A challenging scripture about love

[buttercup]

Do all things in love. (1 Corinthians 16:14) I'll be the first to admit that sometimes this can be very challenging, and like everyone else, I sometimes fail to follow this command.

A few months ago I was thinking about this scripture in a way that most Christians might not think of it... and in a way that might ruffle some feathers. So I put those thoughts into this video. This is mainly for Christians, so once again (like I said on my last thread) this thread is not to debate God or Christianity, etc. It's just a video I wanted to share with the believers here.

If you disagree, please share your thoughts, in a civil and 1 Cor 16:14 way!

 

[jwoodie]

Agape love = charity

 

[luchitociencia]

I won't watch your video, because If I don't like it, my view of it will be counted as one more "watch" by YouTube system anyway.

However, I think the test of knowing how well one have understood what that verse is about, for example, is being late because a traffic accident in front of you, and later when you finally have free path, then to avoid trying to over speed on your route in order to attempt arriving to the airport on time.

So driving at 35mph when the street requires it, a 25 mph or 45 mph and not making complaints of any kind.

Being close to the airport knowing you are late because you respected the traffic law and there you are crying of happiness that the Adversary didn't overcome and you missed the fly, but "so what"?

What is missing an appointment when on the other hand you are gaining the right of eternal life? And you knew you were to missed the fly driving while respecting the streets speed limits, but you did it anyway with love. Right?

Did I get the point given in that verse?

 

[buttercup]

Agape love = charity

Yes. But to be clear (and as you probably agree) this does not mean that the word is limited to "charity" in the way we think of the word charity today. In biblical usage, the word is used interchangeably with love.

 

[buttercup]

I won't watch your video, because If I don't like it, my view of it will be counted as one more "watch" by YouTube system anyway.

However, I think the test of knowing how well one have understood what that verse is about, for example, is being late because a traffic accident in front of you, and later when you finally have free path, then to avoid trying to over speed on your route in order to attempt arriving to the airport on time.

So driving at 35mph when the street requires it, a 25 mph or 45 mph and not making complaints of any kind.

Being close to the airport knowing you are late because you respected the traffic law and there you are crying of happiness that the Adversary didn't overcome and you missed the fly, but "so what"?

What is missing an appointment when on the other hand you are gaining the right of eternal life? And you knew you were to missed the fly driving while respecting the streets speed limits, but you did it anyway with love. Right?

Did I get the point given in that verse?

Are you saying that doing everything in love also means not driving crazy, even if you're late for a flight, to avoid causing an accident? If so, I guess you could look at it that way, haha. But the video is actually about something else. I don't know if you'd like it, but for those who do watch it, I hope it is thought-provoking.

 

[ReinyDays]

This isn't about Christianity, it's about animal cruelty ... isn't it? ...

It's not a sin to not eat meat ... but it's a very profound sin to say God doesn't want us eating meat, there are explicit rules in the Bible pertaining to which animals we can kill and eat and wear the parts of, and which animals we can't kill and eat and wear the parts of ... Jesus said we're not to do away with these Laws, not one jot, not one tittle ...

"Love your brother as you love yourself" ... it doesn't say to love animals, plants or minerals ... those are just things of the flesh, vanity and vexation of spirit, there's a variety of passages in the Bible that speaks to loving the flesh, and ignoring the spirit ... God would have us kill the goat, by what ever means possible, to feed a widow woman and her starving orphan children ... we love each other, not the things around us ...

Last note on the theological ... that's a 20th Century Bible you're using ... King James Version has "Let all your things be done with charity" ...

-----

There's a few trademarks that mean "cruelty free" ... commonly known as Kosher ... so that's one option for the carnivores among us ... not sure why you hate on plants, they're just things ... and those seeds are the plant's unborn babies ... how about a video clip from a flour mill next time ... ewwwww ...

 

[luchitociencia]

As this thread still is not showing the context of the topic -unless you watch the video (as a way to obtain more "views" perhaps in that website?) I don't like feel obligated to follow such tactics.

The right to do it "with love" is writing the transcript here and adding the video as the additional link.

