'A Moral Question'

[Si modo]

Sob stories about healthcare exist in ALL civilized countries. Morons like the OP, don't know that.

 

[auditor0007]

"If Nikki White had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today."

"Around the time she graduated from college, Monique A. "Nikki" White contracted systemic lupus erythematosus; that's a serious disease, but one that modern medicine knows how to manage. If this bright, feisty, dazzling young woman had lived in, say, Japan - the world's second - richest nation - or Germany (third richest), or Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Sweden, etc., the health care systems there would have given her the standard treatment for lupus, and she could have lived a normal life span. But Nikki White was a citizen of the world's richest country, the United States of America. Once she was sick, she couldn't get health insurance. Like tens of millions of her fellow Americans, she had too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too little money to pay for the drugs and doctors she needed to stay alive. She spent the last months of her life frantically writing letters and filling out forms, pleading for help. When she died, Nikki White was thirty-two years old." From prologue of book linked below.

"On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country either." T.R. Reid 'The Healing of America'

Often no personal comment is required, life speaks for itself, or is that death? Check 'look inside' on Amazon for more. Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care: T. R. Reid: Books

No. It doesn't happen in any other purportedly civilized country.

But then again, there's no other purportedly civilized country where elections are funded through the contributions of the insurance industry.

I wonder if willow ijit gets Medicare.

If you think similar circumstances do not arise in other 'civilized' countries, I'd suggest you get the fuck out of your bubble and live in some of those countries, and get sick and see for yourself what their 'civilized' healthcare does for you. See for yourself what a hospital in the UK is like - they're fucking dire, for the record. Or head to France and discover that, yes, some of your care is funded - the rest of it, you have to have private insurance to cover.

It's fine and dandy to pretend we are so much worse than the rest of the 'civilized' world... but unless you've actually lived in the countries you're comparing us to... you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. I do. I've lived it.

I have not personally lived it, but I know many people who do. To be honest, only one has ever had anything negative to say, and it was only partly negative. I have friends in Canada; they all think we are nuts for not having national healthcare. Seriously, they laugh at us for our stupidity. My mother is a Swiss citizen, and we have many friends in Switzerland and Germany. They all think we are nuts too, when it comes to healthcare. The only person I have known that had anything negative to say was an ex-girlfriend I dated from Scotland. She said the wait times for specialists were a bit long, but other than that, she was happy with NHS. Her son had a problem and it took 12 months to see a specialist. It wasn't life threatening in any way, just something that was causing him some problems.

Here's the thing, no system is absolutely perfect. The difference between ours and others is that with theirs, everyone gets treated and doesn't have to worry about how they will pay for it, because they pay for it through taxes all their lives. The other important fact is that on a per person basis, they pay somewhere around half as much as we do, and they all get decent healthcare. In most cases, if they want gold treatment they can purchase supplemental insurance so they can get the "gold" treatment.

 

[auditor0007]

There are some things above partisan ideology and stupidity, the health of each American is one of them.

A comprehensive, single-payer health care system is not a ‘disincentive,’ it’s not going to make Americans lazy or stupid or cause the collapse of American society.

It would be a Godsend to American business.

 

[Old Rocks]

"If Nikki White had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today."

"Around the time she graduated from college, Monique A. "Nikki" White contracted systemic lupus erythematosus; that's a serious disease, but one that modern medicine knows how to manage. If this bright, feisty, dazzling young woman had lived in, say, Japan - the world's second - richest nation - or Germany (third richest), or Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Sweden, etc., the health care systems there would have given her the standard treatment for lupus, and she could have lived a normal life span. But Nikki White was a citizen of the world's richest country, the United States of America. Once she was sick, she couldn't get health insurance. Like tens of millions of her fellow Americans, she had too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too little money to pay for the drugs and doctors she needed to stay alive. She spent the last months of her life frantically writing letters and filling out forms, pleading for help. When she died, Nikki White was thirty-two years old." From prologue of book linked below.

