A non-partisan examination of the federal debt

[NYcarbineer]

Without the super committee, the spending cuts start automatically in January of 2013.

When the Bush tax cuts expire in December of 2012, Obama won't allow them to be renewed.

Spending cuts + a return to the old tax rates = deficit reduction.

Congress has been taken out of the equation. No treasonous Tea Party/Republicans to mess things up.

Another brilliant move by Obama.

I am willing to bet you right here and now that Obama will call for another extension of the Bush tax cuts before the election in November.

I am willing to bet you that Obama will call for an extension of the Bush tax cuts, except for the top rate; that is the position that hits the sweet spot of public opinion,

and that is the position that would force Romney - who would oppose that exception - into the appearance of fighting for his own personal interests.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Obama budget deficits originated during the Bush presidency...

1. Tax cuts 2001-2002 (4 trillion over 10 years)
2. Prescription drug benefits (1 trillion over 10 years)
3. Economic meltdown of 2008 ( 3 trillion and rising)
4. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (2 trillion and winding down)

Are those the same cuts Democrats when holding the majority passed?

The same cuts democrats dont want to entirely repeal?

Were they wrong in the first place?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am willing to bet you right here and now that Obama will call for another extension of the Bush tax cuts before the election in November.

It's funny that the Bush tax cuts are still Bush tax cuts after Obama signed their extention. Or the Bush wars are still the Bush wars three years after Obama has been running them. Perhaps all the other conflicts that Obama started are also Bush's fault.

What's really funny is how $2 trillion of those Bush tax cuts went to people making less than $200,000 a year, and that taxes would go up on people making less than $10,000 a year if they actually do expire, yet people want us to believe they were all for the rich.

The tax reduction of the Bush tax cuts on 2004 taxes:

Bottom 20% - 2 billion

Top 20% - 115 billion

The Tax Foundation - Comparing the Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts

 

[Full-Auto]

The Obama budget deficits originated during the Bush presidency...

1. Tax cuts 2001-2002 (4 trillion over 10 years)
2. Prescription drug benefits (1 trillion over 10 years)
3. Economic meltdown of 2008 ( 3 trillion and rising)
4. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (2 trillion and winding down)

Are those the same cuts Democrats when holding the majority passed?

The same cuts democrats dont want to entirely repeal?

Were they wrong in the first place?

No, at the time DC was lying about the surplus. Democrats wanted it spent, repubs wanted it given back.

 

[saveliberty]

1) Do you have any evidence to support that Obama can be directly blamed for the unemployment rate? We have had 23 months of private sector growth. Obama deserves partial credit for that.

Yes, his stimulus package lengthened the recession, Obamacare has caused uncertainty in hiring new employees you may have a high liability with in the near future, higher unemployment insurance costs, threatening higher tax rates and the like.
2) How exactly was that Obama's fault?

His timing, policies and priorites allowed the country to slide further into recession

3) Solyndra got 535 million in support

No, Obama got the support, taxpayers got taken and Solyndra was given a free pass.

4) Again, how is it Obama's fault gas prices are high?

His energy policies made a direct impact. He has effectively eliminated future off shore drilling. Obstructionist actions have prevented oil from reaching refining facilities more efficiently.

My comments in blue.

 

[JDzBrain]

The tax reduction of the Bush tax cuts on 2004 taxes:

Bottom 20% - 2 billion

Top 20% - 115 billion

So much bull...so little time. I'll just start here. OF COURSE it was disproportional. Less that half of the bottom 20% you cite paid any tax in the FIRST PLACE. It's kind of hard to give a tax break to people who DON'T PAY TAX!

However...that is EXACTLY what happened. People who weren't even paying taxes got and continue to get a freakin' refund check under the Bush tax cut!

That's TOTAL leftist bull shit propaganda!

As to the REST of this nonsense, let's just have a little history refresher for the more intellectually challenged out there...CHART INCLUDED!

The year is 2000 and every MORON on the planet is wringing their hands over the millennium bomb. Well...the world didn't end cause computers couldn't cope, but the BOMB did go off. It was call the dot com bomb. Even got a new phrase in the American financial lexicon to go with it...BUBBLE ECONOMY. And it burst!

So, what else happened that year? Oh yeah, Bush was elected president and took office in '01, where he inherited the dot com bomb economy. Which include; high unemployment, recession, the 2nd largest loss of US wealth in history, sanctions and fines being leveled at top executives Citigroup, JP Morgan, Morgan/Stanley and several other financial giants. Now WHY does that sound so damn familiar? Oh well, I'll think of it eventually.

Oh...and what else happened in '01...in the middle of all this economic turmoil? Oh yeah, something we simply refer to as 9/11! Terrorist strike at the HEART of the financial district in the US, the CENTER for military industrial might of the US and had it not been for 'let's roll' the seat of all government power in America...all leading to the single greatest market crash since the 'Great Depression' and highest unemployment rate in 40 years.

Despite all that, waging wars in 2 countries and those evil Bush tax cuts, we managed to recover to FULL EMPLOYMENT by the governments definition, the stock market rebounded to the highest level IN HISTORY...AND manage to grow our economy by about 3% for 7 straight years....ALL while keeping the Gross Federal Debt LOWER than it was under Clinton!

