Why Socialism will never work...

[bripat9643]

People seem to see some socialist national endeavors as desirable but they don't need the whole nation to go socialistic, only some programs. That may be why so many nations have a mixed economic system, some socialism and some capitalism. It does not have to be all or nothing.

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Bullshit. What you really mean is that the world is full of bootlicking turds like you who can't leave well enough alone.

 

[Boss]

People seem to see some socialist national endeavors as desirable but they don't need the whole nation to go socialistic, only some programs. That may be why so many nations have a mixed economic system, some socialism and some capitalism. It does not have to be all or nothing.

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

The reason our health care system was failing was not because free market capitalism failed. Many years ago, we began to implement governmental regulations and mandates and introduced socialization into the free market system which turned it into a corporatist system (socialist-capitalist). THAT is the system which failed. We're currently seeking to replace that with a totally socialist system which will be a disaster.

During our founding, people certainly got sick and needed health care. One of our founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin, is responsible for the first public hospital in America. So why do you think the founding fathers didn't say... hey, you know it would be a great idea for us to all pool our resources and provide free health care for everyone in society? The answer is, it's at the very root of who we are as a nation. We are free people who can decide for ourselves when it comes to our health care, just as we are free to decide on pretty much everything else.

But we injected socialism into our system and killed the free market aspect. Now we've gotten so far out of whack, insurance rackets, corporatism, politics, regulatory mandates, indigent care laws, cronyism, corruption... all factoring into price the consumer is expected to pay. Like a giant out-of-control snowball. The quality we expect in health care is expensive. Yet people think we can somehow make it free for everyone... a right we are entitled to. We will bankrupt ourselves before we ever achieve such a dream.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

People seem to see some socialist national endeavors as desirable but they don't need the whole nation to go socialistic, only some programs. That may be why so many nations have a mixed economic system, some socialism and some capitalism. It does not have to be all or nothing.

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Bullshit. What you really mean is that the world is full of bootlicking turds like you who can't leave well enough alone.

Nope. Capitalism without regulation is a disaster.

 

[bripat9643]

People seem to see some socialist national endeavors as desirable but they don't need the whole nation to go socialistic, only some programs. That may be why so many nations have a mixed economic system, some socialism and some capitalism. It does not have to be all or nothing.

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Bullshit. What you really mean is that the world is full of bootlicking turds like you who can't leave well enough alone.

Nope. Capitalism without regulation is a disaster.

Our economy exploded before the regulatory state came into existence. That's what made us the greatest power in the world by WW I.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

People seem to see some socialist national endeavors as desirable but they don't need the whole nation to go socialistic, only some programs. That may be why so many nations have a mixed economic system, some socialism and some capitalism. It does not have to be all or nothing.

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

And over time we learned that the free market gave us even bigger problems so a Republican president began trying to regulate that free market economy. Now most economics is regulated. Perhaps someday we will find the right combination and will have solved depressions, poverty, safe working condition and so on, but we know free market doesn't work.

How is socialism working in Venezuela?

Crappy but it doesn't have to be.

It never hasn't been. A hundred years of failure and all of a sudden you think you know how to make it work?

Failures? Name them?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Capitalism made The United States the greatest country on earth. Socialism has failed, everywhere it's been tried.

Capitalism and slavery you should say. And back then workers were tossed aside if they were hurt on the job. The capitalists would just hire another low pay laborer. Jay Gould bragged that he could hire half the working class to kill the other half. Capitalism was great back then if you were a capitalist.

How awesome was socialism in The Soviet Union?

Communism, not Socialism.

U.S.S.R: Union of Soviet and Socialist Republics.

What's in a name? Is this democratic - the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Yes, or no?

 

[bripat9643]

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

And over time we learned that the free market gave us even bigger problems so a Republican president began trying to regulate that free market economy. Now most economics is regulated. Perhaps someday we will find the right combination and will have solved depressions, poverty, safe working condition and so on, but we know free market doesn't work.

How is socialism working in Venezuela?

Crappy but it doesn't have to be.

It never hasn't been. A hundred years of failure and all of a sudden you think you know how to make it work?

Failures? Name them?

USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Chile, Angola, Mozambique, Yugoslavia, East Germany, North Korea, Hungary, Poland and Romania to name a few

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Bullshit. What you really mean is that the world is full of bootlicking turds like you who can't leave well enough alone.

Nope. Capitalism without regulation is a disaster.

Our economy exploded before the regulatory state came into existence. That's what made us the greatest power in the world by WW I.

Actually is was plenty of snake-oil and disaster, hence why the regulations came about. If men were honest, the Invisible Hand would work. It doesn't because they aren't.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And over time we learned that the free market gave us even bigger problems so a Republican president began trying to regulate that free market economy. Now most economics is regulated. Perhaps someday we will find the right combination and will have solved depressions, poverty, safe working condition and so on, but we know free market doesn't work.

How is socialism working in Venezuela?

Crappy but it doesn't have to be.

