Zelensky challenges Trump to release plan to end Ukraine war with Russia

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Exactly. And they are trying to make Ukraine a member.

Only since Russia invaded ! Did you sleep through that part?

 

[AntonToo]

Exactly. And they are trying to make Ukraine a member.

NATO nations agree Ukraine is on "irreversible path" to membership

Ukraine has long sought to join NATO, which would afford it much greater protection against Russia and other adversaries.

www.cbsnews.com

Nato summit: Ukraine on 'irreversible path' to membership

The alliance also pledges more aid to Ukraine, but China warns it to stop "provoking confrontation".

www.bbc.com

Apparently you slept through that part.

Ukraine was fine without NATO…UNTILL RUSSIA INVADED THEM.

Other countries that joined NATO as a direct result of Russian invasion: Sweden, Finland.

So here is a crazy idea for Russia to try if they don’t want their neighbors joining defensive alliances: STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES.

 

[ESay]

It's not about leadership rights, it's about reasonable measures at a time of war and existential threat to the country. It's not at all "insane" as you've claimed.

Resolve, Antoshka, do you remember? You were babbling about resolve. And now let me tell you what is going on in reality - Zelensky is going to prolong this more and more unpopular war in Ukraine using oppressive methods as long as he gets financial and political support of your administration. This war turned into a bloody attrition war with Ukraine slowly losing ground.

And you as a Russian speaker (you understand Russian, don't you) has all chances to get that by yourself, not following false narratives by a 'collective Pravda' and not spreading this ridiculous stuff. But once Sovok means forever Sovok.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Hunter took the board position in May 2014. Obama tasked Joe Biden with Ukraine matters in late 2013.

Here’s a readout of a phone call Biden had with Yanukovych dated Dec 2013.

Readout of Vice President Biden's Call with Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych

In a phone call today with Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, Vice President Biden expressed his deep concern about the situation in Ukraine and the growing potential for violence. The Vi

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

Analysis of Hunter Biden's hard drive shows he and his firm took in about $11 million from 2013 to 2018

The hard drive and documents from Senate Republicans indicate few of Biden’s deals ever came to fruition and shed light on how fast he was spending his money.

www.nbcnews.com

“From 2013 to 2018”

 

[AntonToo]

Resolve, Antoshka, do you remember? You were babbling about resolve. And now let me tell you what is going on in reality - Zelensky is going to prolong this more and more unpopular war in Ukraine using oppressive methods as long as he gets financial and political support of your administration. This war turned into a bloody attrition war with Ukraine slowly losing ground.

And you as a Russian speaker (you understand Russian, don't you) has all chances to get that by yourself, not following false narratives by a 'collective Pravda' and not spreading this ridiculous stuff. But once Sovok means forever Sovok.

“more and more unpopular war?”

Where do you get that from? Not folding to Russian demands is very popular in Ukraine last I checked and Zelensky does have popular support.

I do speak Russian and in fact watch many Ukrainian politics/war bloggers. All of them support the war effort and exactly ZERO of them want Zelensky to fold. ZERO.

So where do you get the idea that Ukranians at large support capitulation to Russians?

 

[Marener]

Analysis of Hunter Biden's hard drive shows he and his firm took in about $11 million from 2013 to 2018

The hard drive and documents from Senate Republicans indicate few of Biden’s deals ever came to fruition and shed light on how fast he was spending his money.

www.nbcnews.com

“From 2013 to 2018”

From your own article:
Biden wrote in his book about how few of his business deals brought tangible results. He said he wasn’t “desperate” before he landed a position on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma in 2014 but that the money was “helpful” and that it came at a “fortuitous” time. He said it meant he didn’t have to work so hard to find clients, “the most time-consuming part of my work — drilling twenty dry wells to finally hit pay dirt,” and that it let him spend more time with his dying brother, Beau.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Trump is just running his mouth. He has no plan to end that conflict anymore then he was going to force Mexico to pay for his vanity wall or that he had a healthcare plan ready to launch to provide care to everyone at less cost.

Trump is a lying no good piece of shit who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground other then how to grift the sucker's.

They seem to heed Trump and laugh at Biden, you would see that if you let go of your little feelings.

 

[ESay]

“more and more unpopular war?”

Where do you get that from? Not folding to Russian demands is very popular in Ukraine last I checked and Zelensky does have popular support.

I do speak Russian and in fact watch many Ukrainian politics/war bloggers. All of them support the war effort and exactly ZERO of them want Zelensky to fold. ZERO.

So where do you get the idea that Ukranians at large support capitulation to Russians?

I get it from seeing how many people are trying to avoid the draft by any means. And of course how rhetoric is changing over these years.

I'd bet it is those bloggers who initially claimed that people being virtually abducted from the street by draft officers was just Russian propaganda.

If you watch many Ukrainian politics and bloggers, then how is it possible that you didn't hear the Arahamia's interview and mentioning Johnson there, that made much noise in Ukraine?

 

[AntonToo]

I get it from seeing how many people are trying to avoid the draft by any means. And of course how rhetoric is changing over these years.

