You want to know the real reason people don't want to be liberals?

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Yes, And amazingly, it's not the Necrominicon. Reading it did not unleash the Great Old Ones to Destroy the world.

We have a problem with the Islamic world because we've MADE a problem. We created Saddam. We created Bin Laden. We whine when they turned on us, but what were we expecting, really?

I can't say I totally believe you just because you totally refused to read it and demonstrated little knowledge of its contents up to this point. What you have demonstrated is a working knowledge of DP talking points, like that all Islamic terrorism started when we started bombing their countries and stealing their oils, or that there have never been problems between the secular West and Islamic Middle East up to the invasion of Afghanistan. Do you even know why UBL became radicalized in the first place? Why he fought for the mujahidin against your Commie buddies? I can give you a reasonably solid background on the whole mess over there if I thought you would read it.

 

[danielpalos]

It is easier to Appeal to the Masses instead of sublime Truth (value) through argumentation?

 

[zeke]

And btw my neighbors on either side of me are retired millionaires, we get along fine, even helped the retired college professor build his shed last year

And you know this how? Did they come to you for financial advice? LMAO.
You probably even believe the retired professor agrees with your politics. Right?

We never talked politics, why?we always talked weather, gardening, the lake level, could he borrow my power tools, could I borrow his canoe. We talked about his carrier in designing old ticker tape computers and the like, his job at Michigan state, funny you should mention that
We never talked politics, why?

Because were Neighbors.

Dodged right around how you know they are millionaires didn't you?
And millionaires borrowing tools. That's funny. And what is a ticker tape computer?

Because we are feeling generous after my nap, I won't worry about whether or not we are using any form of proper English to construct sentences. Obviously, we are not.

 

[rightwinger]

You mean we still have slavery and women can't vote?

>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<
THAT IS NOT EVOLVING !!

Maybe if you are a white male

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Jesus was a liberal

Jesus was a conservative who brought down the big liberal central govt of Rome and created the age of the individual, or Republican individual freedom and liberty. The Bible is about how individuals should behave, not how governments should behave.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Jesus was a conservative who brought down the big liberal central govt of Rome and created the age of the individual, or Republican individual freedom and liberty. The Bible is about how individuals should behave, not how governments should behave.

This is not remotely what happened. At all. For one, Roman culture was anything but liberal. They prided themselves on their conservatism. Love of tradition was as high a Roman value as disdain for the foreigner. Jesus was a heretical religious leader who broke from the religious orthodoxy and advocated for the poor and criminal. Jesus' death had little to do with the "fall" of Rome, which occurred long after his death for several reasons, chief of which was their reliance on local mercenaries for their border security to the north and the invasion by the Germanic (and in at least one case Iranian) tribes. The early church was fairly communal centered, with believers working together and owning goods in common. Republicanism in the US sense didn't exist at the time. The Bible does talk a great deal about how rulers should behave and govern as well as personal behavior.

In short, there was absolutely no statement in your post that could be called entirely accurate.

 

[JoeB131]

I can't say I totally believe you just because you totally refused to read it and demonstrated little knowledge of its contents up to this point. What you have demonstrated is a working knowledge of DP talking points, like that all Islamic terrorism started when we started bombing their countries and stealing their oils, or that there have never been problems between the secular West and Islamic Middle East up to the invasion of Afghanistan. Do you even know why UBL became radicalized in the first place? Why he fought for the mujahidin against your Commie buddies? I can give you a reasonably solid background on the whole mess over there if I thought you would read it.

Actually, any "background' you come up with would be kind of retarded....

so I'm not sure I'd waste my time with it. Seriously, you've just kind of shown yourself to be a Fundi-tard idiot only worthy of mockery.

Okay, here's the problem. UBL did not become Radicalized when he knocked down the WTC. He was a radical when he went to Afghanistan to kill Russians because they were teaching girls how to read and Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter".

