Why Socialism Will Make a Comeback, and How the GOP Can Successfully Respond

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Sep 25, 2011
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Most Republicans are being dismissive toward Bernie Sanders and they are making a huge mistake. As the time for new industries to capitalize gets shorter and shorter, what once had kept our economy revving with new technologies and new jobs every few years, We now see new products launched and third party tools to use them by the end of the year and everything fairly maxed out in two.

Take gun powder tech and smart phones for example, gun tech came to Europe around the 13th century and they used them to make immobile bombards at a high cost that only kings could afford. By the American Revolution nearly 500 years later most local black smiths could make a highly accurate shoulder fired rifle. The monopoly tech of the Royal Mint had matured to the point that any blacksmith could also make gun powder weapons. Mail systems, railroads, mass communications and computers have had similar cycles, each getting shorter with the progression of time. this was the rate of capitalization, where the invested capital into new ways of making the tech in question grew more and more advanced until the labor and means to employ that technology became ubiquitous.

People could get into these new technologies and enjoy the extra pay and demand from working in those new technology professions, but the period of time this maturity for the tech grew less as the tech matured faster with newer and newer tech capitalization. Smart phones weren't introduced that long ago and already there are layoffs by new companies that were making big bucks off selling software for Androids. Within two years smart phones reached a maturity it took gun powder nearly 5 centuries to reach.

For the first time since 1932, a great number of Americans feel like there are shrinking options and opportunities in our economy as the capitalization rate becomes almost a completely capitalized and automated. Back in 1932, much of the problem with the Great Depressions impact on American working class families was due to a lack of support systems and so-called 'safety nets' for urban workers that people had had almost for free in rural areas. There the local farmers had their churches and townsmen who would help out if the farmer got sick or a barn had to be rebuilt due to a fire, etc. But there was nothing like that in city life. Some had the luxury of extended family, an Uncle Ted that might let you move to his farm and work for room and board till you got back on your feet. But if you had a family it wasn't that simple.

Life was hard then for people. Coca Cola had become a popular pharmacy soda fountain drink because it put energy into a population that was constantly fighting malnutrition and low energy. Back then if a doctor put you on a diet, people assumed it was to GAIN weight, not to lose it. The impact of FDRs New Deal and of the Democratic and Eisenhower administrations was so effective that we now over eat far more often than are malnourished.

We are coming full circle back to another evolution of our economy such that people are intimidated by a very uncertain future, of less opportunity, lower paying jobs and far fewer jobs as tech reaches a so-called 'technical singularity' that will make most white collar professions outdated. How will the nation find security, stability and prosperity in that new economic environment?

The economy of 2050 I think will be one of micro-self sufficiency. People will make their own products with nano-manufacturing and 3D printing. They will supply themselves with their own energy through Solar Panels and nano-fusion. They will self organize into cells of production and consumption around church labor co-ops that barter labor for their members outside the purview of the IRS. They will negotiate for barter with neighbors and more distant cells of production over the internet and be their own Wallmart. They will build their own homes with large 3D printers, and assemble their own 3D printed vehicles that run on solar panels and high tech nano-batteries. As the economy loses jobs, the old cash based economy of our time and the Modern age will be replaced by this new localized barter cashless economy.

This will hurt Federal revenues enormously, and there will be a misguided attempt to tax the bartering and to punish those who are not using cash. But as the Colorado pot selling has demonstrated, the feds can only enforce what the local PDs are willing to aid them in.

But also there will be an attempt to use legislation to slow the tech progress and limit all product designs with patents and copyrights that will fail as many capable people will design open source items and donate them to the public for free.

In 2050 I think we all will have the time and freedom to enjoy our lives of leisure and independence much like many of our ancestors did once the farmsteads were developed. People will eventually come to prefer their barter lifestyle, I think, to the old crush of commuting to a job in a hostile work environment that might or might not be there tomorrow.

But bridging over from todays job dependent lifestyle to the independence of tomorrow is going to be a rough journey. The sirens song of socialism will appeal to enough people that some laws are passed to help American workers find jobs and keep them for a semblance of a traditional career. But the need for social services and welfare will grow and those comfortably independent will try to ride the welfare services when they wont really need it so much, so the needs assessment will have to shift from a cash earnings basis to an asset based evaluation of need. There are so many other things that need to be done as well, but I want to get to what the GOP needs to do to respond and this post is too long already.

The GOP needs to limit immigration, especially illegal immigration and wipe out black market labor. Black market labor will be a huge drain on the cash economy as local citizens who are independent will be able to work for what illegals would only be able to afford. The independents will be able to afford it because they will be working for spending cash, not to pay for their whole lifestyle. This will cause a large drain on government revenues if not curtailed quickly.

