A Total Collapse Of The American Economy*

[Doctavian]

A Total Collapse Of The American Economy*

Do you think that there will be one ? And if so, ho long do you think that it will be until the collapse occurs.

* For a definition of a "Total Economic Collapse" lets use David Weidemer's** parameters. Which are: A stock market who's value is 10% of it's value at the start of the current year, an unemployment rate of 50% and a 80% decrease in the buying power of the dollar.

** David Weidemer is the economist who (unlike most every other economist) predicted most every aspect of the current "Great Recession." And he made his predictions, during the height of the soaring "housing based" economy. Weidmer authored the book "After Shock" about the Great Recession prior to it's occurring.

Sincerely,
Doctavian

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... dat's why she held on to her Confederate bonds.

 

[rdean]

A Total Collapse Of The American Economy*

Do you think that there will be one ? And if so, ho long do you think that it will be until the collapse occurs.

* For a definition of a "Total Economic Collapse" lets use David Weidemer's** parameters. Which are: A stock market who's value is 10% of it's value at the start of the current year, an unemployment rate of 50% and a 80% decrease in the buying power of the dollar.

** David Weidemer is the economist who (unlike most every other economist) predicted most every aspect of the current "Great Recession." And he made his predictions, during the height of the soaring "housing based" economy. Weidmer authored the book "After Shock" about the Great Recession prior to it's occurring.

Sincerely,
Doctavian

Republicans already brought down the economy under Bush. They thought if they could keep it going, they could get rid of the black guy in the WHITE House.

 

[Politico]

No.

 

[Toronado3800]

Nah. Did that even happen in England after WWII? That being the model I believe we are closest to.

 

[Katzndogz]

The model we are closest to is Greece. More people receiving government money and fewer people able to pay. More than that, the ones who are able to pay are refusing. Half the problem in Greece is caused by the Greek tax payers having lost faith in the integrity of the system refusing to pay taxes at all.

 

[Truthmatters]

GDP Accelerating to 2.9% Helping U.S. Overcome Sandy Woes - Bloomberg

 

[Doctavian]

FYI: Weidemer has predicted a "total collapse" of the American economy within the next 18 months.

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "With a $15T deficit, it needs to - it still gonna be a long time a-fore there's another surplus with the tax & spend politicians we got...

U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff
11/20/2012 - Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.

In fact, outside of that post-WWII era, the only time the deficit has fallen faster was when the economy relapsed in 1937, turning the Great Depression into a decade-long affair. If U.S. history offers any guide, we are already testing the speed limits of a fiscal consolidation that doesn't risk backfiring. That's why the best way to address the fiscal cliff likely is to postpone it. While long-term deficit reduction is important and deficits remain very large by historical standards, the reality is that the government already has its foot on the brakes. In this sense, the "fiscal cliff" metaphor is especially poor. The government doesn't need to apply the brakes with more force to avoid disaster. Rather the "cliff" is an artificial one that has sprung up because the two parties are able to agree on so little.

Hopefully, they will agree, as they did at the end of 2010, to embrace their disagreement for a bit longer. That seems a reasonably likely outcome of negotiations because the most likely alternative to a punt is a compromise (expiration of the Bush tax cuts for the top and the payroll tax cut, along with modest spending cuts) that could still push the economy into recession. Rather than applying additional fiscal restraint now, the government needs to make sure it sets the course for steady restraint once the economy emerges further from the deep employment hole that remains. In fact, a number of so-called deficit hawks are calling for short-term tax cuts to spur growth, rather than immediate austerity. From fiscal 2009 to fiscal 2012, the deficit shrank 3.1 percentage points, from 10.1% to 7.0% of GDP.