I guess you can go back to the Crusades or the Barbary Pirates to find examples of how "those people' were evil while we were totally good (except for all the times we weren't.)

Reality - HUMAN BEINGS have a long history of treating each other pretty shitty. Always have, always will. Sometimes we use Imaginary Sky Pixies to rationalize our shitty behavior, sometimes we use racism, sometimes we just straight up admit that the people we are slaughtering just have stuff we want.

So the real question I have is, if I'm not a Zionist Moron or an Oil Company investor, do I really have an interest in Invasion #15 of the Middle East, and we'll really get it right this time? Probably not.

Here's a whacky idea. Let's have a special elite Airborne Brigade that will be entirely made up of the Children o the 1%ers. The Rich and the Politicians. If you make over a certain wage or hold a major political office, your child is compelled to serve in the armed forces for 4 years from age 18-22, and the unit THEY are in will be the first deployed to any war zone where we are fighting for "Freedom" or whatever shit they try to pass off on us.

YOu know, instead of some working class kid.

Betcha they won't be talking smack so loudly then.

 

[JoeB131]

This is not remotely what happened. At all. For one, Roman culture was anything but liberal. They prided themselves on their conservatism. Love of tradition was as high a Roman value as disdain for the foreigner. Jesus was a heretical religious leader who broke from the religious orthodoxy and advocated for the poor and criminal. Jesus' death had little to do with the "fall" of Rome, which occurred long after his death for several reasons, chief of which was their reliance on local mercenaries for their border security to the north and the invasion by the Germanic (and in at least one case Iranian) tribes. The early church was fairly communal centered, with believers working together and owning goods in common. Republicanism in the US sense didn't exist at the time. The Bible does talk a great deal about how rulers should behave and govern as well as personal behavior.

Jesus wasn't executed by Rome.

Jesus never existed.

Jesus was made up by Saul of Tarses.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Actually, any "background' you come up with would be kind of retarded....

so I'm not sure I'd waste my time with it. Seriously, you've just kind of shown yourself to be a Fundi-tard idiot only worthy of mockery.

Of course not. Reading is a waste of time in general, right? Hence why you've never read the Qur'an, the Bible, any decent history of Afghanistan, or anything UBL ever wrote. I'll begin preparing an explanation for the wars we've been in and the events that led to them shortly. Feel free to ignore it. It'll be for the benefit of the educated.

Okay, here's the problem. UBL did not become Radicalized when he knocked down the WTC. He was a radical when he went to Afghanistan to kill Russians because they were teaching girls how to read and Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter".

This is exactly what I was saying. He was a fairly average rich Arab college kid until he met your pal Abdullah Azzam.

I guess you can go back to the Crusades or the Barbary Pirates to find examples of how "those people' were evil while we were totally good (except for all the times we weren't.)

Hey, remember the quote that prompted this topic? I know everyone else still does.

Reality - HUMAN BEINGS have a long history of treating each other pretty shitty. Always have, always will. Sometimes we use Imaginary Sky Pixies to rationalize our shitty behavior, sometimes we use racism, sometimes we just straight up admit that the people we are slaughtering just have stuff we want.

True but generally irrelevant to the fact that Islam is an idea set which is on the whole about as dangerous as Communism was and for the same basic reasons.

Here's a whacky idea. Let's have a special elite Airborne Brigade that will be entirely made up of the Children o the 1%ers. The Rich and the Politicians. If you make over a certain wage or hold a major political office, your child is compelled to serve in the armed forces for 4 years from age 18-22, and the unit THEY are in will be the first deployed to any war zone where we are fighting for "Freedom" or whatever shit they try to pass off on us.

Luckily, despite liberals' disdain for the concept of personal freedom, we have a volunteer military force and liberals can't currently legally force anyone into it against their will. I know I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want to be here. I don't want them downrange with me either.

YOu know, instead of some working class kid.

