Why we have to redistribute income through taxes

[Mathbud1]

The better answer is that if the US invested the taxes from the wealthy into infrastructure, people would earn the money who aren't wealthy. Never mind the overall benefits to the economy, like more people working, and more people spending their money to keep the wealthy in wealth, and allowing new wealth to be created.

Government takes most of the money it taxes from the wealthy and flushes it down the welfare sewer. The rich invest their money. That creates jobs. Government hands it out to ticks on the ass of society. That creates dependency and destroys jobs.

bs!

it flushes it down the military industrial complex


there is nothing more important than LABOR, without the worker bees there is nothing to invest in....

And without capital to buy raw materials there isn't anything for the worker bees to do. And without a manager directing the worker bees how efficient are they? And without a director organizing the managers how do the separate departments coordinate their efforts? And without anyone planning a direction for the company how long do you think they will stay profitable and in business?

Workers are PART of a company just like every other position is PART of the company.

 

[billyerock1991]

Why yes. Yes I am. If Unions are allowed to it so should EVERYONE ELSE. That's what it means to live in a few society. Only police states and progressive utopia nightmares muzzle speech.

the difference is you know what the unions are asking for ... you don't know what these corporations are wanting, you dolts ... unions are asking for more money for the worker, more workers ... the corporations are asking to take that money back and do it so they all lose ... look at all the retirement plans that have been stolen from retired Union workers under the disguise of keep the corporation open ... what do these corporations do ??? the get it to where its making good money, then move that plant to over seas to make larger profits ... you haven't a clue in what's going on here ..... you just listen to your repub-lie-tard masters all the way to the poor house ...then blame it on us liberals for not stopping it ... you're to stupid to pay attention

Please cite the union workers whose retirement has been stolen by companies moving oversees.

Airline works for one ... they were told by the government, Bush's government that these company now can take their retirement plans to save the company ... go look at all of the companies that Mit Romeny bought up and closed down to be moved to china... the first thing they did was take their retirement plans ... telling them it was to save their company ... when the company depleted their retirement plan, that company that mit was running, thats started making profit, he would then say they need to pay back the debt that they created for to him to buy the company ... he then would sell the company, causing the company to be sold to a corporation that he own, then that company would close down that company and move it to china ... and all of those retirement that were lost, forcing the american tax payer to pay them a small retirement ... now tell me that didn't happen ...

 

[billyerock1991]

The only fair tax is a flat tax: whatever percent, probably around 20%, applied to every single dollar earned by anyone, no deductions of any kind. That way special interests can't carve out subsidies to their activities, and anyone advocating for higher taxes will be willing to pony up themselves. Simple, easy, and eminently fair. It also gives everyone an incentive to make sure the USFG is only as big as it needs to be, and no more.

I would be a virtual tax cut to everyone because the simplification would cut compliance costs to a tenth. But the inability of pols to dole out goodies to favored groups is exactly what will sink its chances.

It would be a tax hike on everyone except the biggest welfare receivers, like billionaires and corporations. It's one of the dumbest tax systems to go with, which is why economists who are based in reality oppose it. But, I can see where stupidity is something you hold close in your belief system. Tell us again there's no difference between average and median. LOL.

hey it was republicans that thought it up what can ya say

 

[Contumacious]

The constitution should be amended to meet the modern marxist demands of govt dependent welfare parasites.....

Lean forward !!! Lmfao

You mean the people who do all the work?

Yeah, right.

.

 

[Mathbud1]

and since the competition in Labor includes the GLOBAL market the past few decades, where lots of cheap labor is available there has been no need to compensate the US worker because business can just go overseas and get cheaper labor to make their widgets... competition and free trade has obviously hurt the American worker, but helped the Chinese, the Indonesians, the Vietnamese etc

the chart in the op shows the US worker is producing more widgets per hour, and more profit dollars for the business but are not getting paid more for producing more....

Why are they producing more widgets?

Are they working harder? Are they more intelligent or skilled than they were in the past?

Or

Did someone buy machines that make their jobs easier? Did someone develop lean manufacturing processes that produce less waste and more output? Did someone spend millions studying supply line logistics and coming up with ways to improve them?

