Zionism: The State of Israel is a rebellion against God.

[rylah]

Millions of Jews believe that the existence of a jewish nation state overrides any religious consideration.

Fair enough. But the fact remains that a secular jewish state is a sacrilege according to Judaism.

Millions of Jews actually believe it's the fulfillment of all their duties and promises for generations.
Word's like "religion" or "secular" don't appear in Torah, those are all Christian ideals.

Judaism is not a religion, it's a prophetic heritage, gentiles can't grasp it,
but they need their religions, so they come to Terah for id(e)ologies,
and the Jews are those who defy and break all their terms of reality.

Who was 'Brahman'?

 

[marvin martian]

Fascinating group of Orthodox Jews who oppose Zionism calling for a "peaceful dismantling" of the State of Israel. They believe that Jews are forbidden to have their own state until the coming of the Jewish Messiah and that the state of Israel is a rebellion against God.

NKUSA - Guardians of the City - Hasidim - The State of Israel a rebellion against God: These people are from the Middle East.

Zionism: "From 1897 to 1948, the primary goal of the Zionist Movement was to establish the basis for a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and thereafter to consolidate it."

Neturei Karta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

New York streets descend into chaos during pro-Palestinian rally

Protesters were arrested by NYPD officers at a demonstration in Brooklyn on Saturday.

www.newsweek.com

I remember ages ago being fascinated by 'Jews For Jesus" and more recently the End Times Christians who demand support for Israel because they believe it will bring about the end of the world. Myself, I've never been anti-Israel. As a matter of fact I was long a member of the club that is "Israel, right or wrong" that is until Israel passed the point of facing an existential threat.

Israel exists. It has a right to defend itself. Also, not all Jews support Zionism - homeland in the ME.


View attachment 846944

LOL! The left will embrace any group of kooks who share their anti-Semitism.

Look for Dante's next thread praising the KKK.

 

[rylah]

The return to the Holy Land and/or a jewish state created not by the jewish Messiah but by atheists and agnostics like Herzl and Gurion is a blaphemy in Judaism. This fact was not even open for debate among Jews until the Zionist movement got going.

Today, the state of Israel tries and sweep this truth under the carpet but it is what it is.

Actually, the fact it was the "secular" majority leading the re-constitution of Israel,
quite openly opposing the diaspora lifestyle and any association with
the Orthodoxy, or religion broadly, reveals G-d's hand in all that.

If they were Orthodox with a religious zeal to conquer the land,
that would mean something completely different than people
opposing religion fulfilling the prophecy.

If I remember correctly,
this very question was presented
to Rabbi Kook by a pope at the time.
Could also be to Manitou or Rabbi Zvi Yehudah.

 

[surada]

And what are the boundaries according to Torah?

It is known Muslims learn Rashi in Madrassas,
and some can even quote him, and while thinking
they hear what the words mean in context, even literary,
it's a whole another level of stupid seeing Dawa missionaries
attempting to quote Rashi to Jews without reading the first verse.

Most madrassas are in Pakistan for boys age 6-12.

Leviticus isn't difficult. Moving boundaries is all about cheating your neighbors.

 

[rylah]

Most madrassas are in Pakistan for boys age 6-12.

Most of the illiteracy in the 'Islamic world', is in Arab states - want to play this further?

 

[luiza]

The state of Israel is just a highly visible front for the Deep State .

And as Israel and the US created Hamas , so beforehand The Deep State, headed by the US and UK , created Israel .

The only sufferers as ever are the entrained Sheeple .
Not that they have a clue what is going on .

 

[rylah]

The state of Israel is just a highly visible front for the Deep State .

And as Israel and the US created Hamas , so beforehand The Deep State, headed by the US and UK , created Israel .

The only sufferers as ever are the entrained Sheeple .
Not that they have a clue what is going on .

Sheikh Yassin was a Mossad agent?

