You are going on a wilderness adventure...

[Spoonman]

i'm still going with te savage 24. 30-30/ 12guage. smaller game you can snare or trap. you have something large enough for big game and protection. if you are bringing down something big, it lasts longer and you need less ammo. I deer will feed you longer then 50 rabbits, 1 moose, more then a few hundred rabbits. plus if by chance you have a mechanical failure on one, you still have the other.

 

[Missourian]

i'm still going with te savage 24. 30-30/ 12guage. smaller game you can snare or trap. you have something large enough for big game and protection. if you are bringing down something big, it lasts longer and you need less ammo. I deer will feed you longer then 50 rabbits, 1 moose, more then a few hundred rabbits. plus if by chance you have a mechanical failure on one, you still have the other.

Adding a Pathfinder eight inch rifled 12 gauge to .22lr adapter gives the option of converting the lower barrel for small game.

This is probably the closest to a one gun solution as we have so far.

The set back is, configured for small game, you have one 30-30 shot, and a .22 for a last ditch Hail Mary in the event of a predator attack.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

i'm still going with te savage 24. 30-30/ 12guage. smaller game you can snare or trap. you have something large enough for big game and protection. if you are bringing down something big, it lasts longer and you need less ammo. I deer will feed you longer then 50 rabbits, 1 moose, more then a few hundred rabbits. plus if by chance you have a mechanical failure on one, you still have the other.

Thats assuming you know how to preserve the meat or it's winter.

 

[Missourian]

i'm still going with te savage 24. 30-30/ 12guage. smaller game you can snare or trap. you have something large enough for big game and protection. if you are bringing down something big, it lasts longer and you need less ammo. I deer will feed you longer then 50 rabbits, 1 moose, more then a few hundred rabbits. plus if by chance you have a mechanical failure on one, you still have the other.

Thats assuming you know how to preserve the meat or it's winter.

Good point.

McCandless managed to kill a moose with his .22LR Remington Nylon 66...

He tried to preserve it in chunks instead of strips and it went bad.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

i'm still going with te savage 24. 30-30/ 12guage. smaller game you can snare or trap. you have something large enough for big game and protection. if you are bringing down something big, it lasts longer and you need less ammo. I deer will feed you longer then 50 rabbits, 1 moose, more then a few hundred rabbits. plus if by chance you have a mechanical failure on one, you still have the other.

Thats assuming you know how to preserve the meat or it's winter.

Good point.

McCandless managed to kill a moose with his .22LR Remington Nylon 66...

He tried to preserve it in chunks instead of strips and it went bad.

My first thought when I saw that was....why the hell didnt he gather wood and prepare his smoker BEFORE he shot the moose.
I was watching that reality show filmed about living in the wilds of Alaska.
That guy had it down. His wife was fishing while he made a smoker with three limbs and a small tarp. They smoked a shitload of salmon in a few days then headed home.
And if I remember correctly McClandless didnt do any fishing. The guy was woefully unprepared.

 

[Missourian]

Thats assuming you know how to preserve the meat or it's winter.

Good point.

McCandless managed to kill a moose with his .22LR Remington Nylon 66...

He tried to preserve it in chunks instead of strips and it went bad.

My first thought when I saw that was....why the hell didnt he gather wood and prepare his smoker BEFORE he shot the moose.
I was watching that reality show filmed about living in the wilds of Alaska.
That guy had it down. His wife was fishing while he made a smoker with three limbs and a small tarp. They smoked a shitload of salmon in a few days then headed home.
And if I remember correctly McClandless didnt do any fishing. The guy was woefully unprepared.

I rented the movie the other night...he had a fishing pole and fish net...as far as I know, he didn't use it.

He has a map too, but no compass.

I don't think he stood a chance of preserving read meat in that environment without salt.

 

[Missourian]

Check this out...