If the video is about "diet", as I am perceiving by the above message, it is not recommended to listen when the speaker says no to eat meat.

See? the "sacrifices" made in the Temple weren't just burning animals to be the dead bodies in disposal after the ritual.

The sacrifices for offerings where shared by the priest and family with the one(s) who presented the offering. This is to say, the offering to God was a cow, then from this cow the body was to be eaten by the priest, his family, the person who presented the offering and his family.

Sacrifices because sin were the same ritual, but the only ones eating from that meat were the priest and family. The one asking for forgiveness offering the cow or bird or lamb, he wasn't able to eat from it.

Only the burnt sacrifices weren't shared at all.

In times of Jesus, he never even tried to stop sacrifices and eating cow, lamb, fish, etc. because there is nothing wrong doing so.

If someone decides eating vegetables alone, that is his story, but such won't make his body more healthy, this is for sure, unless he was vegetarian since birth. Even so, it will cause him health problems at last.

Doing things with love is directed to be positive behavior in the good and the bad situations and actions we will confront in life.

 

[buttercup]

This isn't about Christianity, it's about animal cruelty ... isn't it? ...

It's about both. You really should watch the video first, and then comment. Because the whole point is bringing up a different point of view that many Christians might not have thought about. And you don't know what is stated in the video without watching it.

It's not a sin to not eat meat ... but it's a very profound sin to say God doesn't want us eating meat, there are explicit rules in the Bible pertaining to which animals we can kill and eat and wear the parts of, and which animals we can't kill and eat and wear the parts of ... Jesus said we're not to do away with these Laws, not one jot, not one tittle ...

I didn't say that it was a sin to eat meat. But I absolutely disagree with your claim in your second sentence, for a number of reasons. What is important is God's perfect will, not what God permits. For example, God permits divorce, but it is not His perfect will.

The bible is very clear, from reading Genesis 1:29-30, as well as the prophetic scriptures regarding God's plan to restore that perfect beginning that God's intent for mankind and perfect will is peace and harmony among all creation, NO flesh eating. That is how it was in the beginning, and that is how it will be again one day. We also have a ton of scriptures throughout the bible about mercy, love, selflessness, kindness and nonviolence.

The problem with your POV is that you are completely excluding animals from your circle of mercy and love. That is not Godly, as God loves the animals and the bible states that His mercy extends to ALL that he created. (Psalm 145:9)

"Love your brother as you love yourself" ... it doesn't say to love animals, plants or minerals ... those are just things of the flesh, vanity and vexation of spirit, there's a variety of passages in the Bible that speaks to loving the flesh, and ignoring the spirit ... God would have us kill the goat, by what ever means possible, to feed a widow woman and her starving orphan children ... we love each other, not the things around us ...

First off, animals are not inanimate objects, they are sentient beings, they have feelings (happiness, affection, fear, curiosity, playfulness, etc) they have individual personalities, to put them on the same level as a plant or mineral is foolish and blind. God created and loves the animals, so to think that God only cares about one part of creation (humans) is as anthropocentric as it gets, and as I stated earlier, it is not in line with the heart of God. God cares about ALL creation.

Again, the original design/intent, as we can see in the Garden of Eden, was peace and harmony among humans and animals, no flesh eating. Plant-foods were given as food (Genesis 1:29) because obviously plants are not sentient, they do not feel pain or have emotions like animals. Again, it is foolish and unbiblical to put them on the same level.

Also, I never said that humans are on the same level as animals. But us being "above" the animals does not mean it's OK to exploit them and use them for our own selfish reasons. Animals were not put here for us, ALL of creation was made by God and FOR God. (Colossians 1:16)

So being above animals is all the more reason to take care of them rather than rule over them like a tyrant. Please read this blog post where I go into this in more detail: A Closer Look At Dominion - Live Mercifully

Last note on the theological ... that's a 20th Century Bible you're using ... King James Version has "Let all your things be done with charity" ...

Yes, if you read the thread, we already went over that. Agage / charity is used interchangeable with love, look it up.

There's a few trademarks that mean "cruelty free" ... commonly known as Kosher ...