That's just a bit faster than the 3.0 percentage point deficit improvement from 1995 to '98, but at that point, the economy had everything going for it. Other occasions when the federal deficit contracted by much more than 1 percentage point a year have coincided with recession. Some examples include 1937, 1960 and 1969. President Obama hasn't gotten much credit for reining in the deficit, probably because a big part of the deficit progress has come from the unwinding of extraordinary government supports that he helped put in place. Stimulus programs have come and mostly gone; the end of stimulus to states led them to enact Medicaid curbs; jobless benefits in recent months have fallen by 50% since early 2010 (due to both job gains and extended benefits being exhausted).

TARP and the bailouts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac also make the deficit improvement look better, boosting the fiscal '09 deficit by about $200 billion more than in fiscal '12 (though the initial cost of TARP was overstated). Still, military spending is now on the decline due to fewer troops in Iraq and Afghanistan; Medicare costs rose 3% last year vs. the average 7% growth in recent years; and after the last year's Budget Control Act, excluding the automatic cuts set to take effect in January, nondefense discretionary spending is already on a path to shrink to 2.7% of GDP, well below the 3.9% average, notes the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Read More At IBD: U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff - Investors.com

 

[editec]

A Total Collapse Of The American Economy*

Do you think that there will be one ? And if so, ho long do you think that it will be until the collapse occurs.

* For a definition of a "Total Economic Collapse" lets use David Weidemer's** parameters. Which are: A stock market who's value is 10% of it's value at the start of the current year, an unemployment rate of 50% and a 80% decrease in the buying power of the dollar.

** David Weidemer is the economist who (unlike most every other economist) predicted most every aspect of the current "Great Recession." And he made his predictions, during the height of the soaring "housing based" economy. Weidmer authored the book "After Shock" about the Great Recession prior to it's occurring.

Sincerely,
Doctavian

I'm a big believer of the theory that the BLACK SWAN is no longer a possibility, but the ONLY possibility left to us.

This nation has done NOTHING to really change the circumstances that brought us the 2007/2008 depression.

All we did was refinance the BANKSTERS so that they can fuck things up again for the 5th time in the last 40 years.


XXXXXXX

And neither party has the BALLS to do that because both parties sup at their table.

I can sort of understand nobody stands up to them, of course

XXXXXXX
Our nation -- indeed! Western Civilization -- is RUN by criminals, folks.

The sooner we realize that they sooner we might be able to do something about it.

 

[midcan5]

Why is this in Tea party? Is this an acknowledgment that the tea party is full of Chicken Littles. What purpose does the sky is falling personality fulfill in our history? The end is always near and the cliff metaphor is played again daily.

Joe Bageant: Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball

"Yes, we have lived, and still live, extravagant lifestyles far above the rest of you. And so, my sincere thanks to all of you folks around the world working in sweatshops, or living on two bucks a day, even though you sit on vast oil deposits. And to those outside my window here in Mexico this morning, the two guys pruning the retired gringo's hedges with what look like pocket knives, I say, keep up the good work. It's the world's cheap labor guys like you -- the black, brown and yellow folks who take it up the shorts -- who make capitalism look like it actually works. So keep on humping. Remember: We've got predator drones." JB

 

[Intense]

Granny says, "With a $15T deficit, it needs to - it still gonna be a long time a-fore there's another surplus with the tax & spend politicians we got...

U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff
11/20/2012 - Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.

In fact, outside of that post-WWII era, the only time the deficit has fallen faster was when the economy relapsed in 1937, turning the Great Depression into a decade-long affair. If U.S. history offers any guide, we are already testing the speed limits of a fiscal consolidation that doesn't risk backfiring. That's why the best way to address the fiscal cliff likely is to postpone it. While long-term deficit reduction is important and deficits remain very large by historical standards, the reality is that the government already has its foot on the brakes. In this sense, the "fiscal cliff" metaphor is especially poor. The government doesn't need to apply the brakes with more force to avoid disaster. Rather the "cliff" is an artificial one that has sprung up because the two parties are able to agree on so little.