Over/under 12/30-06, 12/308, 12/762x39 and 12/.233 with wood furniture...a little pricey @ MSRP $745...but intriguing...

https://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/mp94-series-combo-shotgunrifle/


PS....the new Savage model 24 (the model 42) looks like a POC.

 

[editec]

The kid was a dumb ass,I was on a small tributary of the Susitna the summer after he was found,the Anchorage paper had a large piece about his fool hardy misadventure,he was from the DC burbs and had gotten himself in trouble before doing a similar thing,he was just miles from a ranger cabin,unmanned but supplied,no map no life.Nature is amazing,but very indifferent.

Thats kind of the impression I got. City boy WAY out of his element.
If the fool hadn't found the bus he wouldn't have survived as long as he did.
And I asked the question....if the damn bus could make it out there,there had to be a way back. And if the bus was there it's not like he was a hundred miles from nowhere.

Idealistic moron???? ....Yeah.

Got himself killed for it,the spruce grouse up there are a dumb as rocks you can just about walk right up to them,should have never starved.

He slowly starved because he ate a plant that poisoned him and made it impossible for him to digest food.

He was trapped by a rising river and therefore could not get out to get the help he needed.

Pretty crummy way to die, eh?

But he had plenty food, he just could not digest it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Thats kind of the impression I got. City boy WAY out of his element.
If the fool hadn't found the bus he wouldn't have survived as long as he did.
And I asked the question....if the damn bus could make it out there,there had to be a way back. And if the bus was there it's not like he was a hundred miles from nowhere.

Idealistic moron???? ....Yeah.

Got himself killed for it,the spruce grouse up there are a dumb as rocks you can just about walk right up to them,should have never starved.

He slowly starved because he ate a plant that poisoned him and made it impossible for him to digest food.

He was trapped by a rising river and therefore could not get out to get the help he needed.

Pretty crummy way to die, eh?

But he had plenty food, he just could not digest it.

He ate those berries that looked like the edible type....whoops!! But anyway you look at it,his inexperience got him killed.
But you would still have to think there was a way out. If the bus made it out there you would think there was bridge somewhere.

 

[hoosier88]

Good point.

McCandless managed to kill a moose with his .22LR Remington Nylon 66...

He tried to preserve it in chunks instead of strips and it went bad.

My first thought when I saw that was....why the hell didnt he gather wood and prepare his smoker BEFORE he shot the moose.
I was watching that reality show filmed about living in the wilds of Alaska.
That guy had it down. His wife was fishing while he made a smoker with three limbs and a small tarp. They smoked a shitload of salmon in a few days then headed home.
And if I remember correctly McClandless didnt do any fishing. The guy was woefully unprepared.

I rented the movie the other night...he had a fishing pole and fish net...as far as I know, he didn't use it.

He has a map too, but no compass.

I don't think he stood a chance of preserving read meat in that environment without salt.

(My bold)

I read the book - Into the wild. The author says McCandless was too optimistic, but he'd survived in desert for months @ a time with just rice & whatever he could hunt/fish/edibile plants he could ID. He had a copy of a book on AK plants & edible bits. He'd also asked advice on hunting, preserving meat. Unfortunately, the advice he got (in the MW) was to smoke the meat. He had problems with flies, maggots, etc. The author points out that the way to do that in AK is to air dry the meat, cut into strips.

There was actually an old surveying bridge - more of a zip line & basket, really, upstream. McCandless didn't have a large-scale topographic map, which would have shown the bridge. So he retreated to his bus, & waited for the river to recede.

 

[koshergrl]

I was reading this thread (http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...e-stupid-but-can-we-make-them-pay-for-it.html)...that referenced the book "Into the Wild", in which the story culminates with Chris McCandless' adventure, unprepared, into Alaska's last frontier...it got me to speculating about, if I could only take one, what firearm would I take on an extended solo wilderness adventure.

So I ask you, if you could only take one gun into the wilds of the backwoods, what would it be?

