Why Jesus Cried "My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me"

[Care4all]

I believe that for the first time in all time, the MESSIAH was momentarily separated from HIS FATHER. It must have been horrific.

Maybe???? In the sense that Jesus was both man and a manifest of God.... This was His human reaction, prophesied in Psalm 22...??? I dunno?

 

[DudleySmith]

Second, I've a faint memory of getting that feeling or notion that the Bible does or can give reason to think the levels of Heaven and sort of a reward system does exist....

Like,

My father's house has many rooms...

And the catholic teaching of purgatory lends itself to the same kind of theory...the more faithful or maybe it was righteous, go directly to heaven kind of thing while those who had some issues may spend time contemplating their short comings before moving onward to heaven... So more than just heaven and hell



But let me also say, it seems this kind of thinking, is very "human like"....

What I mean is....it just seems so man like to want to be thought of as...better than the other guy and getting a deserving and just reward for it.... Because we as humans, expect it, it satisfies a human need...

It just does not seem like God is that petty.... Not if He loves us all?? And gave up his Son for the sins of all?

It's satisfying to me, as a human...it seems fair and just, here on Earth....

But do we really bring those feelings of ' lookie,
Lookie at me, I made it to a higher level of Heaven, than thee'.... to Heaven with us??

The idea of a 'hierarchy' in Heaven seems to be a later invention of Christology, but in the texts themselves it appears more like a division of labor than anything to do with status.

Angels in Christianity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Christianity, angels are the agents of God, based on angels in Judaism.[1] Various works of Christian theology have devised hierarchies of angelic beings. The most influential Christian angelic hierarchy was that put forward around the turn of the 6th century AD by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite in his work De Coelesti Hierarchia (On the Celestial Hierarchy). He claimed to be an important figure who was converted by Paul the Apostle, who authored most of the New Testament, and his work enjoyed greater influence than it would have if he had used his actual name, until Erasmus publicised doubts about the age of the work in the early 16th century.[2]

Angels are organized into several orders, or "Angelic Choirs".[3][4]

As referred to in the theological doctrine of the communion of saints, in paradise there is a common and unique vision of the truth and contemplation of the face of God, without any kind of difference between angels or human souls. The Summa theologiae states that there exists different degree in respect of the creation, about the power of intercession to God and of direct entrustment in the human lives.

Indications in Genesis are that people will inhabit a 'New Earth'. One perspective is this one.

What will we be doing in heaven? | Spirit & Truth

In the future Kingdom there will be different positions and responsibilities. At the Judgment, each person will “receive what is due him for the things...

www.truthortradition.com

God gave Adam and Eve authority and responsibility in the Garden of Eden. He gave them work to do. It should, therefore, be no surprise that various types of work will be part of life on the new earth. The types or work mentioned below are almost always found in the context of the Millennial Kingdom, not the Everlasting Kingdom. Some types of work, like “gravediggers,” could not be available in the Everlasting Kingdom because there will be no death. Likewise, because there will not be a temple in the Everlasting Kingdom, all the duties associated with the Temple will be eliminated. Some types of work are clearly stated, while others are only implied. Those that are clearly stated include:


1) Administration and rulership. Isa. 1:26; 32:1; Jer. 3:15; 23:4; Ezek. 44:24; Matt. 19:28; 1 Cor. 6:2 and 3; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26 and 27.
2) Builders. Isa. 54:12; 60:10; 61:4; Jer. 30:18; Ezek. 36:10 and 33; Amos 9:14.
3) Cleanup duties. Isa. 9:5; Ezek. 39:14 and 15.
4) Farmers. Isa. 30:23 and 24; 32:20; 61:5; 62:9; Jer. 31:5 and 12; Ezek. 36:9 and 34; 47:12; 48:19; Amos 9:13.
5) Fishermen. Ezek. 47:10.
6) Gravediggers. Ezek. 39:14 and 15.
7) Herdsmen. Isa. 30:23 and 24; 60:6 and 7; 61:5; Jer. 31:12.
8) Landscapers. Isa. 60:13.
9) Metalworkers. Isa. 2:4; 60:17; Micah 4:3.
10) Servants. Isa. 14:2.
11) Temple duties for those Levites who were not pure-hearted. Ezek. 44:10–14.
12) Temple duties for those Levites who stayed faithful. Ezek. 44:15 and 16.
13) Vinedressers. Isa. 25:6; 62:9; Jer. 31:12; Amos 9:13.
14) Workers. Ezek. 48:19.


