Why is gender-nonconformity bad? Alternatively, why must one's gender align with their sex?

[justinacolmena]

I'll stay simple. If someone wants me to call a giraffe a hippopotamus I tell the to fucxxk themselves. Nuff said.

Jo

You've got Adam, stark naked in the Garden of Eden, giving names to all the animals, yet you haven't even got the body parts of a human being right.

 

[Marianne]

Since we're speaking anecdotally here, I've spoken to many people just your age or older, and their accounts are quite different. It seems to be a very political thing, actually. I know a guy down the street, 70 some years old. Very educated, travelled the world, quite successful throughout his life. He sure as hell agrees that we shouldn't care what anyone else has to say, but he's very openly said that there's no point in his whole life where that was a commonplace practice. People have always imposed their ideals on others, and people have always been succumbing to those ideals. The few eccentric individuals that disregard what society says have always been in the extreme minority.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced this "homosexual brainwashing." In fact, nobody ever speaks about homosexuals except to say "don't intentionally be an asshole, just as you wouldn't intentionally be an asshole to anyone else." If you choose to be an asshole, that's fine, but if you're ostracized for that, don't be surprised.

---

Alright, so the issue is people raping others in bathrooms. Given how commonplace homosexuality is, why are transgenders any more of a concern?

However, I can see the argument that if someone would like to receive the benefits of living as the other gender fully and legally, they should speak to a psychologist. Not because anything is terribly wrong with them, but for that reason exactly: I don't want a man walking into a woman's bathroom for the purposes of committing terrible acts. It should be verified that the individual truly desires to live as the opposite gender.

---

I'm going to assume you meant race, not ethnicity. To change ethnicities is actually nothing weird, since an ethnicity is a cultural group, not a color or set of physical attributes. If I went and lived in South Korea, learned Korean, adopt their customs, I'm just as good an ethnic Korean.

However, to change races and to change genders is totally different. There is a tangible, stark, undeniable, identifiable difference between the genders. Race, not so much, unless you're referring to culture, which I already addressed. To switch genders is to say that you better fit within the tangible set of traits we associate with the opposite gender, which is a real phenomenon, as I established.

Where does this go against rudimentary biology, may I ask?

---

That's alright, who says you need to know the other person's argument to argue against them?

In 1963, gender was defined as "a euphemism for the sex of a human being, often intended to emphasize the social and cultural, as opposed to the biological, distinctions between the sexes" in the Oxford English Dictionary. This is the definition I'm using. Even if we said "gender is synonymous with sex," I can just invent a new word and my argument is still the same. There are general social and psychological traits we associate with the different sexes, that's generally referred to as gender, and some people do not fit within the confines of their sexes associated gender. For those people, I cannot fathom how it is irrational to live as the gender opposite to the one they were assigned at birth.

It can be, yes, I acknowledged that. But even when it is considered a mental illness (and it's not always considered a mental illness), it is referred to as such for the level of distress caused by the misalignment between their sex and the traits others associate with that sex (gender).

People "don't accept who they were born as" all the time. I was born into this group, but I feel more at home with another group. This isn't a mental illness, and I don't see why a surgery suddenly makes it one. I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find a great number of professionals that consider gender-nonconformity by itself a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria isn't really bodily in many cases. There are many people that live as the opposite gender and feel perfectly fine with the genitalia they were born with. Some don't. The key is, in the vast majority of both cases, it's due to an observable separation between their gender (the psychological traits associated with their sex) and their sex.

In the case of body dysmorphia, the observations the individuals makes about their own body are false. They observe features that aren't there, or grossly overexaggerate existing features. I believe body dysmorphia is often the basis for anorexia nervosa.

You're right, and that's because the doctor recognizes that it's due to a distorted perception of oneself. In gender dysphoria, there is no intrinsically distorted perception, one desires to conform with a set of observable traits of their own that happen to be associated with the opposite gender. Sometimes, they desire for their sex to conform with that gender. In other cases, they don't.

I don't think it has much to do with sexuality. If I go to my doctor and ask for them to do that, they will refer me to a psychologist, and after some time of treatment, the psychologist will refer me back to the doctor. Once it has been identified that I truly do suffer from gender dysphoria, or simply heavily desire gender-nonconformity (because the two are different), that's when the doctor will take action.

They do receive therapy, and the therapist most often recognizes that conforming to their perceived gender is the best possible treatment for that misalignment.

