Addicts Should Be Able to Shoot Up Legally in Safe-Injection Facilities

[EverCurious]

I think the tax payer has ultimately /always/ paid for these drugs one way or another. If it's not some tax payer funded EBT paying, then it's some tax payers property being stolen and sold to pay for it.

Legalize and the black market bottom falls out and prices dump, less property crime, auto theft, less jail space needed, maybe gangs dry up too. Build the wall as well and we could /seriously/ clean up American streets. We'd be left with ill-funded "gangs" who basically just run prostitution rings and/or steal cars & TVs. A bit less dangerous variety of criminal because there's not as much money in two-bit thievery and questionable whores. Once we kill the "lifestyle" that gives them enough money to be famous, I suspect many people will be less interested in the whole drug/gang/criminal scene from the word go.

The black market would still exist just as it does for marijuana. You get a better quality and pay less from the street.

Disagree, with experience. Pot was legal up here until 1992 when the fed forced us into criminalizing. There was no "black market" pot, it was all MTF from the valley - as a matter of pride. The "black market" only came about during the war on drugs, after criminalization.

Despite having voted to legalize like two or three years ago, the city is just now getting the shit straight for legit businesses in Anchorage. They've dragged it out as long as they could, and even still, there wasn't really a black market for pot, only synthetic pot and harder drugs. Most Anchorage folks are patiently waiting for the city to get their heads out of their assess.

I'm waiting to evaluate the effects of the legalization and marketing of pot on the prevalence of other drugs, when I was in HS other drugs were kept out of the city by "Alaska Grown" pride; something we Alaskan's /still/ retain even after a decade plus of it being illegal. I believe we're going to see a decrease of drug crime personally. And for the record, no, I don't smoke pot, I decided to quit back in HS, long before it even became illegal.

EDIT- got out on a bit of a rant there, but I mean, no black market for pot is going to survive, because you can literally grow the stuff in the kitchen window - it's a weed, seriously, it grows like crazy up here - farmers burn the shit because it'll take over the field if they're not careful heh

 

[Disir]

I think the tax payer has ultimately /always/ paid for these drugs one way or another. If it's not some tax payer funded EBT paying, then it's some tax payers property being stolen and sold to pay for it.

Legalize and the black market bottom falls out and prices dump, less property crime, auto theft, less jail space needed, maybe gangs dry up too. Build the wall as well and we could /seriously/ clean up American streets. We'd be left with ill-funded "gangs" who basically just run prostitution rings and/or steal cars & TVs. A bit less dangerous variety of criminal because there's not as much money in two-bit thievery and questionable whores. Once we kill the "lifestyle" that gives them enough money to be famous, I suspect many people will be less interested in the whole drug/gang/criminal scene from the word go.

The black market would still exist just as it does for marijuana. You get a better quality and pay less from the street.

Disagree, with experience. Pot was legal up here until 1992 when the fed forced us into criminalizing. There was no "black market" pot, it was all MTF from the valley - as a matter of pride. The "black market" only came about during the war on drugs, after criminalization.

Despite having voted to legalize like two or three years ago, the city is just now getting the shit straight for legit businesses in Anchorage. They've dragged it out as long as they could, and even still, there wasn't really a black market for pot, only synthetic pot and harder drugs. Most Anchorage folks are patiently waiting for the city to get their heads out of their assess.

I'm waiting to evaluate the effects of the legalization and marketing of pot on the prevalence of other drugs, when I was in HS other drugs were kept out of the city by "Alaska Grown" pride; something we Alaskan's /still/ retain even after a decade plus of it being illegal. I believe we're going to see a decrease of drug crime personally. And for the record, no, I don't smoke pot, I decided to quit back in HS, long before it even became illegal.

EDIT- got out on a bit of a rant there, but I mean, no black market for pot is going to survive, because you can literally grow the stuff in the kitchen window - it's a weed, seriously, it grows like crazy up here - farmers burn the shit because it'll take over the field if they're not careful heh

For the record, I wasn't even going there.