Now that's worth a hashtag,
along with Dr.YahoodZaik

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Zionism: The State of Israel is a rebellion against God.
SUBTOPIC: What is Relevant today?
※→ et al,

(OPENNING)

The ancient writings of very old civilizations and tribal societies area great anthropological finding and the study of the culture in olden times. But, those writings by ancestors from the first great early dynasties and realms cannot be used to resolve or applied to the contemporary political questions. The Book of Deuteronomy (5th Book of The Torah) is all about "Life Changes" and the basic education in "righteousness." Deuteronomy was written by men that still thought the world was at the celestral center of all that was known; in a time when women were handled as chattel. It was written well over 6000 years old (7th Century BCE). This was when the wisdom of Moses was given the Israelites when they were still on their walk-about. A time when religious ritual included "Burnt Offerings of Children."

And what are the boundaries according to Torah?

It is known Muslims learn Rashi in Madrassas,
and some can even quote him, and while thinking
they hear what the words mean in context, even literary,
it's a whole another level of stupid seeing Dawa missionaries
attempting to quote Rashi to Jews without reading the first verse.

(COMMENT)

It is quite hard to read and think in terms (in context) of a man living 5000 years ago.

Today, archeological evidence is ambiguous as to where the boundaries were for Israel or Canaan. But the approximations are quite interesting.

But today, the boundaries of Israel are quite clear.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Zionism: The State of Israel is a rebellion against God.
SUBTOPIC: What is Relevant today?
※→ et al,

(OPENNING)

The ancient writings of very old civilizations and tribal societies area great anthropological finding and the study of the culture in olden times. But, those writings by ancestors from the first great early dynasties and realms cannot be used to resolve or applied to the contemporary political questions. The Book of Deuteronomy (5th Book of The Torah) is all about "Life Changes" and the basic education in "righteousness." Deuteronomy was written by men that still thought the world was at the celestral center of all that was known; in a time when women were handled as chattel. It was written well over 6000 years old (7th Century BCE). This was when the wisdom of Moses was given the Israelites when they were still on their walk-about. A time when religious ritual included "Burnt Offerings of Children."


(COMMENT)

It is quite hard to read and think in terms (in context) of a man living 5000 years ago.

Today, archeological evidence is ambiguous as to where the boundaries were for Israel or Canaan. But the approximations are quite interesting.

But today, the boundaries of Israel are quite clear.

Most Respectfully,
R

That's sort of Rambamist thought, but he didn't
and neither should we disregard those generations.

It was rather intuitively realized, through heritage, that prophecy
is a natural character in Israel, which translates to all levels, and generations
simultaneously, even if...even if Mosheh Rabbenu didn't hear it "that way", individually.

As for thinking in terms of those immediate people to whom Torah was given and spoken,
at their given time, the individual level is less relevant here, those seemingly personal
stories are the collective reality, daily collective reality in Israel proper and abroad.

If you like number games, look for the year Abraham was born,
according to Jewish calendar, or look at Israeli politics,
We just got used to it to somehow keep sanity,
throughout the history and now.

But it's the same story,
very same story,
and it will be
corrected.

 

[José]

Originally posted by rylah
Actually, the fact it was the "secular" majority leading the re-constitution of Israel, quite openly opposing the diaspora lifestyle and any association with the Orthodoxy, or religion broadly, reveals G-d's hand in all that.

If I remember correctly, this very question was presented to Rabbi Kook by a pope at the time. Could also be to Manitou or Rabbi Zvi Yehudah.

The Zionist movement was so extraordinarily successful beyond any expectations, so victorious by any standard you measure it, that it was innevitable that Judaism, as it was undestood for centuries, would be "patched up" by the movement in order to legitimize the sacrilege.

In reality, the theological legitimization of the movement occurred even before the Zionism succeeded beyond Herzl's wildest dreams as you mentioned yourself.

 

[rylah]

The Zionist movement was so extraordinarily successful beyond any expectations, so victorious by any standard you measure it, that it was innevitable that Judaism, as it was undestood for centuries, would be "patched up" by the movement in order to legitimize the sacrilege.

