Will robotics and Artificial Intelligence make an Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income Supplement necessary?

[Toddsterpatriot]

When productivity increases the opposite of inflation can occur.

Robotics and Artificial Intelligence will almost certainly greatly increase the productivity of USA and Canadian workers.

The Weimar Republic of Germany had hyper-inflation due to the production of consumer goods had been destroyed by the war. The Reparation payments to England and France pressured the Weimar Republic to print more money, but it was the lack of productivity that caused the hyper-inflation. The situation in the USA for the next decade seems to be very different as factors are dismantled in China and set up again in the continental USA.

When productivity increases the opposite of inflation can occur.

Awesome.

Sounds like we don't need to hand out free money.

 

[DennisPTate]

When productivity increases the opposite of inflation can occur.

Awesome.

Sounds like we don't need to hand out free money.

In a situation where the productivity of the USA greatly increases but the supply of money in the economy is restricted, then people simply cannot afford to purchase all that extra production cannot be purchased by anybody.

In a way that was done in 1929 but also in the two decades after the death of President Lincoln.

“I have two great enemies, the Southern army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. And of the two, the bankers are my greatest foe.”

Lincoln was re-elected President in 1864, and he made it quite clear that he would attack the power of the bankers, once the war was over. The war ended on April 9, 1865, but Lincoln was assassinated five days later, on April 14. A tremendous restriction of credit followed, organized by the banks: the currency in circulation in the country, which was, in 1866, $1,907 million, representing $50.46 for each American citizen, had been reduced to $605 million in 1876, representing $14.60 per capita. The result: in ten years, 56,446 business failures, representing a loss of $2 billion. And as if this was not enough, the bankers reduced the per capita currency in circulation to $6.67 in 1887!

[Alain Pilote]

Chapter 49 — The History of Banking Control in the United States

This fight of the International Financiers to install their fraudulent debt-money system has been particularly vicious in the United States of America since its very foundation, and historical facts show that several American statesmen were well aware of the dishonest money system the Financiers...

famguardian.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In a situation where the productivity of the USA greatly increases but the supply of money in the economy is restricted, then people simply cannot afford to purchase all that extra production cannot be purchased by anybody.

In a way that was done in 1929 but also in the two decades after the death of President Lincoln.

Why would the supply of money be restricted?

Thanks for repeating that fake plot by the bankers.

You never did admit that private banks actually do lend out deposits.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That is exactly what this discussion is all about. Mo Gawdat says that B. M. I. is the only choice in front of us if we want to avoid a pandemic of homelessness and extreme poverty even in the USA and Canada. Actually, our P. M. Justin Trudeau set in motion a pandemic of homelessness that can be seen in the City of Hamilton. His primary tactic was to make it nearly impossible for Canadian workers and companies to produce houses, apartments and other forms of real wealth. C o v i d 1 9 was used as an excuse to attempt to shut down the economy.

It seems to me that the Trudeau administration wanted to shut down the economy much more strictly than they were able to do. They probably wanted to obey their boss Bill Gates who did the lecture "Innovating to zero."

The problem here is that these rich people don't have a master plan. They'll try and get out of paying money as much as possible and hoard it for themselves.

Poor people can get very angry.

 

[there4eyeM]

Fundamentally, the costs of production will be drastically reduced. At the same time, the amount of money needed to be in circulation will also be reduced due to reduced wages. What will not be reduced is the consumption of necessities by a population that has fewer wage earners due to reduced employment of people. This is what must be addressed. Either an alternative to the classic exchange system (employee time traded for monetary rewards that can be used for consumption) must be found or the number of consumers without a medium of exchange must be reduced. This latter is obviously 'problematic'.

 

[DennisPTate]

Fundamentally, the costs of production will be drastically reduced. At the same time, the amount of money needed to be in circulation will also be reduced due to reduced wages. What will not be reduced is the consumption of necessities by a population that has fewer wage earners due to reduced employment of people. This is what must be addressed. Either an alternative to the classic exchange system (employee time traded for monetary rewards that can be used for consumption) must be found or the number of consumers without a medium of exchange must be reduced. This latter is obviously 'problematic'.

Yes, if a serious change is not set in motion that would make a high level of consumption to continue, that latter option is indeed extremely "problematic."

 

[HaShev]

The rather brilliant Mo Gawdat does believe that B. M. I. is one of the only ways to prevent a pandemic of homelessness and poverty as robotics and A. I. make so many careers nearly obsolete.