You know what's awesome? As some working class kid, I was living with my parents with no money, no job, no prospects, and no formal education to improve my lot in life. I stopped trying to find a minimum wage fast food job and found my local recruiter. We had some good talks. I scored well on some tests. Now my future is basically all set up for me so long as I stay out of trouble, continuously improve my skill set, and take advantage of all the opportunities the government is so gracious to provide me. Growing up in the projects doesn't mean you have to stay there. It just means you have to be willing to get off your ass and take responsibility for your own life.

Jesus wasn't executed by Rome.

Jesus never existed.

Jesus was made up by Saul of Tarses.

Actually, we can't know whether he was real or not. We have writings and oral traditions claiming that he did. We don't have a body or any portraits. We don't have any contemporary writings due to the widespread illiteracy of the day and the nature of early Christianity. It seems reasonable to assume that he existed, just as it's reasonable to assume many other historical figures, such as Socrates and and David, for whom we don't have much hard evidence existed. Even if that's not the case, my assessment still fits as the death of a mythological character would have had nothing to do with the reason for the conquest of western Rome. By the way, would you like to present any evidence supporting your assertion that he was invented by Saul? Or are you just relying on Zeitgeist to do your thinking for you at this point?

 

[Menerva Lindsen]

I don't care about what the real reasons are because they aren't important...

This is some of the best liberal reasoning I've seen yet. "**** the facts. We have an agenda to uphold."

Who are we taking about when we say "liberals?" And why are the only two options "liberal" or "conservative?" I'm neither and most people throughout history wouldn't choose either of those labels.
My point is: no, those advancements were made because of large, diverse popular movements (many of whom didn't consider themselves liberals) constantly fighting for them, often against the very politicians who would eventually have a sudden change of heart and take all the credit.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course not. Reading is a waste of time in general, right? Hence why you've never read the Qur'an, the Bible, any decent history of Afghanistan, or anything UBL ever wrote. I'll begin preparing an explanation for the wars we've been in and the events that led to them shortly. Feel free to ignore it. It'll be for the benefit of the educated.

Oh, please don't. Regurgitating whatever retarded shit you've read on "ISLAMISEVIL.COM" would really be kind of annoying and just make you look like a racist POS.

This is exactly what I was saying. He was a fairly average rich Arab college kid until he met your pal Abdullah Azzam.

No, guy, UBL was an extermist asshole when Ronnie was calling him a Freedom Fighter. Just another case of sticking our dicks in the Hornets Nest and whining about getting stung.

Hey, remember the quote that prompted this topic?

you mean the one you took out of context and left out the part where I pointed out you were a funditarded bigot who thinks his Sky Fairy is better than their sky Fairy? Yeah, I remember that.

True but generally irrelevant to the fact that Islam is an idea set which is on the whole about as dangerous as Communism was and for the same basic reasons.

Actually, Capitalism and Christianity have caused just as much misery. Which gets back to my point, Human Beings are generally sort of nasty to each other. but please keep believing your philosophy is so much better than theirs.

Luckily, despite liberals' disdain for the concept of personal freedom, we have a volunteer military force and liberals can't currently legally force anyone into it against their will. I know I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want to be here. I don't want them downrange with me either.

Well, now that we've discovered that the All-Volunteer Army doesn't work in wartime, maybe it's time to try something else. Clearly, when you have the same National Guard Units being rotated into combat zones until they are literally exhausted and the Army has to lower the standards to take mutants like Bowe Berghdal and Bradley...er Chelsea Manning because people aren't signing up for the meat grinder. YOu have a draft and you make sure the rich kids end up there, people will think twice before a lying president gets us into a war.

You know what's awesome? As some working class kid, I was living with my parents with no money, no job, no prospects, and no formal education to improve my lot in life. I stopped trying to find a minimum wage fast food job and found my local recruiter. We had some good talks. I scored well on some tests. Now my future is basically all set up for me so long as I stay out of trouble, continuously improve my skill set, and take advantage of all the opportunities the government is so gracious to provide me. Growing up in the projects doesn't mean you have to stay there. It just means you have to be willing to get off your ass and take responsibility for your own life.