Please watch the video, I address that in the vid.

so that's one option for the carnivores among us ... not sure why you hate on plants, they're just things ... and those seeds are the plant's unborn babies ... how about a video clip from a flour mill next time ... ewwwww ...

How on earth did you get that I hate on plants? That is silly and nonsensical.

 

[ding]

You can’t find a higher standard than thou shall not kill.

 

[buttercup]

You can’t find a higher standard than thou shall not kill.

Amen!

 

[ReinyDays]

How on earth did you get that I hate on plants? That is silly and nonsensical.

Of course I watched your video before I posted ... how do you think I know it's about animal cruelty and not Christianity? ... the imagery of those two pig being suffocated in a carbon dioxide chamber will last with me for some time, as you intended it to (maybe add NSFW) ... you want me to stop eating meat entirely and God says different ... Genesis only establishes that most plants are clean, and in Leviticus God establishes certain meats as clean, that means the same thing ... I've slaughtered a few goats for a widow woman, not just meat for her table but milk for her many children; kosher of course, that woman was strong in the Word ...

I did go over to YouTube and hit "like" ... I think it's important for people to see this, know what it means to put meat on the table ... but let's be charitable, we're asking Americans to eat like Europeans, that would bruise our collective ego (God forbid) ...

That part I quoted above is to let you know why I'm giving you the handwave ... I esteem all of God's creation; animal, plant and mineral; to be charitable, so should you ...

 

[buttercup]

How on earth did you get that I hate on plants? That is silly and nonsensical.

Of course I watched your video before I posted ... how do you think I know it's about animal cruelty and not Christianity? ... the imagery of those two pig being suffocated in a carbon dioxide chamber will last with me for some time, as you intended it to (maybe add NSFW) ... you want me to stop eating meat entirely and God says different ... Genesis only establishes that most plants are clean, and in Leviticus God establishes certain meats as clean, that means the same thing ... I've slaughtered a few goats for a widow woman, not just meat for her table but milk for her many children; kosher of course, that woman was strong in the Word ...

I did go over to YouTube and hit "like" ... I think it's important for people to see this, know what it means to put meat on the table ... but let's be charitable, we're asking Americans to eat like Europeans, that would bruise our collective ego (God forbid) ...

That part I quoted above is to let you know why I'm giving you the handwave ... I esteem all of God's creation; animal, plant and mineral; to be charitable, so should you ...

Well when you asked if it was about animal cruelty it sounded like maybe you didn't watch it. But anyway, I'm glad you did, thanks.

There is a warning in the title of the video itself, but I realized after I posted it that you can't see that part of the title because it's too long. I was going to add a warning to the original post, but by that time I could no longer edit it.

No, Genesis 1 is not merely about establishing that most plants are 'clean.' It was establishing God's intent for mankind, spelled out clearly. If God's original intent was for humans to eat animals, He would have stated that from the start, but that is not the case. The diet God gave us was plantbased foods that are grown from the ground. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it, because why would a loving, merciful just God create beings with the ability to feel pain, fear and suffering if He intended those beings to be food? That would be beyond cruel, that would be demonic. There wasn't even death in the very beginning, not until after sin came into the world.

I want to address the animal sacrifices and Leviticus verses later, because it's going to take some time for me to write out my view on that. But for now, suffice it to say that in this day and age for most people eating animals is completely unnecessary, people do it because they like the taste, and out of habit/tradition. And as the bible says (I'm paraphrasing) all things may be permitted but not all things are beneficial or edifying.

Another thing many Christians might not think about is that we were told to pray for (to want) God's perfect will "on earth as it is in heaven." In heaven and in God's ideal world, which we saw in the beginning and which we will see again when Jesus returns ("the wolf shall lay with the lamb....none will harm or destroy") there is love, nonviolence, no flesh eating... and we were told to pray for God's perfect will on EARTH as it is in heaven. If we love God, why not honor His intent /plan for mankind.... which is going to happen, whether people like it or not. In fact, I believe Christians should be leading the way, but unfortunately the opposite seems to be true, at least for now.

