Why is Putin picking on Ukraine?

[Otis Mayfield]

1. Putin's popularity is tanking so he needs a foreign enemy for the Russian people to rally against.

2. Putin really believes Russia is threatened by Ukraine.

3. Putin wants more territory for Russia, and Ukraine is right next door.

4. Ukraine is the "bread basket" of Russia, the place where all the food comes from. It's warmer and stuff grows there. Russia must secure its food source.

Other?

 

[ESay]

Putin views Russia as a global superpower with its own sphere of influence.

 

[DudleySmith]

He's a thug, and sees that nobody will stand in his way.

 

[Donald H]

1. Putin's popularity is tanking so he needs a foreign enemy for the Russian people to rally against.

Putinl's popularity isn't tanking but his popularity is by far the biggest obstacle that stands in the way of encroachment on Russia's borders.

2. Putin really believes Russia is threatened by Ukraine.

No, Ukraine is not a threat to Russia. The threat is obvious.

3. Putin wants more territory for Russia, and Ukraine is right next door.

That's definitely one of the US talking points.

4. Ukraine is the "bread basket" of Russia, the place where all the food comes from. It's warmer and stuff grows there. Russia must secure its food source.

The problem with your theory is that Russia doesn't have the Ukraine and in fact allowed the Ukraine it's autonomy. (On certain conditions)

Other?

Any of the US talking points can be examined for credibility. It appears that new front lines are to be drawn and they are going to be closer to Russia's border.

And Putin might be thinking of some other front lines in alliance with China that are within America's sphere of influence.

 

[FA_Q2]

Ukraine is on the Russian border and thereby represents a SIGNIFIGANT geo-political interest for Russia. That is a given. They have been trending to the west for awhile now and we went so far as to meddle in their elections to speed this process up (I know, its only bad when Russia does it right..). Russia wants Ukraine under its influence, not the US.

Not remotely different than what the US would think if Mexico was under the influence of Russia or what we did think when Cuba was under their influence. And Russia thinks that at this juncture, the US does not have the chops to stop them from gaining and/or maintaining that influence. It is not really all that complicated why they want to have a larger influence over Ukraine even if the geo-politics of it is enormously complicated.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Ukraine is on the Russian border and thereby represents a SIGNIFIGANT geo-political interest for Russia. That is a given. They have been trending to the west for awhile now and we went so far as to meddle in their elections to speed this process up (I know, its only bad when Russia does it right..). Russia wants Ukraine under its influence, not the US.

Not remotely different than what the US would think if Mexico was under the influence of Russia or what we did think when Cuba was under their influence. And Russia thinks that at this juncture, the US does not have the chops to stop them from gaining and/or maintaining that influence. It is not really all that complicated why they want to have a larger influence over Ukraine even if the geo-politics of it is enormously complicated.

Would Ukraine move to the Western influence if Russia and Putin weren't such assholes?

 

[FA_Q2]

Would Ukraine move to the Western influence if Russia and Putin weren't such assholes?

Generally, I would say yes. The counter factual is pretty hard to actually prove but I think it is rather clear that Russian influence simply is not as useful as trending toward all of the most wealthy, powerful and free nations on the planet.

What does Russia really have to offer? Oil and poverty, that is about it. The west has a lot to offer. I would say that is why Russia flexes its muscle militarily, they do not have anything of real value to offer and as such need to offer safety. The same safety 'Guido' offers when he stops buy for the MOB's protection payment.

 

[Donald H]

Ukraine is on the Russian border and thereby represents a SIGNIFIGANT geo-political interest for Russia. That is a given. They have been trending to the west for awhile now and we went so far as to meddle in their elections to speed this process up (I know, its only bad when Russia does it right..). Russia wants Ukraine under its influence, not the US.

Not remotely different than what the US would think if Mexico was under the influence of Russia or what we did think when Cuba was under their influence. And Russia thinks that at this juncture, the US does not have the chops to stop them from gaining and/or maintaining that influence. It is not really all that complicated why they want to have a larger influence over Ukraine even if the geo-politics of it is enormously complicated.

There's pressure on Putin to invade Ukraine and that pressure will continue to increase. The only thing that holds Putin back is the fact that Germany will nix the Nordstream 2.
And from America's strategic POV, Nordstream 2 must be stopped.

Maddow supplies the evidence for that in her tirade over Nordstream being Russian aggression against Ukraine.
Those who didn't see Maddow doing it can be challenged to be able to understand how she could have made that theory work??

The truly stupid on the left side will just accept the theory and not have to bother trying to reconcile her propaganda.

While the right don't require anymore prowar urging.

 

[Donald H]

Generally, I would say yes. The counter factual is pretty hard to actually prove but I think it is rather clear that Russian influence simply is not as useful as trending toward all of the most wealthy, powerful and free nations on the planet.