You know what, I was a middle class kid who signed up for the Army. and I did pretty well, even got to the rank of Staff Sergeant. and then the Gulf War happened, and I realized that I wasn't there fighting for America, I was their fighting for the Oil Companies and the Zionists who manipulated us into a war with a country that wasn't our enemy. So I cashed out my chips and didn't re-enlist. Not that the military isn't a bad place for vocational training, but we could do just as well investing that in projects that benefit America and no one comes home wiht PTSD or missing limbs.

Actually, we can't know whether he was real or not. We have writings and oral traditions claiming that he did. We don't have a body or any portraits. We don't have any contemporary writings due to the widespread illiteracy of the day and the nature of early Christianity. It seems reasonable to assume that he existed, just as it's reasonable to assume many other historical figures, such as Socrates and and David, for whom we don't have much hard evidence existed. Even if that's not the case, my assessment still fits as the death of a mythological character would have had nothing to do with the reason for the conquest of western Rome. By the way, would you like to present any evidence supporting your assertion that he was invented by Saul? Or are you just relying on Zeitgeist to do your thinking for you at this point?

Actually, if you just read the bible, and see all the contradictions in the texts, particularly in the Gospels who can't agree on when Jesus was even born, then you realize, yup, this was someone they made up out of whole cloth.

 

[danielpalos]

...because they don't want to be "upset" that the former Soviets "let us win" the Cold War on a platform of "we get what we pay for" instead of the "best things in life are free".

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Oh, please don't. Regurgitating whatever retarded shit you've read on "ISLAMISEVIL.COM" would really be kind of annoying and just make you look like a racist POS.

I rebuke the conservatives who frequent these sites. My information on Islam comes from reading Qur'an, being familiar with the ahadith of Bukhari and Muslim, familiarity with the life stories of Muhammad and Abu Bakr, reading the general history of Islam, and conversations with Muslim scholars over the years (one of whom was a trained faqih and is most likely with IS or dead after affiliating with IS right now). Islam doesn't include a racial component, btw. Just for your SA. Muhammad bought and immediately freed Bilal, who was a black man and the first muezzen to demonstrate this fact. Real Islam is a nation-state of believers. The traditional definition of a nation as an ethnic state just doesn't apply.

No, guy, UBL was an extermist asshole when Ronnie was calling him a Freedom Fighter. Just another case of sticking our dicks in the Hornets Nest and whining about getting stung.

You're talking about after the MB recruited him. I'm talking about the radicalization process itself.

Actually, Capitalism and Christianity have caused just as much misery. Which gets back to my point, Human Beings are generally sort of nasty to each other. but please keep believing your philosophy is so much better than theirs.

Capitalism and Christianity are also irrelevant to the discussion. I'm sure we'd agree on the subjects of companies relying on third world slave labor, Christian radicalis, and fundie backwoods terrorists, but these are subjects best suited for threads of their own. They're too important to be used in cynical attempts to derail a conversation about your Islamist buddies doing the same things.

Luckily, despite liberals' disdain for the concept of personal freedom, we have a volunteer military force and liberals can't currently legally force anyone into it against their will. I know I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want to be here. I don't want them downrange with me either.

Well, now that we've discovered that the All-Volunteer Army doesn't work in wartime, maybe it's time to try something else. Clearly, when you have the same National Guard Units being rotated into combat zones until they are literally exhausted and the Army has to lower the standards to take mutants like Bowe Berghdal and Bradley...er Chelsea Manning because people aren't signing up for the meat grinder. YOu have a draft and you make sure the rich kids end up there, people will think twice before a lying president gets us into a war.