The GOP needs to be viewed as empathetic to those who cannot find work. It will no longer be the case that those who cant find work are just lazy losers. Many today already cant find work despite graduating with honors and a lengthy resume with awards from past employers. The GOP needs to help people find jobs and have some assistance till they can. Helping people to shift to self owned businesses centered on internet sales would a huge boon to the working American desperately seeking means to an income.

The GOP needs to spur the adaptation of the new independent technologies that will help people to stretch their incomes. Limit corporate patent rights and copyrights. Enforce narrow patent guidelines and make the use of harassing legal suits a penalizing affair for the loser. No more patents for mouse clicks or the wheel any more.

The Democrats will be offering government programs and that will help in the short run. But as government revenues decline unrelentingly, the GOP needs to be the leading force for new ways of handling unfriendly economic transition.
 
People thought we had reached the technology peak many times over the past 100 years.

That's why it's called "innovation". Because no one has thought of it before.


Socialism can't make a "comeback". It's never succeeded anywhere on its own. The ONLY reason European socialism "works" is because they have almost no defense costs...because America protects them. If not....they'd spend on defense. Otherwise....Russia or China or Germany...or someone...would conquer them. Happens throughout history.
 
People thought we had reached the technology peak many times over the past 100 years.

That's why it's called "innovation". Because no one has thought of it before.


Socialism can't make a "comeback". It's never succeeded anywhere on its own. The ONLY reason European socialism "works" is because they have almost no defense costs...because America protects them. If not....they'd spend on defense. Otherwise....Russia or China or Germany...or someone...would conquer them. Happens throughout history.


Make up your mind. You just said European socialism works, but you also said it can't work. Which is it?
 
People thought we had reached the technology peak many times over the past 100 years.

That's why it's called "innovation". Because no one has thought of it before.


Socialism can't make a "comeback". It's never succeeded anywhere on its own. The ONLY reason European socialism "works" is because they have almost no defense costs...because America protects them. If not....they'd spend on defense. Otherwise....Russia or China or Germany...or someone...would conquer them. Happens throughout history.
Make up your mind. You just said European socialism works, but you also said it can't work. Which is it?
Read what he said a little more carefully.
 
People thought we had reached the technology peak many times over the past 100 years.

That's why it's called "innovation". Because no one has thought of it before.

Wasn't speaking of a technology peak, but of a technology maturation that is so fast that it quickly moves into full automation and thus near 100% capitalization, meaning jobs/wages are low, few and short.

This will destabilize our economy and make socialism return to popularity.

Socialism can't make a "comeback". It's never succeeded anywhere on its own.

It has been successful as a political movement, of that there can be no doubt, and that popularity will return.

I think the obamy experience has shown that few if any really care if Democrat policies actually work; they just want to feel better about life.
 
Socialism is definitely frowned upon by many people. It is repulsive. It's a reverse oppression.

Depending on the particular form, yes, but 'socialism lite' like the Fabian style of socialism has been very paternal and popular from WW1 to about the Vietnam War.
 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...tudent-debt-broke-birthdeath-adjustment-model


"The is a big problem with this core assumption, which has follow through effects not only for domestic fiscal policy, but also monetary policy (and explains why despite a 5.1% unemployment, there is zero wage growth, thus keeping the Fed pushing the ZIRP accelerator pedal years later), for the simple reason that as of this moment it is dead wrong."

"Here is what Gallup CEO, Jim Clifton, wrote several months ago looking at the trends in new business creation and destruction in the US."
"We are behind in starting new firms per capita, and this is our single most serious economic problem. Yet it seems like a secret. You never see it mentioned in the media, nor hear from a politician that, for the first time in 35 years, American business deaths now outnumber business births. "

"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that the total number of new business startups and business closures per year -- the birth and death rates of American companies -- have crossed for the first time since the measurement began. I am referring to employer businesses, those with one or more employees, the real engines of economic growth. Four hundred thousand new businesses are being born annually nationwide, while 470,000 per year are dying."

"As Clifton adds "you may not have seen this graph before" and for good reason: it destroys the most sacred assumptions held by the BLS' cubicled actuaries and various tenured economists locked up in their ivory towers: namely that the number of US business startups outnumbers the number of failures. This is no longer true!"
 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-15/3-things-fed-screwed


"The LMCI Index Says The Fed Is Late Again

In May of 2014, the Federal Reserve began discussing a newly designed labor market index to help support their claim that employment conditions in the U.S were improving. This was an important facility for the Fed which needed support to raise interest rates. My good friend Doug Short has a complete discussion on the LMCI, which is worth reading for context. As he defines:"

"The Labor Market Conditions Index (LMCI) is a relatively recent indicator developed by Federal Reserve economists to assess changes in the labor market conditions. It is a dynamic factor model of labor market indicators, essentially a diffusion index subject to extensive revisions based on nineteen underlying indicators in nine broad categories. "

"The indicator, designed to illustrate expansion and contraction of labor market conditions, was initially announced in May 2014, but the data series was constructed back to August 1976."