 

[HaShev]

Problem with Love is it's subjective and not truly discernable by people.
Which is real love; One who knows something, but is affraid to tell you because you will be angry and persecute them, so they hold it back (tell you what you want to hear).
-Or-
one who reveals what they know that is unpopular but true that you weren’t studied to know or privy to knowing(what you need to hear), so they sacrafice being the hated messenger to reveal it to you so you’d be safe?
Not many people really stood up and dared to tell you the facts of life, because they didn’t love you enough to risk doing so, or bother to waste energy doing so, and it’s because of how you treat them when they do speak out.
So love for country can be twisted as hate and intolerance and hate for country claimed tolerant and loving, well we now see that first hand as Bull, the ones willing to be unpopular to do what's needed is truly concerned and those silencing what we need to know and hear are not doing so out of love, but out of maintaining status quo and subversive control whether political or religious this is the problem of discernment.

 

[buttercup]

Problem with Love is it's subjective and not truly discernable by people.
Which is real love; One who knows something, but is affraid to tell you because you will be angry and persecute them, so they hold it back (tell you what you want to hear).
-Or-
one who reveals what they know that is unpopular but true that you weren’t studied to know or privy to knowing(what you need to hear), so they sacrafice being the hated messenger to reveal it to you so you’d be safe?
Not many people really stood up and dared to tell you the facts of life, because they didn’t love you enough to risk doing so, or bother to waste energy doing so, and it’s because of how you treat them when they do speak out.
So love for country can be twisted as hate and intolerance and hate for country claimed tolerant and loving, well we now see that first hand as Bull, the ones willing to be unpopular to do what's needed is truly concerned and those silencing what we need to know and hear are not doing so out of love, but out of maintaining status quo and subversive control whether political or religious this is the problem of discernment.

You brought up some interesting points. It's true that sometimes people misunderstand and twist love, like for example people who love their country enough to speak the truth about subversive elements and then they (the ones speaking up) are labeled America haters or "anti-American."

To me love and truth go hand in hand. There is a quote on that, I can't think of it off the top of my head, but I'll see if I can find it.

Anyway... the video is actually about something else entirely, maybe you didn't watch it. But I also think the topic of love in and of itself is a good and interesting one. Thanks!

 

[ReinyDays]

Read a little further in your Bible ... it explains why God's original intent was thwarted ... and what God replaced it with, and how that was thwarted ... then God's next plan, and how that was thwarted ... and the next ... and the next ... watch the video yourself and see how thwarted the creations of Man are ...

How do you feel about Frankenfoods, it's near impossible to stay away from them at your typical grocery store ... some would argue these are creations of Man and are evil in every way (not me btw) ... just curious is all ...

-Or-
one who reveals what they know that is unpopular but true that you weren’t studied to know or privy to knowing(what you need to hear), so they sacrafice being the hated messenger to reveal it to you so you’d be safe?

The highest form a charity is telling your brother how he is sinning ... and if your brother doesn't listen when you speak politely and humbly, then he never will listen ...

 

[luchitociencia]

The bible is very clear, from reading Genesis 1:29-30, as well as the prophetic scriptures regarding God's plan to restore that perfect beginning that God's intent for mankind and perfect will is peace and harmony among all creation, NO flesh eating. That is how it was in the beginning, and that is how it will be again one day. We also have a ton of scriptures throughout the bible about mercy, love, selflessness, kindness and nonviolence.

You are going ahead of a step that is not even close to start in the plan made by God.

Let me give an example. It was a test for new navy applicants, and the test had 51 questions. The supervisor told them to answer any 50 questions of those 51. The only one applicant who scored 100% in the test, were denied to become a navy, and when he asked why, it was told that he didn't follow orders, because he answered the 51 questions.

This is what happened when people don't read properly the writings.

If Jesus, the Son of God, said nothing about stop eating flesh, is because such a new physically established kingdom is not here yet.
Then, we are in the status of "applicants" only. We are not navy troops yet, just the applicants.

As applicants, there are conditions to follow, otherwise the entrance will be impeded.

Trying to go ahead the orders and status, and start dressing as navy troops without being one is simply nuts. And in many places is considered illegal, pretending to be something that one is not.