So...here is where the chart comes in. And keep in mind, this chart is of GROSS federal spending as a percentage of GDP. It doesn't subtract public debt, revenues or any of the other statistical trickery used to support ideologies.

If you look at the chart for gross FEDERAL debt since 1900, you will notice a few peaks and trends. Around 1920, WWI of course. You would expect a world war to increase federal spending...but also Woodrow Wilson, the original progressive, whose interventionist banking policies lead DIRECTLY to the great depression.

Then there is another spike in federal debt starting in the early 30's, FDR's INSANITY of course, which delayed our recovery for over a decade and took us to WWII. And since it was the war to end all wars...the massive federal spending would be expected. However, after the war, as with all wars, the federal spending starts back down. This time, not as quickly because of the Korean and Vietnam wars...but down it goes.

But there are a couple other prominent peaks on that chart. The first one is in the 90's. It starts up in the 80's, MOSTLY due to defense spending under Reagen and Bush 1 because of modernizing a WWII army and a few skirmishes which include the first Gulf war, then begins to flatten until around 1989 when it shoots back up.

Let's see, '89, what happened that year. Oh yeah, a Democrat held Congress vote to keep expenditures for Social Security 'Off Budget' and put the Social Security Trust Fund 'On Budget' starting in 1991. Now WHY would they do that? Oh, yeah. Because they had been spending like drunken sailors, there was a 456 billion dollar deficit!

So...when Bubba Clinton and the republican congress took office and the SS Bomb the democrats planted thinking they would inherit it went off...they went from a 456 billion dollar deficit to a 1.2 TRILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS...over night!

Why in the HELL would they quit spending...they got money to burn!?

But the last and most telling peak starts in 2006 when Pelosi and the democrats took control of both houses of Congress. You have to be a complete MORON not to see the coloration.

It started up under Bush because of 9/11, refitting an Army Clinton had left raped and stimulus to recover from the 2000 dot com bubble caused by the VERY SAME PEOPLE involved in the 2008 housing bubble bust and the democrats biggest contributors...told ya I'd get back to it...but it had flattened out and the huge JUMP to the current peak started with the democrats in '06!

Had it not been for the TEA Party revolt leading to the republicans reclaiming one house of Congress and freezing the government everywhere they could...that peak that appears to have flattened off in 2011 would already be 20% higher than spending during the height of WWII thanks to Obama and his merry band of redistribute the wealth to buy a base socialist cronies in Congress.

So spin this shit how ever you want, but our government is OUT OF CONTROL. We are waging illegal wars in 5 different countries, haven't had a budget in 3 years and we have a president who bows to foreign oil Sheiks and pisses down the legs of Americans about oil from Canada and tells them it's raining.

The so called Bush Tax Cuts are NOT deficit spending...except for giving people who don't pay tax in the first place a refund...SPENDING is deficit spending and that money is OURS...NOT the governments.

That concludes the history lesson for today!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are those the same cuts Democrats when holding the majority passed?

The same cuts democrats dont want to entirely repeal?

Were they wrong in the first place?

No, at the time DC was lying about the surplus. Democrats wanted it spent, repubs wanted it given back.

Why would you give back the 'surplus' when you have trillions in debt that could have been paid down?

That's idiocy.

 

[Oldstyle]

Were they wrong in the first place?

No, at the time DC was lying about the surplus. Democrats wanted it spent, repubs wanted it given back.

Why would you give back the 'surplus' when you have trillions in debt that could have been paid down?

That's idiocy.

No, what's idiocy is spending it instead of paying down the debt, which is what we did.

 

[Full-Auto]

Were they wrong in the first place?

No, at the time DC was lying about the surplus. Democrats wanted it spent, repubs wanted it given back.

Why would you give back the 'surplus' when you have trillions in debt that could have been paid down?

That's idiocy.

Why did democrats want to spend it instead of paying down the debt.

As you said thats idiocy.

Your move.

 

[Immanuel]

Without the super committee, the spending cuts start automatically in January of 2013.

When the Bush tax cuts expire in December of 2012, Obama won't allow them to be renewed.

Spending cuts + a return to the old tax rates = deficit reduction.

Congress has been taken out of the equation. No treasonous Tea Party/Republicans to mess things up.

Another brilliant move by Obama.

I am willing to bet you right here and now that Obama will call for another extension of the Bush tax cuts before the election in November.

I am willing to bet you that Obama will call for an extension of the Bush tax cuts, except for the top rate; that is the position that hits the sweet spot of public opinion,

and that is the position that would force Romney - who would oppose that exception - into the appearance of fighting for his own personal interests.

My guess is that in the long run he will "cave" happily and extend those cuts as well. But he won't do so without the proper amount of hymning and hollering.

Immie

 

[saveliberty]

Romney? Yeah, I think I saw that name today in the voting booth. I filled in a different circle.

 

[Decepticon]

Now all you have to do is ask yourself one question.



WHAT/WHOM DID THEY SPEND IT ON AND WHY?