth redistribution to take less of a person's own earnings? And lord knows don't get me started on the bullshit of the progressive tax system in a country that says it is so set on the concept of equality
2) You will not get an argument from me on investigations into government spending, audits, etc...

But none of that takes away from the fact that the government does not exist to take over your PERSONAL responsibilities for you... that you are not entitled to a goddamn thing at the expense of someone else... and that you have all the same opportunities for food, clothing, health care, shelter, etc as anyone else. You simply have to do a little thing called earn it and pay for it yourself....

 

[Mr. Peepers]

How is it wealth redistribution to take less of a person's own earnings?

So, why do you neocons call it "wealth redistribution" to take less of my money for a change in taxes than a rich person's, hmmm???

 

[DiamondDave]

How is it wealth redistribution to take less of a person's own earnings?

So, why do you neocons call it "wealth redistribution" to take less of my money for a change in taxes than a rich person's, hmmm???

First.. try and understand what a neocon is and what a conservative is.. it might help you in any discussion you have on a political board

Less of a poorer person's money is taken than a rich person's in our tax system.... and when monies are taken from earners/contributors and given or redistributed to non-contributors (I.E. Medicaid, welfare, etc) it is indeed wealth redistribution

Try advocating equality in taxation... where the same % of every dollar earned is taxed the same way for every citizen.... if, that is, you actually believe in equality and equal treatment by government

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Less of a poorer person's money is taken than a rich person's in our tax system....

Not true. Not true at all. Poor people pay payroll taxes and pay out the nose for income taxes. Most cannot afford hight priced tax lawyers to find loopholes nor set up shell corporations. Wealth is taxed much less than income. Thus, someone "earning" a million a year in stocks gets taxed, what... maybe 15% of that? Meanwhile, I am taxed @ 40% when all is said and done... and I make less than 50K a year. You tell me that that is fair at all.

 

[The Rabbi]

But the theory is that it is not fair.
If a family makes $20,000 a year and they pay $2,000 that is a lot harder than someone who makes 200,000 and pays 20,000.
I'm not saying I agree with that (I don't). But progressive taxation has been the desirable outcome for much of our history for that reason.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

and when monies are taken from earners/contributors and given or redistributed to non-contributors (I.E. Medicaid, welfare, etc) it is indeed wealth redistribution

But it's not wealth redistribution when my 401K went up in smoke thanks to Wall St? Someone has all that money... Or that Dubya lied us into a war set up solely to make his buddies at halliburton rich? Some CEO has all that money... Or that most corporations eff up the world and pay people nothing and yet pay NO taxes? Sorry, but the poor and middle classes are the ones taking a beating. I am MUCH worse off than I was 8 years ago, monetarily. 2007-2008 were the worst years.


Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | U.S. | Reuters

 

[Againsheila]

To the neocommunists, if we give all of our money to government, the tent cities would disappear. We wouldn't have tent cities if the neocommunists walked the talk and started being charitable for a change.

<<<

1) I'm not a neocommunist.

2) Nobody said anything about giving the government all our money, that's just plain stupid.

3) A living wage for the lowest paid worker in the country isn't too much to ask in the richest nation in the world.

4) As a society, we have to provide for our disabled and unemployed or we are no better than the 3rd world nations who send their poor here to take our jobs and keep our wages low.

5) No society can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

 

[DiamondDave]

Less of a poorer person's money is taken than a rich person's in our tax system....

Not true. Not true at all. Poor people pay payroll taxes and pay out the nose for income taxes. Most cannot afford hight priced tax lawyers to find loopholes nor set up shell corporations. Wealth is taxed much less than income. Thus, someone "earning" a million a year in stocks gets taxed, what... maybe 15% of that? Meanwhile, I am taxed @ 40% when all is said and done... and I make less than 50K a year. You tell me that that is fair at all.

You are so absolutely so fucking wrong it is laughable

2007 Federal Tax Rate Schedules
Capital Gains Tax Rates: Tax Rates for Short-Term & Long-Term Capital Gains

And lest we forget the amount of all taxes that comes from the top 10% of earners, compared to the bottom 90%

Get a freaking clue

And I still don't see advocacy for complete equality in taxation from the likes of you... it's simple.. all you have to do is you support equal percentage taxation on every dollar earned by every citizen within the US.... thus advocating equality in treatment.... it's not that hard, I know you can do it.... that is, unless you are indeed one of those ones who is only for SELECTIVE equality when it benefits you, and stands for the punishment system of taxing those who earn more at a higher rate

 

[Againsheila]

Less of a poorer person's money is taken than a rich person's in our tax system....