I didn't read the book but I saw the movie. It's not something I would do unless forced. The few times I've been camping have been punctuated with bug bites and rainy nights. I do like a rustic cabin now and again.

Much as I think a shotgun would be the way to go, a .22 and lots of bear/wolf repellent probably would fill the bill. Both are pretty shy creatures despite their strength and size.

Along with a map and a compass...

It isn't the shy ones you need to worry about.

 

[hoosier88]

Got himself killed for it,the spruce grouse up there are a dumb as rocks you can just about walk right up to them,should have never starved.

He slowly starved because he ate a plant that poisoned him and made it impossible for him to digest food.

He was trapped by a rising river and therefore could not get out to get the help he needed.

Pretty crummy way to die, eh?

But he had plenty food, he just could not digest it.

He ate those berries that looked like the edible type....whoops!! But anyway you look at it,his inexperience got him killed.But you would still have to think there was a way out. If the bus made it out there you would think there was bridge somewhere.

(My bold)

The movie must shortcut the info in the book, I haven't seen the movie. McCandless correctly IDed an edible wild potato-like tuber, the book said the tubers were edible, in season (but they become hard & indigestible out of season). There is also a closely related plant that looks v. much like the potato-like plant. The field guide McCandless had didn't mention that the seeds of the lookalike are slow poison - incidents of such poisoning are v. rare, because you have to ingest a lot of it. The author of Into the wild thinks that McCandless switched from the increasingly inedible tubers, incorrectly IDed the lookalike, switched to eating the seeds, ate a lot, & the poison persists in the body.

To flush the poison from the system, you need a lot of protein & fats - McCandless was losing weight all the time he was out there in AK - the poison meant he would have had to have eaten prodigious amounts of food (& stopped eating the poisonous seeds), & he just couldn't gather that much food. He may have understood he was eating the wrong plant, there @ the end. Too late to do anything about it.

The author points out - winter in AK is when it's easiest to travel, physically. (The rivers, swamps, etc. freeze - like a highway. But food is a problem then.) There was no bridge, someone dragged 3 old buses in as hunting shelters. The other 2 were gone.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

My first thought when I saw that was....why the hell didnt he gather wood and prepare his smoker BEFORE he shot the moose.
I was watching that reality show filmed about living in the wilds of Alaska.
That guy had it down. His wife was fishing while he made a smoker with three limbs and a small tarp. They smoked a shitload of salmon in a few days then headed home.
And if I remember correctly McClandless didnt do any fishing. The guy was woefully unprepared.

I rented the movie the other night...he had a fishing pole and fish net...as far as I know, he didn't use it.

He has a map too, but no compass.

I don't think he stood a chance of preserving read meat in that environment without salt.

(My bold)

I read the book - Into the wild. The author says McCandless was too optimistic, but he'd survived in desert for months @ a time with just rice & whatever he could hunt/fish/edibile plants he could ID. He had a copy of a book on AK plants & edible bits. He'd also asked advice on hunting, preserving meat. Unfortunately, the advice he got (in the MW) was to smoke the meat. He had problems with flies, maggots, etc. The author points out that the way to do that in AK is to air dry the meat, cut into strips.

There was actually an old surveying bridge - more of a zip line & basket, really, upstream. McCandless didn't have a large-scale topographic map, which would have shown the bridge. So he retreated to his bus, & waited for the river to recede.

He was trying to make jerky. You need a certain amount of heat to kill bacteria so air drying isn't a good idea. And the smoke not only cures the meat it also keeps the flies away. But even jerky has a limited shelf life without refrigeration.

It does sound like he had some skills,just not the ones needed for Alaska. Live and Lear......never mind.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

He slowly starved because he ate a plant that poisoned him and made it impossible for him to digest food.

He was trapped by a rising river and therefore could not get out to get the help he needed.

Pretty crummy way to die, eh?

But he had plenty food, he just could not digest it.

