You’re Watching the Old Order Collapse…and the People Who Built It Would Rather Burn America Down Than Lose Power

[candycorn]

So let me put it to you this way........

how would you feel if anyone could go to the bank and withdraw money from your account, without having to show id or other verifying information. They only knew your name and what bank you dealt with. Better yet, all they had to do was call the bank and transfer funds, not even show up, and the bank allowed it......because gee, theft and fraud rarely happens like that so no need to change the rules.

1. It cannot happen in either banking or voting.
2. The “transaction” would have a paper trail and documentation if it were to somehow take place.
3. To strain the example even further, had this hapened, the bank would let me make a provisional transaction pending the sorting of what happened.

You guys have spent years and counties have spent a lot of taxpayer money counting and recounting the votes. No sizable voter fraud has ever been detected. They routinely cross check the votes when there isn’t an orange baby and his sick supporters screaming “voter fraud”...no sizable voter fraud was ever found there either.

At what point do you accept the facts?

 

[JustAnotherNut]

The “transaction” would have a paper trail and documentation if it were to somehow take place.

So how much of a 'paper trail and documentation' is there for mail in ballots, other than at the office and how many hands have touched those ballots before being counted????

You guys have spent years and counties have spent a lot of taxpayer money counting and recounting the votes. No sizable voter fraud has ever been detected. They routinely cross check the votes when there isn’t an orange baby and his sick supporters screaming “voter fraud”...no sizable voter fraud was ever found there either.

And that^^^ never had to happen if in-person and id were required.


My point of wanting better election accountability has more to do with that never having a chance to happen, no matter who is running

 

[candycorn]

So how much of a 'paper trail and documentation' is there for mail in ballots, other than at the office and how many hands have touched those ballots before being counted????

Depends on the locality but your name is on a list, you sign in where you vote, you’re given a transaction number, you go to a booth and enter the number, and you then cast your ballot. In my area, you can track your vote via that number.

And that^^^ never had to happen if in-person and id were required.

LOL....

It didn’t “have” to happen period.

And it didn’t happen in the case of the other 7,000+ losers in 2020.

But, for some reason, the orange blob has fans who think there was massive voter fraud when there was no proof.

But since you’ve gone there....please tell us how many votes were fraudulent and in what states.

Surely you know what you allege to have happened, right?

Can you explain how the democrats lost seats in the US House while committing so much fraud?

My point of wanting better election accountability has more to do with that never having a chance to happen, no matter who is running

Sure... Elections are already accountable and secure though. The only ones making noise otherwise are people who can’t identify specific instances of insecurity or non-accountability. Fancy that.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Depends on the locality but your name is on a list, you sign in where you vote, you’re given a transaction number, you go to a booth and enter the number, and you then cast your ballot. In my area, you can track your vote via that number.

That may be in your state, where there is accountability.

In the state of WA, as well as other states it's mandatory mail in ballots. There is no transaction number, no booth and nothing but sending off your ballot in the mail thru the post office. Best you can do is to put it in a drop box at the county election office, located in a public parking lot. Those drop boxes at the election office and throughout the state are vulnerable to tampering, vandalism or just getting run over by some nit wit whacked out on drugs.

You can check if your ballot was received on the county website, but no way to tell how your vote was cast, if at all. For I know they could have dumped my ballot in the garbage without ever opening it, or could have marked different choices.

It didn’t “have” to happen period.

And it didn’t happen in the case of the other 7,000+ losers in 2020.

But, for some reason, the orange blob has fans who think there was massive voter fraud when there was no proof.

But since you’ve gone there....please tell us how many votes were fraudulent and in what states.

Surely you know what you allege to have happened, right?

I haven't 'alleged' anything here, I don't believe I have ever said 2020 was stolen, though I have said the results were suspicious.

The problem comes that now Trump has made such claims and investigations and all that, regardless of it being true or not has set a precedent for others to follow, both from any future winner or loser standpoint.....as in someone actually cheating to win, or the loser to challenge it.

Having election integrity should be important for everyone, not just one side or the other.

 

[cnm]

Meanwhile back in reality,...

The blob said on social media he won’t sign any more bills until Congress passes election reform; something that the federal government doesn’t have a constituional role in officiating.