I won't claim that this doesn't happen, but there are numerous accounts of people living out as the opposite gender and finding sustained happiness through it. Psychologists for some time now have pretty openly admitted that living as the opposite gender is often a successful treatment for gender dysphoria.

---

I pretty clearly outlined my point.

---

Because it describes a real phenomenon. That's how words work, I think.

---

I mean, what about homosexuals? Some women are stronger than others. By a lot. Some men are stronger than others. By a lot. Homosexuals have always existed, and bathroom rape has always been a thing as a result.

I'm not saying you should be able to just freely walk into any bathroom you'd like. Personally, I can see an argument that you should have the referral of a psychologist first. Psychologists are pretty damn good at what they do, and I'll be frank: I trust them to identify whether someone really is gender-nonconforming or if they're trying to BS their way into a bathroom so they can commit ungodly acts.

Agreed. That's why I don't support allowing transgender individuals to play professional sports.

I don't know anyone that gets offended over an honest mistake. I have messed up someone's pronouns before, and they have never gotten mad at me, as long as I made the effort to try to get it right every now and then. Now one thing I don't do, is I don't really assume someone's gender when I look at them. If you do, I get that, that's just a me thing. I usually refer to everyone as "they/them" and that works because it applies to any gender you can possibly conceive of.

Conclusion: transgenders are usually very respectful and considerate if you're respectful and considerate.

The Bathroom: it isn’t necessary Transgenders we are concerned with it’s perverts dressing as transgenders we are concerned with. You can’t tell the difference.

 

[Marianne]

Since we're speaking anecdotally here, I've spoken to many people just your age or older, and their accounts are quite different. It seems to be a very political thing, actually. I know a guy down the street, 70 some years old. Very educated, travelled the world, quite successful throughout his life. He sure as hell agrees that we shouldn't care what anyone else has to say, but he's very openly said that there's no point in his whole life where that was a commonplace practice. People have always imposed their ideals on others, and people have always been succumbing to those ideals. The few eccentric individuals that disregard what society says have always been in the extreme minority.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced this "homosexual brainwashing." In fact, nobody ever speaks about homosexuals except to say "don't intentionally be an asshole, just as you wouldn't intentionally be an asshole to anyone else." If you choose to be an asshole, that's fine, but if you're ostracized for that, don't be surprised.

---

Alright, so the issue is people raping others in bathrooms. Given how commonplace homosexuality is, why are transgenders any more of a concern?

However, I can see the argument that if someone would like to receive the benefits of living as the other gender fully and legally, they should speak to a psychologist. Not because anything is terribly wrong with them, but for that reason exactly: I don't want a man walking into a woman's bathroom for the purposes of committing terrible acts. It should be verified that the individual truly desires to live as the opposite gender.

---

I'm going to assume you meant race, not ethnicity. To change ethnicities is actually nothing weird, since an ethnicity is a cultural group, not a color or set of physical attributes. If I went and lived in South Korea, learned Korean, adopt their customs, I'm just as good an ethnic Korean.

However, to change races and to change genders is totally different. There is a tangible, stark, undeniable, identifiable difference between the genders. Race, not so much, unless you're referring to culture, which I already addressed. To switch genders is to say that you better fit within the tangible set of traits we associate with the opposite gender, which is a real phenomenon, as I established.

Where does this go against rudimentary biology, may I ask?

---

That's alright, who says you need to know the other person's argument to argue against them?

In 1963, gender was defined as "a euphemism for the sex of a human being, often intended to emphasize the social and cultural, as opposed to the biological, distinctions between the sexes" in the Oxford English Dictionary. This is the definition I'm using. Even if we said "gender is synonymous with sex," I can just invent a new word and my argument is still the same. There are general social and psychological traits we associate with the different sexes, that's generally referred to as gender, and some people do not fit within the confines of their sexes associated gender. For those people, I cannot fathom how it is irrational to live as the gender opposite to the one they were assigned at birth.

It can be, yes, I acknowledged that. But even when it is considered a mental illness (and it's not always considered a mental illness), it is referred to as such for the level of distress caused by the misalignment between their sex and the traits others associate with that sex (gender).