Inside Colorado's booming black market for marijuana | CBC News

Despite Legalization, Marijuana Black Market Hides In Plain Sight

And that's just production. That's not even street dealers.

Marijuana isn't heroin or meth and it's not going to change the usage. People have a tendency to think that all of the problems with opiates center around prescription drugs. That isn't true. For at least the last 10 years people have been able to snort heroin, They move to smoking it and then to injecting it. Meth is pretty much the same. You won't ever see meth heads go, "Holy crap! We should use marijuana instead of meth because it's legal."
KRDO Investigates: Meth & heroin use in Pueblo more than doubles

Meth use makes comeback in Colorado as opioid epidemic worsens

Oregon meth-related deaths higher than ever as opioid deaths decline

The thing is this didn't make a comeback. It is simply that prescription drugs took center stage even while this was ongoing and the media refused to acknowledge it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Personal addiction .. personal habits of any kind, shouldn't be causing a burden on the taxpayer.

On principle, I oppose both the criminalization of recreational drugs as well as tax-payer funding of any rehab programs.

You oppose criminalization of all drugs? It’s not like addicts are only harming themselves

I agree with him.

It's not like drunks are only harming themselves but criminalizing alcohol made it worse just as criminalizing drugs is making it worse.

We can still prosecute those who do harm to others while letting those who choose to abuse drugs to do so legally and pay the consequences.

Trying to have it both ways has failed long ago.

But that’s also a cost burden on society. If all drugs become legal, more people are going to do them, resulting in more and more crime

That is an assumption with no evidence nor is it very logical.

It turns out that when prohibition ended and alcohol became legal use and abuse of alcohol did not suddenly increase in fact the opposite happened. Of course this did last forever and alcohol consumption and related problems increased dramatically during WWII. However for a few years after legalization there were fewer rates of drunk driving and alcohol related injuries and illnesses.

Some people will do drugs most will not.

What prevents most people from doing so is that we simply know that use leads to bad consequences.

If prohibition would have lasted 100 years you would have seen a dramatic decrease in drunk driving from even its lowest levels.

13 years is nothing when you are talking about laws designed to affect the culture in more subtle ways.

That is absurd since laws did nothing to stop people from drinking

 

[Votto]

I would be OK with that if ....

The money to create and maintain those injection sites doesn't come from the taxpayer.

It'd cost the government many times less than the present situation.

Personal addiction .. personal habits of any kind, shouldn't be causing a burden on the taxpayer.

On principle, I oppose both the criminalization of recreational drugs as well as tax-payer funding of any rehab programs.

You oppose criminalization of all drugs? It’s not like addicts are only harming themselves

You have to understand, the DNC platform is about depopulation

That is why they support such issues as abortion, contraception, gay marriage, euthanasia, and refuse to put to death murderers who will continue to murder, etc. They think that overpopulation is a root cause of all our ills..

About 200 people die a day from all this, so they now want this drug use to be institutionalized and supported by government at taxpayer expense.

Even if they take the drugs "safely", their lives are already over. Just look in their eyes and see how they live. The drugs have taken completely over their lives. They are the walking dead, which is another reason the DNC wants this. They need more dead head voters.

What is odd is that they feign support for banning guns, but then, that issue is more about people begin able to protect themselves from murderers and drug users etc. In fact, if you do something about the drug running gun crime would decline substantially.

Meanwhile, more people die from illegal drugs than guns by more than double

 

[Soupnazi630]

I would be OK with that if ....

The money to create and maintain those injection sites doesn't come from the taxpayer.

It'd cost the government many times less than the present situation.

Personal addiction .. personal habits of any kind, shouldn't be causing a burden on the taxpayer.

On principle, I oppose both the criminalization of recreational drugs as well as tax-payer funding of any rehab programs.

You oppose criminalization of all drugs? It’s not like addicts are only harming themselves

You have to understand, the DNC platform is about depopulation

That is why they support such issues as abortion, contraception, gay marriage, euthanasia, and refuse to put to death murderers who will continue to murder, etc. They think that overpopulation is a root cause of all our ills..

