Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[edward37]

I'm sure taxes had a part and I'm not sure your 6% is true ,,,but even so the rest of the south surely found no fault in their ownership

Obviously economics were part of it. Funny how you doubt my "6%" yet you didn't bat an eye slaves being "40%" of the population. Slaves were expensive. Thousands of dollars in 1861 dollars. Most people couldn't afford them. Many didn't agree with the idea of slavery. It was the rich landowners who needed them.

Still, if all the above was true, why did 258,000 Confederates die fighting the Northern invaders?

I would guess their hate drove them

 

[edward37]

BRAVO toxic .....it's in their genes

Ahhhh, so racial politics rears its ugly head. Racism has always been a big part of Democratic politics. Thanks for proving it's still there.

Come on divine The south has never lost their hate of the blacks Why do you think the south is always repub and blacks always vote dem?

 

[Ame®icano]

you ask why? Because these repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2 and those statues represent their heroes

Wow. Did you learn that from MSNBC or at your commune's school?

While there are certainly racists who support slavery, they are in the minority. A very small minority. The majority of Americans recognize slavery as an abomination even if, at the same time, they recognize a state's right to secede prior to the Civil War.

Those racists that support slavery are called republicans around these parts

They've changed their stripes over the years, they were Yellow Dog Democrats up until Segregation days when they bled into the Republican Party. But Slavers, Jim Crowe era southerners, Segregation era southerners, and now Southern evangelical Republicans.....are all the same people and their offspring

Everything really shitty that has ever happened in America can be traced back to southern and Midwestern Conservatives

Those are all democrats. You said they changed the stripes?

How about you name five racist Democrats that "switched" to "racist" Republican party.
I'll help you with first one, you fill the blanks:
1. Strom Thurmond
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

[Ame®icano]

BRAVO toxic .....it's in their genes

Ahhhh, so racial politics rears its ugly head. Racism has always been a big part of Democratic politics. Thanks for proving it's still there.

Come on divine The south has never lost their hate of the blacks Why do you think the south is always repub and blacks always vote dem?

New deal.

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm sure taxes had a part and I'm not sure your 6% is true ,,,but even so the rest of the south surely found no fault in their ownership

Obviously economics were part of it. Funny how you doubt my "6%" yet you didn't bat an eye slaves being "40%" of the population. Slaves were expensive. Thousands of dollars in 1861 dollars. Most people couldn't afford them. Many didn't agree with the idea of slavery. It was the rich landowners who needed them.

Still, if all the above was true, why did 258,000 Confederates die fighting the Northern invaders?

I would guess their hate drove them

Only if you define defending your home as "hate".

 

[Divine Wind]

Come on divine The south has never lost their hate of the blacks Why do you think the south is always repub and blacks always vote dem?

Again, where do your learn this false information? Your broad brushing of is as peculiar as it is wrong.

Don't you realize how racist it looks when you post things like "blacks always vote dem"?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Seriously, why can't you just leave them alone?

Better question: Why are they even there? Why did we spend public money on monuments to people who killed US soldiers over a state's right to enslave people?

The civil war was a terrible time in our history. What's even more terrible is lying about who and what it was about.

Since you obviously know nothing about American history, I am not going to waste my time on you.

But if you really care, get on google and bring up the civil war, read all you can on it, not just the current BS from the left who are trying to rewrite history.

The people represented by those statues fought and died for what they believed in. Taking them down is no better than when muslims destroy Buddhas in Afghanistan.

We cannot learn from history if we destroy it or lie about it.

I have a degree in US History. I've taught US History. I've read primary and secondary sources. I'm not infallible by any means, but if you want to wade in here and accuse me of being ignoring and lying, either present some facts or STFU.

Yes, they fought and died for what they believed in. That doesn't mean they're justified. Having a belief is not the same as being correct, and honoring those who killed US soldiers in battle is just plain weird.

Im inclined to agree with you but i think there is something to be said for the rewriting of history or the belief that we can hide from it by removing reminders of it. You cant learn from your mistakes when you pretend they didn't happen or hide evidence of them.

 

[Redfish]

If statues of Lee and Jackson must come down, why not statues and monuments to Washington and Jefferson (both slave owners).?

If we are to remove everything that offends anyone, why do we allow a MLK boulevard in every US city? Some people are offended by that.

If we take the liberal arguments to their logical conclusion, we would have no monuments or statues and every street would be numbered, not named. Every city would be numbered not named. New York is named after a british city, the british killed americans, soooooooooooo.