Hopefully, they will agree, as they did at the end of 2010, to embrace their disagreement for a bit longer. That seems a reasonably likely outcome of negotiations because the most likely alternative to a punt is a compromise (expiration of the Bush tax cuts for the top and the payroll tax cut, along with modest spending cuts) that could still push the economy into recession. Rather than applying additional fiscal restraint now, the government needs to make sure it sets the course for steady restraint once the economy emerges further from the deep employment hole that remains. In fact, a number of so-called deficit hawks are calling for short-term tax cuts to spur growth, rather than immediate austerity. From fiscal 2009 to fiscal 2012, the deficit shrank 3.1 percentage points, from 10.1% to 7.0% of GDP.

That's just a bit faster than the 3.0 percentage point deficit improvement from 1995 to '98, but at that point, the economy had everything going for it. Other occasions when the federal deficit contracted by much more than 1 percentage point a year have coincided with recession. Some examples include 1937, 1960 and 1969. President Obama hasn't gotten much credit for reining in the deficit, probably because a big part of the deficit progress has come from the unwinding of extraordinary government supports that he helped put in place. Stimulus programs have come and mostly gone; the end of stimulus to states led them to enact Medicaid curbs; jobless benefits in recent months have fallen by 50% since early 2010 (due to both job gains and extended benefits being exhausted).

TARP and the bailouts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac also make the deficit improvement look better, boosting the fiscal '09 deficit by about $200 billion more than in fiscal '12 (though the initial cost of TARP was overstated). Still, military spending is now on the decline due to fewer troops in Iraq and Afghanistan; Medicare costs rose 3% last year vs. the average 7% growth in recent years; and after the last year's Budget Control Act, excluding the automatic cuts set to take effect in January, nondefense discretionary spending is already on a path to shrink to 2.7% of GDP, well below the 3.9% average, notes the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

Read More At IBD: U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff - Investors.com

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[Intense]

Why is this in Tea party? Is this an acknowledgment that the tea party is full of Chicken Littles. What purpose does the sky is falling personality fulfill in our history? The end is always near and the cliff metaphor is played again daily.

Joe Bageant: Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball

"Yes, we have lived, and still live, extravagant lifestyles far above the rest of you. And so, my sincere thanks to all of you folks around the world working in sweatshops, or living on two bucks a day, even though you sit on vast oil deposits. And to those outside my window here in Mexico this morning, the two guys pruning the retired gringo's hedges with what look like pocket knives, I say, keep up the good work. It's the world's cheap labor guys like you -- the black, brown and yellow folks who take it up the shorts -- who make capitalism look like it actually works. So keep on humping. Remember: We've got predator drones." JB

I see two things here. Leftists throwing away money and Leftists blaming the Right for Leftist Policies that throw away money. Nothing new.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even the Cubans joined the Russians, ChiComs and Vietnamese in leaving failed Liberal economics. The US Left is economically to the Left of real Communists

 

[jillian]

Why is this in Tea party? Is this an acknowledgment that the tea party is full of Chicken Littles. What purpose does the sky is falling personality fulfill in our history? The end is always near and the cliff metaphor is played again daily.

Joe Bageant: Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball

"Yes, we have lived, and still live, extravagant lifestyles far above the rest of you. And so, my sincere thanks to all of you folks around the world working in sweatshops, or living on two bucks a day, even though you sit on vast oil deposits. And to those outside my window here in Mexico this morning, the two guys pruning the retired gringo's hedges with what look like pocket knives, I say, keep up the good work. It's the world's cheap labor guys like you -- the black, brown and yellow folks who take it up the shorts -- who make capitalism look like it actually works. So keep on humping. Remember: We've got predator drones." JB

I see two things here. Leftists throwing away money and Leftists blaming the Right for Leftist Policies that throw away money. Nothing new.

is that what you see? no reality either...

no bias there, hon.

 

[Intense]

Why is this in Tea party? Is this an acknowledgment that the tea party is full of Chicken Littles. What purpose does the sky is falling personality fulfill in our history? The end is always near and the cliff metaphor is played again daily.

