Would you Follow Him and take his mark?

[The Original Tree]

You don't understand the rapture at all and the tribulation was over when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. You should study scripture instead of Hal Lindsey.

The church is the bride of Christ .

You don't understand that preaching lies and preaching a false gospel can send you to Hell.

 

[The Original Tree]

Nope.. The oldest copy of Daniel is from the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran about 150 BC.

You don't know what the Messiah being cut off means.

It means crucified and rejected by The Jews which is discussed all through The Old Testament. And the Tribulation as well as The Messiah, His Crucifixion and His 2nd coming to establish His Kingdom is discussed in numerous books of The Bible in both The Old and New Testament not just Daniel, and Revelation. Or are you going to call Ezekiel, Isaiah, and all of the Prophets Liars too?

 

[surada]

You don't understand that preaching lies and preaching a false gospel can send you to Hell.

Then stop doing it.

 

[The Original Tree]

Then stop doing it.

You are an Agent of Satan-Allah and everyone who loves God and loves The Gospel knows it. I will say it one more time, God loves you even though you spread lies about Him and His Son, The Jews and The Coming Messianic Kingdom, so repent, seek Truth, seek Christ and turn from your wicked ways before you perish in an Eternal Hell that is meant for Satan and His Demons.

The Tribulation and God's Wrath is meant for people like you, but you do not have to experience it if you turn from your Evil ways.

 

[surada]

You are an Agent of Satan-Allah and everyone who loves God and loves The Gospel knows it. I will say it one more time, God loves you even though you spread lies about Him and His Son, The Jews and The Coming Messianic Kingdom, so repent, seek Truth, seek Christ and turn from your wicked ways before you perish in an Eternal Hell that is meant for Satan and His Demons.

The Tribulation and God's Wrath is meant for people like you, but you do not have to experience it if you turn from your Evil ways.

Don't be ridiculous. Daniel was a Jew .. The Messiah he expected was an anointed warrior king like David who would defeat the enemies of the Jews. Jesus did none of that... Christians believe Jesus is the redeemer.

The tribulation was local in Jerusalem. Jesus told his followers to flee to the mountains and they did. They fled to Pella. By all accounts it was a perfectly horrible time of war, famine, death and disease.

 

[The Original Tree]

Don't be ridiculous. Daniel was a Jew .. The Messiah he expected was an anointed warrior king like David who would defeat the enemies of the Jews. Jesus did none of that... Christians believe Jesus is the redeemer.

The tribulation was local in Jerusalem. Jesus told his followers to flee to the mountains and they did. They fled to Pella. By all accounts it was a perfectly horrible time of war, famine, death and disease.

Repent Makr, you 7 fold child of Hell!

Jesus was prophesied to come first as The Redeemer, and is coming again as The King.

 

[surada]

The Mark as described in Revelation 13 is received deliberately, willingly and knowingly as a final rejection of Christ.

It wasn't voluntary to use Roman coin in the first century. They used the same coin all over the Roman Empire.

There are futurists who are teaching that America is the Beast and Gog and Magog are Russia. In a few years they will switch it around so that Gog and Magog is Iran and the Beast is the European Union.

Just stick with scripture.

 

[buttercup]

It wasn't voluntary to use Roman coin in the first century. They used the same coin all over the Roman Empire.

There are futurists who are teaching that America is the Beast and Gog and Magog are Russia. In a few years they will switch it around so that Gog and Magog is Iran and the Beast is the European Union.

Just stick with scripture.

Take your own advice. Better yet, just stop. You're actually worse than atheists. At least atheists* are upfront and sincere about their lack of belief, instead of pretending to be something else in order to mislead people.

*most, I should say

 

[buttercup]

Nope.. The oldest copy of Daniel is from the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran about 150 BC.

You don't know what the Messiah being cut off means.

As far as I saw, the guy you replied to didn't claim a date it was written. He simply said it is "so accurate that Historians had thought it was written after the fact"

Any more strawmen that you'd like to knock down?

Stop being deceptive, and start a new thread if you want to promote your woefully foolish preterism, instead of always turning every thread into your one-trick pony topic.

 

[surada]

As far as I saw, the guy you replied to didn't say claim a date it was written. He simply said it is "so accurate that Historians had thought it was written after the fact"

Any more strawmen that you'd like to knock down?

Stop being deceptive, and start a new thread if you want to promote your woefully foolish preterism, instead of always turning every thread into your one-trick pony topic.

So? He's wrong.. It was accurate because "Daniel" was written about 165-168 BC during the reign of Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt. Daniel was a Jew.. and Jesus didn't fit the Messiah the Jews expected.

 

[JohnDB]

Then stop doing it.

Woah.... you have no room to speak... you don't believe scripture... you are not a Christian. Why are you even in this thread? This is a Christian doctrine...not a Mormon or JW or something else thread and doctrine.

 

[JohnDB]

So? He's wrong.. It was accurate because "Daniel" was written about 165-168 BC during the reign of Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt. Daniel was a Jew.. and Jesus didn't fit the Messiah the Jews expected.

That would be YOUR sole unique opinion.... nobody else believes that except for you.

Talmud (both Jerusalem and Babylonian) Mishna, midrash, Sifre, and targumim all disagree with you.

Maybe you should pay attention and learn something...not discount everyone and everything throughout history except for your exclusive opinion.

 

[buttercup]

So? He's wrong.. It was accurate because "Daniel" was written about 165-168 BC during the reign of Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt. Daniel was a Jew.. and Jesus didn't fit the Messiah the Jews expected.

