Yet another reason to go electric in vehicles

[Likkmee]

Electric should only be implemented in seats....OK...OK.. Couches too

 

[Leo123]

Some of that were my calculations given the available data. I'm at work, don't have a lot of time between rounds and emergencies. Don't have a link but if you put in Shale Daily U.S. Oil " Curtailment Wave " forecast to top 2 million B/d in June by Carolyn Davis May13,2020 you should be able to bring it up. Lots of good graphs and info.

I read about it so, what’s your point? Seems it’s temporary. There was no curtailment before now anyway.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

If we continue on fossil fuels we will regress. The future is about moving on and not being stuck using 18th and 19th century energy sources.

The "Balance of Nature" Has Never Been in Man's Favor

Primitive nature-worshipers are the fossils we need to discontinue.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And what will be the power source all those EV's are going to use to charge up their batteries?

Helpful Message to Broke-Down GreenHeads: Go Fly a Kite

Lightning has a lot of electricity in it. When these eco-buggies run out of juice, all a driver has to do is wait for a storm.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Since oil is going to be too expensive for much of anything. It will have to be alternate energy sources. I understand it represents it a challenge, but what is this life is not full of challenges. When one door closes another one opens and vice versa. Here's a little reprise for you. Also on the news the nuclear talks at resumed with Iran. One of the assurances Iran wants is that they are once again able to sell their oil on the open market. This represents a huge opportunity to the United States. If they bought all that oil if they locked into it, it would help stop prices from rising so high and still make oil a little competitive but in the long run oil has to be done I think there's only like 40 more years of it left on the planet and that's exploiting all resources.

"Conservation" Is Nothing But Hoarding

Back in the 1880s, Rockefeller was advised to get out of the petroleum business because the scientific consensus at the time said that oil would soon be all drained out of the ground.

At first, the "Peak Oil" myth only indicated the retarded development of petroleum science at that time. It was abandoned when gusher after gusher disproved it. But in our time, the Doom and Gloom scare story was revived so that the oil companies could gouge us on prices based on artificial scarcity.

Eco-nuts, upper-class parasites, are driven by their class-supremacist instincts to help those they pretend to be ashamed of. The followers of these compromised richkids are mindless Natureboys who never question the background and confused motives of their gurus.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Methane and natural gas have similar properties but can be created or sourced in different ways. There are even techniques for converting gasoline, waste wood, sewage and garbage dumps to produce hydrogen - different sources of methane or methane-like gasses.

Apollo 13 was decades past and technology continues to progress. New catalysts that produce hydrogen more efficiently and are more resistant to structural change are already here. Here is one example:

"An active phase of a catalyst based on amorphous iridium hydroxide exhibited efficiency 150 times that of its original perovskite structure and close to three orders of magnitude better than the common commercial catalyst, iridium oxide."

""We found at least two groups of materials that undergo irreversible changes that turned out to be significantly better catalysts for hydrogen production," Feng said. "This can help us produce hydrogen at $2 per kilogram and eventually $1 per kilogram. That's less expensive than the polluting process in current industries and will help achieve the United States' goal of zero emissions by 2030.""

"Feng notes that the U.S. Department of Energy Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Office has established benchmarks of technologies that can produce clean hydrogen at $2 per kilogram by 2025 and $1 per kilogram by 2030 as part of the Hydrogen Energy Earthshot target of cutting the cost of clean hydrogen by 80%, from $5 to $1 per kilogram, in one decade."

Researchers develop advanced catalysts for clean hydrogen production

New research into the design of catalysts has shown that hydrogen can be cleanly produced with much greater efficiency and at a lower cost than is possible with current commercially available catalysts.

www.sciencedaily.com

Hydrogen technology and investments are moving forward given the many advantages. Hydrogen can power land, sea and air vehicles, and also back-up electrical grids, provide long-term energy storage for wind and solar (something batteries can't do) and down the road may even help to bake cookies and heat homes.

