A serious question about Jewish history

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Indofred, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. Indofred
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    Indofred Guest

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    SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
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    This is NOT a thread about Israel/Palestine nor a hate thread of any sort.
    It isn't pro Muslim, anti Christian or anti Jewish.
    I don't want rubbish about the Palestine/Israel conflict or any modern arguments of any type.

    I'm looking for a real answer to a serious question.

    Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism

    This link is to a Jewish site that lists various horrors that have been done to Jews over the last couple of thousand years.
    They've been kicked out, enslaved, massacred, mutilated, burnt alive, forced to convert to Christianity and generally abused where ever they've settled.

    All said and done, they've been given a pretty crap time of it.
    So, my question is, what caused so much hate in all these places?

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    Once again - SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY as this is in CLEAN DEBATE for exactly that reason.
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  2. Lipush
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    Lipush Gold Member

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    Jews have been hated for many reasons. Many times Jews have been willing to separate themselves out of rest of community, so hoping being harmed less. they were simply "different" from the others, which at times was viewed in not so nice ways.
     
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  3. Indofred
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    An interesting thought but it doesn't really explain why the hate.

    BBC News - Q&A: Jews in Britain

    I'm trying to find unbiased sites in order to avoid stupid hate filled crap (that's not always easy) but this BBC article seems to go some way to explaining at least part of it.

    BBC News - Q&A: Jews in Britain

    Money lenders and tax collectors are never the most popular groups in any society so I wonder if that was enough to start hate stories.

    Now, if that proves a reasonable explanation, did the same conditions apply in other places in other times.

    As for separation, I believe that's always a negative to being understood.
    In the UK, there are Muslim 'ghettos' and not even close to enough mixing of the populations. I believe that is why there is so much mistrust and misunderstanding there.
    That in mind, did the Jews of the time live separately and, if that was the case, did that contribute to the problem?
     
  4. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    YOu can look for specific reasons specific to Jews, of course, but the real answer is the above.

    Peasants world-wide fear strangers.

    And if those strangers move in and aren't planning on leaving?

    Well, their fear inevitably becomes hatred.

    And strangers in the midst of an alien culture become very useful scapegoats that the masters can use to foist off the blame when things do south.
     
  5. Lipush
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    Lipush Gold Member

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    People tend to hate what they do not understand or can relate (to), or fear.

    As for being marchants and bankers, well, that may has something to do with it.

    Living separated from the others had many reasons. It is much easier to avoid hate of you AVOID hate by sticking together. It is much easier to stick together even without hate, because the man's nature is to like the ones similar to him and detach from those he see as different.

    it's also survival mechanism. Being so few, Jews at times didn't want to "mix" always with others, fearing the nation might mix "too much" and disappear. That's also something that can very much trigger hatred.

    Jews had different way of speech and different way of behaving at times. when you put all this together, well, the answer is clear.
     
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  6. MHunterB
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    MHunterB Gold Member

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    In fact, our relative acceptance by the US as 'just folks' is the exception. The 'universal' hatefulness against Jews doesn't testify to anything about Jews but about humans in general: ANY excuse for attacking a minority who maintain their 'difference' is a good one.

    Kashrut probably had a lot to do with it - after all, people the world 'round know that 'food is love'.

    "And whaddya mean, you won't eat part of this roast pig ???? It's a neighborhood barbecue - aren't you part of the neighborhood?"

    If people choose to feel insulted, they will then 'discover' a reason to justify that feeling. I say 'choose to', because mature individuals have the option of 'going with' a feeling, or pausing to assess 'where' that feeling is coming from......

    The more habitual such 'justifying feelings' is, the more any prejudices become entrenched.

    If one speaks to 'Vietnamese-Chinese' or other Han people who settled elsewhere in Asia, it's much the same. So if it's 'something about the Jews', it's 'something about the Chinese' as well......
     
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  7. Lipush
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    Lipush Gold Member

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    " ANY excuse for attacking a minority who maintain their 'difference' is a good one."

    I totally agree with you on that one.
     
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  8. Bill Angel
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    Bill Angel Gold Member

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    One interesting aspect of this topic is relation between outbreaks of plague and persecution of the Jews.
    See Black Death Jewish persecutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It's from the spread of the plague that the association between Jews and rats originated.
    See Anti-semitism and propaganda:Streicher, Goebbels and rats
     
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  9. martybegan
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    martybegan Platinum Member

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    This ties into one of the other reasons, is that people in power used them as a blame mechanism for when they had to placate the peseants.

    It allowed a convienent escape clause for the rulers at the time. "Dont be mad at ME, I'm trying to help, THEY are the cause of your problems."
     
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  10. Circe
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    Circe Silver Member

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    I think it's because they are smarter. Bred that way for millennia, fully 17 points average IQ difference in America alone (actually, the American difference is highest -- probably reflecting the fact that the smartest immigrated, especially during the 1930s in Germany). (ref: "The Bell Curve," by Herrenstein and Murray.)

    Being smarter results in a lot of problems for a society when Jews stop being restricted by law or common agreement in the culture.

    Germany stopped the laws against Jewish employment in 1875, IIRC, and that resulted in a rapid replacement of native Germans in universities and medicine and corporations and the arts. And so Germany changed from highly tolerant in 1900 to the very angry "Jews Are the Enemy" attitude of the 1930s.

    The same thing has happened here --- Jews dominate the higher intellectual ranks of all employment -- but we have so far been accepting of that.

    117 IQ is a HUGE difference from average 100 in terms of how well a population does. Obviously 117 by itself is not enough to work at a high level: that requires upper 120s at the least. But the higher the average, the more people available in a population that have much higher IQs. That's what is going on. The proportion of people who have the IQ to become doctors is just much higher in Jews because they start at a higher population average IQ.

    This causes envy; I suspect envy is at least equal to xenophobia in being a problem for outgroups in societies. Nobody envies the poor underclass, so there is less prejudice against blacks and Hispanics, overall. People are prejudiced against the crime and don't like them looking different, but there is no envy.
     

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