No one has been selected yet, and the questionnaire to get inside with the 51 questions (following the analogy) is solely by keeping the so called "kosher diet". This is to say, no fat, no pork, fish with scales only, and etc.

Those are the questions to be answered properly. Those were the questions same Jesus answered properly. He didn't came to the word as vegetarian, he ate fish, lamb and more, because he was following the diet given, and every Passover he ate lamb and unleavened bread like any other Israelite.

The diet you have mentioned in Genesis won't apply until the prophecy of the "lion and the lamb" will be seen together in peace. Even when this is just a symbolic figure (the lion and the lamb), it is the time when things will become like the beginning. But surely is not today.

On the other hand, people is free to choose the diet they think is most convenient for their health, but no one is authorized to imply that the bible says that in our current moment in this "plan" of God, we must start returning back to Genesis.

Jesus didn't do it, neither the apostles, and we must be very careful in how to advice others, because by trying to look for perfection in the wrong way, we can be carrying others to fall rather than stand up and walk in the right path.

 

[buttercup]

You are going ahead of a step that is not even close to start in the plan made by God. Let me give an example. It was a test for new navy applicants, and the test had 51 questions. The supervisor told them to answer any 50 questions of those 51. The only one applicant who scored 100% in the test, were denied to become a navy, and when he asked why, it was told that he didn't follow orders, because he answered the 51 questions.

This is what happened when people don't read properly the writings.

I have no doubt that it is you who is not reading the scriptures properly. You seem to be focusing ONLY on certain scriptures that appear to justify your penchant for eating flesh, which indicates that you are being led by your personal fleshly desires, and that is not the way we are supposed to read the scriptures.

If Jesus, the Son of God, said nothing about stop eating flesh, is because such a new physically established kingdom is not here yet.
Then, we are in the status of "applicants" only. We are not navy troops yet, just the applicants.

There’s a lot wrong with this. First of all, in our bible today, we do not have ALL of Jesus' words, we only have a small portion. When you do the research and dig deep on this topic, there is SO much more to it, but I don’t want to get into all that right now, so for now I’m going to stick to the undeniable points.

Secondly, although we do not have ALL of Jesus words, we DO have many clear teachings that indirectly support vegetarianism, and many teachings that indirectly oppose flesh-eating for selfish reasons.

For example:

Mercy

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful”
– Luke 6:36

(God has mercy on all He created, so likewise, we should have mercy on all, not just our own circle.)

"Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
– Matthew 5:7

“Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’”
– Matthew 9:13


Selflessness

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep”
–John 10:11

(Sacrificial love, this is the heart of God, love, mercy and selflessness. God has dominion over us and His love is merciful and sacrificial. Likewise, we have dominion over the animals and as image-bearers of God, we should be loving and merciful to those under us. Having a sacrificial love means not putting our selfish desires first, but caring about the interests of others. Not just others in our circle, but ALL others.)

'Love your neighbor as yourself.’ – Mark 12:31

(Our neighbors in this world are not only humans, animals are our neighbors too)

[love] "...it is not self-serving”
– 1 Corinthians 13:5


Servanthood

“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
– Mark 10:45

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!”
– Philippians 2:6-8

"The greatest among you will be your servant.”
– Matthew 23:11

“You have liberty, but do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh but through love, serve one another."
– Galatians 5:13

"And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, 'If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.'”
– Mark 9:35


Peace

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."
– Matt 5:9

"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”
– Romans 14:17

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
– Galatians 5:22-23


I could go on and on. There are TONS more teachings on setting aside our own selfish desires and instead choosing to love, serve and be merciful to others. Now, I know what your response is going to be. You’re probably thinking, “Those scriptures only apply to humans, not animals.” That mindset pinpoints the problem. Creation is about more than just humans. We are not the center of creation, GOD is. To think of ONLY humans is selfish and anthropocentric, and it goes against God’s way, because God created, loves and cares about ALL of creation.

Do you honestly think that our God of love and mercy WANTS humans and animals to be at each others throats? Of course not! Again, that is not the way it was in the beginning, and it is not the way it will be again one day.

