Winter Does Not Disprove Global Warming

[boedicca]

If Winter doesn't disprove Global Warming, than neither Summer nor Hurricanes prove it.

Just sayin'.

 

[RollingThunder]

I notice repeatedly how the AGW knuckleheads will go on and on about the planet getting warmer. What they won't explain because they can't explain, is how what man does is effecting it.

Mother nature isn't going to follow anyone's political agenda. The lefties are simply using this scam to gain more control. And then there are the truly ignorant people such as the OP, who actually believe that stuff.

I'm terribly sorry you missed that. I would have bet my eyeteeth that everyone had seen it. Here's how it goes.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, man, by the combustion of fossil fuels (primarily coal and petroleum of course) has put hundreds of billions of tons of carbon dioxide into the Earth's atmosphere: enough to raise the level from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million.

Carbon dioxide is one of the greenhouse gases. It absorbs some of the infrared spectra. So, sunlight shines on the Earth where it is absorbed by the ocean and the land and a little by the air. Anything above absolute zero (and that would be everything) radiates infrared light (also known as radiant heat). A planet whose atmosphere had no carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases would allow all of that reradiated infrared (that wasn't aimed back at the Earth) to escape to space. But planets like ours, whose atmospheres DO have some greenhouse gases (GHGs from hereon) trap a portion of that radiation. Thus they tend to accumulate solar energy which increases their temperatures which increases the amount of infrared radiation. This carries on till things balance out again. But if the level of GHGs increases, the atmosphere will have to warm up to find a new equilibrium point again. If GHGs just keep climbing, so will temperatures. If the Earth had no carbon dioxide, it's average temperature would be almost 33 centigrade degrees cooler than it is. The Earth would be a snowball. So we humans need SOME CO2.

So, the CO2 that humans have added to the Earth's atmosphere has caused it to accumulate solar energy and it is still warming up, trying to find an equilibrium point. Of course we're still pumping GHGs into the air faster and faster, so it's always playing catch up. And CO2 stays in the air for quite a long time, so that even if we could magically stop all further CO2 emissions right this instant, the Earth's temperature would continue to rise for many, many years.

Okay, got the big picture? Do let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be glad to help out wherever I can.

Right, the "the big picture, I have a question.

Do you believe every Molecule of CO2 released into the atmosphere stays there forever?

CO2, hard for people to grasp its significance, or insignificance.

Thus far all you got is theories, no fact.

Here is a fact, any particle from space, as in radiation that strikes a molecule of CO2, radiation from the sun, solar radiation loses enuergy after striking CO2.

Stuff is not bouncing around making things hot, its as simple as Billiards, or even a nuclear reaction, it gets weak, quickly. Hell, one can actually stand next to spent nuclear fuel and not get burnt to a crisp, its a simple principle, once a molecule or neutron or whatever strikes something, it loses its strength, even its heat.

CO2, a freind of life, which makes it an enemy of....................

Retarded drivel. Your understanding of physics is non-existent.

The Earth's atmosphere is transparent to the shortwave radiation coming in from the sun. This radiation passes through the atmosphere and warms the land and oceans. The land and oceans re-radiate that warmth as longwave infrared radiation. Although almost all of the gas in our atmosphere is also transparent to this outgoing longwave radiation, certain gases in the atmosphere, called greenhouse gases, intercept and absorb photons of this longwave radiation and either transfer that increased energy conductively to the surrounding gas molecules, thus warming the atmosphere, or they re-emit a photon of infrared radiation in a random direction. About half of the re-emitted radiation goes back downward to warm the Earth's surface. Once Solar photonic energy has entered the Earth's atmosphere, it turns into heat and that heat can only escape by being radiated away into space at the top of the atmosphere. Satellite instrumentation reveals that the Earth is radiating less energy than it is receiving. A scientific principle in physics called the Conservation of Energy shows that energy cannot be "lost" even though it can be transformed from one kind of energy to another kind.

The Earth is warming and the evidence of that warming is getting more obvious almost everywhere.

2010 was the hottest year on record. 2013 was the 4th hottest year on record. This last November was the hottest November on record.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Climate change deniers cite snowstorm: Debunking Donald Trump et al.

An intense blizzard, appropriately named Hercules, has blanketed the Northeast. Antarctic ice locked in a Russian ship containing a team of scientists—en route, no less, to do climate research. Record low temperatures have been seen in parts of the United States, and in Winnipeg, Manitoba, temperatures on Dec. 31, 2013 were as cold as temperatures on ... Mars.....

....