Please would one of you libs tell me what removing the statues in NOLA is going to accomplish? will it reduce the crime rate? will it fix the potholes? will it improve the streetcar lines? will it clean up the French quarter?


what exactly, is this going to accomplish?

 

[Redfish]

... and regardless, you still support democrats.

The Democrats did not form as a party until the 1830s.....The issue of slavery predated them by 200 years

How that refute the fact that since its inception, Democrat party was racist and pro slavery?

The conservatives in the south were racist and pro slavery...they still are

bullshit. where do you post from, winger? where is your care facility located?

How do you think Trump got elected?

by getting more electoral votes than the corrupt lying Hillary Clinton. Because the American people did not want any more of the Clinton crime family.

 

[Redfish]

... and regardless, you still support democrats.

The Democrats did not form as a party until the 1830s.....The issue of slavery predated them by 200 years

How that refute the fact that since its inception, Democrat party was racist and pro slavery?

The conservatives in the south were racist and pro slavery...they still are

The only racists on the south were Democrats. The only pro slave owners on south and north were, you're guessing it... Democrats.

Now they are Republican

bullshit, name the current republicans that want slavery and exhibit racist beliefs? Would Ben carson be one? How about Tim Scott? Mia Love?

you are so full of shit.

 

[edward37]

Come on divine The south has never lost their hate of the blacks Why do you think the south is always repub and blacks always vote dem?

Again, where do your learn this false information? Your broad brushing of is as peculiar as it is wrong.

Don't you realize how racist it looks when you post things like "blacks always vote dem"?

Divine what % of blacks have voted Dem even before Obama? Is what I said a lie? Or are dems not supposed to utter words like that to embarrass Republicans?

 

[edward37]

The Democrats did not form as a party until the 1830s.....The issue of slavery predated them by 200 years

How that refute the fact that since its inception, Democrat party was racist and pro slavery?

The conservatives in the south were racist and pro slavery...they still are

bullshit. where do you post from, winger? where is your care facility located?

How do you think Trump got elected?

by getting more electoral votes than the corrupt lying Hillary Clinton. Because the American people did not want any more of the Clinton crime family.

So they took in the Ponzi like con man who will walk away with billions when he's through screwing America

 

[paperview]

Seriously, why can't you just leave them alone?

Better question: Why are they even there? Why did we spend public money on monuments to people who killed US soldiers over a state's right to enslave people?

The civil war was a terrible time in our history. What's even more terrible is lying about who and what it was about.

Since you obviously know nothing about American history, I am not going to waste my time on you.

But if you really care, get on google and bring up the civil war, read all you can on it, not just the current BS from the left who are trying to rewrite history.

The people represented by those statues fought and died for what they believed in. Taking them down is no better than when muslims destroy Buddhas in Afghanistan.

We cannot learn from history if we destroy it or lie about it.

I have a degree in US History. I've taught US History. I've read primary and secondary sources. I'm not infallible by any means, but if you want to wade in here and accuse me of being ignoring and lying, either present some facts or STFU.

Yes, they fought and died for what they believed in. That doesn't mean they're justified. Having a belief is not the same as being correct, and honoring those who killed US soldiers in battle is just plain weird.

Im inclined to agree with you but i think there is something to be said for the rewriting of history or the belief that we can hide from it by removing reminders of it. You cant learn from your mistakes when you pretend they didn't happen or hide evidence of them.

The irony of this statement, and others like his about erasing or rewriting history -

is that many of these CSA memorials, monuments were erected by women / Daughters of the Confederacy in the late 1800's / early 1900's while simultaneously trying to erase the history of what the war was fought for to inculcate it in southern textbooks (which lingers to this day) and seriously promote the Lost Cause mythos.

 

[paperview]

I'll add - when the monuments were popping up all over the south in the later part of the 19th century, it was for the cause of the white supremacist south.

The black population could go to hell. It was meant as a big **** you to them.

In the later 1800's early 1900's - in the south was when they really flexed their White Supremacist muscle.

That's when the Jim Crow laws, literacy tests, state mandated segregation - and basically full stomping on the Civil Rights of blacks in the South came about with a brute force.

That short bit of time after the 15th Amendment when blacks were allowed to vote, and it was Federally enforced - was gone.

Some states that had the black population make up over 50% or registered voters in the years after the war, plummeted to literally a fraction of 1% by 1900.