That's not the traditional view. That's not the dating that was nearly unanimous for a very very long time, and is still held by most bible-believing Christians. Your view is held by non-believers and very liberal Christians.

And I am flabbergasted that you don't comprehend that it was those who didn't understand the scriptures who were looking for the wrong type of Messiah. I mean it's only logical that not knowing or misunderstanding the scriptures would lead to looking for the wrong type of Messiah. Obviously not all Jews fell into that category, because a portion of the early followers of Christ were Jewish believers. So I think it is amazing (and hilarious, in a sad way) that you are accusing Daniel of not understanding the Scriptures.

Furthermore, you're going against the very words of Jesus. Which means you're basically calling Jesus a liar.

I have never met a Christian who believes the things you believe. You spend most of your time here attacking the Bible and Christianity, and misleading people, while claiming to be a Christian. Very, very sad, but I guess it shouldn't be surprising. Jesus Himself said that there would be an increasing number of people like you in the last days.

 

[meera]

Salvation is a gift. You cannot earn it, you cannot work for it. That flies in the face of God's grace and mercy.

Salvation is meaningless crap that was invented to make mankind submissive and stupid and not looking to challenge him/herself and do better in life. And you,,,,, will be held accountable for your own screw ups. That's Mathematical! You can count on it. There are numerous verses which clearly elude to that in the bible, bu here's just one of them:

"The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head."
-Obadiah 1:15-

As far as your "hollier than thou" empty-can-type-of-preaching, Look up Isaiah 64:6 :

All of us are like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

...and Luke 18:14:

"I tell you that this man [tax collector], rather than the other[self righteous pharisee], went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

Those of us who believe in Christ are NOT better than any one.
READ your Bible. Apparently there is a lot there that you don't seem to be aware of.

 

[JohnDB]

That's not the traditional view. That's not the dating that was nearly unanimous for a very very long time, and is still held by most bible-believing christians. Your view is held by non-believers and very liberal Christians.

And I am flabbergasted that you don't comprehend that it was those who didn't understand the scriptures who were looking for the wrong type of Messiah. I mean it's only logical that not knowing or misunderstanding the scriptures would lead to looking for the wrong type of Messiah. Obviously not all Jews fell into that category, because a portion of the early followers of Christ were Jewish believers. So I think it is amazing (and hilarious, in a sad way) that you are accusing Daniel of not understanding the Scriptures.

Furthermore, you're going against the very words of Jesus. Which means you're basically calling Jesus a liar.

I have never met a Christian who believes the things you believe. You spend most of your time here attacking the Bible and Christianity, and misleading people, while claiming to be a Christian. Very, very sad, but I guess it shouldn't be surprising. Jesus Himself said that there would be an increasing number of people like you in the last days.

See,
People like him have no real respect for scripture...that's a big clue there. Since he doesn't have any he doesn't understand how we can have such a high opinion of scripture.

So he doesn't understand the huge hill he has to climb to prove his point...as if we should ignore the thousands of people who have testified the exact opposite of what he is proposing and just take his word for it.

Now I could understand his point if he had any substantive proof of any of his assertions about the book of Daniel...but he doesn't. He just wishes it was how he is claiming because it fits his unique doctrine.

But his claims are very subversive to the Christian faith and discredits the whole Old Testament and New Testament alike...as well as makes Jesus out to be a liar.

 

[surada]

That would be YOUR sole unique opinion.... nobody else believes that except for you.

Talmud (both Jerusalem and Babylonian) Mishna, midrash, Sifre, and targumim all disagree with you.

Maybe you should pay attention and learn something...not discount everyone and everything throughout history except for your exclusive opinion.

Nope.. Most scholars believe Daniel was written towards the end of the 2nd century BC. You should look around a little.

 

[surada]

See,
People like him have no real respect for scripture...that's a big clue there. Since he doesn't have any he doesn't understand how we can have such a high opinion of scripture.

So he doesn't understand the huge hill he has to climb to prove his point...as if we should ignore the thousands of people who have testified the exact opposite of what he is proposing and just take his word for it.

Now I could understand his point if he had any substantive proof of any of his assertions about the book of Daniel...but he doesn't. He just wishes it was how he is claiming because it fits his unique doctrine.

But his claims are very subversive to the Christian faith and discredits the whole Old Testament and New Testament alike...as well as makes Jesus out to be a liar.

I'm not a he and nobody is making Jesus out a liar. Jesus would have known about Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt.

 

[JohnDB]

But to the subject of this thread...

Personally,
I don't think that the "Mark of the Beast" is going to be a secretive mark in any fashion.

Just like getting on your knees and bowing to an idol is not an unwitting act.

You obviously will know beyond all shadow of a doubt that it is wrong... otherwise Jesus wouldn't say that it will condemn you to Hell.

So...as stubborn as I am...not a chance I will take it. Nor will many others. It's not got anything to do with medicine...it is focused on merchandise and money. That's what it says...I see no reason to doubt that.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm not a he and nobody is making Jesus out a liar. Jesus would have known about Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt.

Yes, you are making Jesus out to be a liar and as He personally instructed all his Apostles...they wrote the gospels. (Except for Luke...he tried to get to see Jesus personally but got turned away)

And as far as "most scholars" go... you are in the position of proving your assertions with something other than your personal word...(which is highly suspect since you are not a Christian)

And as far as your gender...for that I apologize... my only defense is that you hadn't made known your gender until this point.

 

[konradv]

The Mark as described in Revelation 13 is received deliberately, willingly and knowingly as a final rejection of Christ.

Revelation is a bit of endtimes fantasy that should never have been included in the Bible.