Yes, we live in a fallen world. But you seem to be using that as an excuse to do what YOUR flesh wants to do, rather than seeking God’s perfect will.

Like I said to the other guy, Jesus taught us to pray for God’s will be to done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. In other words, here on earth a lot of things take place that are not God’s perfect will, but things that God allows to take place. In heaven there is God’s perfect will - which we already know is love, peace, non-violence…. A world without suffering, exploitation, killing and death. Jesus taught us to pray for God’s kingdom to come and God’s will to be done… on EARTH as it is in heaven.

As applicants, there are conditions to follow, otherwise the entrance will be impeded.

Trying to go ahead the orders and status, and start dressing as navy troops without being one is simply nuts. And in many places is considered illegal, pretending to be something that one is not.

No one has been selected yet, and the questionnaire to get inside with the 51 questions (following the analogy) is solely by keeping the so called "kosher diet". This is to say, no fat, no pork, fish with scales only, and etc.

I’m sorry, but not only is that nonsensical as a comparison but as I just said, in regard to Jesus teaching about praying for God’s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven, it goes against what the Bible says.

You are basically saying that because we are not yet in God’s perfect world, in the restoration of the peaceful world that He created in the beginning… we should just throw our hands up in the air, forget about trying to make this a better world and just wallow in the sin and misery and fallen ways! No, we are told to do the opposite!

Those are the questions to be answered properly. Those were the questions same Jesus answered properly. He didn't came to the word as vegetarian, he ate fish, lamb and more, because he was following the diet given, and every Passover he ate lamb and unleavened bread like any other Israelite.

There is NO verse in the Bible that states Jesus ate lamb. You are reading into the text. As for fish, that one is debatable, but as I said earlier, I’m not going to get into that right now, because not only is it controversial but it is a big topic that I don’t think we even need to get into at this point. In today’s world, especially for us in the west, there is zero need to eat animals… people do it because they want to, to satisfy their tastebuds, or out of habit/ tradition. In my opinion, those reasons do not outweigh God’s commands for us to be merciful, selfless, loving kind and at peace with all others.

Here is what we know: God’s original intent and perfect will for mankind is peace and harmony among all creation, and NO flesh eating. That is clear from Genesis 1:29-30 as well as the many prophetic scriptures about God restoring that perfect world, and as well as the many scriptures on mercy, love, selflessness, serving, etc.

I’m going to post the words of someone else that I read today on a different site, because these words eloquently sum up what I have been trying to say: "Looking for ways to get around God’s original intended vegan diet and his oft-stated calls for mercy and humility is neither faithful nor compassionate. A God of love will of course prefer kindness over violence to the innocent."

The diet you have mentioned in Genesis won't apply until the prophecy of the "lion and the lamb" will be seen together in peace. Even when this is just a symbolic figure (the lion and the lamb), it is the time when things will become like the beginning. But surely is not today.

On the other hand, people is free to choose the diet they think is most convenient for their health, but no one is authorized to imply that the bible says that in our current moment in this "plan" of God, we must start returning back to Genesis.

Jesus didn't do it, neither the apostles, and we must be very careful in how to advice others, because by trying to look for perfection in the wrong way, we can be carrying others to fall rather than stand up and walk in the right path.

Once again, your “we can do it later we don’t have to do it now” mindset goes directly against Jesus teaching on God’s heavenly will, Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven!

Secondly, I never said that people are not free to choose. Yes, of course we have free will. But if you can choose between selfishness or selflessness, why choose the former? If you can choose between violence and peace, why choose violence? If you can choose between the temporary fallen world or honoring God’s original intent and eternal plan... why choose this fallen world? If you can choose between eating something that screamed in terror and begged for their life… or something that is meant to be food and never screams, why choose the former? If you can choose between serving your own interests or serving the interests of others who are innocent and created and loved by God, why choose your own interests?

Again, that type of mindset is not Godly. Granted, I'm not saying that everyone who eats meat falls into that category. I honestly believe that MOST people who eat meat are simply unaware of just how evil and horrific the animal industries are. It's kind of like a blissful ignorance... and many people may not want to look into it, for fear of finding a truth they will have to deal with in their own conscience. So I differentiate between those who are doing something without full awareness... and those who KNOW what goes on but still choose to do it, for selfish reasons. The latter is who I'm talking about when I say that mindset is not in line with the heart of God.

