Why "Moderates" can kiss my ass

[Middleoftheroad]

I agree with you that moderates do have conviction in this country. Our country has going steadily for the last 100 years towards left wing totalitarianism, clearly the "moderate" is left. They want the same things the left want, they just want to slow it down. Even right of center Republicans support preserving and expanding welfare programs like Social Security. The moderates just say slow down a bit to the left and then think to themselves how they're "reasonable." But when you're on a railroad track only changing your speed, you will at some point arrive in the same station.

simply put, wrong.
Speaking as a moderate, my personal beliefs is that the government should keep spending at around 18-20%. This is not a temporary view, it is a long term view that I have always had. This basically means that the government can't get any bigger then it already is.

Right now we're at 25% on a cash basis. With unfunded liabilities it's far higher then that and has been for a long time and we're printing money like crazy which isn't counted either and should be. Unfunded liabilities and printing money are the primary ways the left has continually moved us to the left with socialist dependency programs like Social Security and Medicare. They commit us to socialism and the moderates are silent because cash expenditures don't sound as high as what we've committed ourselves to. Then one day the actual bills come...and it's too late...

A moderate who practiced what you preach would be hysterical right now and think the tea party's not going far enough because we are way, way past 18-20% in real spending and it's going up not down.

I dunno if I would say "hysterical". Does it need to be cut down? Obviously. And I think they made a lot of progress towards during the debt ceiling debate, I think the final numbers were 2.4T over ten years or on average of 240B a year.
But the main problem I see with the deficit is the economy. That is what they should be focusing on, creating jobs. I think I read that the 99 week unemployment was costing the government roughly 160B dollars a year, if you put people back to work that number will go down, thats the best way of cutting a deficit, because it increases revenues (without increasing taxes) and it decreases spending (without cutting benefits). And once unemployment numbers start going down significantly the dems wont be able to keep that 99 weeks going, and it will have to go back to 26 weeks.

 

[Toro]

I agree with you that moderates do have conviction in this country. Our country has going steadily for the last 100 years towards left wing totalitarianism, clearly the "moderate" is left. They want the same things the left want, they just want to slow it down. Even right of center Republicans support preserving and expanding welfare programs like Social Security. The moderates just say slow down a bit to the left and then think to themselves how they're "reasonable." But when you're on a railroad track only changing your speed, you will at some point arrive in the same station.

simply put, wrong.
Speaking as a moderate, my personal beliefs is that the government should keep spending at around 18-20%. This is not a temporary view, it is a long term view that I have always had. This basically means that the government can't get any bigger then it already is.

Right now we're at 25% on a cash basis. With unfunded liabilities it's far higher then that and has been for a long time and we're printing money like crazy which isn't counted either and should be. Unfunded liabilities and printing money are the primary ways the left has continually moved us to the left with socialist dependency programs like Social Security and Medicare. They commit us to socialism and the moderates are silent because cash expenditures don't sound as high as what we've committed ourselves to. Then one day the actual bills come...and it's too late...

A moderate who practiced what you preach would be hysterical right now and think the tea party's not going far enough because we are way, way past 18-20% in real spending and it's going up not down.

We certainly have to get our unfunded liabilities under control, which means reducing benefits. And as much I would rather see less government spending than more, the reason why government spending is so high relative to GDP is because we are growing well below trend and have 9% unemployment. The automatic stabilizers in the economy are what is causing the high relative spending.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

"Moderate" is just code for "I'm a real pussy and wont take a stand on anything and will always try having it both ways. I also believe i'm so much smarter than the rest and just want to be liked." Moderates are frauds.

 

[IndependntLogic]

"Moderate" is just code for "I'm a real pussy and wont take a stand on anything and will always try having it both ways. I also believe i'm so much smarter than the rest and just want to be liked." Moderates are frauds.

LOL! What a blithering idiot whackjob! (this would be that "just want to be liked" thing").

Moderates are people who want change, they just don't want the same change you do - or to the same degree. Their opinions are formed by FOX, MSNBC or Ron Paul. They feel very strongly about a variety of things but they don't fit neatly into the Little Libertarians Who Lunch Club. Whereas, I can prove the strong convictions of Independents and Moderates on a variety of issues, you spew bullshit with no basis in fact, because you've been told this is so. Therefore, you do what mankind always does to that which he fears: you attack.
So look here sheeple, just because you get every single thought fed to you from a cute little pamphlet, doesn't mean you are stronger or braver, it just means that you don't even realize you are more easily led.
Gee, I hope I'm still liked! Cuz you know, that's what Moderates go for...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

"Moderate" is just code for "I'm a real pussy and wont take a stand on anything and will always try having it both ways. I also believe i'm so much smarter than the rest and just want to be liked." Moderates are frauds.

