Women having to work
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St.Blues
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Think about this. FHA mortgages.. Designed for young married couples to afford a home.
The standard some years back were 20% down with one income.
Now its 3.5% down with two incomes. Something is very wrong with this picture.
The Fed and Corporations... Two Big evils.
The standard some years back were 20% down with one income.
Now its 3.5% down with two incomes. Something is very wrong with this picture.
The Fed and Corporations... Two Big evils.
Steelplate
Bluesman
Nope, just the most important ones.
Steelplate
Bluesman
Can I ask something? Why are we always looking to downgrade people's lives instead of trying to make them better? Is this what we want? A downward spiral of the average American?
That's what I see from the right. No one deserves a living wage... But Millionaires and Billionaires are to be revered. No one but the rich deserve anything... they should learn to just be ******* grateful to live in this Wonderful Country and shut up.
Well the only thing you're right on is that it is a wonderful country... one where THEIR say is just as worthy of fighting for as the Billionaire's.
That's what I see from the right. No one deserves a living wage... But Millionaires and Billionaires are to be revered. No one but the rich deserve anything... they should learn to just be ******* grateful to live in this Wonderful Country and shut up.
Well the only thing you're right on is that it is a wonderful country... one where THEIR say is just as worthy of fighting for as the Billionaire's.
St.Blues
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Double the work force just to start. Lower wages for men. More Competition.
The big complaint I hear. A 40 hour work week, clean the house, do the shopping, pay for child care, take care of the bills.. etc.. no life and the kids are neglected.
May have something to do with the Liberal indoctrinated low IQ's out there.
Soggy in NOLA
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Soggy in NOLA
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I dunno, When my kids were young I wasn't making a lot of money. We made the decision that the wife would be a stay-at-home Mom. We did what my parents did. We lived frugally, going out was a luxury and we drove cars till the wheels fell off. We took the kids to the beach once a year, Disney World maybe twice while they were young.
It wasn't bad at all.
Problem as I see it, people want new cars every couple years, houses they can't afford, dining out 4 nights a week, $200 cell phones, etc.
It wasn't bad at all.
Problem as I see it, people want new cars every couple years, houses they can't afford, dining out 4 nights a week, $200 cell phones, etc.
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Annie
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Families that want a parent at home can often still do so, though it comes with costs. However, the costs for most aren't much different than many of our parents chose when it was mom at home. I think perhaps that may be one positive that is realized by this depression we are going through.
Right now isn't a great time for anyone employed to be leaving their jobs, if they are lucky enough to have a secure one. However, there are families with two working parents that are able to see what others are going through and may want to change their priorities, as a hedge perhaps against future instability.
Someone above said, what changed, that two parents were needed to keep the family going? Nothing, other than the expectations of 'normal.' It's part of what got us into the housing and credit bubbles. It started even before I married in 1980 or had my first child in 1981. Both my husband and I were college grads, he had his MS, I had two BA's. Both of us were in management with AT&T.
His dad is a nuclear engineer, his mom a pharmacist, before becoming a stay at home mom. My mom was a stay-at-home, though she'd been in management at Illinois Bell in the 40's and did accounting when my brother and I were in high school. My dad was successful in industrial steel sales. We both came from 'middle-upper class backgrounds.' Neither of us had been out of the country. Neither of us had traveled extensively even in the US. Both of our families had 'summer homes.' In both of our cases, mom and kids went to the summer homes pretty often, dads on weekends. The homes were worth less than 1/4 of main house.
When I became pregnant, the plan was to work to the last month and return in 6 weeks. We were already used to 2 vacations a year and wanted enough money to give our child 'everything.' At the end of first trimester it looked like I was losing the baby. I was ordered to total bed rest for 3 weeks. I had the time coming and we thought that would take care of the issue. When the ultrasound in the second week of rest found 'no heartbeat', we were beside ourselves. The next day they repeated the ultrasound, before going for a D & C. They picked up a heartbeat that time. Going to work became out of the question, I took a leave.