In reality, the theological legitimization of the movement occurred even before the Zionism succeeded beyond Herzl's wildest dreams as you mentioned yourself.

How fulfillment of prophecy can be sacrilege?

The vision of Dr Herzl ZYA"A also includes the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Esdraelon]

The return to the Holy Land and/or a jewish state created not by the jewish Messiah but by atheists and agnostics like Herzl and Gurion is a blaphemy in Judaism. This fact was not even open for debate among Jews until the Zionist movement got going.

Today, the state of Israel tries and sweep this truth under the carpet but it is what it is.

Riiight. That's why the Jews always said "Next year in Jerusalem" at the end of the Passover seder. The group whose doctrine you give supreme support to are just a TINY group of Jews in the US. News flash - US Jews support the Democrat party by a massive majority. Their religion is not Judaism, it's the Democrat party. The Jews were predicted to return to the land from all over the world in the "last days". I don't recall that scripture mentioning HOW it HAD to happen...

 

[Esdraelon]

I think more and more that Palestine was THE WRONG destination , do you agree with me ?

Archaeology proves that the specific culture of the Jewish people existed in that land over 3000 years ago. NO, it is precisely the CORRECT AND ONLY location where the Jewish nation should exist in modernity

 

[Litwin]

Archaeology proves that the specific culture of the Jewish people existed in that land over 3000 years ago. NO, it is precisely the CORRECT AND ONLY location where the Jewish nation should exist in modernity

any comment on this ?

 

[sparky]

The obfuscation here is phenomenal & reeks of being purposely contrived.....~S~

 

[rosends]

any comment on this ?

sure. He's wrong

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/21/europe/alexander-dugin-russia-profile-intl/index.html

 

[Litwin]

sure. He's wrong

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/21/europe/alexander-dugin-russia-profile-intl/index.html

they are all the same

 

[surada]

How fulfillment of prophecy can be sacrilege?

The vision of Dr Herzl ZYA"A also includes the Temple in Jerusalem.

Hertzl was a secular person. His reasons for a Jewish state were practical.

The Palestinians and Zionism: 1897-1948 | Middle East Policy Council

mepc.org

 

[José]

Riiight. That's why the Jews always said "Next year
in Jerusalem" at the end of the Passover seder.

The group whose doctrine you give supreme
support to are just a TINY group of Jews in the US.

Mr. Esdraelon, meet Mr. Tom Segev, israeli historian and the author of "One Palestine, complete":

TOM SEGEV​

Many of the Jews living in Palestine did not support Zionism; indeed, much of the pre-Zionist Jewish population - that is, those who lived in Palestine before the 1880s - were Orthodox. They were deeply hostile to the notion of secular Jewish autonomy in the Holly Land, which, according to religious doctrine, would be redeemed only through divine intervention in the messianic age.

To the traditional Jewish population of Palestine, the Zionist ideal of secular redemption was sacrilegious.

One Palestine Complete: Jews and Arabs under the British Mandate - Tom Segev - pag. 16 - 17

 

[rylah]

Riiight. That's why the Jews always said "Next year
in Jerusalem" at the end of the Passover seder.

The group whose doctrine you give supreme
support to are just a TINY group of Jews in the US.

Mr. Esdraelon, meet Mr. Tom Segev, israeli historian and the author of "One Palestine, complete":

TOM SEGEV​

Many of the Jews living in Palestine did not support Zionism; indeed, much of the pre-Zionist Jewish population - that is, those who lived in Palestine before the 1880s - were Orthodox. They were deeply hostile to the notion of secular Jewish autonomy in the Holly Land, which, according to religious doctrine, would be redeemed only through divine intervention in the messianic age.

To the traditional Jewish population of Palestine, the Zionist ideal of secular redemption was sacrilegious.

One Palestine Complete: Jews and Arabs under the British Mandate - Tom Segev - pag. 16 - 17

'Secular' and 'religious' are not Jewish terms.