"Unfortunately for the Federal Reserve, the index has not supported the Fed's claims that employment is growing at a rate strong enough to withstand a tightening of monetary policy. In fact, as shown in the chart below, the LMCI index (smoothed with a 12-month average) has been a leading indicator of future weakness in employment. The recent downturn in the LMCI suggests that employment gains may more muted in the months ahead."
 
"The Fed has now kept interest rates at zero for 81 months."

"This is the longest period in the history of the Fed’s existence, lasting longer than even the 1938-1942 period of ZIRP."

"And the US economy is moving back into recession. Consider that…

"1) Industrial production fell five months straight in the first half of 2015. This has never happened outside of a recession.
2) Merchant Wholesalers’ Sales are in recession territory.
3) The Empire Manufacturing Survey is in recession territory.
4) All four of the Fed’s September Purchasing Manager Index (PMI) readings (Philadelphia, New York, Richmond, and Kansas City) came in at readings of sub-zero. This usually happens when you are already 4-5 months into a recession. (H/T Bill Hester)"

"Why do these issues matter?"

"Because they are happening at a time when interest rates are already at zero."


The US is Back in Recession With Interest Rates Already at Zero | Zero Hedge
 
People thought we had reached the technology peak many times over the past 100 years.

That's why it's called "innovation". Because no one has thought of it before.


Socialism can't make a "comeback". It's never succeeded anywhere on its own. The ONLY reason European socialism "works" is because they have almost no defense costs...because America protects them. If not....they'd spend on defense. Otherwise....Russia or China or Germany...or someone...would conquer them. Happens throughout history.


Make up your mind. You just said European socialism works, but you also said it can't work. Which is it?

You're too retarded if you can't grasp it.

It won't work here. It's failed everywhere. It "works" (see the quote marks...that's to indicate there's more to the story)...in some places in Europe because they barely have to fund a military. We protect Europe and have since WW2.

SO it won't work here. Unless we slash defense to nearly nothing. But then...who protects us???

Human nature is greed and tribalism. If you deny that...then you are still a retard. We take sides and desire more than we have. Always have. Always will.

Capitalism is the economic principle that can coexist with human nature. It has less built in resistance points to human nature.

Socialism at its core uses an armed governing body that is tasked with forcing society to live in contrast to its human nature. It's why Greece and the EU are crumbling.

If America never entered WW2....Russia or Germany would've conquered Europe. Because those nations didnt...and still dont....fund large defense. That's the tribalism problem. Socialism can't fund both a powerful military and entitlements for all.....UNLESS it's an all powerful communist regime like the Soviets...who had the military...and socialist society where everyone got their entitlements...they just didn't amount to much.




The cold truth is not everyone gets to live a nice wonderful life. Humans will suffer. Some will never know happiness. But capitalism allows more of those people to rise above it...AND bases that on one's own work ethic and talent.

Socialism? They try to end all suffering by bringing everyone else down to an equally humble existence. If that's what you want...then fine...it will "work".
 
It won't work here. It's failed everywhere. It "works" (see the quote marks...that's to indicate there's more to the story)...in some places in Europe because they barely have to fund a military. We protect Europe and have since WW2.

SO it won't work here. Unless we slash defense to nearly nothing. But then...who protects us???

Europe is freeloading, but then we want that for the most part so our defense contractors can make more money and create more jobs.

Human nature is greed and tribalism. If you deny that...then you are still a retard. We take sides and desire more than we have. Always have. Always will.

While most of us just barely have enough to get by.

Capitalism is the economic principle that can coexist with human nature. It has less built in resistance points to human nature.

Capitalism is the engine, but even the best designed engines need regulators, gears, etc. A well regulated economy is the best, IMO, because it allows those participating to have more confidence. What we have now is market exploitation by the market makers themselves.

Socialism at its core uses an armed governing body that is tasked with forcing society to live in contrast to its human nature. It's why Greece and the EU are crumbling.

So you think Eisenhower was no different than Mao? You seem to be using a single model of socialism. Are you saying this is also true of even the mildest hybrids of socialism lite and capitalism lite?

If America never entered WW2....Russia or Germany would've conquered Europe. Because those nations didnt...and still dont....fund large defense. That's the tribalism problem. Socialism can't fund both a powerful military and entitlements for all.....UNLESS it's an all powerful communist regime like the Soviets...who had the military...and socialist society where everyone got their entitlements...they just didn't amount to much.

Agreed. We shouldnt do that again.


The cold truth is not everyone gets to live a nice wonderful life. Humans will suffer. Some will never know happiness. But capitalism allows more of those people to rise above it...AND bases that on one's own work ethic and talent.

Very fatalistic. Would you say that about a family member? A fellow church members? One of your own children?

Socialism? They try to end all suffering by bringing everyone else down to an equally humble existence. If that's what you want...then fine...it will "work".

Have you ever read the Soup Stone?
 

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