LOL! What a blithering idiot whackjob! (this would be that "just want to be liked" thing").

Moderates are people who want change, they just don't want the same change you do - or to the same degree. Their opinions are formed by FOX, MSNBC or Ron Paul. They feel very strongly about a variety of things but they don't fit neatly into the Little Libertarians Who Lunch Club. Whereas, I can prove the strong convictions of Independents and Moderates on a variety of issues, you spew bullshit with no basis in fact, because you've been told this is so. Therefore, you do what mankind always does to that which he fears: you attack.
So look here sheeple, just because you get every single thought fed to you from a cute little pamphlet, doesn't mean you are stronger or braver, it just means that you don't even realize you are more easily led.
Gee, I hope I'm still liked! Cuz you know, that's what Moderates go for...

Yup you just go ahead and keep telling yourself that. Moderates are frauds. Period,end of story.

 

[Full-Auto]

"Moderate" is just code for "I'm a real pussy and wont take a stand on anything and will always try having it both ways. I also believe i'm so much smarter than the rest and just want to be liked." Moderates are frauds.

LOL! What a blithering idiot whackjob! (this would be that "just want to be liked" thing").

Moderates are people who want change, they just don't want the same change you do - or to the same degree. Their opinions are formed by FOX, MSNBC or Ron Paul. They feel very strongly about a variety of things but they don't fit neatly into the Little Libertarians Who Lunch Club. Whereas, I can prove the strong convictions of Independents and Moderates on a variety of issues, you spew bullshit with no basis in fact, because you've been told this is so. Therefore, you do what mankind always does to that which he fears: you attack.
So look here sheeple, just because you get every single thought fed to you from a cute little pamphlet, doesn't mean you are stronger or braver, it just means that you don't even realize you are more easily led.
Gee, I hope I'm still liked! Cuz you know, that's what Moderates go for...

Yup you just go ahead and keep telling yourself that. Moderates are frauds. Period,end of story.

I strongly disagree. By simple definition means they are in the middle and dont get worked into a frenzy. They as a rule dont look for offense in every word either.

 

[Patrick2]

My assertion remains unrefuted, and for most the "moderates" posting here, not even confronted - the political positions of "moderates" are an unprincipled grab-bag of ideas that are frequently incoherent, inconsistent, and even irrational, and their use of the word "extreme" and it's variants is a defamatory term of art for the less stupid ones, and simply an idiocy for the more dumb ones.

Well Patrick, either one of two things is true:

1. That's just as stupid as anything that's ever been posted and complete bullshit or
2. You can cite examples where Moderates and Independents have changed their opinions based on "the shifting of the wind" and that other driblle you spew.

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

 

[IndependntLogic]

"Moderate" is just code for "I'm a real pussy and wont take a stand on anything and will always try having it both ways. I also believe i'm so much smarter than the rest and just want to be liked." Moderates are frauds.

LOL! What a blithering idiot whackjob! (this would be that "just want to be liked" thing").

Moderates are people who want change, they just don't want the same change you do - or to the same degree. Their opinions are formed by FOX, MSNBC or Ron Paul. They feel very strongly about a variety of things but they don't fit neatly into the Little Libertarians Who Lunch Club. Whereas, I can prove the strong convictions of Independents and Moderates on a variety of issues, you spew bullshit with no basis in fact, because you've been told this is so. Therefore, you do what mankind always does to that which he fears: you attack.
So look here sheeple, just because you get every single thought fed to you from a cute little pamphlet, doesn't mean you are stronger or braver, it just means that you don't even realize you are more easily led.
Gee, I hope I'm still liked! Cuz you know, that's what Moderates go for...

Yup you just go ahead and keep telling yourself that. Moderates are frauds. Period,end of story.

Ah, the intellect of whackjobs. Okay. I'm an Independent. Do you consider that the same as a Moderate? (quick! Run away! it's a trap! Dodge, insult, run - do what you always do!).

 

[Patrick2]

I guess we just have to accept your point of view (incorrect as it is) that moderates cannot be consistent or principled without any proof, just your own ascertains.

Is that really your stance?