"On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country either." T.R. Reid 'The Healing of America'

Often no personal comment is required, life speaks for itself, or is that death? Check 'look inside' on Amazon for more. Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care: T. R. Reid: Books

No. It doesn't happen in any other purportedly civilized country.

But then again, there's no other purportedly civilized country where elections are funded through the contributions of the insurance industry.

I wonder if willow ijit gets Medicare.

If you think similar circumstances do not arise in other 'civilized' countries, I'd suggest you get the fuck out of your bubble and live in some of those countries, and get sick and see for yourself what their 'civilized' healthcare does for you. See for yourself what a hospital in the UK is like - they're fucking dire, for the record. Or head to France and discover that, yes, some of your care is funded - the rest of it, you have to have private insurance to cover.

It's fine and dandy to pretend we are so much worse than the rest of the 'civilized' world... but unless you've actually lived in the countries you're comparing us to... you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. I do. I've lived it.

LOL. What a peice of twaddle. All of that, but their life expectancy is much better, and their infant mortality is way below ours. At about half the cost per citizen, and all their citizens are covered.

 

[Si modo]

No. It doesn't happen in any other purportedly civilized country.

But then again, there's no other purportedly civilized country where elections are funded through the contributions of the insurance industry.

I wonder if willow ijit gets Medicare.

If you think similar circumstances do not arise in other 'civilized' countries, I'd suggest you get the fuck out of your bubble and live in some of those countries, and get sick and see for yourself what their 'civilized' healthcare does for you. See for yourself what a hospital in the UK is like - they're fucking dire, for the record. Or head to France and discover that, yes, some of your care is funded - the rest of it, you have to have private insurance to cover.

It's fine and dandy to pretend we are so much worse than the rest of the 'civilized' world... but unless you've actually lived in the countries you're comparing us to... you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. I do. I've lived it.

LOL. What a peice of twaddle. All of that, but their life expectancy is much better, and their infant mortality is way below ours. At about half the cost per citizen, and all their citizens are covered.

Yup all their citizens are covered - minimally. Same in France. You want more than the bare minimum, you get extra coverage on your own. And most I knew did exactly that.

 

[whitehall]

If you think that 3,000 page mess the democrat party crafted in the middle of the night is going to help people like Nikkie White you are delusional.

 

[midcan5]

If you think that 3,000 page mess the democrat party crafted in the middle of the night is going to help people like Nikkie White you are delusional.

So the 'can't do' is the new American motto. Sorry, but someone has to act and if not perfect, it is a start.

 

[Oddball]

The tyranny of compulsion and endless layers of bureaucracy have nothing to do with the "can do" spirit or morality, tovarich.

 

[Wiseacre]

If you think that 3,000 page mess the democrat party crafted in the middle of the night is going to help people like Nikkie White you are delusional.

So the 'can't do' is the new American motto. Sorry, but someone has to act and if not perfect, it is a start.

How about instead of "can't do", we say "can do a whole lot better". Agree that someone has to act, it wasn't perfect, and it was a start. If nothing else, the issue has raised the nation's attention on a very important question. I think it was very poorly done and the legislation is ruinous; it's not sustainable in it's current form. We're going to have to find a way to address costs rather than coverage, or at least in addition to coverage.

 

[Greenbeard]

How about instead of "can't do", we say "can do a whole lot better". Agree that someone has to act, it wasn't perfect, and it was a start. If nothing else, the issue has raised the nation's attention on a very important question. I think it was very poorly done and the legislation is ruinous; it's not sustainable in it's current form. We're going to have to find a way to address costs rather than coverage, or at least in addition to coverage.

For one example, see: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-reform-model-lowers-costs-improves-care.html

 

[auditor0007]

If you think similar circumstances do not arise in other 'civilized' countries, I'd suggest you get the fuck out of your bubble and live in some of those countries, and get sick and see for yourself what their 'civilized' healthcare does for you. See for yourself what a hospital in the UK is like - they're fucking dire, for the record. Or head to France and discover that, yes, some of your care is funded - the rest of it, you have to have private insurance to cover.