Bradley was with the Army beforehand. Allegedly all the instructors at Goodfellow AFB tried to get him kicked out while he was a student. They didn't let him go for whatever reason. Are you aware that we're actually letting people go because we just can't afford our Iraq War II numbers anymore? People are, in fact, signing up. It's just more than we can employ at present. So yeah. Sorry, but you're still not getting your wish of sending me downrange with some half trained kid who doesn't even want to be here and will probably panic and get us both killed.

You know what, I was a middle class kid who signed up for the Army. and I did pretty well, even got to the rank of Staff Sergeant. and then the Gulf War happened, and I realized that I wasn't there fighting for America, I was their fighting for the Oil Companies and the Zionists who manipulated us into a war with a country that wasn't our enemy. So I cashed out my chips and didn't re-enlist. Not that the military isn't a bad place for vocational training, but we could do just as well investing that in projects that benefit America and no one comes home wiht PTSD or missing limbs.

Holy shit. You were a staff sergeant? That... makes me sad. I'm glad that my branch and AFSC are more selective when it comes to recruiting and retention. I do want to say I agree that with your last point though. We could do with civilian projects like that. I still don't understand why nobody wants to use the TVA anymore. We could totally put all these unemployed high school kids (like I was until a few years ago) to work fixing these roads or something.

Actually, if you just read the bible, and see all the contradictions in the texts, particularly in the Gospels who can't agree on when Jesus was even born, then you realize, yup, this was someone they made up out of whole cloth.

I'm aware of the contradictions. I'm also aware that the New Testament was passed around in fragments until its compilation into one standard work by various synods. The Qur'an has the same basic issue. If you knew any Arabic whatsoever, you would know that its name is literally The Recitation. It's meant to be oral. And it was primarily oral originally. People would memorize the entire thing verbatim and recite it to others. This only changed when so many of those people were dying in battle that there was a significant risk of losing it entirely. Uthman had to commission the most authentic version he could find and burned every other copy with textual variants. That's why there's only one Arabic version of the Qur'an. There are a lot of different translations, but, Islamically, they're considered commentaries subordinate to the Arabic original.

 

[JoeB131]

Holy shit. You were a staff sergeant? That... makes me sad. I'm glad that my branch and AFSC are more selective when it comes to recruiting and retention.

Yes, I disagree with your bigotry and stupidity at age 53, so that must mean I wasn't a good soldier when I was 26. Yup. Makes perfect sense.

I'm aware of the contradictions. I'm also aware that the New Testament was passed around in fragments until its compilation into one standard work by various synods. The Qur'an has the same basic issue.

Guy, it seems to me that you have this weird obsession with Islam, where you want to constantly steer the subject back to that. The problem with the contradictions in the bible is that they were on points that SHOULD not be in dispute, like when Jesus was born and under what circumstances, not to mention incidents in Matthew someone else would have remembered- like the slaughter of the innocents and the Zombies.

Bradley was with the Army beforehand. Allegedly all the instructors at Goodfellow AFB tried to get him kicked out while he was a student. They didn't let him go for whatever reason. Are you aware that we're actually letting people go because we just can't afford our Iraq War II numbers anymore? People are, in fact, signing up. It's just more than we can employ at present. So yeah. Sorry, but you're still not getting your wish of sending me downrange with some half trained kid who doesn't even want to be here and will probably panic and get us both killed.

You totally missed my point about wanting to draft Rich People's kids. The point was, you send rich people's kids to the wars instead of poor people's kids, you aren't going to have wars over bullshit. You won't have wars unless there's a DAMNED GOOD REASON.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Yes, I disagree with your bigotry and stupidity at age 53, so that must mean I wasn't a good soldier when I was 26. Yup. Makes perfect sense.

I don't doubt you were an adequate soldier. I just... have a feeling you weren't really the best fit. What was your MOS if you're okay with giving it on here? I'm going to say right now that I'm not going to share my AFSC for my own reasons, so if you decline then it's not a subject I'm going to press.

