A serious question about Jewish history

[Indofred]

This list we know about, why is more interesting.
From a Muslim point of view, many of the social conditions seem to apply to Muslim populations today.
Perhaps an understanding of Jewish history can help us.

Even if it's no use, education is always worth some time.

 

[MHunterB]

This we know, why is more interesting.
From a Muslim point of view, many of the social conditions seem to apply to Muslim populations today.
Perhaps an understanding of Jewish history can help us.

Even if it's no use, education is always worth some time.

And that, especially the bold, is a very Jewish attitude.

 

[Intense]

On another thread I once stated that greed was in the hebrew DNA.

(Avarice would have been a better word to use)

If you read the Torah it says that Abraham was the wealthiest man of his time; same with Soloman, King David, and other chosen people notables. So yes, it is in their psyche, if not their biology

That being said, the Jews have a pejorative tendency to put themselves in societal positions to control their host nations money and economy.

It's been that way since Joseph was sold into slavey by his brothers and eventually ended up being Pharaohs head man in charge of Egypt's treasury.


And you can see that behavior right here in the U.S.

Just look at the last names of the heads of the top financial institutions or the heads of the Federal Reserve.


Anyway, once the "Chosen People" have an iron grip on their host nation's economy.

They start trying to destroy the customs and traditions of that nation to better position themselves. So they enter politics and the judicial system in order to help make the laws and give them even more power.

This behavior is easily evidenced right here in America. Just look at the leadership of any group advocating change of social morals and values; feminism, gay rights agenda, teachers unions, redefining marriage, etc. The heads of the advocating group or organization will most likely be a Jew.


This behavior follows the hebrew people no matter what country naively allows them to enter their land and set up shop.

After many years; eventually the indigenous people of the host country discover they are no longer in control of their nation, or their cultural destiny, and demand change. And drive the Jews out of their land. So the Jews seek another host country to give them refuge and start the process again.

This same senario has played out many times over many centuries..........

Unlike Sharia? Isn't more a lower aspect attributed to Human Nature to want to control and dominate? Don't we see is as the natural result even applied to Religion, Government, and Corporate interest who all want to control and dominate, as opposed to empower, at the lower levels, anyway? Isn't the urge to do this something each of us battle within ourselves, even?

 

[Desperado]

Why is it always the others fault? If you as a group, have been persecuted for 2000 years and have been expelled from most of the countries you have been in, don't you have to ask yourself as a group,
What are we doing wrong?

 

[Indofred]

This we know, why is more interesting.
From a Muslim point of view, many of the social conditions seem to apply to Muslim populations today.
Perhaps an understanding of Jewish history can help us.

Even if it's no use, education is always worth some time.

And that, especially the bold, is a very Jewish attitude.

Interesting.
Perhaps DNA is a factor as my family were Jewish until around 1900.
We came from France with Billy the basher some time after 1066.
The reason we converted to Christianity is lost in time but I ended up as a Muslim for my own reasons.
I'll bet that shocks a few people but it is true.
I am not greedy but I do have a Jewish nose. I'm often mistaken for an Arab but I have been busted once.
That was a very clever lass in a Muslim uni I lectured at in Purwokerto.

 

[RoccoR]

Sunni Man, et al,

I think you are a bit confused.

This is not at all like the Warrior Gene (MAO-A) or the God Gene (VMAT-2).

This is more related to the comparative analysis of other nation state leaders of the time and Human Motivation (ie Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs).

On another thread I once stated that greed was in the hebrew DNA.

(Avarice would have been a better word to use)

If you read the Torah it says that Abraham was the wealthiest man of his time; same with Soloman, King David, and other chosen people notables. So yes, it is in their psyche, if not their biology

That being said, the Jews have a pejorative tendency to put themselves in societal positions to control their host nations money and economy.

(COMMENT)

They may have been the wealthiest of people in their domain, but clearly not the wealthiest in all the realms.

Nor is it correct to say that they have a propensity to control the money, any more than the history of the Templars and money, or the British East Indian Company.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sunni Man]

The fall back position of the chosen people is that they are perpetual victims of the gentiles.

And blame it on a variety of reasons; envy, scapegoats, killing christ, self segregation, not eating pork, etc.

When in reality, the gentile peoples of the world have been the continual victims of Jewish behavior for centuries.

 

[ima]

On another thread I once stated that greed was in the hebrew DNA.