What does Russia really have to offer? Oil and poverty, that is about it. The west has a lot to offer. I would say that is why Russia flexes its muscle militarily, they do not have anything of real value to offer and as such need to offer safety. The same safety 'Guido' offers when he stops buy for the MOB's protection payment.

It's not exactly what Russia has to offer, it's what the alliance that Russia will become a part of, has to offer. Two great alliances are forming and the struggle will be engaged throughout the world.

Russia has a huge amount to offer to the side to which they form their alliance. Partly in the same way Canada will, but in much more as a large nuclear power.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

It's not exactly what Russia has to offer, it's what the alliance that Russia will become a part of, has to offer. Two great alliances are forming and the struggle will be engaged throughout the world.

Russia has a huge amount to offer to the side to which they form their alliance. Partly in the same way Canada will, but in much more as a large nuclear power.

Hey! It's the "Russia Today" guy.

What's ol' RT saying about the Ukraine crisis?

I'd go to RT myself, but I don't want to wind up on the FBIs list of possible traitors.

 

[Donald H]

Hey! It's the "Russia Today" guy.

What's ol' RT saying about the Ukraine crisis?

I'd go to RT myself, but I don't want to wind up on the FBIs list of possible traitors.

I think it's pretty safe, even in America, to visit the RT site. I feel no threat as a Canadian in doing so.
I wouldn't encourage anyone to do so, other than just to say that handicapping oneself from hearing and reading other opinions, wouldn't be a reason to fear your government taking legal measures against you!

Well, at least that's my position from 'where' I sit on the question. Better safe than sorry Otis.

 

[MisterBeale]

This is often a source of information which the Anglo-American press does not let the western audience know about. It may give us an interesting perspective;

Europe Faces a Moment of Truth Over Russia’s Demands on the United States Presence in Europe​

Europe Faces a Moment of Truth Over Russia’s Demands on the United States Presence in Europe

The German government has recently refused overflight rights to the Royal Air Force who were sending planes to Ukraine loaded with weapons. The French

journal-neo.org

"The German government has recently refused overflight rights to the Royal Air Force who were sending planes to Ukraine loaded with weapons. The French government also refused overflight rights, which meant that the British planes had to make a long detour to eventually reach their destination.

A further development of note in this context was that the Italian government also joined their French and German colleagues in refusing to be a part of United States inspired sanctions against Russia. Is this a straw in the wind for finally marking growing European disagreement with the United States inspired sanctions policy against Russia?"

Honestly? I didn't know about these developments. The western media would have us believe that the western alliance is united and getting stronger, not that there are disagreements. . .

" . . . The other reason for the Americans wanting their written response to the Russian proposals remaining secret is that they are unlikely to please their European allies, and in particular Ukraine. The usual reason for secrecy is that the content is to someone’s disadvantage. In the present case the real loser of any compromise or concession by the Americans is that the one truly disadvantaged is the United States itself.

If it agrees to the Russian demand for an effective dismantling of the nuclear threats against Russia by withdrawing those missiles from several European allies that border Russia, it is unlikely to please those countries who have made a career out of the imminent Russian “threat” to their continued independent existence. Such an agreement would also signal to the Europeans the United States no longer itself believes their own propaganda about an imminent Russian attack across their borders.

Some commentators have also gone so far as to suggest that United States capitulation to the Russian demands spells the beginning of the end for the NATO alliance itself. That is unlikely. The United States has invested too much in its NATO program to meekly accept that it is hugely irrelevant, and quietly withdraw. They have after all invested a huge amount of money and political capital to meekly accept the Russian demands.

But clearly they have some sort of compromise in mind that disadvantages their European allies in some way. It is difficult to see any other possible explanation for the requested secrecy as to the contents of their answer to the Russian proposals.

One thing however, is abundantly clear. The three major western European nations, Germany, France and Italy are clearly sick and tired of being second fiddle to whatever scheme the United States drags out to try and maintain its hegemony. . . . "

 

[Donald H]

This is often a source of information which the Anglo-American press does not let the western audience know about. It may give us an interesting perspective;

Europe Faces a Moment of Truth Over Russia’s Demands on the United States Presence in Europe​

Europe Faces a Moment of Truth Over Russia’s Demands on the United States Presence in Europe

The German government has recently refused overflight rights to the Royal Air Force who were sending planes to Ukraine loaded with weapons. The French

journal-neo.org

"The German government has recently refused overflight rights to the Royal Air Force who were sending planes to Ukraine loaded with weapons. The French government also refused overflight rights, which meant that the British planes had to make a long detour to eventually reach their destination.

A further development of note in this context was that the Italian government also joined their French and German colleagues in refusing to be a part of United States inspired sanctions against Russia. Is this a straw in the wind for finally marking growing European disagreement with the United States inspired sanctions policy against Russia?"

Honestly? I didn't know about these developments. The western media would have us believe that the western alliance is united and getting stronger, not that there are disagreements. . .