At this same time, a resurfacing of Confederate "nobility" came about, and United Confederate Veterans, the United Daughters of the Confederacy set about to rewriting the history of the War.

They started portraying the CSA as being about things like the tariffs, and States' Rights, and tried to whitewash the slavery aspect out of it altogether - and to the extent slavery existed, it was a benevolent kind, with gentle Mammies, generous, loving slaveowners, and happy happy slaves.

They did this to justify Jim Crow and the White Supremacy that brought out KKK and other paramilitary organizations that were terrorizing and intimidating the hell out of the the blacks at that time.


It was those women's groups that set in motion, even a hundred years later, with their Lost Cause propaganda and erecting of these statues all over the South the whitewash myth that still lingers.

I don't feel strongly about moving these statues one way or another, but people need to remember why and under what circumstances they were put there.

The over arching message was: White Supremacy Reigns.

 

[paperview]

A little bit more on the United Daughters of the Confederacy...their forerunners were the Ladies Monument Associations and were being created all across the South in the latter half of the 19th Century, and they made it a mission to ennoble the Lost Cause Confederacy --
Have a look at the list of all the American Civil War monuments just in Kentucky =--> a Union State!

Still, it sure is populated heavily with CSA glory and tribute.

1 Anderson Confederate Monument in Lawrenceburg
2 Barren Confederate Monument in Glasgow
3 Bath Confederate Monument in Owingsville
4 Bourbon Bourbon County Confederate Monument
5 Boyle Confederate Monument in Danville
6 Boyle Confederate Monument in Perryville
7 Boyle Union Monument in Perryville
8 Boyle Unknown Confederate Dead Monument in Perryville
9 Bracken Confederate Monument in Augusta
10 Butler Confederate-Union Veterans' Monument in Morgantown
11 Caldwell Confederate Soldier Monument in Caldwell
12 Calloway Confederate Monument in Murray
13 Christian Confederate Memorial Fountain in Hopkinsville
14 Christian Latham Confederate Monument
15 Daviess Confederate Monument in Owensboro
16 Daviess Thompson and Powell Martyrs Monument
17 Fayette Confederate Soldier Monument in Lexington
18 Fayette John C. Breckinridge Memorial
19 Fayette John Hunt Morgan Memorial
20 Fayette Ladies' Confederate Memorial
21 Franklin Colored Soldiers Monument in Frankfort
22 Franklin Confederate Monument in Frankfort
23 Fulton Confederate Memorial in Fulton
24 Fulton Confederate Memorial Gateway in Hickman
25 Graves Confederate Beauregard Memorial
26 Graves Confederate Memorial Gates in Mayfield
27 Graves Confederate Memorial in Mayfield
28 Harrison Confederate Monument in Cynthiana
29 Hart Confederate Colonel Robert A. Smith Monument
30 Hart Unknown Confederate Soldier Monument in Horse Cave
31 Henry Confederate Soldiers Martyrs Monument
32 Jefferson Adolph Bloedner Monument
33 Jefferson Confederate Martyrs Monument in Jeffersontown
34 Jefferson Confederate Monument in Louisville
35 Jefferson Confederate Castleman Monument
36 Jefferson Union Monument in Louisville
37 Jessamine Confederate Memorial in Nicholasville
38 Kenton GAR Monument in Covington
39 Kenton Veteran's Monument in Covington
40 Lewis Union Monument
41 Lincoln Confederate Monument at Crab Orchard
42 Logan Confederate Monument in Russellville
43 Marion Captain Andrew Offutt Monument
44 McCracken Confederate Monument in Paducah
45 McCracken Confederate Lloyd Tilghman Memorial
46 Mercer Beriah Magoffin Monument
47 Mercer Confederate Monument in Harrodsburg
48 Montgomery Confederate Monument of Mt. Sterling
49 Nelson Confederate Monument of Bardstown
50 Oldham Confederate Memorial in Pewee
51 Pulaski Battle of Dutton's Hill Monument
52 Pulaski Confederate Mass Grave Monument in Somerset
53 Pulaski Confederate General Felix K. Zollicoffer Monument
54 Scott Confederate Monument in Georgetown
55 Taylor Battle of Tebb's Bend Monument
56 Trigg Confederate Monument of Cadiz
57 Union Confederate Monument of Morganfield
58 Warren Confederate Monument of Bowling Green
59 Warren Confederate William F. Perry Monument
60 Woodford Confederate Monument in Versailles


Kentucky, land of Abraham Lincoln's birthplace. Awash in the Confederacy!

