Why the Sudden Doubts about the Verdict?

[SavannahMann]

So, what is it they testified too?

That Trump had a business ledger account to pay for an NDA? You know that NDAs are not crimes. It might have been a crime if the money came from his campaign, but it has been asserted that it did not. They can't, without serious contortions of law, prove that the ledger information is illegal.

Yet, they will get a conviction because the Jury cannot remain impartial.

You can’t write off personal expenses as business expenses. If you take your girlfriend to Barbados, you can’t write it off as a business expense.

 

[Darkwind]

You can’t write off personal expenses as business expenses. If you take your girlfriend to Barbados, you can’t write it off as a business expense.

In fact, you can. The issue was whether he used campaign funds, and it's been proven he did not. Businesses often spend money on NDAs for various purposes, including covering for the C-suite. It's been a business practice for tens of decades, if not more.

Besides, to 'write it off' as a business expense would imply that its a tax issue, not a business issue.

 

[westwall]

Because it's exactly where you or I would be had we been charged with the same crimes.
Why should he be treated any differently?

Mueller spent 40 million dollars and used 150 agents to investigate Trump over 3 years, and they couldn't find a crime.

We KNOW this.

Trump is being prosecuted because he is a threat to the ruling class.

In other words we are now a banana republic thanks to democrat party criminality.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Mueller spent 40 million dollars and used 150 agents to investigate Trump over 3 years, and they couldn't find a crime.

We KNOW this.

Trump is being prosecuted because he is a threat to the ruling class.

In other words we are now a banana republic thanks to democrat party criminality.

No, we don't. Mueller CHOSE not to recommend any charges to Congress as he didn't consider the charge of collusion. But it was all there in Part 1 of his report. Part 2 had to do with Obstruction and he laid out a convincing case (despite Billy Barr's attempt to pre-empt it) and expected Congress to follow up...which Nancy declined to do...wonder if Trump sent her fruit basket for that?

Trump is being prosecuted because he engaged in criminal behavior that warranted indictments by a grand jury of he peers...who obviously thought there was sufficient evidence to indict.
And the only person Trump is a threat to right now.....is Trump. Happens when you are corrupt and incompetent.

 

[AntonToo]

It was said by the great Rush Limbaugh "It isnt the fact that someone is found not guilty, but the seriousness of the charge" that matters. Unless it is a Democrat, then it is time to circle the wagons.

Cool story. Whats this then?

Democratic senators open to expelling Menendez if convicted, as party leaders struggle with indicted members

(CNN) — Democratic senators are signaling an openness to expelling Sen. Bob Menendez if he’s convicted in his corruption trial, as House and Senate leaders tread carefully around their indicted

www.wkow.com

 

[AntonToo]

You mean if all 12 jurors vote to acquit him? Then you might have a point, but that's not going to happen.

The best that Trump can hope for is one Juror hanging the jury.

But I doubt that will happen, given the disastrous case his lawyers put on.

100%

Trump's only hope is he has one or two dyed-in-the-wool Magatards among the jury to hang the trial.

No sane jurist will find that Trump Co. payments to Cohen were NOT for NCD, or that Trump for whom it was all done didn't authorize this scheme.

 

[JoeB131]

The deal for the pardon was, Nixon gave up half his Presidential Retirement salary, was stripped of his ability to do Law and could not run for any public office. He didn't get off scot free. The problem was, he was also the worlds most premier expert in foreign affairs and was on a retainer to assist the government in that area which made up for his loss of retirement pay. There is a huge difference between a useful crook and a unuseful idiot.

Do you have any reference to conditions on Nixon's pardon, because I lived through that time period, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

the only time I remember Nixon having any "return to grace" was during Deng Xioaping's visit to the US, where he was a guest. He kind of upstaged Carter's recognition of China.

Had tRump (the t is silent) taken something like that and then cooperated then he wouldn't be where he is today and the US would be much better off.

You really see Trump asking Biden for a pardon?

The adaptability of the GOP is it's ability to cut itself loose from toxic figures like Nixon, McCarthy, Hoover, even George W. Bush. But it can't seem to quit Trump.

 

[westwall]

No, we don't. Mueller CHOSE not to recommend any charges to Congress as he didn't consider the charge of collusion. But it was all there in Part 1 of his report. Part 2 had to do with Obstruction and he laid out a convincing case (despite Billy Barr's attempt to pre-empt it) and expected Congress to follow up...which Nancy declined to do...wonder if Trump sent her fruit basket for that?

Trump is being prosecuted because he engaged in criminal behavior that warranted indictments by a grand jury of he peers...who obviously thought there was sufficient evidence to indict.
And the only person Trump is a threat to right now.....is Trump. Happens when you are corrupt and incompetent.

mueller had 150 of the most virulent anti Trump assholes he could find. They didn't find a damned thing. If they had found a dog license violation they would have broadcast that to the world. They found NOTHING! So stop lying.

 

[Seymour Flops]

100%

Trump's only hope is he has one or two dyed-in-the-wool Magatards among the jury to hang the trial.

No sane jurist will find that Trump Co. payments to Cohen were NOT for NCD, or that Trump for whom it was all done didn't authorize this scheme.

Scheme for what?

There was nothing illegal about paying for an NDA, and nothing false about calling payments to a lawyer “legal expenses.” Whoever made those entries correctly identified them.

The one likely crime was Cohen pumping up his reimbursement to be more than double the money he advanced to make the NDA payment. Given his admitted propensity to commit fraud by that method in reaction to perceived slights that makes much more sense.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Why should a President be above the law?

He committed his crimes on that DA's turf.