(Avarice would have been a better word to use)

If you read the Torah it says that Abraham was the wealthiest man of his time; same with Soloman, King David, and other chosen people notables. So yes, it is in their psyche, if not their biology

That being said, the Jews have a pejorative tendency to put themselves in societal positions to control their host nations money and economy.

It's been that way since Joseph was sold into slavey by his brothers and eventually ended up being Pharaohs head man in charge of Egypt's treasury.


And you can see that behavior right here in the U.S.

Just look at the last names of the heads of the top financial institutions or the heads of the Federal Reserve.


Anyway, once the "Chosen People" have an iron grip on their host nation's economy.

They start trying to destroy the customs and traditions of that nation to better position themselves. So they enter politics and the judicial system in order to help make the laws and give them even more power.

This behavior is easily evidenced right here in America. Just look at the leadership of any group advocating change of social morals and values; feminism, gay rights agenda, teachers unions, redefining marriage, etc. The heads of the advocating group or organization will most likely be a Jew.


This behavior follows the hebrew people no matter what country naively allows them to enter their land and set up shop.

After many years; eventually the indigenous people of the host country discover they are no longer in control of their nation, or their cultural destiny, and demand change. And drive the Jews out of their land. So the Jews seek another host country to give them refuge and start the process again.

This same senario has played out many times over many centuries..........

As opposed the wealthy muslim sheiks and what not? They keep all the money and for that, they let sharia flourish, so that the poorer arabs can at least get their frustration out by beating their women as prescribed in the koran.

 

[longknife]

I think, in antiquity, I came from their monotheist belief in society that worshiped multiple gods. The priest of other religions felt threatened and did what they could to turn their followers against those who espoused different beliefs and would not bow to theirs.

 

[varelse]

Jews have always been a clannish people, sine the days of the twelve tribes. On the one hand, this leads to very strong communities; on the other hand, it sets them apart as an alien nation within whatever country they settle, which leads to suspicion and mistrust of these aliens who show no desire to become a part of the larger nation.

History led many Jews to become involved in finance and similar trades that did not require large plots of land or real property. Nobody likes bankers and they get blamed in times of economic distress.

Then you have their religious texts- Torah, Talmud, etc- with some of their more controversial laws regarding outsiders and nonbelievers.

Then the Catholic church decided to use the death of Jesus as propaganda for its own ends.

One interesting aspect of this topic is relation between outbreaks of plague and persecution of the Jews.
See Black Death Jewish persecutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's from the spread of the plague that the association between Jews and rats originated.

Jews, like everyone else, would leave diseased cities. Those infected took the plague with them.

Among these refugees, bands of Jews were a recognizable group.

The deepest roots of Zionism- going back to the conquest of Canaan- also further complicate things, as Jews have historically placed themselves above the rest of humanity.

i mean, look at the muslims in europe, theey are well on their way to becoming accepted after perhaps a generation.

Not really... Not under the surface.

I can accept DNA giving someone a large nose or facial features that may well be common in a given group but I would find it harder to accept that as a cause of greed.

start here:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Sociobiology-New-Synthesis-Twenty-Fifth-Anniversary/dp/0674002350]Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, Twenty-Fifth Anniversary Edition: Edward O. Wilson: 9780674002357: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

 

[sealadaigh]

Why is it always the others fault? If you as a group, have been persecuted for 2000 years and have been expelled from most of the countries you have been in, don't you have to ask yourself as a group,
What are we doing wrong?

that is the beginning of a good, scientific approach to what is either the problem or the perceived problem. it is close to an objective approach.

i think you may find an answer in cultural anthropology, and mixed with other disciplines and you can do it without terms like "good" or "bad" but instead, what is the selective advantage for the culture to develope in this way and, perhaps, why has the culture failed to adapt wuth environmental or societal/social changes.

 

[GHook93]

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SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is NOT a thread about Israel/Palestine nor a hate thread of any sort.
It isn't pro Muslim, anti Christian or anti Jewish.
I don't want rubbish about the Palestine/Israel conflict or any modern arguments of any type.

I'm looking for a real answer to a serious question.

Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism

This link is to a Jewish site that lists various horrors that have been done to Jews over the last couple of thousand years.
They've been kicked out, enslaved, massacred, mutilated, burnt alive, forced to convert to Christianity and generally abused where ever they've settled.