Guy, it seems to me that you have this weird obsession with Islam, where you want to constantly steer the subject back to that. The problem with the contradictions in the bible is that they were on points that SHOULD not be in dispute, like when Jesus was born and under what circumstances, not to mention incidents in Matthew someone else would have remembered- like the slaughter of the innocents and the Zombies.

I know, right? It's weird how conservatives find it annoying when liberals try to change the subject to Christianity or the Bible or crazy shit Republicans have been saying or doing lately or any other subject except the one currently under discussion. It's probably because they're racist against Muslims and Wiccans.

You totally missed my point about wanting to draft Rich People's kids. The point was, you send rich people's kids to the wars instead of poor people's kids, you aren't going to have wars over bullshit. You won't have wars unless there's a DAMNED GOOD REASON.

You might be right. Politicians probably would be less inclined to resort to military force if the military were staffed solely with their conscripted children. My point was that your dream is as unrealistic as it is anti-American/liberal, and that quite frankly I prefer to work with people who know what work is rather than some whiney ass rich kid who's going to balk at the idea of a GI party.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't doubt you were an adequate soldier. I just... have a feeling you weren't really the best fit. What was your MOS if you're okay with giving it on here? I'm going to say right now that I'm not going to share my AFSC for my own reasons, so if you decline then it's not a subject I'm going to press.

Oh, I see. You don't want to talk about what you did, but you want me to talk about what I did. That's kind of gutless.

For the record, my MOS was 76Y30. I was a supply Sergeant. And I was damned good at it. I had 100% accountability of unit equipment and property and my troops always had everything they needed to operate. And they thought I was awesome because 'Sergeant B. Looks out for us."

I know, right? It's weird how conservatives find it annoying when liberals try to change the subject to Christianity or the Bible or crazy shit Republicans have been saying or doing lately or any other subject except the one currently under discussion. It's probably because they're racist against Muslims and Wiccans.

Or we just realize that most Conservatives are tools who just wait to hear shit like "Muzzies are Evil" from the fat drug addicted homo on Hate Radio, and fail to apply any critical thinking skills.

Now, here's the thing. If an Army of Muslims landed in Florida and were moving up the coast, I'd be right with you that we needed to stop that shit.

That they are fighting amongst themselves and with the Zionists and threatening the profits of Oil Companies... Meh, not so much. And I'm certainly not going to take the Koran verse you've taken out of context when I can just as happily share a Bible verse that sounds a lot worse.

You might be right. Politicians probably would be less inclined to resort to military force if the military were staffed solely with their conscripted children. My point was that your dream is as unrealistic as it is anti-American/liberal, and that quite frankly I prefer to work with people who know what work is rather than some whiney ass rich kid who's going to balk at the idea of a GI party.

here's the thing. When we had conscript armies, we win wars.

It's when conscription becomes selective or it's only poor kids signing up we don't get too keen on winning. Whether it's the "War on an Emotional State" where it's the same poor kids getting run through the meat grinder or Vietnam where Rush and Bush and Quayle and Cheney all found ways to avoid it, when you make participation in a war voluntary to those dumb enough to sign up, there's no sense of urgency to you know, win.

World War II, the rich served. People were conscripted. And we beat three of the world's richest countries in less than four years.

"Voluntary" wars, we just let those drag on for years because, hey, no one is in a hurry to win them. Not my kid coming back in a body bag.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"You want to know the real reason people don't want to be liberals?"

Chronic Hemorrhoids?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

It's when conscription becomes selective or it's only poor kids signing up we don't get too keen on winning. Whether it's the "War on an Emotional State" where it's the same poor kids getting run through the meat grinder or Vietnam where Rush and Bush and Quayle and Cheney all found ways to avoid it, when you make participation in a war voluntary to those dumb enough to sign up, there's no sense of urgency to you know, win.

You're an imbecile.

We won wars DIRECTLY UP TO THE POINT where, Progressives demanded that instead of winning the war, we 'win the hearts and minds' of those we should be defeating.