He ate those berries that looked like the edible type....whoops!! But anyway you look at it,his inexperience got him killed.But you would still have to think there was a way out. If the bus made it out there you would think there was bridge somewhere.

(My bold)

The movie must shortcut the info in the book, I haven't seen the movie. McCandless correctly IDed an edible wild potato-like tuber, the book said the tubers were edible, in season (but they become hard & indigestible out of season). There is also a closely related plant that looks v. much like the potato-like plant. The field guide McCandless had didn't mention that the seeds of the lookalike are slow poison - incidents of such poisoning are v. rare, because you have to ingest a lot of it. The author of Into the wild thinks that McCandless switched from the increasingly inedible tubers, incorrectly IDed the lookalike, switched to eating the seeds, ate a lot, & the poison persists in the body.

To flush the poison from the system, you need a lot of protein & fats - McCandless was losing weight all the time he was out there in AK - the poison meant he would have had to have eaten prodigious amounts of food (& stopped eating the poisonous seeds), & he just couldn't gather that much food. He may have understood he was eating the wrong plant, there @ the end. Too late to do anything about it.

The author points out - winter in AK is when it's easiest to travel, physically. (The rivers, swamps, etc. freeze - like a highway. But food is a problem then.) There was no bridge, someone dragged 3 old buses in as hunting shelters. The other 2 were gone.

Movies never do justice to the book. I'm sure there's a shitload of info left out. I'll have to read it.

 

[hoosier88]

I rented the movie the other night...he had a fishing pole and fish net...as far as I know, he didn't use it.

He has a map too, but no compass.

I don't think he stood a chance of preserving read meat in that environment without salt.

(My bold)

I read the book - Into the wild. The author says McCandless was too optimistic, but he'd survived in desert for months @ a time with just rice & whatever he could hunt/fish/edibile plants he could ID. He had a copy of a book on AK plants & edible bits. He'd also asked advice on hunting, preserving meat. Unfortunately, the advice he got (in the MW) was to smoke the meat. He had problems with flies, maggots, etc. The author points out that the way to do that in AK is to air dry the meat, cut into strips.

There was actually an old surveying bridge - more of a zip line & basket, really, upstream. McCandless didn't have a large-scale topographic map, which would have shown the bridge. So he retreated to his bus, & waited for the river to recede.

He was trying to make jerky. You need a certain amount of heat to kill bacteria so air drying isn't a good idea. And the smoke not only cures the meat it also keeps the flies away. But even jerky has a limited shelf life without refrigeration.

It does sound like he had some skills,just not the ones needed for Alaska. Live and Lear......never mind.

(My bold) I don't know, the book's author didn't say if jerky was the goal for McCandless. Certainly cutting it into chunks - instead of strips - wasn't the way to go. He was trying to smoke the meat, but McCandless noted that it wasn't working - he couldn't generate enough heat/smoke? Air-drying strips is what the author reports would have worked - that also works in Navajo country. Certainly a whole moose would have solved McCandless' food problem, & helped with the slow poisoning problem.

By the account in the book, he was brilliant. He wrote software - his dad was a big name in SAR radar, McCandless played 3 instruments well, sang well, was a good student (when the subject interested him), was a prize-winning long-distance runner. He overestimated his survival skills, especially for the AK environment. But he was young ...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

(My bold)

I read the book - Into the wild. The author says McCandless was too optimistic, but he'd survived in desert for months @ a time with just rice & whatever he could hunt/fish/edibile plants he could ID. He had a copy of a book on AK plants & edible bits. He'd also asked advice on hunting, preserving meat. Unfortunately, the advice he got (in the MW) was to smoke the meat. He had problems with flies, maggots, etc. The author points out that the way to do that in AK is to air dry the meat, cut into strips.

There was actually an old surveying bridge - more of a zip line & basket, really, upstream. McCandless didn't have a large-scale topographic map, which would have shown the bridge. So he retreated to his bus, & waited for the river to recede.