All said and done, they've been given a pretty crap time of it.
So, my question is, what caused so much hate in all these places?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again - SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The answer is simple. Much like the Armenians in Ottoman Empire, the Jews are always a small, but very successful minority class. They work hard and make money as a group and they strikes a cord of envy with the majority (that turns into anger) that is not so successful as group. On top of that for the majority of their history their homeland was occupied by others Assyrians, Babloyians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and British, so they had no state protecting them. Jews were persecuted throughout Europe for their small numbers and their identifiable success, esp in money-lending. Then toss in things like the black death, poverty etc and people look for a target to blame. The successful identifable minority is a good target. So stories emerge no matter how untrue they might be, like the blood libel for example.

Jewish persecution in ancient times, by the Egyptians (they enslaved many people and civilization throughout that time period enslaved many people) and by the Assyrians, Persians (who were good to the Jews), Greeks and Babloyians (all these were invading armies that conquered the subject people - which is common throughout ancient history) .

Persecution by Arab/Muslim countries is even simpler, Arabs/Muslims have been xenophobic towards religious minorities from it's inception. Mohommad was a warlord jingoist that sought to spread Islam by the sword an in fact started the first muslim crusade (Caliphates) and took over the entire middle east, killing all those who didn't submit to the will of Islam. Jews, like Christians, were persecuted, because Islam dictates persecution of all non-Muslims!

 

[ima]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is NOT a thread about Israel/Palestine nor a hate thread of any sort.
It isn't pro Muslim, anti Christian or anti Jewish.
I don't want rubbish about the Palestine/Israel conflict or any modern arguments of any type.

I'm looking for a real answer to a serious question.

Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism

This link is to a Jewish site that lists various horrors that have been done to Jews over the last couple of thousand years.
They've been kicked out, enslaved, massacred, mutilated, burnt alive, forced to convert to Christianity and generally abused where ever they've settled.

All said and done, they've been given a pretty crap time of it.
So, my question is, what caused so much hate in all these places?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again - SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The answer is simple. Much like the Armenians in Ottoman Empire, the Jews are always a small, but very successful minority class. They work hard and make money as a group and they strikes a cord at the envy of the majority that is not so successful as group. On top of that for the majority of their history their homeland was occupied by others Assyrians, Babloyians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and British, so they had no state protecting them. Jews were persecuted throughout Europe for their small numbers and their identifiable success, esp in money-lending. Then toss in things like the black death, poverty etc and people look for a target to blame. The successful identifable minority is a good target. So stories emerge no matter how untrue they might be, like the blood libel for example.

Jewish persecution in ancient times, by the Egyptians (they enslaved many people and civilization throughout that time period enslaved many people) and by the Assyrians, Persians (who were good to the Jews), Greeks and Babloyians (all these were invading armies that conquered the subject people - which is common throughout ancient history) .

Persecution by Arab/Muslim countries is even simpler, Arabs/Muslims have been xenophobic towards religious minorities from it's inception. Mohommad was a warlord jingoist that sought to spread Islam by the sword an in fact started the first muslim crusade (Caliphates) and took over the entire middle east, killing all those who didn't submit to the will of Islam. Jews, like Christians, were persecuted, because Islam dictates persecution of all non-Muslims!

It's happened to other minorities as well, because humans are still not much more evolved then the caveman, just eat and conquer the weak. So the so called jewish persecution isn't unique to the Jews.

 

[sealadaigh]

Jews have always been a clannish people, sine the days of the twelve tribes. On the one hand, this leads to very strong communities; on the other hand, it sets them apart as an alien nation within whatever country they settle, which leads to suspicion and mistrust of these aliens who show no desire to become a part of the larger nation.

History led many Jews to become involved in finance and similar trades that did not require large plots of land or real property. Nobody likes bankers and they get blamed in times of economic distress.

Then you have their religious texts- Torah, Talmud, etc- with some of their more controversial laws regarding outsiders and nonbelievers.

Then the Catholic church decided to use the death of Jesus as propaganda for its own ends.

One interesting aspect of this topic is relation between outbreaks of plague and persecution of the Jews.
See Black Death Jewish persecutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's from the spread of the plague that the association between Jews and rats originated.

Jews, like everyone else, would leave diseased cities. Those infected took the plague with them.

Among these refugees, bands of Jews were a recognizable group.

The deepest roots of Zionism- going back to the conquest of Canaan- also further complicate things, as Jews have historically placed themselves above the rest of humanity.

i mean, look at the muslims in europe, theey are well on their way to becoming accepted after perhaps a generation.