If he actually shot someone one Fifth Avenue, would you say, "Well, that's just a local DA!"

He didn't commit any crimes, you buffoon! Yet that didn't stop local DA's from bringing charges against him. Are you REALLY so dense that you don't grasp the precedent this sets going forward?

 

[Vrenn]

He didn't commit any crimes, you buffoon! Yet that didn't stop local DA's from bringing charges against him. Are you REALLY so dense that you don't grasp the precedent this sets going forward?

Almost everyone in Prison claims they didn't commit any crimes and were unfairly tried and treated. Funny how that works out, Bugsy.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Almost everyone in Prison claims they didn't commit any crimes and were unfairly tried and treated. Funny how that works out, Bugsy.

Are you proud of the way that you on the left have perverted our system of justice trying to keep Joe Biden, the worst President in modern US history in office, Vrenn?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Guilty or not, he is and always still will be a sleazeball.

And your President for 8 years.

That is if he decides to leave office!

 

[Care4all]

At the beginnng and through most of the trial, Democrats on her were crowing about Trump going to prison, Republicans being forced to vote for a felon, etc. Now the attitude seems to be "wait and see," and the moral cowardice of, "I'll respect the jury's verdict."

Even the WaPo is lowering expectations - they defining "high expectations" as a former president and current frontrunner literally imprisoned by the opposition party, banana republic style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/21/forget-everything-you-think-you-know-about-what-trump-jury-will-do/

I would caution people, based on my own experience, to remember that their experience from the outside is as different than the jury’s as the courtroom sketches are from the reality of being there in person. And I would note that Trump’s guilt will ultimately be decided not on whether the public thinks the case has been made or even on whether the jury does, but instead on the conversation the jury has within the constraints of evidence and the law to which they have been exposed.

And no one can reliably predict how that conversation will unfold.

I don't get it. If the evidence is so strong, and the judge so fair, and the Jury made of savvy New Yorkers who won't be put off by the likes of fellow New Yorker Michael Cohen, why doubt the outcome? If Trump's actions are so proven, and they fit so well into a clearly defined crime, and the witnesses so credible, why would you not predict a swift verdict of guilty on all counts?

Team Trump barely responded to the prosecution's case. Two witnesses, both of whome the fair judge cut off from answering. The jury will consider only the prosecution's examinations, the defense's cross, and the closing arguments. How can you doubt a victory for your side?

Is is possible that this is the answer, incredible as it may seem:

Did you really and truly not know what a farce this trial was from the beginning? Did you believe your own nonsense about no one being above the law, and this case being a simple example of Donald Trump finally facing trial for his crimes as anyone else would? Now, having seen how absurdly weak and counter to the law, this prosecution is, you pretend that you only care that the process was carried out, and you were never expecting a particular outcome?

I'm disappointed in you, really. I would have expected you to keep up the cry of "Felon Trump" right up until the hung jury was announced and then to denounce the sneaky Trumpers who must have lied their way onto the jury.

But, you will respect the findings, eh?

I look forward to seeing you keep that promise.

it isn't the facts proven in court that you need, the facts of the case have to be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt..... That's a high bar!

The OJ jury did not believe beyond a reasonable doubt, that the State had proven he murdered them beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Vrenn]

Are you proud of the way that you on the left have perverted our system of justice trying to keep Joe Biden, the worst President in modern US history in office, Vrenn?

I normally vote Republican except for 2020, 2022 and 2024 where there are NO real Conservative Republicans running either at the Fed level or even local level. You want my vote, put up a plank that tells us what you are for and what you plan on fixing. Sorry, a one item plank of "Get Rid of Biden" doesn't cut it.

You want to see a decent Republican Plank well here one is from 1956, the last real plank ever offered by the Republicans.

Instead of

What he said
And get rid of Biden

 

[AntonToo]

Scheme for what?

There was nothing illegal about paying for an NDA

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.



Read it a few more times and reply only when it sinks in.

 

[Man With A Plan]

I normally vote Republican except for 2020, 2022 and 2024 where there are NO real Conservative Republicans running either at the Fed level or even local level. You want my vote, put up a plank that tells us what you are for and what you plan on fixing. Sorry, a one item plank of "Get Rid of Biden" doesn't cut it.

You want to see a decent Republican Plank well here one is from 1956, the last real plank ever offered by the Republicans.

Instead of

What he said
And get rid of Biden

I could care less about Biden. I don't think he's running the country. Half the time I don't think he knows he's President. It's Biden's policies I want to get rid of. He's letting the progressive wing of the Democrat Party run things and they're some of the biggest idiots around!

 

[Man With A Plan]

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.

ILLICIT ELECTIONEERING BY FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO CONCEAL NDA.



Read it a few more times and reply only when it sinks in.

NDA's aren't illegal, Anton...try and keep up!

 

[Seymour Flops]

it isn't the facts proven in court that you need, the facts of the case have to be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt..... That's a high bar!

The OJ jury did not believe beyond a reasonable doubt, that the State had proven he murdered them beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yes, the jury found out that the lead investigator, who claimed to have found the most damning evidence had lied under oath, and hated wealthy black men who dated or married white women. They didn’t trust the messenger, so they didn’t trust the message.

The messengers in the Trump trial are even more untrustworthy. A DA who literally ran on a platform of getting Trump for something - anything. A lead prosecutor who left a senior position at DOJ just for the opportunity to get Trump’s scalp on his belt and a star witness who makes his living spewing profanity laced Trump derangement.

 

[AntonToo]

NDA's aren't illegal, Anton...try and keep up!

Trump was charged for FALSIFYING BUSSINESS RECORDS.

Yes, thats illegal, stop posting idiotic nonsense.