 

[billyerock1991]

Of course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

boy are you really fucked in the head .... you have no Idea what a liberal or a progressive is about... I don't know of any Progressive or liberal that supported Goldman sack or any multinational corporations ... we have been for years trying to get these multinational corporations from dumping their cheep products ... that are way cheeper then these small corporation here for years ... where the hell have you been
what do you think the liberals and progressive have been trying to do for years ??? we have been trying to pass regulations on these multinational corporations to pay tariffs on their products coming to this country ... so we can compete ... how can we compete with a multinational corporations that pays 12 cents a day to their 12 year old worker ??? heres how ...put a tariffs on their products ... thats all you can do ...but your republican masters say NOooooooooooo we won't allow that ... and it keeps getting worse...

as for gun laws ... we liberals and progressive don't like large mag.. and we want back ground check on all gun sales whether its done at a gun show, gun store or you do it from your home, thats it ... what's so god damn bad about that ...

If protecting industries through tariffs worked East Germany would be a powerhouse.

it work for the steel industry back in the 1970 saved their butts.. but hey what would you really know ... you think the unions are the bad guy

 

[deltex1]

The problem is obvious to anyone capable of reading charts. Unfortunately, most right wingers aren't that bright.

You chart is bullshit because the ave size of the American family has been decreasing drastically for the last several decades.

Here is a novel idea...get a job...the company pays you/redistributes part of its profits to your wallet...you buy your wife a taco and a burrito ...on and on the redistribution goes...

Good post..too bad it went over bobo's head.

 

[MikeK]

The income/wealth that is produced is earned by somebody. That is, someone is taking an investment risk. Why would anyone think that they are entitled to a distribution if they do nothing to earn it? This is essentially what you are saying. Someone advocating redistribution or rallying against income/wealth disparity is really asking for a handout - something for nothing.

The person originating this thread has no clue about economics.

You apparently have been conditioned by right-wing propagandists to believe redistribution means taking money from you and handing it to some "welfare queen." Right?

What you need to understand is one of the ways FDR raised the Nation out of the Great Depression is by imposing a 91% progressive tax rate -- which affected mainly the rich who were living like royalty while most Americans wallowed in abject poverty. He used that money to implement the WPA and CCC (make work) programs which enabled millions of unemployed Americans (including my father) to earn and spend money, which revitalized the economy and gave rise to the most productive and prosperous years in our history -- the 40s through the 80s.

Then came Ronald Reagan and "Trickle Down," which really means Siphon Up economics, the ultimate effect of which is seen in the rise of the One Percent, which is in fact a financial aristocracy whose influence in Washington has all but destroyed the middle class and has transformed America.

If Obama were not a puppet of Wall Street and the banking industry he would, among other viable measures, impose a confiscatory tax on the rich and implement a make-work program devoted to rebuilding our badly decayed infrastructure. Such a program would not be "handing over" money to any category. It would put Americans back to work and make America a much better place.

Unfortunately there will be no hope for constructive redistribution until we get rid of Obama and manage to elect a President with a socialist orientation. And if that word frightens you it's because you've been conditioned to think the kind of laissez-faire capitalism we're seeing today is the way to go.

It obviously is not.

 

[billyerock1991]

Why yes. Yes I am. If Unions are allowed to it so should EVERYONE ELSE. That's what it means to live in a few society. Only police states and progressive utopia nightmares muzzle speech.

the difference is you know what the unions are asking for ... you don't know what these corporations are wanting, you dolts ... unions are asking for more money for the worker, more workers ... the corporations are asking to take that money back and do it so they all lose ... look at all the retirement plans that have been stolen from retired Union workers under the disguise of keep the corporation open ... what do these corporations do ??? the get it to where its making good money, then move that plant to over seas to make larger profits ... you haven't a clue in what's going on here ..... you just listen to your repub-lie-tard masters all the way to the poor house ...then blame it on us liberals for not stopping it ... you're to stupid to pay attention

Of course we do. Unions are asking for things to make the unions stronger that's what they do. My dad was a lifelong Teamster and he watched his pension robbed repeatedly so the Teamster bosses could live large on the backs of the membership.

