Affirmative Action -- A View: Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor

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Affirmative Action -- A View: Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor

29:15 into video: Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor

Lawrence Tribe

The fact is the deep debate between Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor about affirmative action is incredibly informative -- They both recognize that they have been the beneficiaries of race sensitive decision making by universities and to some extent by the government.

They come out very differently as to what they think about that:

Thomas says "It made me feel inferior all my life. Everywhere I go people say 'He's an affirmative action baby. He's there only because he's black. I feel excluded."

Sotomayor says "I understand that, but I feel very differently. I know that I wouldn't be where I am today, but for the benefits of affirmative action. -- I don't want anyone else to be denied that opportunity. It doesn't undermine my sense of self, my ego is intact."​

Dante rarely gets into discussions about race, because it is almost always a shouting match with bs coming from all sides. How about an intelligent discussion on Affirmative Action, by discussing two very similar yet very different stories?

Why do Thomas and Sotomayor feel the ways they do? What do you think their stories say about them and ultimately us -- society? Were you in either;s shoes, how would you see the world?

Better yet, what does it say about the world's they inhabit? Who makes Thomas feel this way, his conservative friends and allies, or his more liberal and progressive opponents? Is it something in his background, his aspirations and self identity -- his ego?

What about Sotomayor? Why does she feel the way she does? She does seem at all defensive about it, at least to me she doesn't?

One person is only thinking about himself and the other is thinking of the benefit to others. Its pretty much that simple as you already pointed out the reasons Thomas hates AA. Thomas needs to man up and stop worrying about what white people think of him.

"It made me feel inferior all my life. Everywhere I go people say 'He's an affirmative action baby. He's there only because he's black. I feel excluded."

Really? reading and comprehension 101. Thomas is speaking about himself as well as Sotomayor is. To imply that Thomas doesn't care what others would go through is ridiculously hateful

The context of it all carries the implication that it is about more than them personally. It is about affirmative action programs and they used their experiences to comment upon the issue. Both gave personal stories. stories that went to HOW it affected them personally

I disagree. Every time I have heard Thomas speak or write on it, the only concern is "I" and how someone else should feel based on how he feels. There is no option to let others have their own experience. Your quote of Sotomayor clearly states she is thinking of others.

"Sotomayor says "I understand that, but I feel very differently. I know that I wouldn't be where I am today, but for the benefits of affirmative action. -- I don't want anyone else to be denied that opportunity. It doesn't undermine my sense of self, my ego is intact."

Its a positive experience for her so she wants everyone to have the same opportunity. Thomas had his opportunity but now wants to deny others the same thing he himself used to get ahead.

You continually want to demonize Thomas, and that makes you tone deaf

have a nice day

You avoided the point your OP provided, Its pretty evident Thomas is so mentally injured by white racism he is trying to be more white then the whitest of white people.

 

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It appears to me that Sotomayor is less invested in what people think, and has a positive self image as well as confidence.

Thomas on the.other hand probably feels inferior for other reasons besides being a beneficiary of AA.

Affirmative action has less stigma on Hispanics than it does blacks. The assumption that a black person achieved a position due to racial quota rather than achievement is far more common than the belief that a Hispanic did.

 

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It appears to me that Sotomayor is less invested in what people think, and has a positive self image as well as confidence.

Thomas on the.other hand probably feels inferior for other reasons besides being a beneficiary of AA.

Affirmative action has less stigma on Hispanics than it does blacks. The assumption that a black person achieved a position due to racial quota rather than achievement is far more common than the belief that a Hispanic did.

I think thats just a reflection of your levels of racism.

 

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It appears to me that Sotomayor is less invested in what people think, and has a positive self image as well as confidence.

Thomas on the.other hand probably feels inferior for other reasons besides being a beneficiary of AA.

Affirmative action has less stigma on Hispanics than it does blacks. The assumption that a black person achieved a position due to racial quota rather than achievement is far more common than the belief that a Hispanic did.

Depends on where you live and when. Many New Yorkers think all Puerto Ricans are lazy bums

 

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Depends on where you live and when. Many New Yorkers think all Puerto Ricans are lazy bums

That may be, but as far as I know, AA is not normally associated with Puerto Ricans. I'm in Los Angeles, and it certainly is not associated with Mexicans. Whether used or not is a different story, but the stigma that some successful black people feel from the idea that others might think they didn't earn their positions and titles is not there among Hispanics.

 

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Depends on where you live and when. Many New Yorkers think all Puerto Ricans are lazy bums

That may be, but as far as I know, AA is not normally associated with Puerto Ricans. I'm in Los Angeles, and it certainly is not associated with Mexicans. Whether used or not is a different story, but the stigma that some successful black people feel from the idea that others might think they didn't earn their positions and titles is not there among Hispanics.

City of Los Angeles Economic Development Department

LatinoJustice PRLDEF - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most every Anglo, Asian and other (some Hispanics) I've ever met in the O.C. and LA County believes many unqualified Hispanic workers (especially in government jobs) have benefited by affirmative action. This applies to community colleges too.

 

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City of Los Angeles Economic Development Department

LatinoJustice PRLDEF - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most every Anglo, Asian and other (some Hispanics) I've ever met in the O.C. and LA County believes many unqualified Hispanic workers (especially in government jobs) have benefited by affirmative action. This applies to community colleges too.

Funny, I haven't found that at all.

Most that I know think that if one Hispanic gets a position of power - ONLY Hispanics will be hired from that point on - which is generally true (especially in government jobs) - but that isn't AA.