Not really... Not under the surface.

I can accept DNA giving someone a large nose or facial features that may well be common in a given group but I would find it harder to accept that as a cause of greed.

start here:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Sociobiology-New-Synthesis-Twenty-Fifth-Anniversary/dp/0674002350]Sociobiology: The New Synthesis, Twenty-Fifth Anniversary Edition: Edward O. Wilson: 9780674002357: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

LOL...i was going to throw social biology into the mix when i mentioned cultural anthropology, but didn't want to get to edgey.

i think people have to take long, hard looks at things, such as attributing anti-semitism (if nthere really is such a thing to the extent being portrayed) to religion when it may have more to do with politics or culture.

 

[MHunterB]

The fall back position of the chosen people is that they are perpetual victims of the gentiles.

And blame it on a variety of reasons; envy, scapegoats, killing christ, self segregation, not eating pork, etc.

When in reality, the gentile peoples of the world have been the continual victims of Jewish behavior for centuries.

And what do you have besides your personal OPINION to support this contention?

 

[Sunni Man]

109 Locations whence Jews have been Expelled since AD250


YEAR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PLACE

250 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Carthage
415 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alexandria
554 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocèse of Clermont (France)
561 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Diocèse of Uzès (France)
612 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Spain
642 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Visigoth Empire
855 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
876 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sens
1012 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1182 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1276 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Upper Bavaria
1290 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - England
1306 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1322 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France (again)
1348 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Switzerland
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hielbronn (Germany)
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Saxony
1349 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1360 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1370 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Belgium
1380 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1388 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Germany
1394 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1420 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lyons
1421 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fribourg
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Zurich
1424 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cologne
1432 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savoy
1438 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1439 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Augsburg
1442 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1444 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1446 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - France
1453 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Breslau
1454 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1462 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1483 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mainz
1484 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1485 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vincenza (Italy)
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spain
1492 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Italy
1495 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1496 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Portugal
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nuremberg
1498 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Navarre
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenberg
1510 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prussia
1514 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Strasbourg
1515 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1519 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Regensburg
1533 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1541 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Naples
1542 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague & Bohemia
1550 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Genoa
1551 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria
1555 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pesaro
1557 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1559 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Austria
1561 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague
1567 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurzburg
1569 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Papal States
1571 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Netherlands
1582 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hungary
1593 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brandenburg, Austria
1597 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cremona, Pavia & Lodi
1614 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Frankfort
1615 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Worms
1619 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kiev
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ukraine
1648 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Poland
1649 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hamburg
1654 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1656 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lithuania
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Oran (North Africa)
1669 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1670 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Vienna
1712 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sandomir
1727 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1738 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Wurtemburg
1740 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Little Russia (Beylorus)
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prague, Bohemia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Slovakia
1744 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Livonia
1745 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moravia
1753 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Kovad (Lithuania)
1761 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bordeaux
1772 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Deported to the Pale of Settlement (Poland/Russia)
1775 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Warsaw
1789 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alsace
1804 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages in Russia
1808 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Villages & Countrysides (Russia)
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lbeck & Bremen
1815 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria
1820 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bremen
1843 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russian Border Austria & Prussia
1862 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Areas in the U.S. under General Grant's Jurisdiction[1]
1866 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Galatz, Romania
1880s - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Russia
1891 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Moscow
1919 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bavaria (foreign born Jews)
1938-45 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nazi Controlled Areas
1948 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Arab Countries

 

[MHunterB]

"Then you have their religious texts- Torah, Talmud, etc- with some of their more controversial laws regarding outsiders and nonbelievers."

Varelse, if one hasn't studied the texts IN CONTEXT, then the actual meanings are not going to be obvious.

I think you've unwittingly touched upon something there, though. And that is that the PERCEPTION of 'what's really in those books we can't read' is what is taken as 'fact' by far too many people. It takes time to learn a language, history, customs all thoroughly enough to put the ancient writings in context - AND it is also necessary to look at the 'official' religious interpretation given to the texts *by the Jewish People* to see what he actual ideas are.

I commonly see MANY distortions and gross inaccuracies within such 'secondhand' discussions purporting to be about Jewish belief and practice. One of which was an earlier statement in this thread? about 'death penalty' offenses in Judaism.