 

[ReinyDays]

I have no doubt that it is you who is not reading the scriptures properly. You seem to be focusing ONLY on certain scriptures that appear to justify your penchant for eating flesh, which indicates that you are being led by your personal fleshly desires, and that is not the way we are supposed to read the scriptures.

Judge not, lest you be judged; for that which you mete out will be measured unto you again ...

Who are you to tell us how to read the Bible? ... which chapters are lies and which chapters are true? ... go read Leviticus chapter 11 and come back and tell us those are all falsehoods given to us by God Himself ... I dare you to call God a liar ...

Remember ... I fully endorse your efforts to stop the cruelty in our commercial meat production ... and the pursuit of filthy lucre by such means ... but don't tell us God says we aren't to eat certain meats unless you have a passage that actually says "never eat meat" ...

As Christians, we are obligated to bring folks into the flock ... and we commit grave sin when we place stumbling blocks before our brothers and sisters ... when you defy God's Word, you chase people away from the Faith ...

 

[buttercup]

I have no doubt that it is you who is not reading the scriptures properly. You seem to be focusing ONLY on certain scriptures that appear to justify your penchant for eating flesh, which indicates that you are being led by your personal fleshly desires, and that is not the way we are supposed to read the scriptures.

Judge not, lest you be judged; for that which you mete out will be measured unto you again ...

Who are you to tell us how to read the Bible? ... which chapters are lies and which chapters are true? ... go read Leviticus chapter 11 and come back and tell us those are all falsehoods given to us by God Himself ... I dare you to call God a liar ...

Remember ... I fully endorse your efforts to stop the cruelty in our commercial meat production ... and the pursuit of filthy lucre by such means ... but don't tell us God says we aren't to eat certain meats unless you have a passage that actually says "never eat meat" ...

As Christians, we are obligated to bring folks into the flock ... and we commit grave sin when we place stumbling blocks before our brothers and sisters ... when you defy God's Word, you chase people away from the Faith ...

That was in response to his accusation. If you are going to accuse me of judging him on misreading the bible, then why are you not saying that about his comment to me? Here it is:

"This is what happened when people don't read properly the writings. - luchitociencia​

So, it's not judgemental for him to accuse me of not reading the scriptures properly... but in response when I state MY OPINION that he is the one not reading the scriptures properly, only I am being judgmental? You seem to be selective in your finger pointing.

 

[buttercup]

but don't tell us God says we aren't to eat certain meats unless you have a passage that actually says "never eat meat" ...

You completely ignored everything I posted in my reply to him, except the first sentence. We have tons and tons of teachings and commands that corroborate living according to God's original intent and eternal plan. Why ignore that long list that I posted? (which is only a small fraction of all the scriptures.)

You are doing the exact same thing he is doing, you are focusing on certain selected scriptures that appear to justify your penchant for flesh eating, while ignoring the bigger picture, God's perfect will and the TONS of scriptures that teach us MERCY, love, selflessness, kindness and peace. Why is that?

ETA: I'm not going to continue arguing. The main thing I wanted to do in this thread (and in the video) is bring up a different way of looking at things, not to get into heated debates or make people feel bad. I do genuinely believe that we are getting close to the end of this age, and this may sound crazy to nonbelievers, but closer to the day when Jesus will restore the peaceful beautiful world that existed in the beginning, as prophesied in Isaiah 11 and other places.

So, if we are getting closer to that day, why not embrace it instead of fight against it? This might sound crazy too, but I believe that an awakening is happening.... veganism has already been popular among secular people, but it is starting to become more prevalent among Christians. Which makes perfect sense since it is the BIBLE that says one day "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them...." A peaceable world is biblical, it is GOD's perfect will. But getting back to the point of the video, why not choose to do ALL things in love, and all things includes abstaining from things that involve exploiting and killing, when it is unnecessary and not good for ourselves, the animals or this earth.