It never hasn't been. A hundred years of failure and all of a sudden you think you know how to make it work?

Failures? Name them?

USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Chile, Angola, Mozambique, Yugoslavia, East Germany, North Korea, Hungary, Poland and Romania to name a few

Communist, now mostly capitalist. Capitalism works, it just has serious issues. Places like Sweden address those, using Socialism. So do we...

 

[Slade3200]

There is no way to have a "mixed economic system" of both socialism and capitalism.... not "free market" capitalism, anyway. Free market economics relies upon individual freedom to purchase and sell according to values determined by supply and demand. Socialism is invasive to that process. Just the presence of socialism in a free market system, kills the free market aspect and the system becomes a socialist-capitalist one. A socialist-capitalist system is what is known a corporatism or "crony capitalism" and is not anything remotely close to free market capitalism. This is an undesirable system.

We have, in this country, systems that have been established which many people mistakenly consider to be "socialistic" ...like Social Security, the military, police and fire services, etc. This is not Socialism. These are examples of constitutionally-enumerated powers our framers built in to our system because they realized there were certain areas where free market capitalism couldn't handle things effectively.

Note... effectively, not efficiently. Often times, these enumerated things handled collectively by the government are not efficient but they are effective. Free market could be more efficient but not as effective because the incentives are all wrong. There is a reason the framers painstakingly outlined the few things that were to be dealt with collectively and left everything else to free market forces through individual and state freedom.

You make a good argument. Many view the free markets handling of the healthcare system as abusive, inefficient, and ineffective to the point where government intervention was needed. During the time of the constitution our infrastructure didn't include many of the elements in our current economy so it is up to our democracy to decide who should be in control of taking care of the health needs of our population. I'd prefer the free market however, they messed up. I fear our banking system and wall street heading down the same path with the financial sector and I can only hope they get their shit together. You can't simply blame liberals or democrats for the increasing size of government... There is cause and effect. If the private sector can build trust and show responsibility then perhaps we can start shrinking government and move back towards a more capitalistic free market system.

Capitalism, left to itself, always eats itself, like democracy. It's also not the answer to every problem facing society.

Bullshit. What you really mean is that the world is full of bootlicking turds like you who can't leave well enough alone.

Nope. Capitalism without regulation is a disaster.

Our economy exploded before the regulatory state came into existence. That's what made us the greatest power in the world by WW I.

So we became the greatest power by WW1 which was 1914-1918... 10 years later there was the great depression. What do you think caused that? How do you think we got out of it?

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Capitalism made The United States the greatest country on earth. Socialism has failed, everywhere it's been tried.

Capitalism and slavery you should say. And back then workers were tossed aside if they were hurt on the job. The capitalists would just hire another low pay laborer. Jay Gould bragged that he could hire half the working class to kill the other half. Capitalism was great back then if you were a capitalist.

How awesome was socialism in The Soviet Union?

Communism, not Socialism.

U.S.S.R: Union of Soviet and Socialist Republics.

What's in a name? Is this democratic - the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Yes, or no?

Technically, yes. The NORKs have an elected parliament.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Capitalism and slavery you should say. And back then workers were tossed aside if they were hurt on the job. The capitalists would just hire another low pay laborer. Jay Gould bragged that he could hire half the working class to kill the other half. Capitalism was great back then if you were a capitalist.

How awesome was socialism in The Soviet Union?

Communism, not Socialism.

U.S.S.R: Union of Soviet and Socialist Republics.

What's in a name? Is this democratic - the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Yes, or no?

Technically, yes. The NORKs have an elected parliament.

Wonderful. I'll put you down as a person who believes a dictatorship is a democracy....

 

[Boss]

Perhaps both beasts were feeding eachother, however, I don't think

Free market capitalism isn't a beast to be fed. It is simply free people making decisions and choices based on their wants, needs and desires... coupled with entrepreneurs who provide for those needs, wants and desires and a mutual transaction between the parties. When left alone, it generally works. The problems arise when someone comes along and begins to tinker with the system by introducing socialized tweaks in a supposed "good faith" effort to make it better.

But here's the analogy... it's like you have a very pristine fresh water aquarium and you decide that you want to have some salt water fish as well... so you set aside one corner of the aquarium and introduce salt water fish and salt water into the system... you've not accomplished what you wanted to... you've ruined the system forever. It's no longer a fresh water system and it can't be a salt water system. When you try to mix free market capitalism with socialism, you get socialist-capitalism, which is corporatism... it breeds corruption and doesn't work.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Perhaps both beasts were feeding eachother, however, I don't think

Free market capitalism isn't a beast to be fed. It is simply free people making decisions and choices based on their wants, needs and desires... coupled with entrepreneurs who provide for those needs, wants and desires and a mutual transaction between the parties. When left alone, it generally works. The problems arise when someone comes along and begins to tinker with the system by introducing socialized tweaks in a supposed "good faith" effort to make it better.