People "don't accept who they were born as" all the time. I was born into this group, but I feel more at home with another group. This isn't a mental illness, and I don't see why a surgery suddenly makes it one. I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find a great number of professionals that consider gender-nonconformity by itself a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria isn't really bodily in many cases. There are many people that live as the opposite gender and feel perfectly fine with the genitalia they were born with. Some don't. The key is, in the vast majority of both cases, it's due to an observable separation between their gender (the psychological traits associated with their sex) and their sex.

In the case of body dysmorphia, the observations the individuals makes about their own body are false. They observe features that aren't there, or grossly overexaggerate existing features. I believe body dysmorphia is often the basis for anorexia nervosa.

You're right, and that's because the doctor recognizes that it's due to a distorted perception of oneself. In gender dysphoria, there is no intrinsically distorted perception, one desires to conform with a set of observable traits of their own that happen to be associated with the opposite gender. Sometimes, they desire for their sex to conform with that gender. In other cases, they don't.

I don't think it has much to do with sexuality. If I go to my doctor and ask for them to do that, they will refer me to a psychologist, and after some time of treatment, the psychologist will refer me back to the doctor. Once it has been identified that I truly do suffer from gender dysphoria, or simply heavily desire gender-nonconformity (because the two are different), that's when the doctor will take action.

They do receive therapy, and the therapist most often recognizes that conforming to their perceived gender is the best possible treatment for that misalignment.

I won't claim that this doesn't happen, but there are numerous accounts of people living out as the opposite gender and finding sustained happiness through it. Psychologists for some time now have pretty openly admitted that living as the opposite gender is often a successful treatment for gender dysphoria.

---

I pretty clearly outlined my point.

---

Because it describes a real phenomenon. That's how words work, I think.

---

I mean, what about homosexuals? Some women are stronger than others. By a lot. Some men are stronger than others. By a lot. Homosexuals have always existed, and bathroom rape has always been a thing as a result.

I'm not saying you should be able to just freely walk into any bathroom you'd like. Personally, I can see an argument that you should have the referral of a psychologist first. Psychologists are pretty damn good at what they do, and I'll be frank: I trust them to identify whether someone really is gender-nonconforming or if they're trying to BS their way into a bathroom so they can commit ungodly acts.

Agreed. That's why I don't support allowing transgender individuals to play professional sports.

I don't know anyone that gets offended over an honest mistake. I have messed up someone's pronouns before, and they have never gotten mad at me, as long as I made the effort to try to get it right every now and then. Now one thing I don't do, is I don't really assume someone's gender when I look at them. If you do, I get that, that's just a me thing. I usually refer to everyone as "they/them" and that works because it applies to any gender you can possibly conceive of.

Conclusion: transgenders are usually very respectful and considerate if you're respectful and considerate.

Karen’s: Yes like every group trans have Karen’s too. I mentioned it because I recently saw a video on Ridiculousness that featured a Karen going off because the person got the gender identity wrong. Then there’s this person. Now the way she dresses you’d think she’d prefer perhaps sir. Nope she identifies as a she. I’m just saying if you make it confusing don’t get pissed if folks get it wrong.

 

[justinacolmena]

The Bathroom: it isn’t necessary Transgenders we are concerned with it’s perverts dressing as transgenders we are concerned with. You can’t tell the difference.

Stay in your own toilet stall and stop peeking under the partition at the other ladies then.

 

[Marianne]

Since we're speaking anecdotally here, I've spoken to many people just your age or older, and their accounts are quite different. It seems to be a very political thing, actually. I know a guy down the street, 70 some years old. Very educated, travelled the world, quite successful throughout his life. He sure as hell agrees that we shouldn't care what anyone else has to say, but he's very openly said that there's no point in his whole life where that was a commonplace practice. People have always imposed their ideals on others, and people have always been succumbing to those ideals. The few eccentric individuals that disregard what society says have always been in the extreme minority.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced this "homosexual brainwashing." In fact, nobody ever speaks about homosexuals except to say "don't intentionally be an asshole, just as you wouldn't intentionally be an asshole to anyone else." If you choose to be an asshole, that's fine, but if you're ostracized for that, don't be surprised.

---

Alright, so the issue is people raping others in bathrooms. Given how commonplace homosexuality is, why are transgenders any more of a concern?

However, I can see the argument that if someone would like to receive the benefits of living as the other gender fully and legally, they should speak to a psychologist. Not because anything is terribly wrong with them, but for that reason exactly: I don't want a man walking into a woman's bathroom for the purposes of committing terrible acts. It should be verified that the individual truly desires to live as the opposite gender.