Types of work that are implied but not specifically mentioned include:


1) Cooks, butchers, and bakers. Isa. 25:6.
2) Musicians. Although everyone will sing and make merry, it seems there will be a need for specialists as there always has been. Isa. 35:10; 65:14; Jer. 30:19; 31:4.
3) Tentmakers. Isa. 54:2; Jer. 30:18.
4) Weavers, tailors, and seamstresses (clothes are worn in the Kingdom). Ezek. 44:17-19; Rev. 19:13,14.


The responsibilities described and implied in Scripture provide a general overview of the kinds of work people will be doing. Those doing the work will include everyone in the Kingdom: Christians, resurrected believers, and the “natural” people who are allowed into the Kingdom at the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Although there will be significant differences in the assignments people receive in the Millennial Kingdom, no one will hunger or be in want. Isaiah 14:30 says, “The poorest of the poor will find pasture, and the needy will lie down in safety.” The picture painted in Scripture of the future Kingdom is one of people enjoying life. They eat and drink, work and play, sing and dance, and enjoy fellowship with their Lord. The Bible does not give, nor does it need to give, a complete description of all the activities in the future. There will be clothing, so there will be tailors and seamstresses, but there is no specific mention of them in the Bible. There will be pots and containers, but there is no mention of potters. There will no doubt be baskets and rugs, but there is no mention of the weaving trades in verses referring to the future Kingdom.


The point is this: the future life on earth will be one of peace and prosperity in a familiar setting. Most people think that eternity will be vastly different from life now, but God did not make a mistake when He created this world and humans as physical beings on it.

I'm sure there are many other references. Somewhere is also a quote that the Marxists ripped off from the bible in their pagan materialism, re 'each according to his abilities, each according to his needs', but I don't recall where and didn't have time to look it up. ding might know.

 

[norwegen]

May be HE said that because for and instant of a second, the spiritual pain was terrible, intense and unbearable and that's what he thought....but of course immediately after HE knew that was not the case at all...and it was all the contrary.

If Jesus was wrong about God forsaking him, could he also be wrong about other things he said?

Jesus didn't just suffer spiritual pain on the Cross; he suffered spiritual death there. On that Cross, he was a curse; God forsook him there.

Wrong cowboy. The flesh is shit...something we all have to suffer...for a blink of the eye

Yea, that's great and all. Of course, I didn't say anything about the flesh.

 

[norwegen]

I believe that for the first time in all time, the MESSIAH was momentarily separated from HIS FATHER. It must have been horrific.

I agree. This is what I've been saying.

Jesus cried out because he became a curse, redeeming his people from the curse of the law (Gal 3:10-13). His spiritual alienation on the Cross made him fully man, devoid of divinity, forsaken, just as lost and hopeless as any other man. This alienation was in the plans; in reciting a prophecy about himself, Jesus said that he had come to pour his soul out to death (Lk 22:37; cf Is 53:12). He had to die in Spirit to meet mankind where mankind lived.

 

[Meriweather]

And the catholic teaching of purgatory lends itself to the same kind of theory...the more faithful or maybe it was righteous, go directly to heaven kind of thing while those who had some issues may spend time contemplating their short comings before moving onward to heaven... So more than just heaven and hell

Purgatory (purging) is about purification, not about contemplating shortcomings.

But do we really bring those feelings of ' lookie,
Lookie at me, I made it to a higher level of Heaven, than thee'.... to Heaven with us??

"There are many mansions" should not be taken as levels but as the acknowledgement/reassurance that we will keep our different talents and personalities and there will be a place for all differences. Figurative example: I have the capacity of a thimble for painting, but the capacity of an oak barrel for gardening. Heaven is not the kind of place that levels out (see what I did here? ) all talents and differences but welcomes all levels. There is a place for everyone.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Thread Cleaned.

I'm tired of you non-religious assholes derailing threads in this forum.

GROW UP

If you AREN'T religious, stay out.

The best and most courageous response I have ever seen by a Moderator.
I'm buying you lunch. PM me where to send your cash money.

Your friend,

ChemEngineer
I am no one to be trifled with

 

[tyroneweaver]

Probably the most misrepresented and least understood words of Jesus. As he dies on the cross he makes this statement, which at face value sounds as if he feels betrayed by God.