My dad despises the Teamsters.

you got a source for that lie of your ??? you know the lie about Teamster and he watched his pension robbed repeatedly so the Teamster bosses could live large on the backs of the membership. the unions couldn't touch his retirement ... only the corporation could thats the law ... it was designed to save it self from closing ... he should have been angry at the company not the union ... union can't touch or with draw any money from a retirement account ... you're lying here ...

 

[sealybobo]

Threads like these confirm how correct we are to fight -- to death if necessary, to retain our Second Amendment rights

Are you saying we should have shot the rich people who rigged the system and redistributed our wealth to themselves or are you only going to take up arms if we try to take what they stole back?

And are you rich or are you going to fight us for your master?

Chances are you aren't rich enough to worry about it. Chances are if we re distribute that wealth that'll put a few extra bucks in your pocket.

f course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

Well the people you vote for don't care about about llc's or mom and pop shops. If you notice who defends Walmart on USMB it's usually the right not us liberal progressives.

Great example. In secrecy Bush lifted the regulations on chinese tire companies shipping their cheap inferior tires into the USA. No regard for our domestic tire industry. Just one small example but it sort of explains why you are a stupid brainwash ****.

 

[billyerock1991]

Actually the steel imdndustry was already decimated under Carter and previously Ford. The major culprit was the unions, who demnded higher wages such that companes could not invest in modernizing equipment, nor could they fire workers they didnt need anymore.
But please reference what laws were passed that enabled companies to move off shore. I predict you will obfuscate, deflect, provide a wrong answer and then claim you already answered it.

no thats not true ... the part where high wages union workers caused it ... you go back and look at what caused it... again it was republicans deregulating tariffs on steel ... this again all started by steel from overseas companies being dumped on the united states ... causing the American steel companies to close down ... what happen was the congress passed tariffs on steel ... by doing so the steel industry came back ... not like it was ... but it came back with high union wages too ... so you are wrong on what cause its ... again this all started under Nixon, Ford, and Carter ... I believe it was carter that signed into law the tariffs on over seas steel... which started the slowing down of steel companies from shutting down...

your view of history is very interesting, very wrong but interesting. Steel making left the USA for two reasons----------unions and taxes. same reason that the textile industry and the commercial shipbuilding industry no longer exist in the USA

its interesting how the right spins things ... yes it is true that wages, taxes, and what you won't admit the dumping of steel in the country caused these companies to close... where you believe, but are afraid to leave out here, the part where the dumping of cheep steel on the country didn't have any affect on the company is you being disingenuous...
the dumping of cheep steel cause the companies to sell less steel ... by selling less steel, wages come into play ... the dumping of cheep steel cause you to have to pay your taxes on your company that not selling steel like it was ... making it appear that taxes and labor was too hight ... which they weren't ... if they were selling steel which we already know that cheep steel was being dumped in this country, that you choose to admit it wasn't the cause ... you would rather believe it was higher taxes and union labor that cause steel companies to fail ... Ive always known to make a company to work you have to have sales ... if your sales are gone down the toilet, then you have to cut your expenses ... by you just choosing unions and taxes is the furtherest from the whole truth

 

[Redfish]

no thats not true ... the part where high wages union workers caused it ... you go back and look at what caused it... again it was republicans deregulating tariffs on steel ... this again all started by steel from overseas companies being dumped on the united states ... causing the American steel companies to close down ... what happen was the congress passed tariffs on steel ... by doing so the steel industry came back ... not like it was ... but it came back with high union wages too ... so you are wrong on what cause its ... again this all started under Nixon, Ford, and Carter ... I believe it was carter that signed into law the tariffs on over seas steel... which started the slowing down of steel companies from shutting down...

your view of history is very interesting, very wrong but interesting. Steel making left the USA for two reasons----------unions and taxes. same reason that the textile industry and the commercial shipbuilding industry no longer exist in the USA

its interesting how the right spins things ... yes it is true that wages, taxes, and what you won't admit the dumping of steel in the country caused these companies to close... where you believe, but are afraid to leave out here, the part where the dumping of cheep steel on the country didn't have any affect on the company is you being disingenuous...
the dumping of cheep steel cause the companies to sell less steel ... by selling less steel, wages come into play ... the dumping of cheep steel cause you to have to pay your taxes on your company that not selling steel like it was ... making it appear that taxes and labor was too hight ... which they weren't ... if they were selling steel which we already know that cheep steel was being dumped in this country, that you choose to admit it wasn't the cause ... you would rather believe it was higher taxes and union labor that cause steel companies to fail ... Ive always know to make a company to work you have to have sales if your sales are gone down the toilet then you have to cut your expenses by you just choosing unions and taxes is the furtherest from the whole truth

dumping would not have been effective if the US companies did not have to deal with union wages and high taxes. Other countries help their industries, the US hobbles theirs.