I happen to believe that he is correct but I have some suggestions as to how this shift can be done in such a way that the greatest boom in PRODUCTIVITY of workers will be set in motion that will lead to the greatest economic boom that has ever been seen.





I believe that Economist Milton Friedman set the intellectual stage for what must happen next.




Now... it is important to not set this up in such a way that produces some sort of "Mark of the Beast" situation. Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley was shown one version of how that error could well be made.

I spoke about the use of problem solving computing and jobs in my 2001 book "Keepers of The Unpopular Truth"
and it took almost 25 years before the Media and Even Elon started to discuss this stuff. Ai can create the problem but then can't it also compute the solution with ideas for jobs, like you discussed elsewhere, Desalination and water management related jobs will be a future need, jobs in constructing hwys to fit the newer forms of transport and it's safety needs, jobs in the carbon (strong light weight) materials for the flying car industry, jobs in building the infrastructure for the EV and Hybrid industry, jobs in space travel and terraforming and mining barren planets, etc etc
There will always be new needs and opportunities as focus and advances change and needs shift accordingly, along with their opportunities. As long as we stop sabotaging ourselves, we should be fine and find a way=solutions.

 

[DennisPTate]

I spoke about the use of problem solving computing and jobs in my 2001 book "Keepers of The Unpopular Truth"
and it took almost 25 years before the Media and Even Elon started to discuss this stuff. Ai can create the problem but then can't it also compute the solution with ideas for jobs, like you discussed elsewhere, Desalination and water management related jobs will be a future need, jobs in constructing hwys to fit the newer forms of transport and it's safety needs, jobs in the carbon (strong light weight) materials for the flying car industry, jobs in building the infrastructure for the EV and Hybrid industry, jobs in space travel and terraforming and mining barren planets, etc etc
There will always be new needs and opportunities as focus and advances change and needs shift accordingly, along with their opportunities. As long as we stop sabotaging ourselves, we should be fine and find a way=solutions.

That is my feeling as well. I am quite positive about the future world that is coming. I am sixty six so I feel a responsibility to make certain types of information more commonly known because I know that our children and grandchildren will have a difficult time gaining the background in understand that they so desperately need to assist in the organization of a vastly better world economy.

Generally the most ethical and altruistic people tend to leave management to the people who are more narcissistic and predatory.

I know of a specific near death experiencer who I believe has written a lot that can give you something to work with?

[Christian Andreason]

h. Who goes to heaven?​

In the end … believe it or not (sigh of relief), everyone gets to come home! Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE. When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher realms of heaven. If we do not practice love, we can only go so far and we will be made to incarnate somewhere out there in God’s super universe again and again (unlimited times) until we learn.

Lots of things! Individuals are laughing, relaxing and enjoying one another’s company. Some are off working together in pairs (or larger), so that they might bring a new concept or idea, or accomplish a divinely intended goal for the planet. Some are off to themselves reflecting in far away, peaceful places and learning how to work with and trust the power they hold within them. Others form close-knit groups and enjoy learning together as they are taught by various loving, advanced teachers and guides of spirit. The Realm is a real happening place I can tell you that! I always laugh when I think of society’s image of heaven as little cherubs sitting around playing harps on clouds. Ahhhh … it’s a whole lot more intense than that!

Christian Andréason's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Christian Andréason's Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

near-death.com

Christian Andréason's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Christian Andréason's Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

near-death.com

i believe that there are similarities in our ideas on economics, job creation, a social safety net with our beliefs on spirituality and the afterlife.

 

[HaShev]

My issue with Ai replacing jobs is in the form of customer service and those annoying lack of options that circle you back to not being able to advance in the customer service system and them ending up requiring more of your time and a live reps time in the end. A simple task can take hours and days to get resolved because the people running their tech leave out important options and links and make their web sites inoperable and services unreachable everytime they change things. Much like Myspace did with their perfectly good platform, until they had to make changes that made things worse not better, destroying their business model.

 

[JoeMoma]

Much will be replaced in this manner, but the world will always need welders, auto technicians, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters.

And if AI keeps advancing, that too will be done with robots.

 

[DennisPTate]

And if AI keeps advancing, that too will be done with robots.

Exactly!

Even now in 2025 much of the welding being done on the manufacturing of cars, is now done by robots.

