Zone1 A question for Jews

[surada]

No. Psalms 2 is not Hezekiah. Isaiah 9 is.

Of course. We have been discussing Isaiah.

 

[rosends]

Of course. We have been discussing Isaiah.

yes, but that specific question was about Psalms 2:7 so I was just answering that local question.

 

[theHawk]

Read Hosea.

Bible Gateway Hosea 11 :: NIV

No where does God say he begot a son.

 

[theHawk]

And yet God used that wording (begotten) in reference to David. Would you rather explain that God used that word in reference to Harry Potter, or some other character absent from the book of Psalms?

Wrong. David was begotten by Jesse. Jesse was not God.

 

[surada]

yes, but that specific question was about Psalms 2:7 so I was just answering that local question.

Chapter 34 - YOU ARE MY SON

Psalms 2:7 The concept of physical sonship with God the Father is not found in biblical theology or in first century Judaism.

jewsforjudaism.org

Yes, David is called God's son. Hosea calls Israel God's son.

God wouldn't have to tell Jesus.

 

[rosends]

Wrong. David was begotten by Jesse. Jesse was not God.

This is true. God doesn't have human children. It almost seems that the text can't be taken literally.

 

[rosends]

Chapter 34 - YOU ARE MY SON

Psalms 2:7 The concept of physical sonship with God the Father is not found in biblical theology or in first century Judaism.

jewsforjudaism.org

Yes, David is called God's son. Hosea calls Israel God's son.

God wouldn't have to tell Jesus.

IIRC the Nation of Israel is also called God's children and Solomon is called God’s son also.

 

[surada]

I have to say, it’s surprising how some folks here make up stuff in order to discredit Jesus being the Messiah.

Some claim that the title “Son of Man”, which Jesus preferred to use himself, does not refer to being divine. That the prophecies foretold in books such as Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc were only referring to a normal human that would be a king.

Yet in the New Testament, at the trial of Jesus, the High Priests asked him:

"I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?" They answered and said, "He is deserving of death."

Now here the priest asks if he is “the Christ”, which is the Messiah, and adds “the Son of God”.

If the Messiah/Christ was to be a “regular human being” and not divine, why would the priest ask this?

Then when Jesus says he is, and they will see “the Son of Man” sitting at the right hand of the Power, coming on the clouds of heaven, the priest loses his shit and tears his own clothes off and cries blasphemy. Jesus was referencing Daniel, which some folks here claim was not a real prophet. But if that was true then why did the high priest scream blasphemy about its reference then? If Daniel was just some “story” based off some ancient poem, why would the high priest lose his mind and demand Jesus be put to death?

Daniel ch7:
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] comingwith the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.


I know reading New Testament is like burning your own eyeballs out for certain people, but can these Christ-deniers explain this paradox?

The Messiah expected by the Jews was an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews..... like king David.

 

[surada]

IIRC the Nation of Israel is also called God's children and Solomon is called God’s son also.

I know. In Hosea God calls Israel (collectively) his son.

 

[theHawk]

The Messiah expected by the Jews was an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews..... like king David.

Pretty dumb assumption, eh? The Messiah is just going to lead an army to kill everyone?

 

[surada]

Pretty dumb assumption, eh? The Messiah is just going to lead an army to kill everyone?

Just the Romans who were occupying Israel or the Greeks who defiled the temple.

 

[surada]

theHawk

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

Bible Gateway Hosea 11 :: NIV

 

[HaShev]

I have to say, it’s surprising how some folks here make up stuff in order to discredit Jesus being the Messiah.

Some claim that the title “Son of Man”, which Jesus preferred to use himself, does not refer to being divine. That the prophecies foretold in books such as Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc were only referring to a normal human that would be a king.

Yet in the New Testament, at the trial of Jesus, the High Priests asked him:

"I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?" They answered and said, "He is deserving of death."

Now here the priest asks if he is “the Christ”, which is the Messiah, and adds “the Son of God”.