It was obvious that the poster was completely oblivious to the restrictions placed on actually carrying out any death penalty by a Sanhedrin..... I can't recall every single one off-hand but I can give you a few:
1) Two witnesses were required to have a)observed the commission of the crime, b)advised the accused that their action was a crime c) AND to have cited for the accused the CORRECT penalty. (which means if they told him it was a 'hanging' offense when it was a 'stoning' one - he walks!)

2) It's required to parade the accused through the streets before any attempted execution giving a synopsis of his crimes and the witnesses against him, and inviting the public to step forward with ANY new information or evidence which may possibly change the case. (Back to 'start' on the trial if anyone does respond)

3) The famous 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' quote from Jesus relates to this one: The 'stoning is not a mass mob scene, but each member of the court in a prescribed order (which I don't recall offhand) is to pick up and throw one stone. IF *anyone* in the line-up sets the stone down and announces "I now have doubts about his guilt", the stoning is officially over (and the accused walks)

When these 'failsafes' are factored in, it begins to explain why a Sanhedrin which actually executed ONE person in its 7-year term was known as 'the bloody Sanhedrin'.

As an aside - I have read all manner of vile allegations about 'tayyiqua' and 'jihad' in Islam. I have come to the conclusion that such noises are similar to the filth I have been seeing about 'chosen people' and suchlike.....

 

[MHunterB]

Sunni, that is not primary or direct 'evidence'. You are *interpreting* from it to conclude 'the reason is in Jewish behavior'.

Christianity and Islam regarding themselves as 'universal' truths is a far more specific explanation for those actions.

 

[Sunni Man]

If I had a friend that got divorced. I would just say, "hey things happen"

Then he remarried, but it turned into another divorce. I'd think.....just picked the wrong girl to marry.

Now if he married a third, forth, and fifth time; all ending in divorce.

Then I would start to think he must be the problem...... not the women he married.


Same with the Jews.

If they had only been expelled or driven out of only 2, 3, or 4 countries throughout history.

I wouldn't blame them....and just figure it was the gentiles problem.

But when you have the Jews tossed out of 109 countries.

Then there MUST be something the Jews are doing to cause the same reaction from people of various countries, with different cultures, languages, traditions, and even religions, kicking them out...........

 

[GHook93]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is NOT a thread about Israel/Palestine nor a hate thread of any sort.
It isn't pro Muslim, anti Christian or anti Jewish.
I don't want rubbish about the Palestine/Israel conflict or any modern arguments of any type.

I'm looking for a real answer to a serious question.

Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism

This link is to a Jewish site that lists various horrors that have been done to Jews over the last couple of thousand years.
They've been kicked out, enslaved, massacred, mutilated, burnt alive, forced to convert to Christianity and generally abused where ever they've settled.

All said and done, they've been given a pretty crap time of it.
So, my question is, what caused so much hate in all these places?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again - SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
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The answer is simple. Much like the Armenians in Ottoman Empire, the Jews are always a small, but very successful minority class. They work hard and make money as a group and they strikes a cord at the envy of the majority that is not so successful as group. On top of that for the majority of their history their homeland was occupied by others Assyrians, Babloyians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and British, so they had no state protecting them. Jews were persecuted throughout Europe for their small numbers and their identifiable success, esp in money-lending. Then toss in things like the black death, poverty etc and people look for a target to blame. The successful identifable minority is a good target. So stories emerge no matter how untrue they might be, like the blood libel for example.

Jewish persecution in ancient times, by the Egyptians (they enslaved many people and civilization throughout that time period enslaved many people) and by the Assyrians, Persians (who were good to the Jews), Greeks and Babloyians (all these were invading armies that conquered the subject people - which is common throughout ancient history) .

Persecution by Arab/Muslim countries is even simpler, Arabs/Muslims have been xenophobic towards religious minorities from it's inception. Mohommad was a warlord jingoist that sought to spread Islam by the sword an in fact started the first muslim crusade (Caliphates) and took over the entire middle east, killing all those who didn't submit to the will of Islam. Jews, like Christians, were persecuted, because Islam dictates persecution of all non-Muslims!

It's happened to other minorities as well, because humans are still not much more evolved then the caveman, just eat and conquer the weak. So the so called jewish persecution isn't unique to the Jews.

One of the few things you ever said with some truthfulness! What is unique of the Jewish people is how long they have survived without a homeland. Many many people like the Visgoth, Lombandis, Huns, Trojans, Mayans etc have come and gone from the earth, yet the Jews remain!