Hydrogen Optimized Achieves Breakthrough by Proving Its Water Electrolysis Technology Can Stabilize Renewable Power Feeds to Electrical Grids

Company's RuggedCellTM electrolyser ramps from 0 to 50,000 amperes in under 10 seconds, showing it can support the energy transition to renewables in the drive to net-zero emissionsTORONTO, ON / ACCESSWIRE / December 8, 2021 / Hydrogen Optimized, a subsidiary of Key DH Technologies Inc., today...

energycentral.com

Sustainable Canada-U.S. Flights Based on Hydrogen Technology Coming in the Next Years

De Havilland Canada has agreed to purchase 50 hydrogen-electric motors from ZeroAvia, which will be used to power its aircraft in the coming years

www.autoevolution.com

Do me a favor, when I can buy a hydrogen powered SUV like mine for $30K and there are refueling stations all along my route to my kid's houses, wake me up!

I predict that will never occur because of the laws of physics. If they overcome those issues, it won't happen until I am dead, in the ground, and creating my own methane as I decay.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yeah.......lets pretend that someone urinated in your cornflakes......its entertaining.


So.........you pay about 2.75 a gallon RIGHT NOW. Its clear you don't live anywhere near a huge LIBERAL CITY or STATE. When Biden was PLACED INTO POWER (he never won anything except the presidency of the hair club for men).......Gas was a buck eighty five on average nationally. Reality: These left wing nuts and their shadow puppet masters use the energy system to Launder their evil gains and wealth and declare.........look its all legal and above board. We the People are stupid and they are so smartttttttttttttttt. Books deals are another source of how they lander their wealth.

Example: BHO was living on the wages of a civil servant before being placed into 1600 Pa. Av., his net worth a few hundred thousand. Today his net worth is what? 135 million? Question..........where did the money come from? 2 book deals that hardly sold a million copies.......... A civil servant gaining 135 million dollars in 8 years? How?

Personally I would settle for a fixed energy price averaging 4 bucks a gallon. In California "RIGHT NOW".....they are predicting by the end of 22 gas will be 6 dollars a gallon with the average price today in the cities of California averaging about 4.60 a gallon. Prompt "GAS BUDDY", that tracks gas pricing around the nation. Not to mention all the GREEN taxes added by the liberals of California to fight smog, and save the matting habitat of some pest.........

Just add the cost of Uncle Sam attempting to manage a nationwide system of charging stations. What would the cost of energy come to in the near future with an all electric system? Charge at home? You think your average home energy cost will remain static or will UNCLE SAM declare a tax on that and make you use some metering device to calculate the amount used to charge your car?

The thing about using Hydrogen Fuel cells is the Mobility it offers and its still GREEN as defined by even liberals. A hydrogen based system still uses an engine (much like the gas engine) with hardly any carbon footprint.........that engine simply provides the energy to drive an all electric car/truck.......with either 2 wheel motors or 4 wheel motors at each wheel.

Its a no brainer. You act as if you are errantly heavenly invested in some stock scam and fear losing your keyster to reality of such a flawed endeavor.

Maybe you should learn to spell and use proper grammar first!

The correct word is not "its", but "it's" which is a contraction for 'it is".

I assume you meant "keister" instead of "keyster", which is not even a word.

How's that GED working out for you now?

 

[Batcat]

It's not going to be cheaper, it's running out. There's only about 40 more years at best left in the total world supply.

I have heard the world was running out of oil for half a century.

7 Enviro Predictions From Earth Day 1970 That Were Just Dead Wrong

Environmentalists truly believed and predicted that the planet was doomed during the first Earth Day in 1970, unless drastic actions were taken to save it.

dailycaller.com

***snip***

7: “By The Year 2000 … There Won’t Be Any More Crude Oil”

On Earth Day in 1970 ecologist Kenneth Watt famously predicted that the world would run out of oil saying, “You’ll drive up to the pump and say, ‘Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, ‘I am very sorry, there isn’t any.’”