It's fine and dandy to pretend we are so much worse than the rest of the 'civilized' world... but unless you've actually lived in the countries you're comparing us to... you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. I do. I've lived it.

LOL. What a peice of twaddle. All of that, but their life expectancy is much better, and their infant mortality is way below ours. At about half the cost per citizen, and all their citizens are covered.

Yup all their citizens are covered - minimally. Same in France. You want more than the bare minimum, you get extra coverage on your own. And most I knew did exactly that.

Even with the extra coverage, which gives them excellent care, their cost is still half of what we pay. You seem to keep missing that point.

 

[auditor0007]

If you think that 3,000 page mess the democrat party crafted in the middle of the night is going to help people like Nikkie White you are delusional.

So the 'can't do' is the new American motto. Sorry, but someone has to act and if not perfect, it is a start.

How about instead of "can't do", we say "can do a whole lot better". Agree that someone has to act, it wasn't perfect, and it was a start. If nothing else, the issue has raised the nation's attention on a very important question. I think it was very poorly done and the legislation is ruinous; it's not sustainable in it's current form. We're going to have to find a way to address costs rather than coverage, or at least in addition to coverage.

Without a doubt, The ACA will need some changes, but we don't even know what changes it may need yet. It will need time to work itself out so we can see the true effects, both positive and negative, before we can address any of those issues. What I find crazy is everyone complaining about how much it is going to cost when health insurance rates were being increased by more than 10% every single year for the last decade before the ACA was passed.

 

[WillowTree]

No. It doesn't happen in any other purportedly civilized country.

But then again, there's no other purportedly civilized country where elections are funded through the contributions of the insurance industry.

I wonder if willow ijit gets Medicare.

you're gonna pay for my operation on tuesday and I love it.

But I don't care b/c I'm not a hypocritical loon.

Funny how you live off of the lib who pays a ton of taxes, though, leech

make me lots of money moron, I'm gonna need it.

 

[emilynghiem]

The opposite of "not having treatment" is NOT "INSURANCE"
The opposite is HAVING TREATMENT
and that can be provided in a lot more ways.
Insurance is one way it MIGHT be provided, but not the only way.

The most direct way is for the hospitals and doctors to provide care first
and work out a way to pay for treatment later. If anything REMOVING the
dependence on insurance restrictions and conditions would allow direct care.

If more hospitals, medical schools and services were set up to provide services
directly as part of educational and public outreach, without relying on insurance
to make money off health care, then the resources would go DIRECTLY into services.

There are some reputable insurance companies that are service oriented and not in it just to make money:
USAA for military families
Christian based insurance coops such as Amiga/Amico (sp?)

These do not need to be mandated by govt because they have operated just fine on their own, without govt imposition.
The only thing missing is more people need to support such ethical companies and replicate them with the free enterprise
and educational system we already have the freedom to use, instead of fighting over politics and trying to make the govt do this which is too expensive and bureaucratic.
The money wasted fighting over private insurance could have already been invested in building more teaching hospital and health care cooperative networks already.

"If Nikki White had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today."

"Around the time she graduated from college, Monique A. "Nikki" White contracted systemic lupus erythematosus; that's a serious disease, but one that modern medicine knows how to manage. If this bright, feisty, dazzling young woman had lived in, say, Japan - the world's second - richest nation - or Germany (third richest), or Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Sweden, etc., the health care systems there would have given her the standard treatment for lupus, and she could have lived a normal life span. But Nikki White was a citizen of the world's richest country, the United States of America. Once she was sick, she couldn't get health insurance. Like tens of millions of her fellow Americans, she had too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too little money to pay for the drugs and doctors she needed to stay alive. She spent the last months of her life frantically writing letters and filling out forms, pleading for help. When she died, Nikki White was thirty-two years old." From prologue of book linked below.

