An Observation

[garyd]

Bac the chief problem I have with your view is that it is so damn short sighted from a historical perspective. Islamic terrorism isn't new. In fact it predated the colonization of the Western hemisphere by at least 300 years. You ever hear of the hashishin from which the English word assassin ultimately derives? Mohhamed was a warrior every bit as much as a prophet, 5 of the first six Caliphs were mudered by other followers of Islam, and all of them were generals as much as religious leaders except possibly Mohhamed's immediate succesor who died too soon after taking the office for any one to be sure.

And lets not forget the doctrine of abnegation as seen in the Hadiths, which are at least as important to one's understanding of Islam as the Koran itself, and in which most of the worst doctrine's appear to be at least reinforced when not created out of whole cloth, pretty much means you can ignore whatever verses within the Koran you wish and take which ever one's you wish. Hence Osama doctrine of ever lasting war with the infidels is as justified as the view of those claiming that Followers should live in peace as the situation permits.

I do not hate all followers of Islam or for that matter any follower of Islam but I'd sure as hell like to know which version of Islam he follows before he moves in next door!

 

[editec]

Bac the chief problem I have with your view is that it is so damn short sighted from a historical perspective. Islamic terrorism isn't new.

Indded, terrorism is a tried and true method of fighting. There's certainly nothing Islamic about it. Americans fought a war of terror against the Loyalists starting BEFORE 1776 and right through to the end of that war.

In fact it predated the colonization of the Western hemisphere by at least 300 years. You ever hear of the hashishin from which the English word assassin ultimately derives?

He was, if anything the Murder Incorporated of the Islamic world, you know. His assassin were FOR HIRE.

Mohhamed was a warrior every bit as much as a prophet, 5 of the first six Caliphs were mudered by other followers of Islam, and all of them were generals as much as religious leaders except possibly Mohhamed's immediate succesor who died too soon after taking the office for any one to be sure.

Yes, Mohammed was no pacifist and the mercuricuric rise of Islam from the backwater musing of desert tribes to a world wide religion was largely driven in that first century or so by the sword.

And lets not forget the doctrine of abnegation as seen in the Hadiths, which are at least as important to one's understanding of Islam as the Koran itself, and in which most of the worst doctrine's appear to be at least reinforced when not created out of whole cloth, pretty much means you can ignore whatever verses within the Koran you wish and take which ever one's you wish.

Much like I do when I discount the vast majority of what I read in the Christian Bible.

Hence Osama doctrine of ever lasting war with the infidels is as justified as the view of those claiming that Followers should live in peace as the situation permits.

An asute observation, my friend. The Islamic world is no less a house divided thatn Christendom's is, I gather.

I do not hate all followers of Islam or for that matter any follower of Islam but I'd sure as hell like to know which version of Islam he follows before he moves in next door!

What a sensible fellow you are, gary.

 

[Modbert]

No no no no! They didn't have to get out of the way. They had to live side by side. The Arabs steadfastly refused to do that.

Go look up the nazi Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Sounds like peace to me.

 

[Modbert]

Spoils of war.

And which war was this? Last I checked, the Jews didn't fight WWII by themselves. No, I do believe it was America who won the war for the allies, without us they would of lost.

So technically, that land is ours.

But do humor me, which war was this that Israel won that automatically grants them to do whatever they want with the land and the people in it.

 

[Modbert]

Imagine for a minute native Americans deciding to retake the USA using terror tactics...they'd all be vaporized in a heartbeat.

Great example

The Native Americans would of been RIGHT to retake their land. We stole it, tricked them, and killed them for it.

What the fuck is with certain topics of the forum?

Does everybody decide to leave facts, common sense, and logic at the door?

 

[Ravi]

And which war was this? Last I checked, the Jews didn't fight WWII by themselves. No, I do believe it was America who won the war for the allies, without us they would of lost.

So technically, that land is ours.

But do humor me, which war was this that Israel won that automatically grants them to do whatever they want with the land and the people in it.

The Allies won the war and as such earned the right to do as they pleased. If it was the right choice or not hardly matters.

 

[WillowTree]

WE didn't do anything. None of us were Alive! I refuse to take the blame for something that happened before I was even born.

 

[Ravi]

Great example

The Native Americans would of been RIGHT to retake their land. We stole it, tricked them, and killed them for it.

What the fuck is with certain topics of the forum?

Does everybody decide to leave facts, common sense, and logic at the door?

I don't disagree with you but it isn't going to happen. And terrorist tactics are frowned upon these days...maybe if all the old tribes banded together and declared war they'd have a case.

