Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[Correll]

Christianity is a mental disease.

Your lib beliefs are your new religion.

 

[Clyde 154]

Boob-Tube Babble

Your God comes from nothing, so same difference. And "comes from" begs the question; the world could also have been there forever, with no beginning and no end.

For the McMedia muddleheads who misuse it (and whose ignorant and dysfunctional grammar Netrixers follow religiously), here's an example of the real meaning of "beg the question":
God wouldn't let us believe in Him if He didn't exist.

God is ETERNAL without end without beginning (Deut. 33:27, Genesis 21:33)........unlike Nature which was "created" with an experiation date. God had no creator. Man is not capable of "understanding" God or His eternal essence. God is an eternal being. "He (God) has put eternity in their (Men) hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end." -- Eccl. 3:11

Its clear........that you, as well as all men cannot comprehend the entirety of God.......all you can do, as with all Darwainian Cultists.....is "DISAGREE" without presenting any objective, observable, reproducible consistent evidence in support of your disagreement. A JOKE.

Why can't you comprehend God........because the entire Universe (this physical reality) including the lives of every human being have their existence within the God of Creation, explaining God's omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience.

"And God has made of ONE BLOOD (science proves that the same blood is tranfuseable regardless of race when typed correctly) ALL NATIONS OF MEN TO DWELL ON ALL THE FACE OF THE EARTH, and has determined the times before appointed and the bounds of their habitations. That they should seek the Lord (God), if haply they might feel after Him and find Him, though He is not far from every one of us: FOR IN HIM WE LIVE, AND MOVE, AND HAVE OUR BEING; " -- Acts 17: 26-28

Its simple: Just present to us the LAW OF EVOLUTION if its a FACT of SCIENCE then it must be a law of science.

 

[Cougarbear]

God is ETERNAL without end without beginning (Deut. 33:27, Genesis 21:33)........unlike Nature which was "created" with an expiration date. God had no creator. Man is not capable of "understanding" God or His eternal essence. God is an eternal being. "He (God) has put eternity in their (Men) hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end." -- Eccl. 3:11

Well, you seem to think you understand God and his eternal essence. You state he is without beginning or end. I'll accept the end part. You say he is unlike nature or has a physical body. Or, that he had no creator so you seem to be the only one capable of understanding God. Tell me, what is an eternal being if you can't understand the essence of God? And, I reject that no one can find out about the works of God. They are called Prophets when God invites them to know and share with us.

 

[ding]

Apparently you do not.

No. I have a different interpretation of Genesis than you do. I don't read Genesis literally. I read Genesis allegorically. Here's what it says.

1. God created existence
2. Everything he created is good
3. What he created was done in steps
4. Man is a product of that creation
5. Man is unlike any other creature in creation; only man has knowledge of good and evil
6. Man is made in God’s image in that he is a being which knows and creates
7. Man was told to go forth and be fruitful
8. Man was told to do as the original creator; to create for 6 days and then rest
9. Man knows right from wrong
10. Rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong when man does wrong, he rationalizes he didn’t do wrong
11. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success
12. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure
13. Pass it down to the next generation.

 

[Cougarbear]

No. I have a different interpretation of Genesis than you do. I don't read Genesis literally. I read Genesis allegorically. Here's what it says.

1. God created existence
2. Everything he created is good
3. What he created was done in steps
4. Man is a product of that creation
5. Man is unlike any other creature in creation; only man has knowledge of good and evil
6. Man is made in God’s image in that he is a being which knows and creates
7. Man was told to go forth and be fruitful
8. Man was told to do as the original creator; to create for 6 days and then rest
9. Man knows right from wrong
10. Rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong when man does wrong, he rationalizes he didn’t do wrong
11. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success
12. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure
13. Pass it down to the next generation.

The only thing I'd modify is the existence God created. I'd say he organized matter yet organized into a universe for the continuance of man.

 

[ding]

The only thing I'd modify is the existence God created. I'd say he organized matter yet organized into a universe for the continuance of man.

If the structure of matter/energy were only slightly different the universe could have been created in exactly the same way but it would be impossible for life to exist anywhere. So I would have to agree that matter/energy itself is finely tuned to produce beings that know and create.

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

 

[Synthaholic]

Your lib beliefs are your new religion.

New religion assumes I had an old religion, dumbfuck.

 

[Synthaholic]

God is eternal

Where did "God" come from?

 

[Synthaholic]

Well, you seem to think you understand God and his eternal essence. You state he is without beginning or end.