"On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country either." T.R. Reid 'The Healing of America'

Often no personal comment is required, life speaks for itself, or is that death? Check 'look inside' on Amazon for more. Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care: T. R. Reid: Books

P.S. Another factor left out of this whole govt/insurance debate is natural spiritual healing.
there are plenty of cases where cancer and other deadly conditions have been treated or permanently cured
in ways beyond just placating the symptoms. Some conditions such as schizophrenia and rheumatoid arthritis
have been cured spiritually where medically there was no cure only expensive medications to reduce symptoms.

Sources: "Healing" by Dr. Francis MacNutt http://www.christianhealingmin.org
Healing is Yours outreach by Dr. Phillip Goldfedder http://www.healingisyours.com
Other testimonies of healing cancer and other diseases including sexual abuse/addictions
by calling Olivia Reiner 713 829 0899 These are free sources of spiritual healing that I know to be genuine.

 

[Meister]

Bottom line, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than any liberal will admit to. We ARE going to get less than any liberal is willing to admit to. The ACA is the first step getting the government to take over the entire healthcare industry....some liberals will admit to that, while others haven't come out of the closet.
The government can't manage its way out of a wet paper bag, but the liberals are still all for it.

 

[logical4u]

There are some things above partisan ideology and stupidity, the health of each American is one of them.

A comprehensive, single-payer health care system is not a ‘disincentive,’ it’s not going to make Americans lazy or stupid or cause the collapse of American society.

It would be a Godsend to American business.

FYI: employers started offering health insurance to their employees, so they could keep good employees by giving them a "benefit" that was not taxed. It was like getting more income, plus you didn't have to pay taxes on it. The gov't chose to let it slide for decades until the congress figured out that if congress acted as the middle man for health care, they could rob the tax payers blind, control the population, and eliminate the elderly by declining health care coverage.
All too many people are thinking about what is in it for "themselves" without considering the massive amounts of deaths that will be happening due to denial or delay of health care. It is a very efficient way for the gov't to control medicaid, medicare, and social security, all wrapped up in an iron whip called Obamacare.

 

[Oddball]

There are some things above partisan ideology and stupidity, the health of each American is one of them.

A comprehensive, single-payer health care system is not a ‘disincentive,’ it’s not going to make Americans lazy or stupid or cause the collapse of American society.

It would be a Godsend to American business.

There you have it...Gubmint = God to the modern day progressive/socialist/liberoidal.

Tells ya all ya need to know.

 

[midcan5]

"Caleb Medley, an aspiring standup comic, YouTuber, total nerd, and enthusiastic fan of Batman, was shot in the eye at the Aurora movie theater mass shooting...Caleb is currently listed in critical condition at the University of Colorado Denver Hospital. He is showing some signs of progress. Like a number of people injured in the Aurora shooting, he is uninsured. His family has been told that the cost of his medical treatment may exceed $2 million." Uninsured Aurora shooting victims face financial devastation - Boing Boing


"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. ¶ Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection." Universal Declaration of Human Rights

 

[logical4u]

"Caleb Medley, an aspiring standup comic, YouTuber, total nerd, and enthusiastic fan of Batman, was shot in the eye at the Aurora movie theater mass shooting...Caleb is currently listed in critical condition at the University of Colorado Denver Hospital. He is showing some signs of progress. Like a number of people injured in the Aurora shooting, he is uninsured. His family has been told that the cost of his medical treatment may exceed $2 million." Uninsured Aurora shooting victims face financial devastation - Boing Boing


"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. ¶ Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection." Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Who is paying the bills? Do you send all your disposable income to those less fortunate than you?

 

[ShackledNation]

Cherry picking examples like this will not lead to any progress in fixing American healthcare. You need to first ask the right questions. Why are so many people uninsured? Because health insurance is too expensive. Why is health insurance too expensive? Because of the FDA, AMA, insurance mandates, employer provided insurance (a result of wage controls under FDR, and current laws that make it more favorable to employers due to tax deductions and the like), obesity (in part due to the subsidization of high fructose corn syrup by the government), and the absurd patent system of the United States.

Corporatist government has been harming US healthcare for decades. What is needed is free market healthcare, not a different type of government intervention.