 

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Depends on where you live and when. Many New Yorkers think all Puerto Ricans are lazy bums

That may be, but as far as I know, AA is not normally associated with Puerto Ricans. I'm in Los Angeles, and it certainly is not associated with Mexicans. Whether used or not is a different story, but the stigma that some successful black people feel from the idea that others might think they didn't earn their positions and titles is not there among Hispanics.

BS. I spent some time in LA with my cousin and plenty of people associate AA with Mexicans. Thats pretty much the most common complaint I heard down there from whites who thought I would get a kick out of it.

 

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Ironically, those who benefit most from AA are women....white women.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

City of Los Angeles Economic Development Department

LatinoJustice PRLDEF - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most every Anglo, Asian and other (some Hispanics) I've ever met in the O.C. and LA County believes many unqualified Hispanic workers (especially in government jobs) have benefited by affirmative action. This applies to community colleges too.

Funny, I haven't found that at all.

Most that I know think that if one Hispanic gets a position of power - ONLY Hispanics will be hired from that point on - which is generally true (especially in government jobs) - but that isn't AA.

The power play is not unusual. Maybe you're arguing official aa policy? I would suggest aa is so engrained in our society, cities and towns appoint and select people with aa in mind. Is it their policy to do so all the time? There is no way to determine this, but we see time and time again when there are multiple candidates for a job or school slot -- a hispanic will jump to the head of the line

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Depends on where you live and when. Many New Yorkers think all Puerto Ricans are lazy bums

That may be, but as far as I know, AA is not normally associated with Puerto Ricans. I'm in Los Angeles, and it certainly is not associated with Mexicans. Whether used or not is a different story, but the stigma that some successful black people feel from the idea that others might think they didn't earn their positions and titles is not there among Hispanics.

BS. I spent some time in LA with my cousin and plenty of people associate AA with Mexicans. Thats pretty much the most common complaint I heard down there from whites who thought I would get a kick out of it.

I've spent 6 1/2 years here and being an outsider/newcomer I get away with saying and asking questions others avoid like the plague

 

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Ironically, those who benefit most from AA are women....white women.

probably because white women outnumber other minority sub sets and they are more apt to use teh system

what is ironic about that? Oh, maybe a racist baiter like you think affirmative action is only supposed to apply to minorities of color or natural origin or...

 

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Ironically, those who benefit most from AA are women....white women.

Or at least that's what the talking points from ThinkProgress have the drones programmed to claim...

 

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Ironically, those who benefit most from AA are women....white women.

probably because white women outnumber other minority sub sets and they are more apt to use teh system

what is ironic about that? Oh, maybe a racist baiter like you think affirmative action is only supposed to apply to minorities of color or natural origin or...

The irony is in the fact that AA was initially supposed to help people of color bridge the economic gap. White women benefiting the most from AA puts that income into a white home the majority of the time.

 

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Ironically, those who benefit most from AA are women....white women.

Or at least that's what the talking points from ThinkProgress have the drones programmed to claim...

Actually its a documented fact.

 

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The power play is not unusual. Maybe you're arguing official aa policy? I would suggest aa is so engrained in our society, cities and towns appoint and select people with aa in mind. Is it their policy to do so all the time? There is no way to determine this, but we see time and time again when there are multiple candidates for a job or school slot -- a hispanic will jump to the head of the line

I don't disagree that it's used, but the question regarded the taint of AA - why Thomas would resent the assumption that it was the reason he rose to power, and Sotomayor does not.

It's ironic really, Obama would only consider Hispanic women when he was selecting Sotomayor. Hispanic isn't a race, and Sotomayor is as white as they come, but there is a very racist edge to her appointment. Obama sought to buy the Hispanic vote.

Some compare Obama to Stalin, some to Hitler. These are wrong though, Obama is much closer to Rodrigo Borgea in his actions and political views.

 

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probably because white women outnumber other minority sub sets and they are more apt to use teh system

what is ironic about that? Oh, maybe a racist baiter like you think affirmative action is only supposed to apply to minorities of color or natural origin or...

Yes, white women are such a large "minority" that they outnumber white men...

 

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The power play is not unusual. Maybe you're arguing official aa policy? I would suggest aa is so engrained in our society, cities and towns appoint and select people with aa in mind. Is it their policy to do so all the time? There is no way to determine this, but we see time and time again when there are multiple candidates for a job or school slot -- a hispanic will jump to the head of the line

I don't disagree that it's used, but the question regarded the taint of AA - why Thomas would resent the assumption that it was the reason he rose to power, and Sotomayor does not.

It's ironic really, Obama would only consider Hispanic women when he was selecting Sotomayor. Hispanic isn't a race, and Sotomayor is as white as they come, but there is a very racist edge to her appointment. Obama sought to buy the Hispanic vote.

Some compare Obama to Stalin, some to Hitler. These are wrong though, Obama is much closer to Rodrigo Borgea in his actions and political views.

You need to get your eyes checked. Sotomayor is not by any stretch of the imagination white.
Chica is from the hood.

 

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You need to get your eyes checked. Sotomayor is not by any stretch of the imagination white.
Chica is from the hood.

She's Puerto Rican, Asslips.

So, you think she has lot's of Indian blood?

 

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You need to get your eyes checked. Sotomayor is not by any stretch of the imagination white.
Chica is from the hood.

She's Puerto Rican, Asslips.

So, you think she has lot's of Indian blood?

Make up your mind. You said she was white you fucking idiot.
Does she look white to you?