About 200 people die a day from all this, so they now want this drug use to be institutionalized and supported by government at taxpayer expense.

Even if they take the drugs "safely", their lives are already over. Just look in their eyes and see how they live. The drugs have taken completely over their lives. They are the walking dead, which is another reason the DNC wants this. They need more dead head voters.

What is odd is that they feign support for banning guns, but then, that issue is more about people begin able to protect themselves from murderers and drug users etc. In fact, if you do something about the drug running gun crime would decline substantially.

Meanwhile, more people die from illegal drugs than guns by more than double

People will call you nuts.

But I think you have an interesting point.

Seems hard to prove beyond inferring your conclusion from what they stand for but it is worth considering.

The question is who wants to be the one to be depopulated.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Addicts Should Be Able to Shoot Up Legally in Safe-Injection Facilities

indeed and live in homeless huts all up and down the streets

and shit wherever they want on the sidewalks

like the do in san fran

great plan

That is a legitimate problem with no easy solutions. However, tacking on /more/ problems, criminal charges and what not, does nothing to get these people off the streets either.

wrong tacking on prison time without parole indeed does get junkies off the streets

 

[Votto]

I would be OK with that if ....

The money to create and maintain those injection sites doesn't come from the taxpayer.

It'd cost the government many times less than the present situation.

Personal addiction .. personal habits of any kind, shouldn't be causing a burden on the taxpayer.

On principle, I oppose both the criminalization of recreational drugs as well as tax-payer funding of any rehab programs.

You oppose criminalization of all drugs? It’s not like addicts are only harming themselves

You have to understand, the DNC platform is about depopulation

That is why they support such issues as abortion, contraception, gay marriage, euthanasia, and refuse to put to death murderers who will continue to murder, etc. They think that overpopulation is a root cause of all our ills..

About 200 people die a day from all this, so they now want this drug use to be institutionalized and supported by government at taxpayer expense.

Even if they take the drugs "safely", their lives are already over. Just look in their eyes and see how they live. The drugs have taken completely over their lives. They are the walking dead, which is another reason the DNC wants this. They need more dead head voters.

What is odd is that they feign support for banning guns, but then, that issue is more about people begin able to protect themselves from murderers and drug users etc. In fact, if you do something about the drug running gun crime would decline substantially.

Meanwhile, more people die from illegal drugs than guns by more than double

People will call you nuts.

But I think you have an interesting point.

Seems hard to prove beyond inferring your conclusion from what they stand for but it is worth considering.

The question is who wants to be the one to be depopulated.

in other words, I'm so crazy I'm sane?

LOL.

No, others have made this "crazy" observation. That is why the Left has been labeled the culture of death.

Next they want to change the economy to socialism. Then you will see heads really roll like they are in Venezuela currently.

 

[Silhouette]

The one thing addicts fear more than death is jail time. The reason for this is because addicts seek escape. Death is just another escape. It’s why preaching to them about death doesn’t sink in. They subconsciously WANT death: which is why they started using in the first place. At some point they said to themselves “who cares? Who wants to live anyway?”

Jail however is like their arch nemeses. It is the unthinkable torture. It is having to be alive & deal with reality without a numbing buffer or escape. Addicts fear jail more than anything. So when you remove jail from the equation, you remove the most powerful incentive for addicts to get clean. Jail has to be part of our nation’s plan for the addiction epidemic. Some form of incarceration away from substance access.

I envision a minimum security work camp with the drug dog making daily rounds. One on one counseling time blocs for every inmate at least once a week. Group sessions too, but one on one stuff is necessary & hopefully the family of origin/ important contacts come in for special sessions to confront enabling/relapse.

Removing jail from addiction is like society committing the biggest enabling fuck up ever. They say and it’s true, drugs don’t kill addicts, enablers do.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It's been successful in hundreds of cities in Europe and Canada.