 

[sealybobo]

Of course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

boy are you really fucked in the head .... you have no Idea what a liberal or a progressive is about... I don't know of any Progressive or liberal that supported Goldman sack or any multinational corporations ... we have been for years trying to get these multinational corporations from dumping their cheep products ... that are way cheeper then these small corporation here for years ... where the hell have you been
what do you think the liberals and progressive have been trying to do for years ??? we have been trying to pass regulations on these multinational corporations to pay tariffs on their products coming to this country ... so we can compete ... how can we compete with a multinational corporations that pays 12 cents a day to their 12 year old worker ??? heres how ...put a tariffs on their products ... thats all you can do ...but your republican masters say NOooooooooooo we won't allow that ... and it keeps getting worse...

as for gun laws ... we liberals and progressive don't like large mag.. and we want back ground check on all gun sales whether its done at a gun show, gun store or you do it from your home, thats it ... what's so god damn bad about that ...

If protecting industries through tariffs worked East Germany would be a powerhouse.

If countries protecting the industries that are vital to their economies didn't work every other country in the world EXCEPT the USA wouldn't be doing it but they are because it does work. American companies didn't want to protect industries that are vital to our economy because they wanted to ruin the economy. Renig on pensions, ship jobs overseas, lower wages, break unions.

Clearly NOT protecting vital industies in your country doesn't work unless you are the corporation and then you clean the **** up. Are you a worker or a rich guy? If you aren't rich, shut the **** up stupid.

Ok, don't like tariffs? Then just don't allow those companies to ship in products that are vital to your economy. Problem solved.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Are you saying we should have shot the rich people who rigged the system and redistributed our wealth to themselves or are you only going to take up arms if we try to take what they stole back?

And are you rich or are you going to fight us for your master?

Chances are you aren't rich enough to worry about it. Chances are if we re distribute that wealth that'll put a few extra bucks in your pocket.

f course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

Well the people you vote for don't care about about llc's or mom and pop shops. If you notice who defends Walmart on USMB it's usually the right not us liberal progressives.

Great example. In secrecy Bush lifted the regulations on chinese tire companies shipping their cheap inferior tires into the USA. No regard for our domestic tire industry. Just one small example but it sort of explains why you are a stupid brainwash ****.

Lie some more south Carolina is the tire Capitol of the USA

 

[sealybobo]

Threads like these confirm how correct we are to fight -- to death if necessary, to retain our Second Amendment rights

Are you saying we should have shot the rich people who rigged the system and redistributed our wealth to themselves or are you only going to take up arms if we try to take what they stole back?

And are you rich or are you going to fight us for your master?

Chances are you aren't rich enough to worry about it. Chances are if we re distribute that wealth that'll put a few extra bucks in your pocket.

Of course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

The wealthy live in gated communities. You couldn't shoot them even if you wanted. Meanwhile we are shooting each other.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I dont work to be rich

 

[billyerock1991]

Are you saying we should have shot the rich people who rigged the system and redistributed our wealth to themselves or are you only going to take up arms if we try to take what they stole back?

And are you rich or are you going to fight us for your master?

Chances are you aren't rich enough to worry about it. Chances are if we re distribute that wealth that'll put a few extra bucks in your pocket.

f course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

Well the people you vote for don't care about about llc's or mom and pop shops. If you notice who defends Walmart on USMB it's usually the right not us liberal progressives.

Great example. In secrecy Bush lifted the regulations on chinese tire companies shipping their cheap inferior tires into the USA. No regard for our domestic tire industry. Just one small example but it sort of explains why you are a stupid brainwash ****.

the sad part is they don't get it ... they just believe what their handlers tell them ... its them Damn unions... its them high taxes ... never mind they are dumping cheep tires on the marked ....never mind they are dumping cheep steel on the market ... in their minds its taxes and unions ... thats what they've been told ... thats what they will believe ... never looking at why ... the whole why.. sad ...just plan sad

 

[sealybobo]

f course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

Well the people you vote for don't care about about llc's or mom and pop shops. If you notice who defends Walmart on USMB it's usually the right not us liberal progressives.