It was at this point our thinking changed. We realized we could get by on what the husband was making and still live comfortably, though up to this point I'd made more. However, we couldn't go to Europe as we'd had planned, indeed for about 3 years we couldn't go anywhere but our families summer homes. Yeah, real deprivation. We still had two cars, a house, a dog, and ate well. We still bought clothes without worrying about the costs. We had some of the new tech stuff, though not nearly all that the geek hubby would have liked.
Two years later, when second child was born there really wasn't a question any longer. Child care was expensive and both of us wanted the kids to be in the best schools we could provide, beginning with preschool. The 2 year old had already started at 5 morning Montessori and at 3 would start full day. We could afford that and by that time also afford a bigger home.
Long story short, it's about choices. Would I leave the workforce for 15 years as I did? Probably not, it's caused me some opportunities after divorce. However, those that say they can't 'get by' on less than two salaries? I don't buy it.
Right now isn't a great time for anyone employed to be leaving their jobs, if they are lucky enough to have a secure one. However, there are families with two working parents that are able to see what others are going through and may want to change their priorities, as a hedge perhaps against future instability.
Someone above said, what changed, that two parents were needed to keep the family going? Nothing, other than the expectations of 'normal.' It's part of what got us into the housing and credit bubbles. It started even before I married in 1980 or had my first child in 1981. Both my husband and I were college grads, he had his MS, I had two BA's. Both of us were in management with AT&T.
His dad is a nuclear engineer, his mom a pharmacist, before becoming a stay at home mom. My mom was a stay-at-home, though she'd been in management at Illinois Bell in the 40's and did accounting when my brother and I were in high school. My dad was successful in industrial steel sales. We both came from 'middle-upper class backgrounds.' Neither of us had been out of the country. Neither of us had traveled extensively even in the US. Both of our families had 'summer homes.' In both of our cases, mom and kids went to the summer homes pretty often, dads on weekends. The homes were worth less than 1/4 of main house.
When I became pregnant, the plan was to work to the last month and return in 6 weeks. We were already used to 2 vacations a year and wanted enough money to give our child 'everything.' At the end of first trimester it looked like I was losing the baby. I was ordered to total bed rest for 3 weeks. I had the time coming and we thought that would take care of the issue. When the ultrasound in the second week of rest found 'no heartbeat', we were beside ourselves. The next day they repeated the ultrasound, before going for a D & C. They picked up a heartbeat that time. Going to work became out of the question, I took a leave.
It was at this point our thinking changed. We realized we could get by on what the husband was making and still live comfortably, though up to this point I'd made more. However, we couldn't go to Europe as we'd had planned, indeed for about 3 years we couldn't go anywhere but our families summer homes. Yeah, real deprivation. We still had two cars, a house, a dog, and ate well. We still bought clothes without worrying about the costs. We had some of the new tech stuff, though not nearly all that the geek hubby would have liked.
Two years later, when second child was born there really wasn't a question any longer. Child care was expensive and both of us wanted the kids to be in the best schools we could provide, beginning with preschool. The 2 year old had already started at 5 morning Montessori and at 3 would start full day. We could afford that and by that time also afford a bigger home.
Long story short, it's about choices. Would I leave the workforce for 15 years as I did? Probably not, it's caused me some opportunities after divorce. However, those that say they can't 'get by' on less than two salaries? I don't buy it.
Soggy in NOLA
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Downgrading from what? Lifestyles they can't afford?
Reality will take care of that. Sorry bub, we can't all be millionaires nor live like them.
Get over it. You come off as some petulant child overwrought with envy.
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- #55
We aren't trying to downgrade peoples lives. You are.
We are the ones advocating for less government and more freedom. It's freedom that improves peoples lives. Govenrment burdens them.
Take minimum wage. Do you know how many jobs have been lost because you artificially increase the labor costs? do you know how many companies could just no longer afford as many employees? Do you know how many companies had to ship jobs overseas because you make jobs here less affordable? Do you know how much more you've made the cost of living because you've artificially increased the labor costs?