Immie

The only way the position of a "moderate" can be principled is if he makes the (somewhat logically dgenerate) claim that "my only principle is that my political positions should be moderate".

this is simply because you don't know what it means to be a moderate, you are using your own personal definition of a moderate, which includes many fallacies.

I am using what is effectively the self-definition of moderates from many of their own statements - if you have a novel one, let's hear it.

 

[IndependntLogic]

The only way the position of a "moderate" can be principled is if he makes the (somewhat logically dgenerate) claim that "my only principle is that my political positions should be moderate".

this is simply because you don't know what it means to be a moderate, you are using your own personal definition of a moderate, which includes many fallacies.

I am using what is effectively the self-definition of moderates from many of their own statements - if you have a novel one, let's hear it.

I still disagree with you but don't believe I've been fair in that, to your post, I haven't offered you the chance to clarify something. Would you say a Moderate and an Independent are the same thing?

 

[ABikerSailor]

The RINOs are still the GOP establishment, dumbass.

I thought they were called Republicans In Name Only because they acted like liberals, but still kept their GOP affiliations.

Now........if they're going against the basic dogma of your party, how the fuck can they still be the GOP establishment?

Leftwingers need to read up. Conservatives laugh every time some obamabot calls the republican party "the right". There are ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES "REPUBLICAN", from people hardly distinguishable from leftwingers to the very few rightwing. To give you half a damn clue: for many decades, the party has been split between "rockefellar republicans" (ie RINOs) and conservatives. The RINOs generally operate to serve corporate interests, but otherwise sign up for almost all of the liberal/left agenda. This is the same reason corporations have become lap kitties of the left - they want to focus on making money, and have made a pact with the devil leftwing that they can continue to do so as long as they support all the leftwing social issues, which they do. In the latest era, the RINOs gained control of the GOP after Reagan left in 1988, and have held power ever since then, although now they have a handful of freshmen representatives, the Tea Party, who will no longer toe the RINO line.

All teabaggers act in accordance with corporate interests. Are you saying teabaggers are RINO's as well?

 

[Patrick2]

I thought they were called Republicans In Name Only because they acted like liberals, but still kept their GOP affiliations.

Now........if they're going against the basic dogma of your party, how the fuck can they still be the GOP establishment?

Leftwingers need to read up. Conservatives laugh every time some obamabot calls the republican party "the right". There are ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES "REPUBLICAN", from people hardly distinguishable from leftwingers to the very few rightwing. To give you half a damn clue: for many decades, the party has been split between "rockefellar republicans" (ie RINOs) and conservatives. The RINOs generally operate to serve corporate interests, but otherwise sign up for almost all of the liberal/left agenda. This is the same reason corporations have become lap kitties of the left - they want to focus on making money, and have made a pact with the devil leftwing that they can continue to do so as long as they support all the leftwing social issues, which they do. In the latest era, the RINOs gained control of the GOP after Reagan left in 1988, and have held power ever since then, although now they have a handful of freshmen representatives, the Tea Party, who will no longer toe the RINO line.

All teabaggers act in accordance with corporate interests. Are you saying teabaggers are RINO's as well?

The identification of the Tea Party with corporations, the lap kitties of the leftwing, qualifies that as

DUMBASS POST O' THE DAY!!!​

CONGRATULATIONS!!

 

[HUGGY]

Rather than addressing these annoying fuckers one at a time, let me make a blanket statement: If you're a political "Moderate" in 2011, you're either lying or a fucking moron.

The Government has control over every aspect of your life including your health, Social Security is totally broke, Congress shamelessly racks up annual trillion deficits like it was nothing and even though they did it for the wrong reasons, S&P Downgraded our credit.

If you can face that and say "Gee, I dunno if that's bad" you're either a Jake Starkey lying liberal or a moron.

There is no third option

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_4AxzvhCPY]Baby T-Pain... (funny) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[IndependntLogic]

Leftwingers need to read up. Conservatives laugh every time some obamabot calls the republican party "the right". There are ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES "REPUBLICAN", from people hardly distinguishable from leftwingers to the very few rightwing. To give you half a damn clue: for many decades, the party has been split between "rockefellar republicans" (ie RINOs) and conservatives. The RINOs generally operate to serve corporate interests, but otherwise sign up for almost all of the liberal/left agenda. This is the same reason corporations have become lap kitties of the left - they want to focus on making money, and have made a pact with the devil leftwing that they can continue to do so as long as they support all the leftwing social issues, which they do. In the latest era, the RINOs gained control of the GOP after Reagan left in 1988, and have held power ever since then, although now they have a handful of freshmen representatives, the Tea Party, who will no longer toe the RINO line.