1. Statements about climate trends must be based on, er, trends. Not individual events or occurrences. Weather is not climate, and anecdotes are not statistics.

2. Global warming is actually expected to increase “heavy precipitation in winter storms,” and for the Northern Hemisphere, there is evidence that these storms are already more frequent and intense, according to the draft U.S. National Climate Assessment.

3. Antarctica is a very cold place. But global warming is affecting it as predicted: Antarctica is losing ice overall, according to the latest report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. However, sea ice is a different matter than land-based or glacial ice. Antarctic sea ice is increasing, and moreover, the reason for this may be climate change! (For more, read here.)

Finally, just one last thing: When it’s winter on Earth, it’s also summer on Earth ... somewhere else. Thus, allow us to counter anecdotal evidence about cold weather with more anecdotal evidence: It’s blazing hot in Australia, with temperatures in some regions set to possibly soar above 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the coming days.

its a shame we've let this become yet another partisan football because, in the end, if allow the continued dumbing down of America, we all lose.

Since man made global warming has never been proven there is no need to disprove it.

 

[RollingThunder]

Climate change deniers cite snowstorm: Debunking Donald Trump et al.

An intense blizzard, appropriately named Hercules, has blanketed the Northeast. Antarctic ice locked in a Russian ship containing a team of scientists—en route, no less, to do climate research. Record low temperatures have been seen in parts of the United States, and in Winnipeg, Manitoba, temperatures on Dec. 31, 2013 were as cold as temperatures on ... Mars.....

....

1. Statements about climate trends must be based on, er, trends. Not individual events or occurrences. Weather is not climate, and anecdotes are not statistics.

2. Global warming is actually expected to increase “heavy precipitation in winter storms,” and for the Northern Hemisphere, there is evidence that these storms are already more frequent and intense, according to the draft U.S. National Climate Assessment.

3. Antarctica is a very cold place. But global warming is affecting it as predicted: Antarctica is losing ice overall, according to the latest report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. However, sea ice is a different matter than land-based or glacial ice. Antarctic sea ice is increasing, and moreover, the reason for this may be climate change! (For more, read here.)

Finally, just one last thing: When it’s winter on Earth, it’s also summer on Earth ... somewhere else. Thus, allow us to counter anecdotal evidence about cold weather with more anecdotal evidence: It’s blazing hot in Australia, with temperatures in some regions set to possibly soar above 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the coming days.

its a shame we've let this become yet another partisan football because, in the end, if allow the continued dumbing down of America, we all lose.

Since man made global warming has never been proven there is no need to disprove it.

There is no such thing as 'proof' in science, RetardedGullibleSlug.

However, the human causation of the current abrupt global warming is very well established as a scientific fact.

Your delusional denial of the reality of AGW is the result of your extreme ignorance and moronic gullibility, not any problems with the scientific understanding of what is happening.

 

[Abraham3]

I notice repeatedly how the AGW knuckleheads will go on and on about the planet getting warmer. What they won't explain because they can't explain, is how what man does is effecting it.

Mother nature isn't going to follow anyone's political agenda. The lefties are simply using this scam to gain more control. And then there are the truly ignorant people such as the OP, who actually believe that stuff.

I'm terribly sorry you missed that. I would have bet my eyeteeth that everyone had seen it. Here's how it goes.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, man, by the combustion of fossil fuels (primarily coal and petroleum of course) has put hundreds of billions of tons of carbon dioxide into the Earth's atmosphere: enough to raise the level from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million.

Carbon dioxide is one of the greenhouse gases. It absorbs some of the infrared spectra. So, sunlight shines on the Earth where it is absorbed by the ocean and the land and a little by the air. Anything above absolute zero (and that would be everything) radiates infrared light (also known as radiant heat). A planet whose atmosphere had no carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases would allow all of that reradiated infrared (that wasn't aimed back at the Earth) to escape to space. But planets like ours, whose atmospheres DO have some greenhouse gases (GHGs from hereon) trap a portion of that radiation. Thus they tend to accumulate solar energy which increases their temperatures which increases the amount of infrared radiation. This carries on till things balance out again. But if the level of GHGs increases, the atmosphere will have to warm up to find a new equilibrium point again. If GHGs just keep climbing, so will temperatures. If the Earth had no carbon dioxide, it's average temperature would be almost 33 centigrade degrees cooler than it is. The Earth would be a snowball. So we humans need SOME CO2.