He was trying to make jerky. You need a certain amount of heat to kill bacteria so air drying isn't a good idea. And the smoke not only cures the meat it also keeps the flies away. But even jerky has a limited shelf life without refrigeration.

It does sound like he had some skills,just not the ones needed for Alaska. Live and Lear......never mind.

(My bold) I don't know, the book's author didn't say if jerky was the goal for McCandless. Certainly cutting it into chunks - instead of strips - wasn't the way to go. He was trying to smoke the meat, but McCandless noted that it wasn't working - he couldn't generate enough heat/smoke? Air-drying strips is what the author reports would have worked - that also works in Navajo country. Certainly a whole moose would have solved McCandless' food problem, & helped with the slow poisoning problem.

By the account in the book, he was brilliant. He wrote software - his dad was a big name in SAR radar, McCandless played 3 instruments well, sang well, was a good student (when the subject interested him), was a prize-winning long-distance runner. He overestimated his survival skills, especially for the AK environment. But he was young ...

Just smoking the meat wont do it.Thats just BBQ. And you're right about cutting into strips not chunks.
You dont want it any thicker then A quarter inch or it wont dry properly.
And yes you can air dry meat. It's just a lot easier to use smoke and some mild heat to help with sanitation and to speed the process. And of course it's pretty tasty that way to,assuming you dont use the wrong type of wood.
I've seen people place sliced meat between two return air filters then hang it in front of a fan to dry. The filters and the wind keep the bugs off and the fan speeds the process.

When I make jerky the actual drying process takes about twelve hours in a dehydrator.
If I make it in the smoker the old fashioned way I increase the heat slightly so the meat doesnt get to smokey and I make sure the logs have burned down to coals. Just like in BBQ it's a good idea to have a secondary fire to pre-burn your wood to avoid the thick bitter smoke you get with a fresh log. Thin blue smoke,not billowing white smoke is what you need.

 

[hoosier88]

Here - Thanks for the info on drying/smoking. Good to know. Yah, I recommend the book, the author is sympathetic to McCandless - he'd done similar things in mountain climbing.

McCandless would have done better if he'd prepared better, no doubt about it. A good topo map would have given him detailed info he could have used to escape the flooding @ the end. But then, apparently he wanted the whole Man v. Nature or maybe better, Man in Nature thing.

He was impatient, & it looks like he took one shortcut too many in deciding what to eat. (Never a good idea to make those decisions under pressure of hunger - too much hunger, & you're @ the mercy of your appetite. Kinda like walking through the impulse buy items @ the grocery checkout.)

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Here - Thanks for the info on drying/smoking. Good to know. Yah, I recommend the book, the author is sympathetic to McCandless - he'd done similar things in mountain climbing.

McCandless would have done better if he'd prepared better, no doubt about it. A good topo map would have given him detailed info he could have used to escape the flooding @ the end. But then, apparently he wanted the whole Man v. Nature or maybe better, Man in Nature thing.

He was impatient, & it looks like he took one shortcut too many in deciding what to eat. (Never a good idea to make those decisions under pressure of hunger - too much hunger, & you're @ the mercy of your appetite. Kinda like walking through the impulse buy items @ the grocery checkout.)

I'll definitely read it. I've always had a fascination with living in the wild and the process used to procure and preserve meat as well as other aspects of wilderness living.
It takes a lot of balls to do what he did. I've done it on a limited basis,but nothing like he did. Having two people to spread the work load would make it a hell of a lot easier.

 

[koshergrl]

He was trying to make jerky. You need a certain amount of heat to kill bacteria so air drying isn't a good idea. And the smoke not only cures the meat it also keeps the flies away. But even jerky has a limited shelf life without refrigeration.

It does sound like he had some skills,just not the ones needed for Alaska. Live and Lear......never mind.