[dcquiz] Numerous academics like Watt predicted that American oil production peaked in 1970 and would gradually decline, likely causing a global economic meltdown. However, the successful application of massive hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, caused American oil production to come roaring back and there is currently too much oil on the market.

American oil and natural gas reserves are at their highest levels since 1972 and American oil production in 2014 was 80 percent higher than in 2008 thanks to fracking.

Furthermore, the U.S. now controls the world’s largest untapped oil reserve, the Green River Formation in Colorado. This formation alone contains up to 3 trillion barrels of untapped oil shale, half of which may be recoverable. That’s five and a half times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. This single geologic formation could contain more oil than the rest of the world’s proven reserves combined.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Today’s democrats are so stupid and lazy. They could use their handheld unlimited information devices and watch old commercials from the 1970’s and see how panicked ‘experts’ were back then about running out of oil.

 

[Leo123]

I have heard the world was running out of oil for half a century.

7 Enviro Predictions From Earth Day 1970 That Were Just Dead Wrong

Environmentalists truly believed and predicted that the planet was doomed during the first Earth Day in 1970, unless drastic actions were taken to save it.

dailycaller.com

***snip***

7: “By The Year 2000 … There Won’t Be Any More Crude Oil”

On Earth Day in 1970 ecologist Kenneth Watt famously predicted that the world would run out of oil saying, “You’ll drive up to the pump and say, ‘Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say, ‘I am very sorry, there isn’t any.’”

[dcquiz] Numerous academics like Watt predicted that American oil production peaked in 1970 and would gradually decline, likely causing a global economic meltdown. However, the successful application of massive hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, caused American oil production to come roaring back and there is currently too much oil on the market.

American oil and natural gas reserves are at their highest levels since 1972 and American oil production in 2014 was 80 percent higher than in 2008 thanks to fracking.

Furthermore, the U.S. now controls the world’s largest untapped oil reserve, the Green River Formation in Colorado. This formation alone contains up to 3 trillion barrels of untapped oil shale, half of which may be recoverable. That’s five and a half times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. This single geologic formation could contain more oil than the rest of the world’s proven reserves combined.

There is a theory that the Earth makes petroleum without biomass.

Theory of Abiogenic Petroleum - Origins Of Oil​

But what does astronomy have to do with hydrocarbons? The answer involves the a-biogenic theory of hydrocarbon formation. Unlike the "fossil fuels" fantasy which supposedly began in prehistoric times, the a-biogenic theory goes back to the planetary formation of Earth, over 4.5 billion years ago; long before life or fossils existed!

Theory of Abiogenic Petroleum - Hydrocarbon Formation - Turbo & High-Tech Performance

Ever wonder if we're ever going to run out of fossil fuels even though its been mentioned over and over again? Well check out the Theory of Abiogenic petroleum, an alternative to the biogenic theory. Check it out here at Turbo & High-Tech Performance.

www.motortrend.com

Remember this when these blabbering idiots scream that the Earth is running out of oil. The Earth could be MAKING oil, hydrocarbons, etc.

 

[Decus]

Do me a favor, when I can buy a hydrogen powered SUV like mine for $30K and there are refueling stations all along my route to my kid's houses, wake me up!

I predict that will never occur because of the laws of physics. If they overcome those issues, it won't happen until I am dead, in the ground, and creating my own methane as I decay.

Unless you want to buy a stripped-down electric mini most new electric cars and pick up trucks are typically priced at $70,000 dollars and above. The electric Ford 150 offers a lower base price but options can bring its price up significantly.

My argument wasn't to push for a "green" car but rather if I had to choose I'd choose a hydrogen model over battery. I presently drive a diesel van and am perfectly happy with it.

As far as waking you up - I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. Sleep well.

.

 

[Decus]

'This is the early stage but without a doubt my dick is poised for growth" said every boy at the age of 11 or so. All you have are predictions. Let's see the nuts-and-bolts application. You have none!

