Why I hate many Civilians - A Military-member's Manifesto

[sealybobo]

Hence, why I see you as a civilian hack.

Did you graduate college? I see people who didn't as uneducated hacks. Yes you have a lot of experiences that we don't but consider this. When the guys were over dying in Iraq, they didn't know that Bush lied us into that quagmire. Us here back home knew it but you guys believed you were looking for WMD's or that you were fighting for Freedom. Or you were fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

So does that mean now that we left Afganistan they will be coming here?

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

I don't think Jean Luke's father got a pension. I think it was in England. After the war he had to come home and raise a family. And he took it out on his son and wife. Jean Luke told the story about how his father was a weekend drunk. And when he came home they could hear him singing. They knew what kind of night they were going to have based on the song he was singing.

I'm not talking about career military personal. I'm talking about guys who go serve 4 or 5 years, do really exciting and important things, are hero's, in charge of billions of dollars worth of equipment, all to come home and struggle to find a good paying job. You know the guys I'm talking about. I feel bad for them. I think employers should want to snatch them up. My buddy was in the Navy, then went to UofM and finally became a pharmacutical (SP) rep for 30 years. He's a millionaire now.

Transitions man. This is what I have seen. If they were not successful in the military. Most of the time, they are not successful in the civilian world. Success, in any environment is dependent mostly on a few very fundamental characteristics. Timeliness, attention to detail, punctuality, communication, written, and verbal.
I have seen guys who couldn't get their shit together as a civilian, come into the military, get the support, the training, and the responsibility commensurate with position, and shine. Then get out, and find a successful way forward.

 

[sealybobo]

View attachment 530898


Transitions man. This is what I have seen. If they were not successful in the military. Most of the time, they are not successful in the civilian world. Success, in any environment is dependent mostly on a few very fundamental characteristics. Timeliness, attention to detail, punctuality, communication, written, and verbal.
I have seen guys who couldn't get their shit together as a civilian, come into the military, get the support, the training, and the responsibility commensurate with position, and shine. Then get out, and find a successful way forward.

They kicked my cousin out of the army. He never said why. I really wish one day he would tell us.

I was watching a show on serial killers. Jeffrey Dahmer tried the military. He was kicked out.

I'm thinking about this guy who worked with us for about 6 months. He didn't know anything about what we do but the bosses thought they could train him. He was a flake. Always talked about his time in the military. Sounds like he had an important job. Well here he is in civilian life and he's trying to find a good paying job that he can do. Without an education. That's not easy.

You can be all those things you said. On time, dependable, etc...but if you don't have a specific skill that pays well, you have to find one. And it's especially hard if you don't have a college degree.

I'm curious. What jobs do people have in the military where they get out and immediately corporate America snatches them up? Computer people, security companies, what else? Logistics?

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

They kicked my cousin out of the army. He never said why. I really wish one day he would tell us.

Million reasons.

I'm thinking about this guy who worked with us for about 6 months. He didn't know anything about what we do but the bosses thought they could train him. He was a flake. Always talked about his time in the military. Sounds like he had an important job. Well here he is in civilian life and he's trying to find a good paying job that he can do. Without an education. That's not easy.

You can be all those things you said. On time, dependable, etc...but if you don't have a specific skill that pays well, you have to find one. And it's especially hard if you don't have a college degree.

Well, in your example, part of that is on the employer. If the prospective employee doesn't have the requisite education, then why hire?
I used to tell my airmen that they had 75% tuition assistance where most time they don't even have to touch their GI Bill. It's there, go to school. You have to want it.

I'm curious. What jobs do people have in the military where they get out and immediately corporate America snatches them up? Computer people, security companies, what else? Logistics?

Lots. They have commensurate credentialing programs where you can gain the certifications that your civilian counterpart has before discharge.
As an example in my AFSC 2A5X1 the Air Force provided an avenue where airmen could get their Airframe & Powerplant, and FCC licensure prior to discharge. This is required if you wanna work aircraft on the civilian side.
Pretty much every AFSC had a program.

 

[sealybobo]

Million reasons.



Well, in your example, part of that is on the employer. If the prospective employee doesn't have the requisite education, then why hire?
I used to tell my airmen that they had 75% tuition assistance where most time they don't even have to touch their GI Bill. It's there, go to school. You have to want it.


Lots. They have commensurate credentialing programs where you can gain the certifications that your civilian counterpart has before discharge.
As an example in my AFSC 2A5X1 the Air Force provided an avenue where airmen could get their Airframe & Powerplant, and FCC licensure prior to discharge. This is required if you wanna work aircraft on the civilian side.
Pretty much every AFSC had a program.

I think it's great that any young man, or woman, in America at age 18 can decide they don't like the station in life they were born into and go to the military. Now you could get sent out to a war and die, but that's the risk you got to take. If you are poor in a hood, you might get killed there too. So if I lived in a shitty neighborhood with no other options, I would join the military and experience the world. Sounds great. I know a lot of military people don't do shit. I know there are women in their army outfits sitting in some building doing nothing for 4 years but that's sort of on them. Or are they assigned those boring jobs because they really don't have any skills?