So, the CO2 that humans have added to the Earth's atmosphere has caused it to accumulate solar energy and it is still warming up, trying to find an equilibrium point. Of course we're still pumping GHGs into the air faster and faster, so it's always playing catch up. And CO2 stays in the air for quite a long time, so that even if we could magically stop all further CO2 emissions right this instant, the Earth's temperature would continue to rise for many, many years.

Okay, got the big picture? Do let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be glad to help out wherever I can.

Right, the "the big picture, I have a question.

Do you believe every Molecule of CO2 released into the atmosphere stays there forever?

No.

CO2, hard for people to grasp its significance, or insignificance.

Thus far all you got is theories, no fact.

Sigh, this gets tiresome.

We never will have facts. Theories don't get proven. They are supported or refuted. They are accepted or rejected. No proofs in the natural sciences - they would require a comprehensive examination of the entire universe.

Here is a fact, any particle from space, as in radiation that strikes a molecule of CO2, radiation from the sun, solar radiation loses energy after striking CO2.

Stuff is not bouncing around making things hot, its as simple as Billiards, or even a nuclear reaction, it gets weak, quickly. Hell, one can actually stand next to spent nuclear fuel and not get burnt to a crisp, its a simple principle, once a molecule or neutron or whatever strikes something, it loses its strength, even its heat.

CO2, a freind of life, which makes it an enemy of....................

Wow... now there's an analysis I've never heard before. And I bet your bottom dollar I'll never hear it again. I'm not even sure I know what you're trying to say. You're not a young Coloradan are you?

Okay, here goes... jeez, where to start.

When particles - or anything else - collides, energy is transferred. In a simple collision, one particle usually gains energy while the other particle loses energy. Sometimes, there's no change in either particle's energy. Sometimes things get complicated because one of the particles breaks into multiple, smaller particles. But there is one thing that is ALWAYS true of these collisions and it is the key that allows physicists and scientists and students to figure out what happened or what will happen in any given collision: the total amount of energy in the system will remain constant. This comes from the physical law that tells us "energy can neither be created nor destroyed". Energy can only be tranferred from place to place or transformed from one type to another or even transformed into matter and back from matter. But you can't create it out of thin air and you can't destroy it no matter how hard you try.

So, when you have a collision, the particles will all leave it with some fraction of the total energy the system (the system = all the particles under examination) possessed prior to the collision. The sum of that post-collision energy: from the potential and kinetic energy of the particles, of any energy that tried to sneak off as ejected photons of light or heat or some other EM radiation, of the added mass - it all remains the same, no matter what.

Now this is related and I wouldn't bring it up but you did. What does it mean when we talk about the temperature of some mass? What is the difference between a cubic foot of air at 85F and one at -15F? The answer is in the energy content of the individual gas molecules that make up cube. Each of them in the warmer cube has more kinetic energy. They fly around inside the cube at higher speed and more energy is transferred about as they collide with each other. And since they are all moving faster, they collide more often. If we had the same number of molecules in each block, the increased number of collisions, particularly with the surface of whatever container we're using, would increase the pressure the gas exerted against its restraints. If the gas were uncontained - unrestrained - the increased kinetic energy and resultant increased collisions would cause the molecules to spread apart. The gas expands and becomes less dense.

So, what's happening with the CO2 in our atmosphere. Well, as you know, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It absorbs certain portions of the infrared light spectrum. It absorbs just these frequencies because, in effect, some of the dimensions of its molecule match the wavelengths of those 'colors' of light. That allows the molecule to resonate with those kinds of light and in doing so, absorb their energy almost perfectly. So, I am a CO2 molecule just floating along and what happens. The sun shines on, say, a nearby rock, and warms it up. Being warm, it emits some infrared photons (light). The photon strikes me and I suck it up like a dry sponge. Well, that increases my energy content. I am now warmer myself. That added warmth will make it more likely that I will emit my own photon and rid myself of that extra energy. The photon I emit might get soaked up by another rock, some water, some human's hand or maybe another CO2 molecule. It doesn't really matter. What does matter is that if I - or some other GHG molecule hadn't absorbed that rock's emitted photon, it would have flown off into space. That energy would have been lost to the Earth. But instead I hung on to it. And over the long run, as energy comes in from the sun, but does not leave again because of CO2's absorption, the temperature of the Earth goes up.

Welcome to Global Warming.

Human are responsible for dang near every single molecule of CO2 that's been added to the atmosphere since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in 1750 or so.

Welcome to Anthropogenic Global Warming or AGW.

 

[Kosh]

Once again CO2 does NOT drive climate, never has.

And still no datasets with source code to prove their assertion.