Addicts Should Be Able to Shoot Up Legally in Safe-Injection Facilities

To fight the opioid crisis, let users shoot up under medical supervision

Annual opioid fatalities have now surpassed the yearly number of deaths from AIDS at the height of that epidemic in the mid-1990s. In 2016 drug overdose deaths numbered 63,000, more than the U.S. death toll from the entire Vietnam War. The trend is terrifying: the problem is getting worse each year.

Cities and states reeling from opioid deaths need to give serious consideration to setting up safe injection rooms, which could significantly reduce fatalities. These are places where a drug user can go to consume illegal drugs under the supervision of health workers. They have been used in Europe, Canada and Australia for decades, and evidence and experience have shown that they are very effective. This may not seem like an obvious way to fight an abuse epidemic, but few other options exist. In the U.S., many cities' efforts to establish such sites have stalled, but now multiple cities have plans to open the country's first officially sanctioned injection sites. Philadelphia expects to do so in 2019. San Francisco, too, hopes to overcome legal and siting obstacles and open its first facilities this year. New York City's mayor has also endorsed setting up multiple sites at current needle-exchange programs.
<more>

Who pays for it and who cleans it up? And if we went that far, why not give them the dope to? Not being a smart ass, but I have a hard time believing all those pinheads die from an OD. Much of it is bad drugs to. I could go for that if the facilities are discreet, and out of the way and the IV drug users have to do more then just shoot up, puke, shit on the sidewalk then go about hunting their next score. I just don’t think tax payer money should be used for it.

^^
from the OP, obviously they are supplied safe drugs bought by you.

So on the one hand we have many experts in addiction and substance abuse telling us that we are not doing an addict any good if we act as an enabler. And many of these experts are funded publically. They usually refer to family and friends of addicts. I happen to agree with them. I think the numbers are such that everyone has a loved one or friend who has destroyed their life with drugs. I know I have had the scourge hit my family and my experiences are typical.

On the other hand we now have the state wanting to be an enabler. I need you to explain why the government should be able to do what is clearly a bad idea for anyone else to do.

If drugs are illegal to buy and sell how do we justify the government breaking it's own laws to do something which it tells us is a bad idea?

I know you have pointed to cost savings in the long run but I see no evidence of this. Rather than asserting some evidence would be nice.

 

[Rustic]

Rehab is for quitters

 

[Silhouette]

So on the one hand we have many experts in addiction and substance abuse telling us that we are not doing an addict any good if we act as an enabler. And many of these experts are funded publically. They usually refer to family and friends of addicts. I happen to agree with them. I think the numbers are such that everyone has a loved one or friend who has destroyed their life with drugs. I know I have had the scourge hit my family and my experiences are typical....On the other hand we now have the state wanting to be an enabler. I need you to explain why the government should be able to do what is clearly a bad idea for anyone else to do.

If drugs are illegal to buy and sell how do we justify the government breaking it's own laws to do something which it tells us is a bad idea?

I know you have pointed to cost savings in the long run but I see no evidence of this. Rather than asserting some evidence would be nice.

Wow, it's like you read my mind (or my post?): CA Manifests Assisted-Suicide Of Drug Addicts Via Enabling Policy-Blunders

 

[Crixus]

It's been successful in hundreds of cities in Europe and Canada.

Addicts Should Be Able to Shoot Up Legally in Safe-Injection Facilities

To fight the opioid crisis, let users shoot up under medical supervision

Annual opioid fatalities have now surpassed the yearly number of deaths from AIDS at the height of that epidemic in the mid-1990s. In 2016 drug overdose deaths numbered 63,000, more than the U.S. death toll from the entire Vietnam War. The trend is terrifying: the problem is getting worse each year.