So the US has been crippled militarily, by the Ideological Left. But... In fairness, the US has also been crippled economically, culturally and morally by the Ideological Left.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Oh, I see. You don't want to talk about what you did, but you want me to talk about what I did. That's kind of gutless.

For the record, my MOS was 76Y30. I was a supply Sergeant. And I was damned good at it. I had 100% accountability of unit equipment and property and my troops always had everything they needed to operate. And they thought I was awesome because 'Sergeant B. Looks out for us."

I didn't "want to talk about it". I was curious what it was. I have reasons for not discussing what I do (like personal safety) and mentioned them as being a reason I'm not going to press this issue. You did remind me I need to start studying to test for staff in a month or two though.

76Y30 seems to be armorer btw. Did it change to 92Y since then? I worked for an Army armorer back in tech school. He was... a good enough guy. I used to fill my time that wasn't spent counting bags of MOPP gear or cleaning guns trolling him. My favorite was to ask if M9 tape is for M9s.

Or we just realize that most Conservatives are tools who just wait to hear shit like "Muzzies are Evil" from the fat drug addicted homo on Hate Radio, and fail to apply any critical thinking skills.

Good thing I haven't said "Muzzies are Evil" or endorsed Rush Limbaugh. What I said is that the religion as laid down in the Qur'an and exemplified by Muhammad and the first three caliphs is an inherently dangerous ideology that holds the creation of a global state under the caliph as an eventual goal. The true believers are and have been working to make this goal a reality. The vast majority of Muslims are as practicing as the vast majority of Christians and disregard those aspects of their faith, if they're even more than vaguely aware of them.

Now, here's the thing. If an Army of Muslims landed in Florida and were moving up the coast, I'd be right with you that we needed to stop that shit.

I'm not really sure if that's any more truthful than your previous claims.

That they are fighting amongst themselves and with the Zionists and threatening the profits of Oil Companies... Meh, not so much. And I'm certainly not going to take the Koran verse you've taken out of context when I can just as happily share a Bible verse that sounds a lot worse.

I didn't quote the Qur'an, actually. I think you'd understand why half the shit you've said about it is kind of retarded if you ever bothered to read it. You don't really seem to realize it's not the Bible but with Allah instead of Teh Lorde.

here's the thing. When we had conscript armies, we win wars.

It's when conscription becomes selective or it's only poor kids signing up we don't get too keen on winning. Whether it's the "War on an Emotional State" where it's the same poor kids getting run through the meat grinder or Vietnam where Rush and Bush and Quayle and Cheney all found ways to avoid it, when you make participation in a war voluntary to those dumb enough to sign up, there's no sense of urgency to you know, win.

World War II, the rich served. People were conscripted. And we beat three of the world's richest countries in less than four years.

"Voluntary" wars, we just let those drag on for years because, hey, no one is in a hurry to win them. Not my kid coming back in a body bag.

Luckily we don't have conscription. We have a volunteer force. If you're not willing to fight, then don't find the recruiter and sign the contract. We don't want anyone who isn't willing to uphold their oath of enlistment. That's kind of why we have it: to tell you what will be expected of you if you choose to take on the responsibility. And I'm damn sure not about to place my life in the hands of some spoiled jackass who doesn't even want to be here - even if that's a risk you're more than willing to make.

Terrorism and the emotion of terror are two different things, btw. Terrorists aren't just scared people.

 

[JoeB131]

You're an imbecile.

We won wars DIRECTLY UP TO THE POINT where, Progressives demanded that instead of winning the war, we 'win the hearts and minds' of those we should be defeating.

So the US has been crippled militarily, by the Ideological Left. But... In fairness, the US has also been crippled economically, culturally and morally by the Ideological Left.

Guy, Republicans were running the show during those wars, and they didn't seem to keen on winning as long as there were profits to be made by dragging them out.

Put Rich Kids in the meat grinder, you are suddenly going to find a sense of urgency.