 

[Ame®icano]

I'll add - when the monuments were popping up all over the south in the later part of the 19th century, it was for the cause of the white supremacist south.

The black population could go to hell. It was meant as a big **** you to them.

In the later 1800's early 1900's - in the south was when they really flexed their White Supremacist muscle.

That's when the Jim Crow laws, literacy tests, state mandated segregation - and basically full stomping on the Civil Rights of blacks in the South came about with a brute force.

That short bit of time after the 15th Amendment when blacks were allowed to vote, and it was Federally enforced - was gone.

Some states that had the black population make up over 50% or registered voters in the years after the war, plummeted to literally a fraction of 1% by 1900.

At this same time, a resurfacing of Confederate "nobility" came about, and United Confederate Veterans, the United Daughters of the Confederacy set about to rewriting the history of the War.

They started portraying the CSA as being about things like the tariffs, and States' Rights, and tried to whitewash the slavery aspect out of it altogether - and to the extent slavery existed, it was a benevolent kind, with gentle Mammies, generous, loving slaveowners, and happy happy slaves.

They did this to justify Jim Crow and the White Supremacy that brought out KKK and other paramilitary organizations that were terrorizing and intimidating the hell out of the the blacks at that time.


It was those women's groups that set in motion, even a hundred years later, with their Lost Cause propaganda and erecting of these statues all over the South the whitewash myth that still lingers.

I don't feel strongly about moving these statues one way or another, but people need to remember why and under what circumstances they were put there.

The over arching message was: White Supremacy Reigns.

Short summary of the Democrat party.

 

[usmbguest5318]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery.

The South (CSA) seceded mainly for that reason, but the act of seceding did not, itself, start the Civil War. The CSA started what became the Civil War in defense of their newly formed nation because the North (USA) refused to comply with the CSA's request that they vacate the military installation at Fort Sumter.

Could the South have seceded and the Civil War been averted had the CSA's leaders found another way to resolve the issue of the USA holding a fort in SC? We'll never know for sure, but probably not, for the USA was't of mind to let the secession stand, so it'd have taken herculean quantities of highly effective diplomacy to have done so and allow the CSA to endure.

 

[rightwinger]

you ask why? Because these repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2 and those statues represent their heroes

Wow. Did you learn that from MSNBC or at your commune's school?

While there are certainly racists who support slavery, they are in the minority. A very small minority. The majority of Americans recognize slavery as an abomination even if, at the same time, they recognize a state's right to secede prior to the Civil War.

You are dancing around the issue

They seceded to protect their right to own slaves. They created a nation where 40% of the population was in slavery
That is what you are defending

Are you saying "repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2" or are you dancing around the issue?

Add to your percentage that only 6% owned slaves. So why were so many Confederates willing to fight and/or die in the Civil War? Was it to defend slavery or to defend their state from Northern aggression?

As we saw in the Civil Rights era, it went beyond those who owned slaves to maintaining a subclass of people that even the lowest white was superior to. No matter how bad I have it...at least I am better than a negro

They fought that battle for another 100 years

 

[BlindBoo]

For those objecting to taking down the monuments. Can you explain why this monument should be protected?

I think it is an awesome reminder of several things. Among them is that the civil war didn't end in 1865. In fact it's still going on. I think it belongs in a museum. But the history of what this represents should be taught in schools and never forgotten.

 

[edward37]

you ask why? Because these repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2 and those statues represent their heroes

Wow. Did you learn that from MSNBC or at your commune's school?

While there are certainly racists who support slavery, they are in the minority. A very small minority. The majority of Americans recognize slavery as an abomination even if, at the same time, they recognize a state's right to secede prior to the Civil War.

You are dancing around the issue

They seceded to protect their right to own slaves. They created a nation where 40% of the population was in slavery
That is what you are defending

Are you saying "repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2" or are you dancing around the issue?

Add to your percentage that only 6% owned slaves. So why were so many Confederates willing to fight and/or die in the Civil War? Was it to defend slavery or to defend their state from Northern aggression?

As we saw in the Civil Rights era, it went beyond those who owned slaves to maintaining a subclass of people that even the lowest white was superior to. No matter how bad I have it...at least I am better than a negro

They fought that battle for another 100 years

And when blacks started taking rednecks jobs the necks really got pissed