All the AGW cultists can do is post the AGW church propaganda.

 

[Abraham3]

Tell me something Mr Kosh: what makes you think a dataset has source code?

While you're thinking about that, think about how you will refute a single thing I said. Saying it's propaganda (or garbage or lies or a scam or anything else you'd like to call it) is a hell of a lot easier than SHOWING that to be the case.

 

[PredFan]

I notice repeatedly how the AGW knuckleheads will go on and on about the planet getting warmer. What they won't explain because they can't explain, is how what man does is effecting it.

Mother nature isn't going to follow anyone's political agenda. The lefties are simply using this scam to gain more control. And then there are the truly ignorant people such as the OP, who actually believe that stuff.

I'm terribly sorry you missed that. I would have bet my eyeteeth that everyone had seen it. Here's how it goes.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, man, by the combustion of fossil fuels (primarily coal and petroleum of course) has put hundreds of billions of tons of carbon dioxide into the Earth's atmosphere: enough to raise the level from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million.

Carbon dioxide is one of the greenhouse gases. It absorbs some of the infrared spectra. So, sunlight shines on the Earth where it is absorbed by the ocean and the land and a little by the air. Anything above absolute zero (and that would be everything) radiates infrared light (also known as radiant heat). A planet whose atmosphere had no carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases would allow all of that reradiated infrared (that wasn't aimed back at the Earth) to escape to space. But planets like ours, whose atmospheres DO have some greenhouse gases (GHGs from hereon) trap a portion of that radiation. Thus they tend to accumulate solar energy which increases their temperatures which increases the amount of infrared radiation. This carries on till things balance out again. But if the level of GHGs increases, the atmosphere will have to warm up to find a new equilibrium point again. If GHGs just keep climbing, so will temperatures. If the Earth had no carbon dioxide, it's average temperature would be almost 33 centigrade degrees cooler than it is. The Earth would be a snowball. So we humans need SOME CO2.

So, the CO2 that humans have added to the Earth's atmosphere has caused it to accumulate solar energy and it is still warming up, trying to find an equilibrium point. Of course we're still pumping GHGs into the air faster and faster, so it's always playing catch up. And CO2 stays in the air for quite a long time, so that even if we could magically stop all further CO2 emissions right this instant, the Earth's temperature would continue to rise for many, many years.

Okay, got the big picture? Do let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be glad to help out wherever I can.

The problem with that lie is that CO2 follows increased temperatures. You are putting the cart before the horse. Any gas, and taken as a whole, the atmosphere is a gas, can hold more molecules in suspension the hotter it is. When the temperature of the atmosphere increases it tends to hold more CO2.

Sorry, physics and gas law doesn't follow your political agenda either.

If you need any more education, let me know. I'd be glad to help out whenever I can.

 

[PredFan]

If winters fail to disprove warming, summers must thus fail to prove warming.

True. But no one is trying to use summers to prove warming. They use long term temperature records. The usually average the values over a year to smooth out all the seasonal variation. Like this:

Cherry Picking, the tactic of choice for the AGW sheep and scammers.

 

[PredFan]

Only brain damaged liberals still cling to the Al Gore inspired nonsense of 'Global Warming'.

All they need to do is stick their head out the front door for 30 seconds to feel the bitter cold reality of a record setting winter. ...

Actually, only brain damaged rightwingnuts still cling to the denier cult myth that the Earth isn't warming, in spite of all of the scientific evidence showing that it is, in fact, rapidly warming.

All the rightwingnuts foolishly imagine they need to do is stick their head out the front door in order to know what the climate around the world is doing. The poor delusional retards are too stupid to understand the difference between the weather in their front yard one year in the wintertime and global climate all around the world all year for many years.

2013 is the 4th warmest year on record globally.

This last November was the warmest November on record globally.

Last month, December 2013, was the 346th consecutive month with a global temperature higher than the 20th century average.

2010 is tied with 2005 as the hottest year on record.

The decade from 2001 to 2010 was the hottest decade on record.

From 1998 to now, every year ranks among the hottest years on record.

The coolest years since 1998 are still hotter than the hottest years before 1998.

Only brainwashed retards and insane conspiracy theory nutjobs can look at these facts and the mountains of other evidence and data that the scientists have collected, and still remain in denial about the abrupt warming and the resultant climate changes that are obviously happening.

Cherry picking. Have fun with that, no one is buying it.

 

[PredFan]

It's amusing to me how warmers adapt argument to suit any occasion.