Not true. Not true at all. Poor people pay payroll taxes and pay out the nose for income taxes. Most cannot afford hight priced tax lawyers to find loopholes nor set up shell corporations. Wealth is taxed much less than income. Thus, someone "earning" a million a year in stocks gets taxed, what... maybe 15% of that? Meanwhile, I am taxed @ 40% when all is said and done... and I make less than 50K a year. You tell me that that is fair at all.

You are so absolutely so fucking wrong it is laughable

2007 Federal Tax Rate Schedules
Capital Gains Tax Rates: Tax Rates for Short-Term & Long-Term Capital Gains

And lest we forget the amount of all taxes that comes from the top 10% of earners, compared to the bottom 90%

Get a freaking clue

And I still don't see advocacy for complete equality in taxation from the likes of you... it's simple.. all you have to do is you support equal percentage taxation on every dollar earned by every citizen within the US.... thus advocating equality in treatment.... it's not that hard, I know you can do it.... that is, unless you are indeed one of those ones who is only for SELECTIVE equality when it benefits you, and stands for the punishment system of taxing those who earn more at a higher rate

Once again, the top 10% own more wealth than the bottom 90% combined, they should be paying more than 90% of the taxes. Let's be fair.

 

[DiamondDave]

and when monies are taken from earners/contributors and given or redistributed to non-contributors (I.E. Medicaid, welfare, etc) it is indeed wealth redistribution

But it's not wealth redistribution when my 401K went up in smoke thanks to Wall St? Someone has all that money... Or that Dubya lied us into a war set up solely to make his buddies at halliburton rich? Some CEO has all that money... Or that most corporations eff up the world and pay people nothing and yet pay NO taxes? Sorry, but the poor and middle classes are the ones taking a beating. I am MUCH worse off than I was 8 years ago, monetarily. 2007-2008 were the worst years.


Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | U.S. | Reuters

If someone steals money or commits fraud (like me from a former employer called WorldCom), then that is criminal and not government wealth redistribution

And lest we forget that when investing in anything, you assume the risks for your choices... whether that be in stocks, 401K, or even a 0.5% savings account....

And quit the bullshit with the Bush Lied CRAPOLA.... it's so old and debunked... plus yet another in your string of 'But but but Booooooooooooosssshhh' distractions

 

[DiamondDave]

Not true. Not true at all. Poor people pay payroll taxes and pay out the nose for income taxes. Most cannot afford hight priced tax lawyers to find loopholes nor set up shell corporations. Wealth is taxed much less than income. Thus, someone "earning" a million a year in stocks gets taxed, what... maybe 15% of that? Meanwhile, I am taxed @ 40% when all is said and done... and I make less than 50K a year. You tell me that that is fair at all.

You are so absolutely so fucking wrong it is laughable

2007 Federal Tax Rate Schedules
Capital Gains Tax Rates: Tax Rates for Short-Term & Long-Term Capital Gains

And lest we forget the amount of all taxes that comes from the top 10% of earners, compared to the bottom 90%

Get a freaking clue

And I still don't see advocacy for complete equality in taxation from the likes of you... it's simple.. all you have to do is you support equal percentage taxation on every dollar earned by every citizen within the US.... thus advocating equality in treatment.... it's not that hard, I know you can do it.... that is, unless you are indeed one of those ones who is only for SELECTIVE equality when it benefits you, and stands for the punishment system of taxing those who earn more at a higher rate

Once again, the top 10% own more wealth than the bottom 90% combined, they should be paying more than 90% of the taxes. Let's be fair.

The wealthy STILL will pay more in TOTAL under an equal rate system.... but in terms of the current tax system, higher earners pay more in total AND more in rate... a practice in inequality, plain and simple

You want fair...???? Advocate fair.. and not unequal treatment

 

[DiamondDave]

But the theory is that it is not fair.
If a family makes $20,000 a year and they pay $2,000 that is a lot harder than someone who makes 200,000 and pays 20,000.
I'm not saying I agree with that (I don't). But progressive taxation has been the desirable outcome for much of our history for that reason.

Yes it is fair... justice is blind, as should be taxation....

The punishment/progressive system is the liberal guilt way of feeling better about yourself at the expense of someone else

And you want less in taxation... start eliminating government programs that have no business being in government

I don't see anyone saying that poor should pay less of a sales tax than the rich... or that the rich should pay $10 a gallon for milk so that the poor can pay $1...