The sole creator of chaos is the blob.

Be fair, give the little imps that support the Great Satan their due.

 

[candycorn]

That may be in your state, where there is accountability.

My state is Arizona...where your blob has whined about being cheated for 1/2 a decade now.

In the state of WA, as well as other states it's mandatory mail in ballots. There is no transaction number, no booth and nothing but sending off your ballot in the mail thru the post office.

And then this happens:

Seems pretty comprehensive to me. What part don't you like?

Best you can do is to put it in a drop box at the county election office, located in a public parking lot. Those drop boxes at the election office and throughout the state are vulnerable to tampering, vandalism or just getting run over by some nit wit whacked out on drugs.

What you're describing is the same way you pay your taxes, receive mail order medications, and letters from grandma. And few if any seem to fall victim to tampering, vandalism or some nit wit whacked out on drugs.

You can check if your ballot was received on the county website, but no way to tell how your vote was cast, if at all. For I know they could have dumped my ballot in the garbage without ever opening it, or could have marked different choices.

And voting in person will fix that? They could just take your ballot box and toss it into the river! Paranoia is not attractive.

I haven't 'alleged' anything here, I don't believe I have ever said 2020 was stolen, though I have said the results were suspicious.

That's nice. Strange how its only suspicious when your cult leader doesn't win. I guess 2024 was not suspicious although the same exact mechanisms were in place?

The problem comes that now Trump has made such claims and investigations and all that, regardless of it being true or not has set a precedent for others to follow, both from any future winner or loser standpoint.....as in someone actually cheating to win, or the loser to challenge it.

Having election integrity should be important for everyone, not just one side or the other.

As all of the audits and examinations have proven...we have election integrity. What we don't have in your blob is a man with integrity.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

My state is Arizona...where your blob has whined about being cheated for 1/2 a decade now.

And then this happens:

View attachment 1229817
Seems pretty comprehensive to me. What part don't you like?

What you're describing is the same way you pay your taxes, receive mail order medications, and letters from grandma. And few if any seem to fall victim to tampering, vandalism or some nit wit whacked out on drugs.

And voting in person will fix that? They could just take your ballot box and toss it into the river! Paranoia is not attractive.


That's nice. Strange how its only suspicious when your cult leader doesn't win. I guess 2024 was not suspicious although the same exact mechanisms were in place?


As all of the audits and examinations have proven...we have election integrity. What we don't have in your blob is a man with integrity.

Nice pictures of what I had already explained......and apparently you can't discuss anything without focusing on 'the blob'. And as for 2024, Harris wasn't a strong candidate.......and btw I voted for Kennedy..


Can't tell me you never doubted Trumps 2016 win over Hillary.......but doesn't really matter.

What I've been trying to get thru to you is that as long as one side or the other, question the system.......then that system isn't representative of everyone REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL CHOICE.

 

[White 6]

Does the concept of "need to know" escape that TDS-addled brain of yours?

I wouldn't shit you! You are my favorite turd!

Don't be an idiot. A country you are flying over has a need to know, if didn't make arrangements to avoid friendly fire. In country, if you are in a actual operating TOC (Tactical Operations Center), not a stationary office complex of trailers (mostly like house trailer, not hardened, not operating for movement, stationary in one place for over a year, they damned sure deserved a "Heads Up". Then they could have resumed actually operating like a TOC. If staying in one place for a year, its friggng targeted office complex, not a TOC. TOCs relocate frequently, irregularly and as tactical situations change. It is in the frigging manuals. You jump the TOC in this manner as a matter of training, practicing moving and resetting up. It is training, and security. If you think you are in a secure location and just sit there, while "Echelons" above reality, do not keep you informed of new operations, tempos, and tactical situations, good people will die. And they did, on day one of the new operation, blasted to smitheries by not performing to ARTEP (Army Testing and Evaluation Program) standards, and being left out of the loop, making them expendable or possibly every commander's worst nightmare at any level down to squad, simply forgotten to death in a war zone. Does the Navy anchor off a coast in one place for 6 months or a year at a time? No. The move around. Same with the army. In this case, it was Army Reserve out of Iowa, operating the TOC in Kuwait, for the 103rd Sustainment Command. Operating the "TOC" to Doctrine? No. Put there on purpose? Yes. Was higher command aware? Undoubtedly. Did they have a need to know of impending combat operations? ABSOLUTELY. Now 4 or 6 people are dead, on the first day of combat operations, and you say they did not have a need to know.
Hegseth (the idiot) first said they were in a hardened TOC, but moved off that BS within 8 or 12 hours, as nobody trained in doctrine was buying it.