(My bold) I don't know, the book's author didn't say if jerky was the goal for McCandless. Certainly cutting it into chunks - instead of strips - wasn't the way to go. He was trying to smoke the meat, but McCandless noted that it wasn't working - he couldn't generate enough heat/smoke? Air-drying strips is what the author reports would have worked - that also works in Navajo country. Certainly a whole moose would have solved McCandless' food problem, & helped with the slow poisoning problem.

By the account in the book, he was brilliant. He wrote software - his dad was a big name in SAR radar, McCandless played 3 instruments well, sang well, was a good student (when the subject interested him), was a prize-winning long-distance runner. He overestimated his survival skills, especially for the AK environment. But he was young ...

Just smoking the meat wont do it.Thats just BBQ. And you're right about cutting into strips not chunks.
You dont want it any thicker then A quarter inch or it wont dry properly.
And yes you can air dry meat. It's just a lot easier to use smoke and some mild heat to help with sanitation and to speed the process. And of course it's pretty tasty that way to,assuming you dont use the wrong type of wood.
I've seen people place sliced meat between two return air filters then hang it in front of a fan to dry. The filters and the wind keep the bugs off and the fan speeds the process.

When I make jerky the actual drying process takes about twelve hours in a dehydrator.
If I make it in the smoker the old fashioned way I increase the heat slightly so the meat doesnt get to smokey and I make sure the logs have burned down to coals. Just like in BBQ it's a good idea to have a secondary fire to pre-burn your wood to avoid the thick bitter smoke you get with a fresh log. Thin blue smoke,not billowing white smoke is what you need.

This is how you smoke to preserve:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://arcticrose.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/hung-salmon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://arcticrose.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/040808-traditional-foods-and-recipes-smoking-salmon-and-other-fish/&usg=__37VQeZkySuYSNGflN6sxSfUp3_A=&h=253&w=450&sz=40&hl=en&start=17&zoom=1&tbnid=tz7PY3NON549jM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=127&ei=RAW2UfTNGaWkigLI9IGICQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsmoking%2Bsalmon%2Bimages%26um%3D1%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address%26rlz%3D1I7GGLT_enUS386%26hl%3Den%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CEwQrQMwEA

You will note the necessity of brining the fish first, then air drying...before you smoke.

This is why you need a gun that will stop a bear. Because trust me, bears will come to visit. And anything else that likes to eat meat or salmon.

When you are subsisting, you have to be able to take advantage of feasts when they are presented...you might go months before you catch another salmon, so if you can catch 300 in a month or 15 in a day, you have to be able to make use of them.

You don't have to build a shack, btw. You can just make a little lean to or whatever...big enough to accomodate a small, constant fire. You need the smoke, not the heat, with this method.

I don't know what's up with that link...I did a search on traditional smoking and I came across this site which is awsome, but it's showing as a google image. But the site is cool.

 

[koshergrl]

If you're going to play this game, you might as well do it right:

"

The most important animals, demanded special treatment by the Koyukon, are the four predators: the bear (black and cinnamon alike), wolf, wolverine, and lynx, and their yegas are to be dreaded. A. M. Clark (1970) reported that the Koyukuk Indians believed that these four animals had souls like those of human beings. Jette` mentioned important furbearers that are likewise treated with special care after death. In general, the proper names of these animals must not be used, but they may be referred to by circumlocutions. Their flesh and bones must not be given to dogs, and the bones or other discarded parts must be disposed of in special ways: burned in the cases of most land animals, or put back in the water for fish and beaver. Animal remains must never be left where people might walk over them, or dogs gnaw them, so the important parts of some species are cached in trees. When a bear is killed, its eyeballs are slit and its paws cut off, so that its spirit cannot see or run away. Then men eat the head and paws at a special feast, which the women do not attend."

05.05.08?Athabascan Animal Spirits and Hunting Practices « Raven's Ruff Stuff And Other Things Native