All teabaggers act in accordance with corporate interests. Are you saying teabaggers are RINO's as well?

The identification of the Tea Party with corporations, the lap kitties of the leftwing, qualifies that as

:

So for the 3rd time, do you think Moderates and Independents are the same thing?

 

[Immanuel]

My assertion remains unrefuted, and for most the "moderates" posting here, not even confronted - the political positions of "moderates" are an unprincipled grab-bag of ideas that are frequently incoherent, inconsistent, and even irrational, and their use of the word "extreme" and it's variants is a defamatory term of art for the less stupid ones, and simply an idiocy for the more dumb ones.

Well Patrick, either one of two things is true:

1. That's just as stupid as anything that's ever been posted and complete bullshit or
2. You can cite examples where Moderates and Independents have changed their opinions based on "the shifting of the wind" and that other driblle you spew.

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

Only in your own mind.

Immie

 

[Montrovant]

My assertion remains unrefuted, and for most the "moderates" posting here, not even confronted - the political positions of "moderates" are an unprincipled grab-bag of ideas that are frequently incoherent, inconsistent, and even irrational, and their use of the word "extreme" and it's variants is a defamatory term of art for the less stupid ones, and simply an idiocy for the more dumb ones.

Well Patrick, either one of two things is true:

1. That's just as stupid as anything that's ever been posted and complete bullshit or
2. You can cite examples where Moderates and Independents have changed their opinions based on "the shifting of the wind" and that other driblle you spew.

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

I still don't understand why your definition of moderate is someone who's political views are based on trying to be in the center. Why can a person not have views which just happen to fall in that center area, rather than form their views to fit there?

And let's not forget that the very idea there can only be 2 sides to anything in politics is fairly ridiculous and, IMO, simply used to keep up the Dem vs Rep paradigm.

 

[Patrick2]

Well Patrick, either one of two things is true:

1. That's just as stupid as anything that's ever been posted and complete bullshit or
2. You can cite examples where Moderates and Independents have changed their opinions based on "the shifting of the wind" and that other driblle you spew.

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

I still don't understand why your definition of moderate is someone who's political views are based on trying to be in the center. Why can a person not have views which just happen to fall in that center area, rather than form their views to fit there?

And let's not forget that the very idea there can only be 2 sides to anything in politics is fairly ridiculous and, IMO, simply used to keep up the Dem vs Rep paradigm.

Skip the strawmen please, I made no such assertion.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Well Patrick, either one of two things is true:

1. That's just as stupid as anything that's ever been posted and complete bullshit or
2. You can cite examples where Moderates and Independents have changed their opinions based on "the shifting of the wind" and that other driblle you spew.

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

I still don't understand why your definition of moderate is someone who's political views are based on trying to be in the center. Why can a person not have views which just happen to fall in that center area, rather than form their views to fit there?

And let's not forget that the very idea there can only be 2 sides to anything in politics is fairly ridiculous and, IMO, simply used to keep up the Dem vs Rep paradigm.

He suffers from "Whackjobbery". Symptoms:
1. Dodging facts or Questions with insults, change of subject or moral comparatives.
2. Label anyone disagreeing with you on any subject or candidate.
3. Project opinions, views and just plain lies onto anyone disagreeing with you.
4. Cut & Run.

So in this case, because you do not agree with a whackjob, THEY will tell you what YOU are, who you are, what you think etc.... Reality really doesn't matter to them.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Uh, nooooooooo - you are too stupid to realize that that is not necessary. From "moderates" own statements, I have shown in detail above that their basic self-definition is a self-contradiction, if only from the fact that it depends on the positions of "extremists", the self same people they oppose.

I still don't understand why your definition of moderate is someone who's political views are based on trying to be in the center. Why can a person not have views which just happen to fall in that center area, rather than form their views to fit there?

And let's not forget that the very idea there can only be 2 sides to anything in politics is fairly ridiculous and, IMO, simply used to keep up the Dem vs Rep paradigm.

Skip the strawmen please, I made no such assertion.

Reeeeally? YOu never made an assertion that would contradict the bold above?

 

[edthecynic]

Who would have guessed it, politics is a Gemini!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmgDuo9TOxo"]The Animals - Gemini - YouTube[/ame]