If the Messiah/Christ was to be a “regular human being” and not divine, why would the priest ask this?

Then when Jesus says he is, and they will see “the Son of Man” sitting at the right hand of the Power, coming on the clouds of heaven, the priest loses his shit and tears his own clothes off and cries blasphemy. Jesus was referencing Daniel, which some folks here claim was not a real prophet. But if that was true then why did the high priest scream blasphemy about its reference then? If Daniel was just some “story” based off some ancient poem, why would the high priest lose his mind and demand Jesus be put to death?

Daniel ch7:
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] comingwith the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.


I know reading New Testament is like burning your own eyeballs out for certain people, but can these Christ-deniers explain this paradox?

The book of Rev I think 1:14 says he was like unto son of man, the word like unto means he was liken to, but not son of man. Christians try to be like unto Christ, does not make them Christ.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

he must return to life in order to bring peace to the world. Jesus sect believed in reincarnation

Absolutely false

 

[theHawk]

theHawk

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

Bible Gateway Hosea 11 :: NIV

And?

 

[theHawk]

The book of Rev I think 1:14 says he was like unto son of man, the word like unto means he was liken to, but not son of man. Christians try to be like unto Christ, does not make them Christ.

Son of Man refers to human form. The description of Rev 1:13 is of the High Priest and King(See Ex 28:4), which is the Messiah. He is like a human, but yet more than just a human.

 

[HaShev]

Son of Man refers to human form. The description of Rev 1:13 is of the High Priest and King(See Ex 28:4), which is the Messiah. He is like a human, but yet more than just a human.

In the Biblical age "son of" meant "reflection of."
Many people were deemed sons of God (reflections of) and being called
"son of Man" probably means to be a reflection of mankinds progression of achievements.
In the scrolls the sons of light vs sons of darkness requires knowing in that age what light and darkness meant.
Light=knowledge & truth
darkness= lies ignorance & folly
Means: "Sons of"(reflections of) knowledge and truth vs those who reflect lies ignorance and folly.
One can say this is taking place now in the political and religious arena in the age of information where as
Daniel 12 1-4 says we go to and fro gaining knowledge.

The War Scroll describes the Rules of War of the Children of Light (knowledge & truth)
against the Children of Darkness (Lies, Ignorance, & Folly).

Fact: Top Messenger Michael was always known as the Messenger of truth (spiritual Light)-Dan 10:21
Remember it's Michael who is known to be THE ONE Overturning the messenger of darkness (lies and ignorance).
And The clearest undeniable description of the Messiah Michael's Kingdom is in the same War Scroll (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, it says, God will send eternal bliss by the might of
the Princely Angel of the Kingdom of Michael. He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.

1QM v, 1-2) States:He (Michael)will not have much room to act as Royal Messiah while battling the Sons of Darkness.
“God himself is a supreme agent of salvation and after him in importance is Michael.”

So it doesn't sound like Jesus does it?
Jesus (the imposter) was the lie, it cost us thousands of wars and over 50 million slain over said lie.

 

[theHawk]

Fact: Top Messenger Michael was always known as the Messenger of truth (spiritual Light)-Dan 10:21
Remember it's Michael who is known to be THE ONE Overturning the messenger of darkness (lies and ignorance).

What does that have to do with anything? He is an angel, but never does God say his name is in him. He does not have the power to forgive sins.

 

[theHawk]

And The clearest undeniable description of the Messiah Michael's Kingdom is in the same War Scroll (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, it says, God will send eternal bliss by the might of
the Princely Angel of the Kingdom of Michael. He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.

1QM v, 1-2) States:He (Michael)will not have much room to act as Royal Messiah while battling the Sons of Darkness.
“God himself is a supreme agent of salvation and after him in importance is Michael.”

So it doesn't sound like Jesus does it?
Jesus (the imposter) was the lie, it cost us thousands of wars and over 50 million slain over said lie

This is all gibberish, not in the Tanakh. If this is the best you got, then you have nothing to refute the truth with.

 

[surada]

And?

That's about Israel.