 

[Modbert]

The Allies won the war and as such earned the right to do as they pleased. If it was the right choice or not hardly matters.

Never said whether it was the right choice.

So since the Allies won the war (U.S, U.K, Russia) being the main three.

France was merely us supplying them at that point.

So Russia and U.S decide to split up the land of Israel; they would be justified under your logic since it's a spoil of war.

Or, as an American I can go to Israel tomorrow and not pay anything since I have the right to do as I please.

 

[Modbert]

I don't disagree with you but it isn't going to happen. And when America considers it terrorist tactics are frowned upon these days...maybe if all the old tribes banded together and declared war they'd have a case.

I fixed what I bolded for you.

When America considers it terrorist tactics is when America considers it terrorism.

We had no problem in the 80's with giving Saddam weapons to go and kill Iran. (The same weapons he used to invade Kuwait with in the early 90's).

Nor did we have a problem with giving Iran weapons secretly to go and kill Iraq.

Oh, and of course nor did we have a problem with giving Afghanistan "Freedom Fighters" in the 80's who were fighting the Soviets. Who out of that group did we give CIA training and billions to? Osama Bin Laden and indirectly helped put the Taliban in power.

 

[Ravi]

So Russia and U.S decide to split up the land of Israel; they would be justified under your logic since it's a spoil of war.

Yes.

Or, as an American I can go to Israel tomorrow and not pay anything since I have the right to do as I please.

No.

 

[Modbert]

Yes.

No.

Now that is some screwy logic.

 

[Ravi]

I fixed what I bolded for you.

When America considers it terrorist tactics is when America considers it terrorism.

We had no problem in the 80's with giving Saddam weapons to go and kill Iran. (The same weapons he used to invade Kuwait with in the early 90's).

Nor did we have a problem with giving Iran weapons secretly to go and kill Iraq.

Oh, and of course nor did we have a problem with giving Afghanistan "Freedom Fighters" in the 80's who were fighting the Soviets. Who out of that group did we give CIA training and billions to? Osama Bin Laden and indirectly helped put the Taliban in power.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts. It isn't only America that judges what is a terrorist tactic, it is America and its allies. I'm not saying we aren't guilty of doing things wrong, just trying to be realistic. Terrorism is a non-state sponsored attack for the most part.

 

[Ravi]

Now that is some screwy logic.

Why? Once you give something away it no longer belongs to you.

 

[jillian]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts. It isn't only America that judges what is a terrorist tactic, it is America and its allies. I'm not saying we aren't guilty of doing things wrong, just trying to be realistic. Terrorism is a non-state sponsored attack for the most part.

If I can add to that, terrorism is an act of violence against an INTENDED CIVILIAN TARGET for the purpose of affecting political conditions.

 

[Annie]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts. It isn't only America that judges what is a terrorist tactic, it is America and its allies. I'm not saying we aren't guilty of doing things wrong, just trying to be realistic. Terrorism is a non-state sponsored attack for the most part.

Except that Hamas and Hizbollah are funded in large measure by Iran.

 

[Modbert]

If I can add to that, terrorism is an act of violence against an INTENDED CIVILIAN TARGET for the purpose of affecting political conditions.

And did America really think Saddam was going to stop at using the weapons on the military? Same thing for Iran and Osama.

Don't be naive, we gave them all weapons because we wanted them all to kill one another.

As far as I know, Saddam didn't even hate us until he realized we doublecrossed him by giving the Iranians weapons to go and kill him.

 

[Ravi]

Except that Hamas and Hizbollah are funded in large measure by Iran.

MAYBE. Regardless, Iran isn't attacking Israel and has not declared war on Israel so any and all attacks are terrorist attacks IMO.

 

[Modbert]

MAYBE. Regardless, Iran isn't attacking Israel and has not declared war on Israel so any and all attacks are terrorist attacks IMO.

No maybe, it's fact. Just like how so many of the weapons we've been finding on the dead terrorists in Iraq are made in Iran. Along with the roadside bombs.

Just like how the U.S gave weapons to Osama Bin Laden and crew to go and kill the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's.

Just like how the Soviets gave the NVA and VC weapons to kill the U.S. in Vietnam.

Just like how the Soviets gave North Korea weapons to kill the U.S. in North Korea.

Just like how the U.S. gave weapons to France to go and continue the fight during WWII.

I could go on, other countries have been funding groups or other countries in wars and fights for centuries now.

It's called indirect warfare.

 

[Annie]

MAYBE. Regardless, Iran isn't attacking Israel and has not declared war on Israel so any and all attacks are terrorist attacks IMO.

When their proxy does, so are they.