I'm sure after bootcamp they assess everyone and decide who will go into computers, who will be a grunt, who will rise to officer, etc. Fascinating to me. I wonder how many military jobs teach valuable skills vs ones that don't.
These women sitting around doing nothing but answering phones. I hope they are at least learning excel, word, powerpoint so they can be secretaries or admin assistants when they get out. Not just answering phones. So there are some people in the military just sitting around with not a lot to do? Meanwhile you have this cool fun exciting job?

Besides maybe dying in a war and being able to afford college, one big reason I would not have gone into the military is because I wrestled. I swore when I was done wrestling that I would never go through that kind of training again. So it was boot camp that stopped me. I even had nightmares about having to go off to boot camp when I was in my 20's. The thought of it made me sick. LOL. Is it hard? I can't believe there are guys out there who volunteer to be Navy Seals. Fucking bad asses.

 

[Flash]

I am glad served in the military. Great experience despite some of the shit I saw in Vietnam.

However, I don't define my life as being in the military. My life is defined by what I accomplished as a father, husband and having great career.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

I think it's great that any young man, or woman, in America at age 18 can decide they don't like the station in life they were born into and go to the military. Now you could get sent out to a war and die, but that's the risk you got to take. If you are poor in a hood, you might get killed there too. So if I lived in a shitty neighborhood with no other options, I would join the military and experience the world. Sounds great. I know a lot of military people don't do shit. I know there are women in their army outfits sitting in some building doing nothing for 4 years but that's sort of on them. Or are they assigned those boring jobs because they really don't have any skills?

I agree. I was one of those. As for jobs. Some people can go in with a guaranteed job. I was one of those. I got a guaranteed job because I didn't want to get saddled with some shit

job like 'Services Squadron' who work at the gyms, cook in chow halls, or suck the shit out of aircraft...no thanks. A lot of time people are limited by their ASVAB score, so if you're

stupid, you have to take one of the lower jobs.

I am just unlucky, that's why I took a guaranteed aircraft maintenance gig. Not my first choice (medical), but it is what it is.

Is it hard? I

Not physically, but then I went Air Force. The physical demands were not that bad, they screw with your head but in hindsight it wasn't that bad.

Now Marines, and Army I am sure are very different.

 

[sealybobo]

I am glad served in the military. Great experience despite some of the shit I saw in Vietnam.

However, I don't define my life as being in the military. My life is defined by what I accomplished as a father, husband and having great career.

I know but you know people are proud of what they did for a living? I was a lawyer, doctor or career soldier.

For you the military was just one phase of your life. Look at Rambo. What did he do for a living besides kill people?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Talk about history repeating itself. Do you remember Republicans started a riot in 2000 to stop the recount. And it worked. They stopped the count and the Supreme Court decided Bush will be president. You know that's what Trump was trying to do. Unfortunately for him it wasn't close enough to pull it off. Google Brooks Brother Riots.

And, Trump's insurrection has striking resemblance to Hitler's Beer Hall Putch. Hitler was put in jail but later became the leader of Germany. Trump probably won't go to jail even though he should, but he may make a comeback in 2024. Now that would be history repeating itself.

You have a very selective memory. Gore went to the courts first, to force the Florida Secretary of State to violate state law and allow Gore to have a selective recount of only heavily democratic counties using methodology favorable to Gore. All SCOTUS did was to overrule the Florida Supreme Court and force Florida to abide by it's own law. The post election count done by the media reinforced the Bush victory.

 

[sealybobo]

You have a very selective memory. Gore went to the courts first, to force the Florida Secretary of State to violate state law and allow Gore to have a selective recount of only heavily democratic counties using methodology favorable to Gore. All SCOTUS did was to overrule the Florida Supreme Court and force Florida to abide by it's own law. The post election count done by the media reinforced the Bush victory.

Jeb and George stole Florida. Go fuck yourself. Like I said you fucking hypocrite, if it were Hunter Biden that was the Governor and Trump lost the state, you'd see things differently, you little bitch.

 

[Asclepias]

Always talked about his time in the military. Sounds like he had an important job. Well here he is in civilian life and he's trying to find a good paying job that he can do. Without an education. That's not easy.

Most people that make it a career in the military fall into 2 categories.

1. Sense of duty. These are few and far between. Now this can be a negative as well as a positive because some of them are batshit crazy or under pressure from some family obligation.

2. Wanna be lifers. These are they guys that dont have a future as a civilian. They would never amount to shit without the military propping them up and providing them free shelter and rent. Their whole world revolves around the brainwashing you are constantly subjected to. Typically these guys wash out when they return to civilian life as they have no one holding their hands. They are angry and see everyone as an enemy.

 

[Mushroom]

Most people that make it a career in the military fall into 2 categories.

Stereotype much?

 

[justinacolmena]

I largely have a pretty negative view of Civilians who treat the military with contempt, and I largely deal with them with contempt.
Now understand, this is aimed at those civilians that deal with people like me with contempt. Military, especially career military.
I see over and over some civilian (Right or Left Wing) pop in and give some really stupid comment, and all I can do is scratch my head and wonder at the stupidity that makes people actually think that way.