But, it is totally unnecessary deaths like this, is why allies and US commands within theater of operations must be informed of impending operations. The Kuwaiti air defenses shot down three F-15 Eagles (the same day) with air defenses we gave or supplied them. All pilots survived by ejecting, as far as I know. They were lucky.

 

[citygator]

You’re Watching the Old Order Collapse…​

and the People Who Built It Would Rather Burn America Down Than Lose Power​

Farther Along

"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way." — General George S. Patton, Jr.

www.kunstler.com

9 Mar 2026 ~~ By John Howard Kunstler

Don’t lose the plot. Embrace the suck. This is the world’s hard time, for now. The birth of anything can be a bloody horror. It can even look like death. Don’t be too afraid to see what comes on the other side of this awful spectacle.
So many Americans are rooting and wishing for the Iran war to turn out badly for Western Civ. And why? Because Trump. And why? Because at the same time he is ending Iran’s long-running nuclear blackmail game, he is terminating the rackets of the Democratic Party. The incipient changes in operational order create new categories of winners and losers.
Now you know why Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists run on the same track as America’s Woke-Jacobin-Marxists, including the pitifully deluded wine ladies of posh West LA, Grosse Point, Beacon Hill, Fairfax County, et cetera, whose brains have been hijacked by the cable news demon factory (and their sponsors). Chaos does everything possible to avoid meeting order.
And this is why passing the SAVE Act is as consequential as ridding the Middle East of its chief chaos agent. Do you realize how perfectly insane our country’s election procedure has become? The fraud is titanic and right in your face, and the remedy is so plain and simple. What possible excuse is there to thwart it? Non-citizens have no right to vote. Mail-in ballots are patently subject to chicanery. Vote tabulation machines are demonstrably hackable. 80-percent of Americans know this is the truth. How is there controversy over this?
How? Because among all the broken institutions in our country, Congress is the worst. The Congress of our time is demonstrating that we might not be worthy of governing ourselves. We are at a cycle-low for public rectitude. Anything goes and nothing matters as long as the campaign contributions keep rolling in. You see how this has been going.
~Snip~
So, Mr. Trump, for all his flaws, attempts to bring order out of chaos at home and in global relations, and the agents of chaos mightily resent the shut-down of their precious chaos. With Iran, it has come to fighting fire with fire. It’s unlikely that most of the people in that country seek to become martyrs. The cult of martyrdom is strictly the business of the maniacs who seized power there in 1979, a reign of terror, extended by proxy around the whole Middle East and beyond.
Entwined with Iran’s oil business, and the energy security of many nations, the mullahs inflect the trade of this primary resource with their chaos. The world cannot cope with chaos in the oil trade. The collapsing regime of the mullahs wants to go out turning the entire world into a martyr. Just like the Democratic Party wants to martyr the founding principles of the USA to preserve its matrix of moneygrubbing and power-seeking. These are two forces that require the most severe discipline and Mr. Trump is acting to impose exactly that. It’s painful to witness, but it must happen if we want to continue the human project as a reality-based enterprise.
So, heed what is at stake in the events unspooling. This is a dark moment in a journey back to daylight. Have faith. As the old American hymn goes: Farther along we’ll know more about it; farther along we’ll understand why.