Joe Bageant: Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball

"Yes, we have lived, and still live, extravagant lifestyles far above the rest of you. And so, my sincere thanks to all of you folks around the world working in sweatshops, or living on two bucks a day, even though you sit on vast oil deposits. And to those outside my window here in Mexico this morning, the two guys pruning the retired gringo's hedges with what look like pocket knives, I say, keep up the good work. It's the world's cheap labor guys like you -- the black, brown and yellow folks who take it up the shorts -- who make capitalism look like it actually works. So keep on humping. Remember: We've got predator drones." JB

I see two things here. Leftists throwing away money and Leftists blaming the Right for Leftist Policies that throw away money. Nothing new.

is that what you see? no reality either...

no bias there, hon.

The only thing in favor of your mathematics are those Countries that are faring so badly, in comparison, we look good. Your whole campaign was rooted in smear and false perception, Jillian. You fooled enough idiots to continue down this destructive path. Evidently, we have not suffered enough. Regardless, you own it. Make no mistake there. There is no substitute for "Value for Value". There is no substitute for "Virtue". You create a Culture of Dependency, another Generation, and they won't be able to wipe their asses, without help, be proud. For those who weren't fooled, by the free stuff, and the hype, Our Allegiance is still to doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. In that we take comfort. We mourn the stupidity of the Sell Outs, on both sides of the Aisle. Nothing is Free Jillian. Somebody always pays the price.

 

[freedombecki]

I see two things here. Leftists throwing away money and Leftists blaming the Right for Leftist Policies that throw away money. Nothing new.

is that what you see? no reality either...

no bias there, hon.

The only thing in favor of your mathematics are those Countries that are faring so badly, in comparison, we look good. Your whole campaign was rooted in smear and false perception, Jillian. You fooled enough idiots to continue down this destructive path. Evidently, we have not suffered enough. Regardless, you own it. Make no mistake there. There is no substitute for "Value for Value". There is no substitute for "Virtue". You create a Culture of Dependency, another Generation, and they won't be able to wipe their asses, without help, be proud. For those who weren't fooled, by the free stuff, and the hype, Our Allegiance is still to doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. In that we take comfort. We mourn the stupidity of the Sell Outs, on both sides of the Aisle. Nothing is Free Jillian. Somebody always pays the price.

We better find a few more metric tons of gold somewhere in the USA, and get rid of our debt with some creditors.

 

[jillian]

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... dat's why she held on to her Confederate bonds.

good luck with that, walt

 

[Michael.Paul]

It would be impossible to collapse to 10% of what our economy is now. That is the point of TBTF banks and a centrally planned economy, it puts results in a certain range both positively and negatively. Similar to circuit breakers at the stock exchanges the downward spiral is controlled to a certain degree. The nanny state knows how to keep its lifeblood alive.

 

[jillian]

I see two things here. Leftists throwing away money and Leftists blaming the Right for Leftist Policies that throw away money. Nothing new.

is that what you see? no reality either...

no bias there, hon.

The only thing in favor of your mathematics are those Countries that are faring so badly, in comparison, we look good. Your whole campaign was rooted in smear and false perception, Jillian. You fooled enough idiots to continue down this destructive path. Evidently, we have not suffered enough. Regardless, you own it. Make no mistake there. There is no substitute for "Value for Value". There is no substitute for "Virtue". You create a Culture of Dependency, another Generation, and they won't be able to wipe their asses, without help, be proud. For those who weren't fooled, by the free stuff, and the hype, Our Allegiance is still to doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. In that we take comfort. We mourn the stupidity of the Sell Outs, on both sides of the Aisle. Nothing is Free Jillian. Somebody always pays the price.

let me know where in your calculations you have proof that austerity works. near as i can tell austerity shrinks employment which shrinks income to the municipalities... which makes it harder to pay bills.