I cannot go down to my local Ford dealer and buy a fuel cell vehicle, and even if I did, where would the fuel come from? Solve that problem and we can discuss it further. Until then, as I said, all you have are predictions.

Gasoline in a liquid form does not explode. Hydrogen does, not matter what state of matter you find it in!

Don't fret, yours might still grow.

Nuts and bolts applications???? I given you ample reading material in the links I've provided but you don't want to read any of it.

Here is just one example of you inabil.....unwillingness(?) to read. You again mention the risk associated with hydrogen when you write: "Gasoline in a liquid form does not explode. Hydrogen does, not matter what state of matter you find it in!".

I provided you with two (2) links addressing the question of safety issue which you chose not to read. Here is one quote:

"But if somehow they did start to leak (lets say after a massive car accident, where something pierced the storage tank with lots of force – since they wouldn’t leak easily), this wouldn’t actually be a massive risk, like it might with gasoline. This is because hydrogen is a light gas, which will simply dissipate instantly into the atmosphere, unlike gasoline which would start to pool (and then a stray flame would naturally be a big risk)."

.

 

[Mac-7]

I'll agree the language doesn't add much to his case, but otherwise I've got to agree about windmills and 100% renewables being a step backwards. ThisIsMe gave a great back-of-the-envelope type calculation on page 8 of this thread. Even if the numbers he shows are off by close to an order of magnitude, it demonstrates the futility of going all electric. His analysis doesn't even touch on the infrastructure that would be required to carry and distribute such an increase. It would be an environmental disaster.

Is there a place for Renewables and EV's? You betcha there is. But the only practical, environmentally sustainable, way forward in order to keep our independent transportation, is to use gasoline-like fuel. Hydrogen fuel cells is one route. Synthesized gasoline/ethanol type products are also available today, and I suspect more efficient and better fuels will be developed long before we run out of crude oil.

And I don't believe China is "ahead" of us at all: their mandated push toward EV's will surely backfire if they try to go even close to 100%...another case of socialism forcing bad ideas into being even though it doesn't really work...but that's another discussion.

The only practical way to weave EVs onto the roads is through the free market without government intervention

Let consumers not government workers decide what works best for them instead of issuing mandates

or arbritary mandates that only electric cars can meet

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Don't fret, yours might still grow.

Nuts and bolts applications???? I given you ample reading material in the links I've provided but you don't want to read any of it.

Here is just one example of you inabil.....unwillingness(?) to read. You again mention the risk associated with hydrogen when you write: "Gasoline in a liquid form does not explode. Hydrogen does, not matter what state of matter you find it in!".

I provided you with two (2) links addressing the question of safety issue which you chose not to read. Here is one quote:

"But if somehow they did start to leak (lets say after a massive car accident, where something pierced the storage tank with lots of force – since they wouldn’t leak easily), this wouldn’t actually be a massive risk, like it might with gasoline. This is because hydrogen is a light gas, which will simply dissipate instantly into the atmosphere, unlike gasoline which would start to pool (and then a stray flame would naturally be a big risk)."

.

One problem i know of with Hydrogen fuel, is that in liquid form, it is well below freezing. If the tank is ruptured then that liquid not necessarily catches fire, but can turn flesh into glass, and then shatter.

Storing Hydrogen | Air Liquide Energies

Hydrogen is an ultra-light gas that occupies a substantial volume under standard conditions of pressure, i.e., atmospheric pressure. In order to store and transport hydrogen efficiently, this volume must be significantly reduced.

energies.airliquide.com

Hydrogen turns into a liquid when it is cooled to a temperature below -252,87 °C. At -252.87°C and 1.013 bar, liquid hydrogen has a density of close to 71 kg/m 3.

 

[Old Rocks]

There is a theory that the Earth makes petroleum without biomass.

Theory of Abiogenic Petroleum - Origins Of Oil​

But what does astronomy have to do with hydrocarbons? The answer involves the a-biogenic theory of hydrocarbon formation. Unlike the "fossil fuels" fantasy which supposedly began in prehistoric times, the a-biogenic theory goes back to the planetary formation of Earth, over 4.5 billion years ago; long before life or fossils existed!