Commentary:
John Kunstler's thesis reflects a common sentiment found in modern political commentary regarding the "old order" or "establishment." The idea suggests that entrenched leaders would rather see institutions fail than relinquish control.
Even posts on this board many of the discussions often center on whether the "death of American capitalism" or the dismantling of agencies like USAID represents a shift toward "oligarchic nihilism," where the ruling class prioritizes its own power over the survival of the system.
Certainly we've been warned by our forefathers and those that came after by people like Thomas Jefferson and
Abraham Lincoln who warned of the internal collapse of democracy if the 'Rights Of The People' were secondary to the interests of those in power.
Today's political landscape in the U.S. is marked by significant turmoil. Many believe that those in power are prioritizing their interests over the well-being of the nation. This has led to widespread discontent among the populace.
We saw that beginning in 2020 with the "Summer of Love" and the Stolen election followed by a pseudo presidency supposed led by an Alzheimer's riddled septuagenarian that began work at 12:00 PM and closed shop at 3:00 PM.
Indeed, many Americans wondered then who was really running the country.
Yet, today the same political leaders tell us the president elected to lead this country is tearing America apart.

What a wall of text.

Trump is failing.

 

[candycorn]

Nice pictures of what I had already explained......and apparently you can't discuss anything without focusing on 'the blob'. And as for 2024, Harris wasn't a strong candidate.......and btw I voted for Kennedy..

OK.

Can't tell me you never doubted Trumps 2016 win over Hillary.......but doesn't really matter.

I didn't. You can look it up.

In fact, I did it for you. You'll note it is the same logic I use to blow your doors off when you try to say there was election fraud. Why would the Russian hackers flip 3 states but not flip Virginia?

Thread 'Liberals Need to Accept Election Results'

Dec 12, 2016

As if that needed to be said!!!

Look, there are 2 separate questions here.

Did Russian hackers (or hackers of any nationality for that matter) try to influence the outcome of the 2016 Presidential Election. I would be shocked if they didn’t try. I’d be equally shocked if our election officials were so inept that they would allow such a hack to go unreported. While there is some truth to not wanting to reveal that you’ve been breached; there is zero chance that a breach would be kept under wraps.

Second question is this:

Did it influence the outcome of the...

• candycorn
• killshot
• Replies: 315
• Forum: Politics

• 

12/12/2016

Look, there are 2 separate questions here.

Did Russian hackers (or hackers of any nationality for that matter) try to influence the outcome of the 2016 Presidential Election. I would be shocked if they didn’t try. I’d be equally shocked if our election officials were so inept that they would allow such a hack to go unreported. While there is some truth to not wanting to reveal that you’ve been breached; there is zero chance that a breach would be kept under wraps.

Did it influence the outcome of the elections. I supported Ms. Clinton from the word “go” in both 2008 and 2016. I can tell you that if you think the answer is “yes”, you’re wearing blinders.

She lost because Trump ran the better campaign in 2016 and she lost in 2008 because Obama ran a better campaign then too as well. SHE IS A DISAPPOINTING CAMPAIGNER!!!! Some people got it and some people don’t. Whatever the secret sauce is that makes one pull a lever next to her name…she ain’t got it. Further evidence of this all-too-clear-fact are the states that Trump won. He won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Now, if he had won one of these states and lost the EV…someone like me would have said, “Hmm…that’s interesting.” Only because he won all 3 and won the EV do some folks like me (liberals) want to raise questions. To take this stance wounds your credibility. In the first place…One would have to wonder why the hackers spared Virginia—a very contentious state to be sure. Were they feeling generous? Secondly, the states that Mr. Trump did win are historically Blue states with solid governmental infrastructures. Are sensible persons to believe that the elections officials in 3 states have suddenly been retarded to the point where a hack would not be noticed…or reported…by anyone in that hierarchy of the group?

What I've been trying to get thru to you is that as long as one side or the other, question the system.......then that system isn't representative of everyone REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL CHOICE.

So?

If you want to call for an audit, get the audit and still say the outcome was not fair, you're the problem; not the system. Your indignation would be a lot more interesting if you had it when your guy won as well as when your guy lost.

"When the signals are down...the lights are all flashing and the whistle is screaming in vain....
And you lay on the tracks ignoring the facts; you can't blame the wreck on the train."​

 

[White 6]

Trump saw the love and savagery towards him from you guys. You guys just chose to. You did not even try to work with him. The first term with all that fun at the press conferences was just a tidbit. Of course, some of the forced established people in his administration sold him out quickly.