 

[j-mac]

I suspect the odds are better than 50/50. It would be smart for us to begin an intelligent discussion on this now, but it's more likely that we'll deny the need for this until it reaches panic time.

Anyone who is paying close attention to how quickly AI and quantum computer are moving knows that we're already down the road, people are already losing jobs to AI, but Americans are no longer able to work together to solve complicated problems.

You can thank yourself for that phenomena in part....Nothing you post here says 'work together'.

 

[DennisPTate]

You can thank yourself for that phenomena in part....Nothing you post here says 'work together'.

I believe that working together is the key to preventing that "Dystopian Nightmare."

We must realize that a truly tiny group of people who's economic philosophy is 'Neo-Malthusianism" have gained control over the lives of Mr. Bill Gates, [as can be seen in his lecture "Innovating to zero." They obviously also have adopted the Al Gore Carbon Tax Theory because it may give a group of bureaucrats in the mentality of Bill Gates to gain nearly total control over the lives of ordinary Americans and Canadians.

Exactly!!!!

These next ten years are off the scale important!

"Can Someone Explain how we can Impliment Socialism and Still Enjoy the Benefits of Capitalism? "

.... "This is an excellent question!

The answer was given by Economist Milton Friedman and is MOST APPLICABLE in a situation where PRODUCTIVITY is about to take a massive boost, [which is EXACTLY our situation here in November of 2025]!

Robotics and Artificial Intelligence are about to cause the productivity of USA and Canadian workers to surge by twenty, thirty, forty or more percentage points. Depending on exactly how robotics and Artificial Intelligence are implemented the productivity of USA and Canadian workers could surge by well over seventy percent, [and the importance of some form of VOLUNTEERISM as an important part of the total economy could surge from somewhere around twenty percent of the economy to over fifty percent of the true value of the economy]!"

...
"My understanding is that Dr. Milton Friedman advocated for Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income Supplements to be distributed equally to all citizens and legal residents, that are separate from the person's last years income, or even their present income, so that this could be done with little or very little bureaucracy!

Like myself, Dr. Milton Friedman felt that bureaucrats tend to want more and more and more control over the lives of ordinary people.

If the author of the lecture "Innovating to zero" gains control over how bureaucracies are implemented then Mr. Mo Gawdat would be correct and we will be headed into a "Dystopian Nightmare."

"Can Someone Explain how we can Impliment Socialism and Still Enjoy the Benefits of Capitalism? "
...
YOU have got it! What we are talking about here is ultimately about defining the word "starving" in relation to the future of perhaps eighty percent of Canadian and Americans!

Here is how I believe that this will eventually work out which in my opinion is great news!

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

...
"I have reason to take this prediction seriously because my wife and several of her friends have similar spiritual gifts. They receive a level of guidance that I personally cannot comprehend but due to what I have seen in their lives I tend to take this prediction from Pastor David Wilkerson very seriously.

When the average USA or Canadian worker has more disposable income, probably due to a number of "Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income Supplements" in their bank accounts each month, then, many of them will purchase land, and build a second home or cottage outside of the cities and suburbs where their primary home is!

This will produce an economic boom in real estate!"

Post in thread 'Can Someone Explain how we can Impliment Socialism and Still Enjoy the Benefits of Capitalism?'

Nov 24, 2025

I repeat,the “facts” about deliberately starving one's own population were first presented by Dr. Goebbels. I hope you can find more of his works on the internet, which will give you more “facts” in your kampf against world communism.

YOU have got it! What we are talking about here is ultimately about defining the word "starving" in relation to the future of perhaps eighty percent of Canadian and Americans!

Here is how I believe that this will eventually work out which in my opinion is great news!

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country...

• DennisPTate

[Milton Friedman Ph. D] :
x. The Distribution of IncomeFriedman examines the progressive income tax, introduced in order to redistribute income to make things more fair, and finds that, in fact, the rich take advantage of numerous loopholes, nullifying the redistributive effects. It would be far more fair just to have a uniform flat tax with no deductions, which could meet the 1962 tax revenues with a rate only slightly greater than the lowest tax bracket at that time.

xi. Social Welfare MeasuresThough well-intentioned, many social welfare measures don't help the poor as much as some think. Friedman focuses on Social Security as a particularly large and unfair system.

xii. Alleviation of PovertyFriedman regarded welfare programs as misguided and inefficient. To replace them, he advocates a negative income tax, giving everyone a guaranteed minimum income.