Theory of Abiogenic Petroleum - Hydrocarbon Formation - Turbo & High-Tech Performance

Ever wonder if we're ever going to run out of fossil fuels even though its been mentioned over and over again? Well check out the Theory of Abiogenic petroleum, an alternative to the biogenic theory. Check it out here at Turbo & High-Tech Performance.

www.motortrend.com

Remember this when these blabbering idiots scream that the Earth is running out of oil. The Earth could be MAKING oil, hydrocarbons, etc.

The Gold Hypothesis. Disproven.

Abstract​

Abstract. The two theories of abiogenic formation of hydrocarbons, the Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins and Thomas Gold's deep gas theory, have been considered in some detail. Whilst the Russian-Ukrainian theory was portrayed as being scientifically rigorous in contrast to the biogenic theory which was thought to be littered with invalid assumptions, this applies only to the formation of the higher hydrocarbons from methane in the upper mantle. In most other aspects, in particular the influence of the oxidation state of the mantle on the abundance of methane, this rigour is lacking especially when judged against modern criteria as opposed to the level of understanding in the 1950s to 1980s when this theory was at its peak. Thomas Gold's theory involves degassing of methane from the mantle and the formation of higher hydrocarbons from methane in the upper layers of the Earth's crust. However, formation of higher hydrocarbons in the upper layers of the Earth's crust occurs only as a result of Fischer-Tropsch-type reactions in the presence of hydrogen gas but is otherwise not possible on thermodynamic grounds. This theory is therefore invalid. Both theories have been overtaken by the increasingly sophisticated understanding of the modes of formation of hydrocarbon deposits in nature.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

 

[Old Rocks]

The only practical way to weave EVs onto the roads is through the free market without government intervention

Let consumers not government workers decide what works best for them instead of issuing mandates

or arbritary mandates that only electric cars can meet

Tesla's, at present, no longer qualify for a subsidy because of the number already sold. However, their production is already sold out well into 2022. Looks like consumers have already decided.

 

[Mac-7]

Tesla's, at present, no longer qualify for a subsidy because of the number already sold. However, their production is already sold out well into 2022. Looks like consumers have already decided.

I dont have a problem with that

most ev’s today are short trip affairs, and if that meets consumer needs great

but government mandating ev’s such as whats coming in california and europe is not ok

 

[Old Rocks]

Unless you want to buy a stripped-down electric mini most new electric cars and pick up trucks are typically priced at $70,000 dollars and above. The electric Ford 150 offers a lower base price but options can bring its price up significantly.

My argument wasn't to push for a "green" car but rather if I had to choose I'd choose a hydrogen model over battery. I presently drive a diesel van and am perfectly happy with it.

As far as waking you up - I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. Sleep well.

.

Production of hydrogen involves a lack of efficiency that is not present in the battery EV's. Also, hard to make hydrogen at home, easy to produce electricity with solar. And soon EV's will cost significantly less than ICE cars. Battery costs are undergoing the same kind of price decrease we saw in solar panels.

 

[Old Rocks]

I dont have a problem with that

most ev’s today are short trip affairs, and if that meets consumer needs great

but government mandating ev’s such as whats coming in california and europe is not ok

Actually, the mandates will probably be for cities, where the pollutants are concentrated in a small area. However, by 2025, the EV's will cost less, and have greater range than most ICE's. Already there are EV's on the market that have 300 to 400 miles range.

 

[Decus]

Production of hydrogen involves a lack of efficiency that is not present in the battery EV's. Also, hard to make hydrogen at home, easy to produce electricity with solar. And soon EV's will cost significantly less than ICE cars. Battery costs are undergoing the same kind of price decrease we saw in solar panels.

If you've read the links I've already posted I'm happy to talk but I'm not interested in debating your opinion. Add something of substance or we can simply agree that you have an opinion.

.