How many? Rhetoric is different how?

What are you talking about that actually contradicts what I’ve said about popularity of Zelensky and his leading of the war effort against invasion?

 

[ESay]

How many? Rhetoric is different how?

What are you talking about that actually contradicts what I’ve said about popularity of Zelensky and his leading of the war effort against invasion?

Now literally everyone who is obliged to serve is talking about 'bron'' (that is a legal mean, or in some cases almost legal, to avoid the draft). Yeah, people avoid to talk about negotiations, concessions etc, because it would mean that everything was in vain and they were wrong.

Zelensky's extra popularity are long gone. I wouldn't be surprised if after a while he would be hated not less than Yanukovych.

Actually, all that 'peace initiatives' (the 'summit of peace' in Switzerland; and planned another one, with Russian representatives) should have already rung a bell in your head. Especially, given that the last year Ukrainian officials rejected any negotiations altogether. But you seem to be unable to go out of the matrix.

 

[AntonToo]

Now literally everyone who is obliged to serve is talking about 'bron'' (that is a legal mean, or in some cases almost legal, to avoid the draft). Yeah, people avoid to talk about negotiations, concessions etc, because it would mean that everything was in vain and they were wrong.

Zelensky's extra popularity are long gone. I wouldn't be surprised if after a while he would be hated not less than Yanukovych.

Actually, all that 'peace initiatives' (the 'summit of peace' in Switzerland; and planned another one, with Russian representatives) should have already rung a bell in your head. Especially, given that the last year Ukrainian officials rejected any negotiations altogether. But you seem to be unable to go out of the matrix.

I'll repeat again

What are you talking about that actually contradicts what I’ve said about popularity of Zelensky and his leading of the war effort against invasion?

"less popular" does not mean unpopular, so you are talking past me when you say that.

Here is a highly negative piece on Ukranian support for the war effort

New Polling Shows Significant Ukrainian Support for Diplomacy to End the War

There is more dissent from the Zelensky government’s war aims than may appear.

www.thenation.com

Ukraine’s battlefield successes in 2022, when 70 percent of survey respondents affirmed that Ukraine “should continue fighting until it wins the war.” That number dropped to 60 percent in the summer of 2023, according to Gallup. Polling since the failure of Ukraine’s 2023 offensive shows that 44 percent of Ukrainians favor entering into talks with Russia and only 48 percent—still a plurality but, notably, no longer a majority—believe Ukraine should fight on.


Do you see war effort being unpopular? No.

 

[ESay]

I'll repeat again

What are you talking about that actually contradicts what I’ve said about popularity of Zelensky and his leading of the war effort against invasion?

If you can't answer the question directly, if you can't present any serious evidence that Zelensky and the war effort he leads is unpopular then just say so instead of beating around the bush.

I already told you - the borders still being closed down and new mobilization law and directives becoming more and more oppressive. It is the best evidence you can get.

 

[AntonToo]

I already told you - the borders still being closed down and new mobilization law and directives becoming more and more oppressive. It is the best evidence you can get.

Ridiculous, none if that is definitive to popular support of Zelensky and continued war effort he leads.

Just because some don't want to put their life on the line to defend their country doesn't mean they want Ukraine to capitulate to invaders.

 

[Marener]

I already told you - the borders still being closed down and new mobilization law and directives becoming more and more oppressive. It is the best evidence you can get.

Countries facing an existential threat to their existence can get more oppressive.

 

[ESay]

Ridiculous, none if that is definitive to popular support of Zelensky and continued war effort he leads.

Just because some don't want to put their life on the line to defend their country doesn't mean they want Ukraine to capitulate to invaders.

Not some people, Antoshka. The majority of people. Your support of Zelensky is the same as support of 'anti-communist' dictators in Latin America in the Cold War days.

 

[ESay]

Countries facing an existential threat to their existence can get more oppressive.

Countries? You mean the government can get more oppressive? Yes, it can. But maybe it is better to let people speak?

 

[AntonToo]

Not some people, Antoshka. The majority of people.

Should I take your so far bullshit round-about word for it?

Do you have actual source for what you are claiming? A definitive showing of Ukrainian majority disaproving of war effort and it's support for conceeding all 5 regions in their administrative borders to Russia as per Putin's demands.

If you don't, then

 

[AntonToo]

Countries? You mean the government can get more oppressive? Yes, it can. But maybe it is better to let people speak?

Who is not letting (Ukranian) people speak, what are you talking about?

 

[ESay]

Should I take your so far bullshit round-about word for it?

Do you have actual source for what you are claiming? A definitive showing of Ukrainian majority disaproving of war effort and it's support for conceeding all 5 regions in their administrative borders to Russia as per Putin's demands.

If you don't, then

You can take or not take everything you want. My actual source is people I live among in. I live in this land, while you got the **** out of it with a tail between your legs. So, your advice with the cup you can shove in your butt.

 

[ESay]

Who is not letting (Ukranian) people speak, what are you talking about?

Don't try to look more silly, than you already are, Antoshka.