Capitalism and Freedom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zebra]

OK, let's see if you can handle this very simple idea. Imagine you are living in 1932 in the City of Worgl Austria. Imagine that the Mayor and some elected officials get together and begin an experiment in economics that will later on be termed: "The Worgl Austria Local Money Experiment."

Would YOU have accepted a local currency scrip, under those circumstances?



If the government of Austria had reacted differently to the Worgl, Experiment, the rise of Adolf Hitler and his NAZI Party might have been stopped?

it was in Wörgl

 

[DennisPTate]

it was in Wörgl

Yes, but the government of Austria shut down what the local government was doing, even though it was extremely successful, and proved that there were ways for cities and towns to break out of The Great Depression.

The Truth About Money: The Money SystemIsnt There a Better Way?
by Francis and Lia Ayley] :

"City in Austria Printed Local Currency
Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.
Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.

This pattern of economic collapse and re-emergence of local currencies has occurred thousands of times in many parts of the world. When these currencies have failed or have been suppressed, banks have not always been to blame. Sometimes, local currencies fail because they have been badly designed or implemented. Sometimes, people lose interest in them when the mainstream economy recovers. But they have always returned in one form or another during times of economic failure.

Our present world situation is uniquely different. Despite a relatively prosperous and stable world economy, a quiet monetary revolution has been occurring around the globe over the last 20 years. Awareness is growing about the flaws in our current monetary system, and people are re-creating viable alternatives. We are witnessing for the first time the worldwide creation of money systems designed by the people who use them, instead of by central banks.

Time Dollars in Whatcom County"

[ The Truth About Money: The Money SystemIsnt There a Better Way?
by Francis and Lia Ayley}

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, but the government of Austria shut down what the local government was doing, even though it was extremely successful, and proved that there were ways for cities and towns to break out of The Great Depression.

When you're in a deflationary depression, the money supply should be expanded.

 

[DennisPTate]

When you're in a deflationary depression, the money supply should be expanded.

Absolutely, but doing what should be done can inspire some nasty rivals to become jealous.

The thirteen colonies were doing great before 1750 but then some serious rivals got involved.

We are in 1750. The United States of America does not yet exist; it is the 13 Colonies of the American continent, forming “New England”, a possession of the motherland, England. Benjamin Franklin wrote about the population of that time: “Impossible to find a happier and more prosperous population on all the surface of the globe.” Going over to England to represent the interests of the Colonies, Franklin was asked how he accounted for the prosperous conditions prevailing in the Colonies, while poverty was rife in the motherland:

“That is simple,” Franklin replied. “In the Colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportion to make the products pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power, and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

The English bankers, being informed of that, had a law passed by the British Parliament prohibiting the Colonies from issuing their own money, and ordering them to use only the gold or silver debt-money that was provided in insufficient quantity by the English bankers. The circulating medium of exchange was thus reduced by half.

“In one year,” Franklin stated, “the conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity ended, and a depression set in, to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployed.”

Then the Revolutionary War was launched against England, and was followed by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. History textbooks erroneously teach that it was the tax on tea that triggered the American Revolution. But Franklin clearly stated:

“The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters, had it not been the poverty caused by the bad influence of the English bankers on the Parliament: which has caused in the Colonies hatred of England, and the Revolutionary War.”

The Founding Fathers of the United States, bearing all these facts in mind, and to protect themselves against the exploitation of the International Bankers, took good care to expressly declare, in the American Constitution, signed at Philadelphia, in 1787, Article 1, Section 8, paragraph 5:

“Congress shall have the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof.”​

The bank of the bankers​

Chapter 49 — The History of Banking Control in the United States

This fight of the International Financiers to install their fraudulent debt-money system has been particularly vicious in the United States of America since its very foundation, and historical facts show that several American statesmen were well aware of the dishonest money system the Financiers...

famguardian.org

 

[Zebra]

Yes, but the government of Austria shut down what the local government was doing, even though it was extremely successful, and proved that there were ways for cities and towns to break out of The Great Depression.

it was called ... das Wunder von Wörgl .... the Wörgl Miracle

 

[DennisPTate]

it was called ... das Wunder von Wörgl .... the Wörgl Miracle

Did you hear of it even before I mentioned this article?

 

[Zebra]

Did you hear of it even before I mentioned this article?

yes, but was not sure in the beginning
then I googled and remembered