Sent from my ass using USMessageBoard.com

If it's hot, it's Global Warming.
If it's cold, it's Global Warming.
Raining? It's Global Warming.
Drought? It's Global Warming.
Is your ship caught in ice in the summer? It's Global Warming.
Is there less ice? It's Global Warming.
Hurricanes?? It's Global Warming.
No hurricanes? It's Global Warming.
Earthquakes? It's Global Warming.
Volcanos? It's Global Warming.

Whether the earth is warming or not is irrelevant, the question is whether man is causing it. And the answer to that is no.

 

[PredFan]

Climate change deniers cite snowstorm: Debunking Donald Trump et al.

An intense blizzard, appropriately named Hercules, has blanketed the Northeast. Antarctic ice locked in a Russian ship containing a team of scientists—en route, no less, to do climate research. Record low temperatures have been seen in parts of the United States, and in Winnipeg, Manitoba, temperatures on Dec. 31, 2013 were as cold as temperatures on ... Mars.....

....

1. Statements about climate trends must be based on, er, trends. Not individual events or occurrences. Weather is not climate, and anecdotes are not statistics.

2. Global warming is actually expected to increase “heavy precipitation in winter storms,” and for the Northern Hemisphere, there is evidence that these storms are already more frequent and intense, according to the draft U.S. National Climate Assessment.

3. Antarctica is a very cold place. But global warming is affecting it as predicted: Antarctica is losing ice overall, according to the latest report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. However, sea ice is a different matter than land-based or glacial ice. Antarctic sea ice is increasing, and moreover, the reason for this may be climate change! (For more, read here.)

Finally, just one last thing: When it’s winter on Earth, it’s also summer on Earth ... somewhere else. Thus, allow us to counter anecdotal evidence about cold weather with more anecdotal evidence: It’s blazing hot in Australia, with temperatures in some regions set to possibly soar above 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the coming days.

its a shame we've let this become yet another partisan football because, in the end, if allow the continued dumbing down of America, we all lose.

Since man made global warming has never been proven there is no need to disprove it.

That is the key: "Man-Made" global warming. It's false. To think that we can override the effect of the sun on our climate is absurd in the extreme.

 

[PredFan]

Climate change deniers cite snowstorm: Debunking Donald Trump et al.



its a shame we've let this become yet another partisan football because, in the end, if allow the continued dumbing down of America, we all lose.

Since man made global warming has never been proven there is no need to disprove it.

There is no such thing as 'proof' in science, RetardedGullibleSlug.

However, the human causation of the current abrupt global warming is very well established as a scientific fact.

Your delusional denial of the reality of AGW is the result of your extreme ignorance and moronic gullibility, not any problems with the scientific understanding of what is happening.

Yeah, and all the scientists that disagree, and there are many, are not real scientists in your religion right?

Whatever dumbass.

 

[PredFan]

Once again CO2 does NOT drive climate, never has.

And still no datasets with source code to prove their assertion.

All the AGW cultists can do is post the AGW church propaganda.

The truth is right there^^^^

 

[Abraham3]

If Winter doesn't disprove Global Warming, than neither Summer nor Hurricanes prove it.

Just sayin'.

What is wrong with you people? AGW is shown by global temperature records over decades. The world has been getting warmer and that WILL affect our weather, our seasonal cycles and a hundred other things. But they don't prove AGW - they are its effects.

 

[PredFan]

Let's not cherry pick the data. We are talking climate so let's look at some real data. Some data that covers enough to get a true picture:

 

[thanatos144]

Hey winter might not disprove global warming yet having parts of the country colder the the face of mars sure as hell drives a huge fucking hole right down the middle of the communist hoax that is man made global warming.

 

[PredFan]

One of the hallmarks of this scam is that they change the argument whenever it suits them. A few years back we were supposed to have snowless winters by 2010. When that didn't happen they changed the name to Climate Change so that whatever the climate does can be blamed on humans.

 

[thanatos144]

One of the hallmarks of this scam is that they change the argument whenever it suits them. A few years back we were supposed to have snowless winters by 2010. When that didn't happen they changed the name to Climate Change so that whatever the climate does can be blamed on humans.

communists found a way to make the changes to capitalism they wanted.

 

[Abraham3]

Let's not cherry pick the data. We are talking climate so let's look at some real data. Some data that covers enough to get a true picture:

Lovely picture. It's from Vostok I presume. You didn't say.

What's your point? Are you going to tell me how CO2 always lags behind temperature?

Are you? Don't be afraid. If that's what you were going to say, you go right ahead and say it.