But in actuality he’s telling people to go read Psalm 22 that foretells his work. Before the numbering system of the Bible was created centuries later the Rabbi would read the first passage in place of what we say today as Psalm 22.


1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?

2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the one Israel praises.

4 In you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them.

5 To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame.

6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.

8“He trusts in the LORD,” they say, “let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.”

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

10 From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help.

12Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me.

15 My mouthis dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet.

17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.

19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me. You are my strength; come quickly to help me.

20Deliver me from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my people; in the assembly I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you I will fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; those who seek the LORD will praise him— may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORDand he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!

My personal opinion would be that God the Father cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
When Jesus became sin for us He was so saturated with sin, even the Father had to disassociate Himself from the situation.

 

[hobelim]

....we don't know what he said...that 2000 years ago

lol...

Whatever it was he must have pissed off the romans so much they eliminated their pantheon of gods and made the basis of their new national religion a brazen defiance of the law of the Hebrew God and a mockery and desecration of Jesus' teachings by worshipping a trinity, celebrating his torture and death, and eating his flesh and drinking his blood in the form of a lifeless cracker made by human hands (eaten for spiritual life) lol that doesn't even qualify as a decent snack food.

 

[ding]

^^^ triggered by Catholicism.

 

[hobelim]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Evidence of the power of death consequent to defying the law of God, the power of death by which the romans tried to subjugate all peoples from every nation and conquer the world.

 

[ding]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Evidence of the power of death consequent to defying the law of God, the power of death by which the romans tried to subjugate all peoples from every nation and conquer the world.

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act. How do you worship God? Attacking the faith of others?

 

[hobelim]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

 

[ding]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

Says you. But you are a lying, deceitful subversive.

Everyone sees right through you. It's so obvious.

 

[hobelim]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

Says you. But you are a lying, deceitful subversive.

Everyone sees right through you. It's so obvious.

lol... Everyone?

How many of you are there?

 

[ding]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

Says you. But you are a lying, deceitful subversive.

Everyone sees right through you. It's so obvious.

lol... Everyone?

How many of you are there?

Yep. I'm pretty sure.

Just one but on my worst day I am better than you on your best day. But you already knew that.

 

[hobelim]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

Says you. But you are a lying, deceitful subversive.

Everyone sees right through you. It's so obvious.

lol... Everyone?

How many of you are there?

Yep. I'm pretty sure.

Just one but on my worst day I am better than you on your best day. But you already knew that.

You may really like the smell of your own farts but that's not a religious experience.

 

[ding]

I worship God by treating every act as a sacred act.

So you consider defying the law of God a sacred act?

Damn, you are fucked.

Says you. But you are a lying, deceitful subversive.

Everyone sees right through you. It's so obvious.

lol... Everyone?

How many of you are there?

Yep. I'm pretty sure.

Just one but on my worst day I am better than you on your best day. But you already knew that.

You may really like the smell of your own farts but that's not a religious experience.

I try to avoid anything which reminds me of you.

But a religious experience is when Christ manifests Himself into the host for no other reason than I believe He will so that I may share in His suffering of death. Now that's a religious experience that leaves one feeling wholly unworthy, inadequate and incredibly joyous at the exact same time. Words can't do it justice. You have to experience it for yourself.

 

[beautress]

....we don't know what he said...that 2000 years ago

Word of mouth by the first Christian's was quite a skill in precise knowledge when it came to recollecting and recording things at the time of Christ. They had the joy of putting it all together eventually and the writings told the story of how wonderful wasChrist's love for the poor and the troubled people with mind and body disturbances.

 

[hobelim]

But a religious experience is when Christ manifests Himself into the host for no other reason than I believe He will so that I may share in His suffering of death.

This is just too stupid to respond to.....

Now that's a religious experience that leaves one feeling wholly unworthy, inadequate and incredibly joyous at the exact same time. Words can't do it justice. You have to experience it for yourself.

Sounds terrific, but, back in reality, your so called religious experience is just a socially acceptable psychotic break with reality.

I'm glad you enjoy it. I am very happy for you. You found Jesus in a lifeless cracker made by human hands so now can be a jackass for the rest of your life without any sense of guilt or shame..

I don't need to experience the death consequent for deliberately violating the law of God.

I see the many wonderful things your ridiculous beliefs have done for you, but I'd rather be drawn and quartered.

I prefer sanity. Thats enough for me....

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

....we don't know what he said...that 2000 years ago

CNN does
CNN knows everything.:::