Zone1 You and everyone you've ever known will live FOREVER in paradise with God!

[The Irish Ram]

You'll be going, albeit kicking and screaming, perhaps. It's for your own good. Let me provide an analogy. Isn't it humane to rescue an injured animal that is suffering and wants NOTHING to do with its rescuers? Nonethless, the rescuers rescue and heal the animal. That's how God works with people who need to be rescued.

Matthew 13:41-42 esv
41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Nope. And your choice of scripture proves it. Sin does not enter Heaven. Lawbreakers don't go kicking and screaming to heaven. You are confused. Heaven is not a fiery furnace. And no one is forced to go there. No one forces you to accept Christ, and accepting Christ's work on the cross is the ONLY way to get there. He made a point of telling us that. We have free choice.

 

[Donald H]

Botany Bay is the saddest of all sad songs. It illustrates the fact that some chose the gallows over transportation to Australia.

I'm just asking for someone to connect the dots so to understand why a heaven had to be imagined. People prayed for death to relieve the human suffering.

And all of the other animals faced suffering.

 

[K9Buck]

How about we just do the best we can here and now?

Of course, but I want to share the wonderful message of God so that our brothers and sisters can rejoice with the knowledge that they and everyone they've ever known will live FOREVER with God. Isn't this "doing my best here and now"?

 

[K9Buck]

Lawbreakers don't go kicking and screaming to heaven.

Of course not. They go "kicking and screaming" into the "fiery furnace" that is used to eliminate the affliction of sin from them. Those of who in Christ are spared that experience because we are already in his flock.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Of course. Jesus will draw ALL mankind to himself and then he will deliver us to God.

John 12:32 esv
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

1 Corinthians 15:23-24 esv
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.

Then explain the second death...

 

[K9Buck]

I'm just asking for someone to connect the dots so to understand why a heaven had to be imagined.

Heaven is real. Those of us in Christ will go there after we die. Then our bodies will be resurrected and we will live with God in the new Earth.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Of course, but I want to share the wonderful message of God so that our brothers and sisters can rejoice with the knowledge that they and everyone they've ever known will live FOREVER with God. Isn't this "doing my best here and now"?

Not if you are deceiving them into believing they can live like hell and follow their father, Satan and still get a pass to enter Heaven covered in sin. Sin does not enter Heaven. Christ took our sins to the cross and gave us His sin free record to enter Heaven with. That was the exchange that took place.
Satan and all who follow him go to the Lake of Fire and Jesus hands God a sin free earth to descend to. Heaven comes here.

 

[K9Buck]

Then explain the second death...

Revelation is tricky. I'm not sure how to answer your question at this time. However, it is not a "forever" death or a forever punishment because, if it is, then John 12:32 is wrong and then so is the rest of the Bible.

John 12:32 esv
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

 

[K9Buck]

Not if you are deceiving them into believing they can live like hell and follow their father, Satan and still get a pass to enter Heaven covered in sin.

The Bible doesn't say they will go to Heaven and neither do I. The Bible says they will face damnation. Those in Christ go to Heaven while they are in Hell, receiving correction and restoration. Then we will all be resurrected and will live with God in the new Earth.

 

[K9Buck]

Christ took our sins to the cross and gave us His sin free record to enter Heaven with.

Correct. Jesus made atonement for the sins of the world through his sacrifice. Now, if Jesus did NOT make atonement for the sins of the world, then John 1:29 is wrong.

John 1:29 esv
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[The Irish Ram]

Of course not. They go "kicking and screaming" into the "fiery furnace" that is used to eliminate the affliction of sin from them. Those of who in Christ are spared that experience because we are already in his flock.

Show me the passages that say that the Lake of Fire is temporary... Show me the passages that exclaim that all humans go to Heaven, eventually?
Why then did Jesus empty Abraham's Bosom and leave the others in hell? Why is the rich man still there?

 

[K9Buck]

Satan and all who follow him go to the Lake of Fire and Jesus hands God a sin free earth to descend to. Heaven comes here.

Actually, this world will cease to exist and a new world, free from the stain of sin will take its place.

Revelation 21:1-3 esv
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them as their God.[c]

 

[K9Buck]

Show me the passages that exclaim that all humans go to Heaven, eventually?

Again, the Bible doesn't say that "ALL" go to Heaven. The Bible says that ALL will be resurrected and then given to God and that they will live with God in his kingdom in the new Earth.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Correct. Jesus made atonement for the sins of the world through his sacrifice. Now, if Jesus did NOT make atonement for the sins of the world, then John 1:29 is wrong.

John 1:29 esv
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus paid for every sin ever committed on this earth. Those who accept His gift of propitiation, go to Heaven. Those who do not accept His gift do not.
And you have Hell confused with the Lake of Fire. 2 different places and events. Those in hell now are there awaiting the White Throne Judgement.

 

[Mr Natural]

That’s good to know.

 

[K9Buck]

Show me the passages that say that the Lake of Fire is temporary... Show me the passages that exclaim that all humans go to Heaven, eventually?

Along those lines, the Bible tells us that God used Christ to "reconcile" the WORLD to himself. It doesn't say "some" or "those who believe"; it says "the world".

2 Corinthians 5:19 esv
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[K9Buck]

Jesus paid for every sin ever committed on this earth. Those who accept His gift of propitiation, go to Heaven. Those who do not accept His gift do not.

I've provided you with a plethora of verses that say that ALL will live with God. You are obviously free to reject those verses and to believe otherwise.

 

[K9Buck]

Those in hell now are there awaiting the White Throne Judgement.

They will be resurrected prior to the Great White Throne Judgment.

John 5:25-29 esv​

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


Remember, the "dead" are those who were NOT in Christ and who were in the Lake of Fire, aka "Hell". They were there to be corrected and restored. As this verse says, they will be resurrected and judged. Thereafter, I believe, they will be forgiven.

I believe the Great White Throne judgment will be a celebration. ALL will witness Jesus destroy death by throwing it into the "Lake of Fire" and no more souls will go there because all will be pure, or so I believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Actually, this world will cease to exist and a new world, free from the stain of sin will take its place.

Revelation 21:1-3 esv
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,[b] and God himself will be with them as their God.[c]

That takes place after the White Throne Judgement, which is after the thousand year reign of Christ. So, How long do you think sinners have to stay in the Lake of Fire before they are cleansed of their sins? Does Satan get a pass then too? How about the fallen angels? How long until they are cleansed and get out of the Lake of fire. If Christ already paid for their sins why bother with a Lake of Fire? If He cleanses you then there shouldn't be any sin on you whether they believe it or not. Gone is gone.
What you are preaching is dangerous. Live like hell and still go to Heaven isn't sanctioned by God or the Bible. It tells a different story. An eternal second death. Your scenario reworks that...

 

[K9Buck]

That takes place after the White Throne Judgement, which is after the thousand year reign of Christ. So, How long do you think sinners have to stay in the Lake of Fire before they are cleansed of their sins? Does Satan get a pass then too? How about the fallen angels? How long until they are cleansed and get out of the Lake of fire. If Christ already paid for their sins why bother with a Lake of Fire? If He cleanses you then there shouldn't be any sin on you whether they believe it or not. Gone is gone.
What you are preaching is dangerous. Live like hell and still go to Heaven isn't sanctioned by God or the Bible. It tells a different story. An eternal second death. Your scenario reworks that...

So you deny the scriptures. So be it.