---

I'm going to assume you meant race, not ethnicity. To change ethnicities is actually nothing weird, since an ethnicity is a cultural group, not a color or set of physical attributes. If I went and lived in South Korea, learned Korean, adopt their customs, I'm just as good an ethnic Korean.

However, to change races and to change genders is totally different. There is a tangible, stark, undeniable, identifiable difference between the genders. Race, not so much, unless you're referring to culture, which I already addressed. To switch genders is to say that you better fit within the tangible set of traits we associate with the opposite gender, which is a real phenomenon, as I established.

Where does this go against rudimentary biology, may I ask?

---

That's alright, who says you need to know the other person's argument to argue against them?

In 1963, gender was defined as "a euphemism for the sex of a human being, often intended to emphasize the social and cultural, as opposed to the biological, distinctions between the sexes" in the Oxford English Dictionary. This is the definition I'm using. Even if we said "gender is synonymous with sex," I can just invent a new word and my argument is still the same. There are general social and psychological traits we associate with the different sexes, that's generally referred to as gender, and some people do not fit within the confines of their sexes associated gender. For those people, I cannot fathom how it is irrational to live as the gender opposite to the one they were assigned at birth.

It can be, yes, I acknowledged that. But even when it is considered a mental illness (and it's not always considered a mental illness), it is referred to as such for the level of distress caused by the misalignment between their sex and the traits others associate with that sex (gender).

People "don't accept who they were born as" all the time. I was born into this group, but I feel more at home with another group. This isn't a mental illness, and I don't see why a surgery suddenly makes it one. I believe you'd be hard-pressed to find a great number of professionals that consider gender-nonconformity by itself a mental illness.

Gender dysphoria isn't really bodily in many cases. There are many people that live as the opposite gender and feel perfectly fine with the genitalia they were born with. Some don't. The key is, in the vast majority of both cases, it's due to an observable separation between their gender (the psychological traits associated with their sex) and their sex.

In the case of body dysmorphia, the observations the individuals makes about their own body are false. They observe features that aren't there, or grossly overexaggerate existing features. I believe body dysmorphia is often the basis for anorexia nervosa.

You're right, and that's because the doctor recognizes that it's due to a distorted perception of oneself. In gender dysphoria, there is no intrinsically distorted perception, one desires to conform with a set of observable traits of their own that happen to be associated with the opposite gender. Sometimes, they desire for their sex to conform with that gender. In other cases, they don't.

I don't think it has much to do with sexuality. If I go to my doctor and ask for them to do that, they will refer me to a psychologist, and after some time of treatment, the psychologist will refer me back to the doctor. Once it has been identified that I truly do suffer from gender dysphoria, or simply heavily desire gender-nonconformity (because the two are different), that's when the doctor will take action.

They do receive therapy, and the therapist most often recognizes that conforming to their perceived gender is the best possible treatment for that misalignment.

I won't claim that this doesn't happen, but there are numerous accounts of people living out as the opposite gender and finding sustained happiness through it. Psychologists for some time now have pretty openly admitted that living as the opposite gender is often a successful treatment for gender dysphoria.

---

I pretty clearly outlined my point.

---

Because it describes a real phenomenon. That's how words work, I think.

---

I mean, what about homosexuals? Some women are stronger than others. By a lot. Some men are stronger than others. By a lot. Homosexuals have always existed, and bathroom rape has always been a thing as a result.

I'm not saying you should be able to just freely walk into any bathroom you'd like. Personally, I can see an argument that you should have the referral of a psychologist first. Psychologists are pretty damn good at what they do, and I'll be frank: I trust them to identify whether someone really is gender-nonconforming or if they're trying to BS their way into a bathroom so they can commit ungodly acts.

Agreed. That's why I don't support allowing transgender individuals to play professional sports.

I don't know anyone that gets offended over an honest mistake. I have messed up someone's pronouns before, and they have never gotten mad at me, as long as I made the effort to try to get it right every now and then. Now one thing I don't do, is I don't really assume someone's gender when I look at them. If you do, I get that, that's just a me thing. I usually refer to everyone as "they/them" and that works because it applies to any gender you can possibly conceive of.

Conclusion: transgenders are usually very respectful and considerate if you're respectful and considerate.