1. I don't work with presidents, any presidents PERIOD. It has been at least 14 years since I worked as a DOD contractor, working for people that answered to the President, and that well after I retired, and even further After I (on occasion) briefed people at the Pentagon that worked directly for the President, and brief him. Back then, I was not outspoken. Now, I am only outspoken on here, so not in position to work with him, and damn sure wouldn't work for him, as I don't have to. I admit, I never have voted for him. I am not stupid and never been one to blindly follow. Though when overseas, I was in position to have to act in reliance of powers above and Intel sources above whether trustworthy or not, and sometime knowing they were not.

2. I gave him an honest 9 months to grow into the job, after the start of his first 4 years in office. That is more than I owed him, and I found him highly lacking, for many of the reasons I didn't vote for him back then. He is worse this time around, and nobody accept the terminally stupid, or working for him, or both, owed him a second chance this time around, and again he has proven that negative judgment of his ability, methods, or intent correct, along with the pack of spineless sycophants in his cabinet or talking heads.

MAGA should sell him out, but they won't as they are followers, not thinking individuals. Organizations, especially the MAGA herd are for the non-thinking followers.

 

[IM2]

Bullshit. How can you say such stupid crap?

It's the truth.

 

[Clipper]

You’re Watching the Old Order Collapse…​

and the People Who Built It Would Rather Burn America Down Than Lose Power​

Farther Along

"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way." — General George S. Patton, Jr.

www.kunstler.com

9 Mar 2026 ~~ By John Howard Kunstler

Don’t lose the plot. Embrace the suck. This is the world’s hard time, for now. The birth of anything can be a bloody horror. It can even look like death. Don’t be too afraid to see what comes on the other side of this awful spectacle.
So many Americans are rooting and wishing for the Iran war to turn out badly for Western Civ. And why? Because Trump. And why? Because at the same time he is ending Iran’s long-running nuclear blackmail game, he is terminating the rackets of the Democratic Party. The incipient changes in operational order create new categories of winners and losers.
Now you know why Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists run on the same track as America’s Woke-Jacobin-Marxists, including the pitifully deluded wine ladies of posh West LA, Grosse Point, Beacon Hill, Fairfax County, et cetera, whose brains have been hijacked by the cable news demon factory (and their sponsors). Chaos does everything possible to avoid meeting order.
And this is why passing the SAVE Act is as consequential as ridding the Middle East of its chief chaos agent. Do you realize how perfectly insane our country’s election procedure has become? The fraud is titanic and right in your face, and the remedy is so plain and simple. What possible excuse is there to thwart it? Non-citizens have no right to vote. Mail-in ballots are patently subject to chicanery. Vote tabulation machines are demonstrably hackable. 80-percent of Americans know this is the truth. How is there controversy over this?
How? Because among all the broken institutions in our country, Congress is the worst. The Congress of our time is demonstrating that we might not be worthy of governing ourselves. We are at a cycle-low for public rectitude. Anything goes and nothing matters as long as the campaign contributions keep rolling in. You see how this has been going.
~Snip~
So, Mr. Trump, for all his flaws, attempts to bring order out of chaos at home and in global relations, and the agents of chaos mightily resent the shut-down of their precious chaos. With Iran, it has come to fighting fire with fire. It’s unlikely that most of the people in that country seek to become martyrs. The cult of martyrdom is strictly the business of the maniacs who seized power there in 1979, a reign of terror, extended by proxy around the whole Middle East and beyond.
Entwined with Iran’s oil business, and the energy security of many nations, the mullahs inflect the trade of this primary resource with their chaos. The world cannot cope with chaos in the oil trade. The collapsing regime of the mullahs wants to go out turning the entire world into a martyr. Just like the Democratic Party wants to martyr the founding principles of the USA to preserve its matrix of moneygrubbing and power-seeking. These are two forces that require the most severe discipline and Mr. Trump is acting to impose exactly that. It’s painful to witness, but it must happen if we want to continue the human project as a reality-based enterprise.
So, heed what is at stake in the events unspooling. This is a dark moment in a journey back to daylight. Have faith. As the old American hymn goes: Farther along we’ll know more about it; farther along we’ll understand why.

