Why we need to nationalize our energy sector

[Bill Angel]

Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.

Because nationalized systems suck when compared to the free market. Want to make something less efficient? Put the government in charge.

In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?

Because the alternative is worse.

There is one model for government ownership of energy production that appears to be successful: the Tennessee Valley Authority. To quote from their web page:

"The Tennessee Valley Authority, a corporation owned by the U.S. government, provides electricity for 9 million people in parts of seven southeastern states at prices below the national average. TVA, which receives no taxpayer money and makes no profits, also provides flood control, navigation and land management for the Tennessee River system and assists utilities and state and local governments with economic development.

TVA's Mission and Vision

TVA has renewed its vision to help lead the Tennessee Valley region and the nation toward a cleaner and more secure energy future, relying more on nuclear power and energy efficiency and relying less on coal."

See: TVA: Home Page

 

[spectrumc01]

I can't fathom the lack of maturaty in a person that hates private biz cuz they are a bunch of money making meanies, but the begs that the government that only takes money, to take care of them.

You have to completely ignore current facts and history to think the government won't fuck it up.

Answer me this...who has my best intrests in mind?...who has this countries best intrests in mind?...it's not a matter of fucking it up, it is a matter lowering prices. The government doesn't need a profit, business does.

 

[FuelRod]

Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.

an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing. Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us? I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.

The solution is right at your fingertips.
All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.

 

[spectrumc01]

Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.

an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing. Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us? I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.

The solution is right at your fingertips.
All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.

more domestic production will not lower prices significanly enough. Look at any of your bills, do they ever go down? they say the rate stays the same because blah,blah,blah(pick any lame ass excuse). It will be the same for gas, history proves it.

 

[FuelRod]

If you don't understand the economic theory you really have no business suggesting what the Government should control and should not.

 

[spectrumc01]

If you don't understand the economic theory you really have no business suggesting what the Government should control and should not.

Explain to me this then...If I have two entities selling gas to me, A & B, entity A needs no profit, and entity B needs to make a profit, how does entity A sell me gas at a higher rate?

 

[Two Thumbs]

I can't fathom the lack of maturaty in a person that hates private biz cuz they are a bunch of money making meanies, but the begs that the government that only takes money, to take care of them.

You have to completely ignore current facts and history to think the government won't fuck it up.

Answer me this...who has my best intrests in mind?...who has this countries best intrests in mind?...it's not a matter of fucking it up, it is a matter lowering prices. The government doesn't need a profit, business does.

bullshit

No profit needed? Then how the fuck are they going to pay the people that work the rigs?
rig work is one of the most dangerous jobs. Do you expect people to do that job and get an average pay?

Your nuts to think the governement cares about you or the country. Poloticians #1 job is re-election. And if you hate a pol, you have to wait 4-6 years to 'try' to get rid of him.

If you hate an oil company, don't do biz with them, if enough people stop, they will either be forced to change or go under.

The government has no reprecusions for it's actions, lack of actions or screw ups.

 

[Toro]

Nationalizing our energy industry is a great idea.



If you want to produce less energy less efficiently.

 

[Anachronism]

I WORK FOR AN ELECTRIC & GAS UTILITY COMPANY. Now that the disclaimer has been made loud and clear......

This would be the most utterly ridiculous idea that I have heard in a long time. Realize that electric utility companies are already REGULATED by both the individual states and to a lesser degree the Federal Government. The most effective means for running electric utilities is on a regional basis, not on a National level. We already have the regional ISO's that oversee the system. Smaller, more distinct and defined areas are the best way to maximize the customer service, outage management, and electric distribution system. Trust me on this one. The company I work for is too big already. Making things LARGER is not going to help.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Nationalizing our energy industry is a great idea.



If you want to produce less energy less efficiently.

Put the government in charge of wet dreams and the birth rate would plummet.

then they would claim to have saved the planet from over crowding.

 

[whitehall]

Weren't you watching when Fannie Mae collapsed? It was supervised by congress in a weird partnership with the private sector. Politicians couldn't run an in-house post office without stealing stamps. The congressional caffeteria went under and had to be bailed out by the private sector. The short answer is that politicians are the worst people you want to put in charge of anything, especially energy production.

 

[Paulie]

SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.

I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.

There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary

The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.

Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.

I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.

by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.

The government doesn't have a profit motive. They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red. They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.

Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever. So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever. As long as oil is being provided, right?

You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?

 

[RadiomanATL]

SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.

I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.

There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary

The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.

Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.

I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.

by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.

The government doesn't have a profit motive. They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red. They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.

Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever. So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever. As long as oil is being provided, right?

You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?

OP killer right there.

 

[Sallow]

by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.

The government doesn't have a profit motive. They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red. They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.

Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever. So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever. As long as oil is being provided, right?

You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?

OP killer right there.

Not really.

And it sort of supports the OP..although that's not the intention.

 

[Paulie]

I'd go out on a limb and say the oil industry is already nationalized.

It's become pretty obvious now that the government will financially back stop big companies in the event that they face bankruptcy. So if Exxon makes a bunch of stupid mistakes and loses their ass, our tax dollars will prop them up anyway.

This way, we don't actually have to CALL it nationalization.

 

[RadiomanATL]

The government doesn't have a profit motive. They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red. They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.

Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever. So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever. As long as oil is being provided, right?

You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?

OP killer right there.

Not really.

And it sort of supports the OP..although that's not the intention.

Nonsense.

 

[JiggsCasey]

I'd go out on a limb and say the oil industry is already nationalized.

It's become pretty obvious now that the government will financially back stop big companies in the event that they face bankruptcy. So if Exxon makes a bunch of stupid mistakes and loses their ass, our tax dollars will prop them up anyway.

This way, we don't actually have to CALL it nationalization.

^ this...

but then...

what's that Mussolini referred to as the perfect merger between the corporation and the state?

 

[editec]

SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.

I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.

There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary

The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.

Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.

I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.

by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.

Would it?

Are you absolutely sure about that?

Why?

Show us the numbers and how the government would insure that there was enough energy and how they would fairly share it.

 

[KissMy]

The DOE just made a bunch more Solar loan guarantees.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Energy makes the world go around, especially in todays society. Electricity is a must have if you intend on living in the United States, with the notable exception of the Amish. Let it be said though that even the Amish are having a hard time fitting in and are moving further and further west. We use electricity for a wide variety of essential everyday needs from running our refridgerators (food), heating our homes (shelter), providing lights so we can operate and function around the clock, and to run our televisions (information gathering). Wether you have electricity or not determines what type of society you live in such as in the industrial world, or the third world. The question to ask yourself is...can I live for over a year without electricity? Every post cataclysmic scenerio puts man back decades if not longer because of the lack of electricity, society crumbles without it.

Electricity comes from a variety of sources, water, wind, solar, nuclear, and fosil fuels. Oil being the most versitile of the lot is the most coveted. Our society has entwined itself with oil and has become so dependant on it that without it we would not last very long. Oil provides the means to do everything from transportation to production to providing electricity, and to heating our homes (along with natural gas). I believe it would be fair to put oil into the same catagory as electricity when it comes to it's effect on society if it became absent. Society would crumble. Though it would be easier to get by without oil than electricity the effects would be very comparable. Let it be noted that alot of our electricity comes from oil as well.

Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet. In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue? I would put forth that in the intrests of the population our energy should be produced, maintained, and provided by our government to ensure an affordable price to all. Now wether the government hires independant contractors to help with this or not would remain to be seen.

Would this make us a socialist society? absolutely. Would this be a difficult transition? absolutely. Would this be beneficial to the population as a whole? absolutely. Would the oil fat cats and energy mongers fight this tooth and nail? without question, yes. In the quest for energy independance I feel that it is a must that we nationalize our energy sector. To leave it up to individuals to do what is right has not proven to be the answer (greed), leaving it up to wall street has also proven not to be the answer (free market system / capitalism), and leaving it up to government regulations (politics) is not the answer either. Even dealing with OPEC has proven not to work (foreign policy).

We as a nation of free people need to re-evaluate our energy situation before we are no longer a free people. This I believe is what our government was created to do, protect us from enemies foriegn and domestic, and to maintain a fair and level playing field for all. We are already part way there, we maintain a standing army and now we must follow up with a nationalized energy policy to ensure our way of life, our civilization can survive and thrive.

It usually takes a few posts before someone invokes Godwin's law, congratulations on doing it on the first post. The government was created because idiots like you wanted power to be concentrated in the hands of a select few and no one wanted to see that happen here. Congratulations on becoming the enemy you are calling on the government to fight.