But here's the analogy... it's like you have a very pristine fresh water aquarium and you decide that you want to have some salt water fish as well... so you set aside one corner of the aquarium and introduce salt water fish and salt water into the system... you've not accomplished what you wanted to... you've ruined the system forever. It's no longer a fresh water system and it can't be a salt water system. When you try to mix free market capitalism with socialism, you get socialist-capitalism, which is corporatism... it breeds corruption and doesn't work.

What you get is what we have, and Sweden has better, a Mixed economy.

 

[Boss]

Perhaps both beasts were feeding eachother, however, I don't think

Free market capitalism isn't a beast to be fed. It is simply free people making decisions and choices based on their wants, needs and desires... coupled with entrepreneurs who provide for those needs, wants and desires and a mutual transaction between the parties. When left alone, it generally works. The problems arise when someone comes along and begins to tinker with the system by introducing socialized tweaks in a supposed "good faith" effort to make it better.

But here's the analogy... it's like you have a very pristine fresh water aquarium and you decide that you want to have some salt water fish as well... so you set aside one corner of the aquarium and introduce salt water fish and salt water into the system... you've not accomplished what you wanted to... you've ruined the system forever. It's no longer a fresh water system and it can't be a salt water system. When you try to mix free market capitalism with socialism, you get socialist-capitalism, which is corporatism... it breeds corruption and doesn't work.

What you get is what we have, and Sweden has better, a Mixed economy.

No, Sweden is a socialist system with limited capitalism. It works there because of a low population which helps to mitigate fraud and corruption. You can't have a "mixed system" with free market capitalism and socialism. See my previous posts for an explanation. Socialism destroys the "free market" aspects of the system and you have socialist-capitalism or corporatism.

 

[Slade3200]

Perhaps both beasts were feeding eachother, however, I don't think

Free market capitalism isn't a beast to be fed. It is simply free people making decisions and choices based on their wants, needs and desires... coupled with entrepreneurs who provide for those needs, wants and desires and a mutual transaction between the parties. When left alone, it generally works. The problems arise when someone comes along and begins to tinker with the system by introducing socialized tweaks in a supposed "good faith" effort to make it better.

But here's the analogy... it's like you have a very pristine fresh water aquarium and you decide that you want to have some salt water fish as well... so you set aside one corner of the aquarium and introduce salt water fish and salt water into the system... you've not accomplished what you wanted to... you've ruined the system forever. It's no longer a fresh water system and it can't be a salt water system. When you try to mix free market capitalism with socialism, you get socialist-capitalism, which is corporatism... it breeds corruption and doesn't work.

Free market capitalism is a survival of the fittest situation and without regulation it results in corruption and abuse, wild wild west style. The rich and powerful grow stronger and are capable of effecting the livelihood of the masses. A more accurate fish analogy would be Free Market being one large tank with every species of fish... The stronger and larger fish just end up eating the smaller... In the end you are left with all sharks. By introducing regulatory systems into the aquarium, building separate tanks that include fish that can live peacefully with each other, providing appropriate environments for each tank to thrive, this will make for a more successful aquarium.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Socialism is so great, how come you never read about American Progressives hopping an inner tube to from Miami to Fidel?

That's communism.

Distinction without a difference

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If Socialism is so great, how come you never read about American Progressives hopping an inner tube to from Miami to Fidel?

That's communism.

Distinction without a difference

Very different...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Perhaps both beasts were feeding eachother, however, I don't think

Free market capitalism isn't a beast to be fed. It is simply free people making decisions and choices based on their wants, needs and desires... coupled with entrepreneurs who provide for those needs, wants and desires and a mutual transaction between the parties. When left alone, it generally works. The problems arise when someone comes along and begins to tinker with the system by introducing socialized tweaks in a supposed "good faith" effort to make it better.

But here's the analogy... it's like you have a very pristine fresh water aquarium and you decide that you want to have some salt water fish as well... so you set aside one corner of the aquarium and introduce salt water fish and salt water into the system... you've not accomplished what you wanted to... you've ruined the system forever. It's no longer a fresh water system and it can't be a salt water system. When you try to mix free market capitalism with socialism, you get socialist-capitalism, which is corporatism... it breeds corruption and doesn't work.

What you get is what we have, and Sweden has better, a Mixed economy.

No, Sweden is a socialist system with limited capitalism. It works there because of a low population which helps to mitigate fraud and corruption. You can't have a "mixed system" with free market capitalism and socialism. See my previous posts for an explanation. Socialism destroys the "free market" aspects of the system and you have socialist-capitalism or corporatism.

Learn what a mixed economy is...

 

[regent]

If Socialism is so great, how come you never read about American Progressives hopping an inner tube to from Miami to Fidel?

That's communism.

Distinction without a difference

I think most people with a semblance of an education know that socialism is not communism. Of the fifteen or so types of socialism only one, a creation of Marx, scientific socialism, was tried by the USSR and dropped like a bad habit, it didn't work. After a few more years the USSR dropped Marx and his communism, it didn't work either. The USSR practiced its own thing and called it communism.
Don't take my word for it, however, do some scholarly homework.