Commentary:
John Kunstler's thesis reflects a common sentiment found in modern political commentary regarding the "old order" or "establishment." The idea suggests that entrenched leaders would rather see institutions fail than relinquish control.
Even posts on this board many of the discussions often center on whether the "death of American capitalism" or the dismantling of agencies like USAID represents a shift toward "oligarchic nihilism," where the ruling class prioritizes its own power over the survival of the system.
Certainly we've been warned by our forefathers and those that came after by people like Thomas Jefferson and
Abraham Lincoln who warned of the internal collapse of democracy if the 'Rights Of The People' were secondary to the interests of those in power.
Today's political landscape in the U.S. is marked by significant turmoil. Many believe that those in power are prioritizing their interests over the well-being of the nation. This has led to widespread discontent among the populace.
We saw that beginning in 2020 with the "Summer of Love" and the Stolen election followed by a pseudo presidency supposed led by an Alzheimer's riddled septuagenarian that began work at 12:00 PM and closed shop at 3:00 PM.
Indeed, many Americans wondered then who was really running the country.
Yet, today the same political leaders tell us the president elected to lead this country is tearing America apart.

Trump & the incompetent asslicker's he appointed are a bigger threat to this Country then Iran ever was.

 

[IDIOCRACY]

You gotta be shittn' me. He is out for trump, not American. He just sells the MAGA routine blind followers. He should not have gone in, to help Israel with it's attack, though we should never have gotten in the way of Israel attacking Iran or it's proxies. But, the simple fact is nothing changed since he "obliterated" (his words) their nuclear program, and even his Secretary of State said Iran was not enriching. There was nothing that made him rush into this. He just chose to. The build up, for him was all on the military side, with no care for American's abroad or arrangements to get them out, as if the military build up was some kind of secret. Regional allies were not told. Heck our own front line and regional units, not directly involve from the jump weren't told. This probably led to some shooting down a plane or two of ours, by friendly fire.

I stopped reading at TDS

 

[BS Filter]

It's the truth.

Wrong. Congress has the job of election reform.

 

[IM2]

Nice pictures of what I had already explained......and apparently you can't discuss anything without focusing on 'the blob'. And as for 2024, Harris wasn't a strong candidate.......and btw I voted for Kennedy..


Can't tell me you never doubted Trumps 2016 win over Hillary.......but doesn't really matter.

What I've been trying to get thru to you is that as long as one side or the other, question the system.......then that system isn't representative of everyone REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL CHOICE.

The blob is the president, so he should be focused on just as much as you guys focused on Biden, and before him, Obama. In fact, you racists are still whining about Obama. Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump. So Trump's "victory" should have been doubted. Harris was a stronger candidate than Trump. She proved it when she beat his ass in that debate and made him run from another one.

You guys question the system only when you lose, and everything you questioned it about DOES NOT EXIST! You have been shown that time and time again. So the system is not the f-ng problem, you right-wingers are.

So learn this, because these are the rules you right wingers created. You are going to get done to you the same stuff you do to others. So stop your f-ng whining because you right-wingers do not get special privilege, and for far too long Democrats tried playing by the rules you guys claim to want to play by, but never did. So GFY with your crying about somebody focusing on Trump in every post or in every conversation.

 

[BS Filter]

The blob is the president, so he should be focused on just as much as you guys focused on Biden, and before him, Obama. In fact, you racists are still whining about Obama. Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump. So Trump's "victory" should have been doubted. Harris was a stronger candidate than Trump. She proved it when she beat his ass in that debate and made him run from another one.

You guys question the system only when you lose, and everything you questioned it about DOES NOT EXIST! You have been shown that time and time again. So the system is not the f-ng problem, you right-wingers are.

So learn this, because these are the rules you right wingers created. You are going to get done to you the same stuff you do to others. So stop your f-ng whining because you right-wingers do not get special privilege, and for far too long Democrats tried playing by the rules you guys claim to want to play by, but never did. So GFY with your crying about somebody focusing on Trump in every post or in every conversation.

Roses are red, violets are blue, Obama is a stupid lawn jockey and so are you.

 

[Failzero]

The Cloward / Piven / Color Revolution/ Summer of Love 2.0 will be bloody …

 

[bdtex]

And this is why passing the SAVE Act is as consequential as ridding the Middle East of its chief chaos agent.

Oh please. Get real for one minute.

 

[Failzero]

Oh please. Get real for one minute.

As real as a Summer of Love 2.0