Great example. In secrecy Bush lifted the regulations on chinese tire companies shipping their cheap inferior tires into the USA. No regard for our domestic tire industry. Just one small example but it sort of explains why you are a stupid brainwash ****.

Lie some more south Carolina is the tire Capitol of the USA

Yea you stupid **** and Bush & the GOP were trying to destroy the industry by pitting chinese labor/products against American labor products.

I'm in Michigan. Auto capital of the world. We have Goodyear here and this was big news back when Bush was president.

I know you idiots have forgotten half the shit he pulled. That's why they say people who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. The GOP will **** us all again because we YOU don't even know they fucked you the first time.

Obama: Over a thousand Americans are working today because we stopped a surge in Chinese tires.

The White House based that claim on Bureau of Labor Statistics data that show the number of tire manufacturing jobs went from 50,800 in September 2009, when a new tariff on Chinese tires was announced, to 51,900 in October 2011, the latest figures available. That’s a gain of 1,100 jobs.

Lobbyists Paid Off by China vs. 30,000 US Workers: Which Side Will Obama Choose?

 

[westwall]

The income/wealth that is produced is earned by somebody. That is, someone is taking an investment risk. Why would anyone think that they are entitled to a distribution if they do nothing to earn it? This is essentially what you are saying. Someone advocating redistribution or rallying against income/wealth disparity is really asking for a handout - something for nothing.

The person originating this thread has no clue about economics.

You apparently have been conditioned by right-wing propagandists to believe redistribution means taking money from you and handing it to some "welfare queen." Right?

What you need to understand is one of the ways FDR raised the Nation out of the Great Depression is by imposing a 91% progressive tax rate -- which affected mainly the rich who were living like royalty while most Americans wallowed in abject poverty. He used that money to implement the WPA and CCC (make work) programs which enabled millions of unemployed Americans (including my father) to earn and spend money, which revitalized the economy and gave rise to the most productive and prosperous years in our history -- the 40s through the 80s.

Then came Ronald Reagan and "Trickle Down," which really means Siphon Up economics, the ultimate effect of which is seen in the rise of the One Percent, which is in fact a financial aristocracy whose influence in Washington has all but destroyed the middle class and has transformed America.

If Obama were not a puppet of Wall Street and the banking industry he would, among other viable measures, impose a confiscatory tax on the rich and implement a make-work program devoted to rebuilding our badly decayed infrastructure. Such a program would not be "handing over" money to any category. It would put Americans back to work and make America a much better place.

Unfortunately there will be no hope for constructive redistribution until we get rid of Obama and manage to elect a President with a socialist orientation. And if that word frightens you it's because you've been conditioned to think the kind of laissez-faire capitalism we're seeing today is the way to go.

It obviously is not.

it would be nice if there were a socialist country that has actually prospered. they don't though. The middle class gets fucked over and they get to enjoy downward mobility while the wealthy STAY wealthy, because they can hide their wealth.

No, socialist countries have merely enjoyed the same level of misery. That's why all those illegals are escaping from their socialist utopias to come here!

 

[westwall]

Are you saying we should have shot the rich people who rigged the system and redistributed our wealth to themselves or are you only going to take up arms if we try to take what they stole back?

And are you rich or are you going to fight us for your master?

Chances are you aren't rich enough to worry about it. Chances are if we re distribute that wealth that'll put a few extra bucks in your pocket.

Of course. Who do you think is pushing gun control? The wealthy can't kill you till you're disarmed. The multinational corporations are not our friends. All these laws that are passed to regulate corporations really serve to harm the smaller corporations that are in local competition with the multinationals.

I love the small LLC's and the mom and pop businesses that I support, I don't like the big box stores and assholes like Goldman Sachs that you progressives bend over backwards to support.

The wealthy live in gated communities. You couldn't shoot them even if you wanted. Meanwhile we are shooting each other.

Not too bright are you.... Not surprising in the slightest...