The best way to increase the lives of everyone is to expand the maximum freedom to everyone. Give people the freedom to improve their lives and they will. Give them the freedom to keep what they work for and they will work harder and create more wealth. Give people freedom and you will see things you never dreamed.
The greatest period of innovation and economic growth happened when the government got out of the peoples lives, cut spending, and cut taxes in the 1920s. When people have freedom and chose virtue, they will always raise their standard of living beyond anything the government can force on people.
Hum Dinger
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In a generation the employee market more than doubled. The economy adjusted accordingly, and now it takes 2 two incomes to live at the same relative standard as a single income did a generation ago. The market got flooded with employees.
It's simple supply and demand at work. The more people there are in the work force the lower the value of each.
What's worse is that not only does it take 2 people with college degress to support themselves and 2-3 kids at a middle-class level, but in addition to college employees have a lifetime of continuing education and job retraining just to stay par in income.
Given the jobs skills and education, plus the huge increase in the number of workers, productivity and real wealth creation has risen exponentially.
What's even worse is that we're losing our pensions and the retirement age is going up - when it should be going down.
I'm all for women having equal opportunity and I think that pre-school is great for kids. But the American people really need to start standing up to their employers and demanding their true value. If we did, we'd all be wealthy and retiring at 40.
It's simple supply and demand at work. The more people there are in the work force the lower the value of each.
What's worse is that not only does it take 2 people with college degress to support themselves and 2-3 kids at a middle-class level, but in addition to college employees have a lifetime of continuing education and job retraining just to stay par in income.
Given the jobs skills and education, plus the huge increase in the number of workers, productivity and real wealth creation has risen exponentially.
What's even worse is that we're losing our pensions and the retirement age is going up - when it should be going down.
I'm all for women having equal opportunity and I think that pre-school is great for kids. But the American people really need to start standing up to their employers and demanding their true value. If we did, we'd all be wealthy and retiring at 40.
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Hum Dinger
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You really were born yesterday weren't you!
Government is the primary protector of our freedoms. Without whuch the vast majoority of the people would live in abject poverty and slavery.
Sure, if you got rid of the minimum wage, more people would have jobs - at 5 cents an hour. We'd be starving and having to live 20 people in a room. Goodbye sanitation and hello epidemic disease. That's exactly how it was back in the 1890s before the government started regulation (Thank you Teddy Roosevelt!).
Your knowledge of the standard of living, for the majority of the people in the 1920s is horrendous - not only poverty but heroin & opium addiction level were amoung the highest in history. The 1920s was a time of poverty for most of the people, and the freedoms that you speak of only led to the total economic collapse of 1929.
Give people the freedom that you talk about and they will just enslave each other.
Hum Dinger
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I got news for you:
If working people were paid on par with their productive value, we would all be millionaires by the time we were about 40.
Annie
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You are seriously claiming that 2 parents that aren't college educated or that 2 are, but don't continue education aren't able to maintain a middle class lifestyle? What planet are you from?
Iridescence
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*I* just do not agree at all with the ideology that the 'cost of living' has increased. Not that it hasn't gotten more expensive to do certain things and to pay certain things but our minimum wage has also gone up.
The issue that blares the brightest is the fact that individuals tend to not be able to entertain themselves without spending a fortune. Also, the price of food is excessively high if one's taste is the focus instead of their hunger.
Our tremendous concern for comfort has been our biggest enslavement. "We" cannot blame any party for such.
Ranting over dems/libs/reps/cons also may prove us to be more like petty children than responsible adults.
The issue that blares the brightest is the fact that individuals tend to not be able to entertain themselves without spending a fortune. Also, the price of food is excessively high if one's taste is the focus instead of their hunger.
Our tremendous concern for comfort has been our biggest enslavement. "We" cannot blame any party for such.
Ranting over dems/libs/reps/cons also may prove us to be more like petty children than responsible adults.
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