I like other peoples opinions but long posts with endless multiple points are annoying. I choose not to annoy myself because I don’t have too.

Surgery: I recognize BDD and BIID are separate disorders however as with many psychological diseases you can have more than one.
In example I have OCD and depression.

You mentioned Gender dysphoria(GID). Gender dysphoria is a real psychological disease. The fact that psychology recognizes as a DISEASE doesn’t much to support the LGBTQ agenda of gays being normal does it?

In any case any if a doctor won’t cut off a healthy leg because the the person has BIID they shouldn’t cut off a healthy penis because a person has GID. It’s the same thing.

As for the definition of Gender, having a definition changed do to psycho babble doesn’t fly. Most English speaking people equate gender and sex as going hand in hand. Just because someone wanted an agenda based definition doesn’t make it reality.

 

[jc456]

It isn't.

No one said it was. It’s just wrong

 

[YoursTruly]

As a straight white male, I love getting bashed because I think straight.
It makes my heart smile.

(It also makes me point my finger and lol)

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

Our body is not our own. We are bought with a price. It is not good to mess with a thing that is not yours. Think of that before you think of removing a part that is on your body.

 

[toobfreak]

Why is gender-nonconformity bad? Alternatively, why must one's gender align with their sex?​

Simple really, no need to look at any of your diatribe.

LOOK AT THE SCIENCE. What is the role of gender everywhere in nature?

In general, the POINT of gender is the perpetuation of the species. The other point is in teaching the offspring a balanced model of both the masculine and the feminine roles to build a healthy emotional foundation in the child. Gender freaks are a deviation from nature's plan.

 

[jc456]

Obviously you have your own boyfriend or husband, and I'm sure things are very simple between you two. It is rather unusual, but there are other couples who are actually gay or of the same sex, and some straight couples don't do or say the same things or act or dress the same way you think males and females respectively, should.

In other words, many of us don't dig in with the knife as hard as you do in your district.

well gay couples are either both male or both female. what other sex do you think there is? you should probably tell it to someone in science.

 

[danielpalos]

What is gender conformity?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

[jc456]

People aren't put in a box over their sex, gender or what ever you want to call it. It what they are.
Maybe it doesn't work for a few million. But it works fine and dandy for a few BILLION. Which is why being trans isn't normal. And should be treated as if it wasn't normal.

personally, they call themselves whatever the fk they want, they are still legally either male or female.

 

[jc456]

What is gender conformity?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

so?

 

[jc456]

I do see reasons for concern in regards to how things are handled with minors. But can not understand why anyone cares about adults sex life's or if they want to wear a dress.

i don't give two shits what they want to call themselves. The issue is what is expected for their asinine thinking. Why do they think they deserve different attention? That's the issue.

 

[Circe]

personally, they call themselves whatever the fk they want, they are still legally either male or female.

They can call themselves whatever they want; they just can't make me do it.

 

[Circe]

i don't give two shits what they want to call themselves. The issue is what is expected for their asinine thinking. Why do they think they deserve different attention? That's the issue.

Very likely it's the whole issue, wanting attention without deserving it. Like celebrities do.

There was this girl at Harvard YEARS ago, must have been the first of this strange sect of trannies, who for three years went around telling people she was "really" male and so she went into the men's room, etc., the whole thing. She got into the newspapers this way. I was interested in the issue for awhile till somebody wrote in comments in the Wall Street Journal that she was going to find that she had wasted a valuable resource, a Harvard degree, if all she could do in life would be to pretend she was really male.

And I realized that she just wanted a lot of attention on the cheap.

I suspect they are all doing that. They aren't able enough to get attention for doing anything good or interesting, but they are dying for attention all the same, so they try to get it by being bizarre and transgressive.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No wonder France thinks America is a shit hole.

We've allowed freedom to mean "the right to any bullshit you want", (and impose that on others).

 

[Circe]

No wonder France thinks America is a shit hole.

We've allowed freedom to mean "the right to any bullshit you want", (and impose that on others).

I doubt "France" thinks anything. Besides, the French are too busy with a constant flood of terrorist murders, strikes, political rebellion, and epidemic disease to bother worrying about us.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Only two.....1 and 2.....

Male and female.

yes, only two sexes...not only two genders.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I am saying it.

Male or female, the way you were born, that's all the identification you need.

You really need to learn the difference between sex and gender. Sex is a biological term, gender is a literary term