" . . . The other reason for the Americans wanting their written response to the Russian proposals remaining secret is that they are unlikely to please their European allies, and in particular Ukraine. The usual reason for secrecy is that the content is to someone’s disadvantage. In the present case the real loser of any compromise or concession by the Americans is that the one truly disadvantaged is the United States itself.

If it agrees to the Russian demand for an effective dismantling of the nuclear threats against Russia by withdrawing those missiles from several European allies that border Russia, it is unlikely to please those countries who have made a career out of the imminent Russian “threat” to their continued independent existence. Such an agreement would also signal to the Europeans the United States no longer itself believes their own propaganda about an imminent Russian attack across their borders.

Some commentators have also gone so far as to suggest that United States capitulation to the Russian demands spells the beginning of the end for the NATO alliance itself. That is unlikely. The United States has invested too much in its NATO program to meekly accept that it is hugely irrelevant, and quietly withdraw. They have after all invested a huge amount of money and political capital to meekly accept the Russian demands.

But clearly they have some sort of compromise in mind that disadvantages their European allies in some way. It is difficult to see any other possible explanation for the requested secrecy as to the contents of their answer to the Russian proposals.

One thing however, is abundantly clear. The three major western European nations, Germany, France and Italy are clearly sick and tired of being second fiddle to whatever scheme the United States drags out to try and maintain its hegemony. . . . "

NEO? Wow Beale, just wow!
This is highly suggestive of another bridge too far similar to the Crimea, but clearly on America this time and not on Nato!

Can you save me some time and tell me who the hell is NEO?

 

[MisterBeale]

NEO? Wow Beale, just wow!
This is highly suggestive of another bridge too far similar to the Crimea, but clearly on America this time and not on Nato!

Can you save me some time and tell me who the hell is NEO?

A source that should always be double checked?

Statement by the Defence Secretary in the House of Commons, 17 January 2022

The Defence Secretary has given a statement to the House of Commons on the situation in Ukraine.

www.gov.uk

 

[MisterBeale]

NEO? Wow Beale, just wow!
This is highly suggestive of another bridge too far similar to the Crimea, but clearly on America this time and not on Nato!

Can you save me some time and tell me who the hell is NEO?

I believe the report might have been based on this?

British aircraft avoid Germany on Ukraine weapon supply run

Two British C-17 transport aircraft carrying weapons to Ukraine went around German airspace - why?

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

OTH. . . both TASS and WaPo are reporting the same on the diplomatic proposals;

Washington Asked Russia to Keep US Response on Security Guarantees Secret

US officials have asked their Russian colleagues not to publish Washington’s written response to Moscow’s proposal on security guarantees, The Washignton Post has reported.However, according to the paper, "a senior State Department official acknowled

anti-empire.com

 

[Otis Mayfield]

SIMON: Ron, let me ask you to apply your powers of political analysis to Vladimir Putin. What are his goals in deploying so many troops along the border of a neighboring state that, after all, has not threatened Russia?

ELVING: Ukraine itself is no threat to Russia in the usual military sense, but to Putin, Ukraine poses a real threat nonetheless because if Ukraine can break away from the sphere of Russian influence, if Ukraine can have a free democracy and a growing economy with less corruption than it had in the Soviet era or the more recent past, that is a fundamental threat to Putin's regime and Putin's way of doing business. So he's not afraid of Ukraine's weapons or soldiers. He fears what the success of an independent and democratic Ukraine may mean to other countries that were once under the Soviet umbrella or behind the Iron Curtain, as we used to say, Scott, including, ultimately, Russia itself.





Putin is terrified of having a successful Ukraine next door while Russia continues to implode.

Russia is more of a Mexico than a Brazil, GDP wise. Only Russia has a lot of guns. Both are corrupt a.f.

You can imagine as Russia turns into more and more of a shithole, Russians would sneak into Ukraine to work illegally. Putin would never survive the humiliation.

Interesting.

 

[ESay]

You can imagine as Russia turns into more and more of a shithole, Russians would sneak into Ukraine to work illegally. Putin would never survive the humiliation

Well, that will hardly come true. About the Russians seeking work in Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have enough decent job proposals to attract Russians. Even more, it is believed that 1 to 3 million Ukrainians work abroad because they can't find desirable job opportunities inside the country.

 

[FA_Q2]

Well, that will hardly come true. About the Russians seeking work in Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have enough decent job proposals to attract Russians. Even more, it is believed that 1 to 3 million Ukrainians work abroad because they can't find desirable job opportunities inside the country.

Perhaps but the situation right now is less important than possible improvement. I think the overall point is that if Ukraine moves closer to the west and that causes more prosperity than that will be a guide light for the other countries Putin wants to bring back under Russian influence.

The Russian economy is a joke, he has very little to offer the other nations and one of Putin's major goals is reviving the old soviet block of nations.