Gee whiz. Get a buzz cut, scratch a bald general's head, call us "mentally ill" or play some some other dirty trick in court on us to grab our guns and make sure we're unemployed for the rest of our lives. That's the problem with the U.S. maintaining a standing Army to act as the world's policemen. One word of complaint, and all of a sudden we aren't even citizens anymore but "domestic enemies" — and they're not allowed to render us any aid or comfort under any circumstances.

 

[skye]

Hmm.....interesting to know. Thank you Muhammed.

Oozlefinch is trolling the internet again. Where have you been the couple of decades or so?

When did you get paroled?

I'm just curious. When did you get paroled? That's the subject I brought up in our discussion.

We haven't heard from you in many years, Oozlefinch.

 

[Asclepias]

Stereotype much?

"Most" and "some" are the opposite of stereotyping.

 

[Mushroom]

Hmm.....interesting to know. Thank you Muhammed.

This response has been rather amusing to me, to be honest.

And I notice that 90% of those responding are exactly the kind I was talking about. Politically obsessed and largely braindead. Repeating the exact same obsessions over and over again and showing exactly why they are the kind I treat with contempt. Insult, belittle, and attack anybody that does not follow them blindly and mindlessly. And notice, I predicted several of those very responses when I made the post.

Or even the amazement apparently of one that had not seen me "for ages". Even though as I have said repeatedly, I do not participate in political nonsense. But as the animals they are, many have to try and inject theirs into any discussion, no matter what it is. Justin is particularly upset because he has an obsession about the military taking everybody's weapons away. And his fantasy that those in the military do not have guns. And can be arrested for owning a gun.

 

[Rigby5]

...

If you want to interject why "Mister XXXXXX YYYYYY said that blah blah blah blah", I really could not give a flying ****. Talk to me about Socialism or Fascism or Communism, or talk about the US President (ANY US President) in a less then respectful manner, and I will see you as nothing but a ****ing political hack and ignore 90% of what you say. Be it President Reagan, President Clinton, President Bush, or President Barack Obama. I may, or may not like any, none, or all of the Presidents I just listed. But they are all (or were) my Commander in Chief, and I give them all the proper respect their office demands.

Why?

If you do not get it by now, you are absolutely ****ing hopeless.

But the point is we have not ever been attacked (with the intent of invasion), since 1812.
So we have never really even needed a military, and citizen soldiers would likely have done fine, and saved us trillions every year.

The problem with the military is they do not try to find the best solutions to problems, but only know about the last resort and least desirable solution, the use of force. And except MAYBE WWII, likely force was never the best solution.

If you go back to the Indian wars, Civil War, Mexican Wars, Spanish American War, WWI, Korean War, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc., they were all wrong.
There were much better choices than war.
And usually we actually lied in order to start the war for profits.
And by not complaining or saying anything when a war is obviously wrong, the military has dishonored its image.
For example, the military knew for sure Iraq had no illegal WMD or terrorist ties.

The military swore an oath to uphold the constitution and US law, which includes the UN Charter after Congress ratified it in 1945.
So then the US of force is only legal in defense from an immediate attack.
And fake pre-emptive invasions, like with Iraq, are totally illegal according to US law.
So why did not the US military say so?

 

[Rigby5]

Did you graduate college? I see people who didn't as uneducated hacks. Yes you have a lot of experiences that we don't but consider this. When the guys were over dying in Iraq, they didn't know that Bush lied us into that quagmire. Us here back home knew it but you guys believed you were looking for WMD's or that you were fighting for Freedom. Or you were fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

So does that mean now that we left Afganistan they will be coming here?

But the Pentagon must have known Saddam was innocent.
The Pentagon had info from how we gave Saddam WMD for use against the Iranians, from US inspectors who never found any WMD, etc.
So while the low level US military may have believed in what they were doing, the US military still was guilty of fraud and murder.

 

[Rigby5]

Or even the amazement apparently of one that had not seen me "for ages". Even though as I have said repeatedly, I do not participate in political nonsense. But as the animals they are, many have to try and inject theirs into any discussion, no matter what it is. Justin is particularly upset because he has an obsession about the military taking everybody's weapons away. And his fantasy that those in the military do not have guns. And can be arrested for owning a gun.

But what the military does depends on who is in control at the time.
And just like the military should not have allowed itself to be used illegally like in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., the military should not allow itself to be used against the Posse Comitatus Act, inside the US, but it will.
It just depends on who is giving the orders.
It has always been that way.
Before giving evil orders the military, the corrupt executive always first does the propaganda campaign to make it popular enough.
Like we lied and made Saddam sound evil, with fake torture and gassing the Kurds claims.

For me to respect the military, it has to stand up for what is right, and to reject evil lies from a corrupt executive that wants to start an illegal war.
Until that happens, the military is not the good guys.

 

[miketx]

Thanks, we already knew the military can't be trusted.