Cities and states reeling from opioid deaths need to give serious consideration to setting up safe injection rooms, which could significantly reduce fatalities. These are places where a drug user can go to consume illegal drugs under the supervision of health workers. They have been used in Europe, Canada and Australia for decades, and evidence and experience have shown that they are very effective. This may not seem like an obvious way to fight an abuse epidemic, but few other options exist. In the U.S., many cities' efforts to establish such sites have stalled, but now multiple cities have plans to open the country's first officially sanctioned injection sites. Philadelphia expects to do so in 2019. San Francisco, too, hopes to overcome legal and siting obstacles and open its first facilities this year. New York City's mayor has also endorsed setting up multiple sites at current needle-exchange programs.
<more>

Who pays for it and who cleans it up? And if we went that far, why not give them the dope to? Not being a smart ass, but I have a hard time believing all those pinheads die from an OD. Much of it is bad drugs to. I could go for that if the facilities are discreet, and out of the way and the IV drug users have to do more then just shoot up, puke, shit on the sidewalk then go about hunting their next score. I just don’t think tax payer money should be used for it.

^^
from the OP, obviously they are supplied safe drugs bought by you.

Not me, I don’t live there. Honestly, if it was medical grade dope, which methadone is, cool.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I think the tax payer has ultimately /always/ paid for these drugs one way or another. If it's not some tax payer funded EBT paying, then it's some tax payers property being stolen and sold to pay for it.

Legalize and the black market bottom falls out and prices dump, less property crime, auto theft, less jail space needed, maybe gangs dry up too. Build the wall as well and we could /seriously/ clean up American streets. We'd be left with ill-funded "gangs" who basically just run prostitution rings and/or steal cars & TVs. A bit less dangerous variety of criminal because there's not as much money in two-bit thievery and questionable whores. Once we kill the "lifestyle" that gives them enough money to be famous, I suspect many people will be less interested in the whole drug/gang/criminal scene from the word go.

The black market would still exist just as it does for marijuana. You get a better quality and pay less from the street.

You get a better quality and pay less from the street
well thats pretty debatable.....

 

[Soupnazi630]

It's been successful in hundreds of cities in Europe and Canada.

Addicts Should Be Able to Shoot Up Legally in Safe-Injection Facilities

To fight the opioid crisis, let users shoot up under medical supervision

Annual opioid fatalities have now surpassed the yearly number of deaths from AIDS at the height of that epidemic in the mid-1990s. In 2016 drug overdose deaths numbered 63,000, more than the U.S. death toll from the entire Vietnam War. The trend is terrifying: the problem is getting worse each year.

Cities and states reeling from opioid deaths need to give serious consideration to setting up safe injection rooms, which could significantly reduce fatalities. These are places where a drug user can go to consume illegal drugs under the supervision of health workers. They have been used in Europe, Canada and Australia for decades, and evidence and experience have shown that they are very effective. This may not seem like an obvious way to fight an abuse epidemic, but few other options exist. In the U.S., many cities' efforts to establish such sites have stalled, but now multiple cities have plans to open the country's first officially sanctioned injection sites. Philadelphia expects to do so in 2019. San Francisco, too, hopes to overcome legal and siting obstacles and open its first facilities this year. New York City's mayor has also endorsed setting up multiple sites at current needle-exchange programs.
<more>

Some other issues from your article.

The evidence of costs savings comes from analyses. I wonder who analyzed? Generally when government analyzes something it seems unreliable. When they say something will save money it never seems to work.

Another issue is a strange statement which claims many people were referred to addiction counseling and completed it.

The question is what happened after that? Completeing a course is not the same as defeating addiction. Did they complete the course and relapse shortly after? What is the long term success rate of these courses?

There seems to be a great deal of assertion that this is a wonderful idea. But few evidence based specifics.

 

[Votto]

We know what works. Just look to Singapore who sees drug usage drop every year. Now it is next to nonexistent.

Essentially dealers are shot on the spot. No court date, just drop them then and there. Next, the addict is arrested and, you guessed it, jail time. The addict gets 3 strikes and then out for good as they are locked away forever.

Now, I'm not suggesting we remove due process from the equation but what I am suggesting is that to win the war on drugs, we need to take draconian measures.

Unfortunately, the US is too liberal a society to embrace such measures, so people will have to continue to die at a clip of around 200 or more a day.

At the end of the day, the later is the most draconian. That is the irony of it all.