"God" will never have an end as long as people believe in fairy tales.

 

[Synthaholic]

God created existence

If "God" created existence then "God" didn't exist previously?

How could "God" create anything if "God" didn't exist?

And if "God" did exist then existence was already in effect.

Do you even give any of this any thought at all?

 

[ding]

If "God" created existence then "God" didn't exist previously?

How could "God" create anything if "God" didn't exist?

And if "God" did exist then existence was already in effect.

Do you even give any of this any thought at all?

Our existence (aka the universe). Yes, I have given this quite a bit of thought for over 20 years.

I forgive you.

 

[ding]

"God" will never have an end as long as people believe in fairy tales.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

You have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. You shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, you are so far removed from these events that you have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. You read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make yourself feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on you.

See how much thought I have given this.

Now say something snappy so you can feel good about yourself after the beating I just gave you.

 

[Synthaholic]

Our existence (aka the universe). Yes, I have given this quite a bit of thought for over 20 years.

I forgive you.

What was "God" doing before creating our existence? And where did "God" exist?

 

[Synthaholic]

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

You have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. You shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, you are so far removed from these events that you have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. You read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make yourself feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on you.

See how much thought I have given this.

Now say something snappy so you can feel good about yourself after the beating I just gave you.

So you're saying that you really know your fairy tales? Well, OK.

I used to really be into Aesop's Fables, which have better life lessons. But I never deluded myself into actually believing that scorpions could talk.

 

[ding]

What was "God" doing before creating our existence? And where did "God" exist?

Existing. God is existence itself. Existence cannot come from non-existence.

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. If the material world were not created by spirit, then everything which has occurred since the beginning of space and time are products of the material world. Everything which is incorporeal proceeded from the corporeal. There is no middle ground. There is no other option. Either the material world was created by spirit or it wasn't. All other options will simplify to one of these two lowest common denominators which are mutually exclusive.

So we need to start from that position and examine the evidence we have at our disposal which is creation itself. Specifically, the laws of nature; physical, biological and moral. And how space and time has evolved. And how we perceive God.

If we perceive God to be some magical fairy tale then everything we see will skew to that result. There won't be one single thing that we will agree with or accept. Whereas if we were trying to objectively analyze the evidence for spirit creating the material world we would listen to the whole argument and not look for trivial things to nitpick.

But since this is my argument we will use my perception of God. Which is there is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time. In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time. The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

 

[ding]

So you're saying that you really know your fairy tales? Well, OK.

I used to really be into Aesop's Fables, which have better life lessons. But I never deluded myself into actually believing that scorpions could talk.

I'm saying that you have no realistic perception of God and you will never gain anything from faith until you do. The very best you can get from life is to suffer without complaint and that doesn't seem likely.

 

[Synthaholic]

Existing. God is existence itself. Existence cannot come from non-existence.

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. If the material world were not created by spirit, then everything which has occurred since the beginning of space and time are products of the material world. Everything which is incorporeal proceeded from the corporeal. There is no middle ground. There is no other option. Either the material world was created by spirit or it wasn't. All other options will simplify to one of these two lowest common denominators which are mutually exclusive.

So we need to start from that position and examine the evidence we have at our disposal which is creation itself. Specifically, the laws of nature; physical, biological and moral. And how space and time has evolved. And how we perceive God.

If we perceive God to be some magical fairy tale then everything we see will skew to that result. There won't be one single thing that we will agree with or accept. Whereas if we were trying to objectively analyze the evidence for spirit creating the material world we would listen to the whole argument and not look for trivial things to nitpick.

But since this is my argument we will use my perception of God. Which is there is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is not matter and energy like us and God exists outside of our four dimension space time. In fact the premise is that God is no thing. That God is a spirit. A spirit is no thing. Being things we can't possibly relate to being no things. A two dimensional being would have an easier time trying to understand our third dimension than we - a four dimensional being - would in trying to understand a multi-dimensional being outside of our space time. The closest I can come to and later confirm with the physical laws is that God is consciousness. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

You can't answer a simple question, so you try to get out of it by blathering endlessly.

PoliticalChic , is this your sock?

 

[ding]

You can't answer a simple question, so you try to get out of it by blathering endlessly.

What part of "Existing. God is existence itself. Existence cannot come from non-existence." did you not understand?

 

[ding]

^^^Catholic

 

[Blues Man]

Ya, you kind of missed my pivot towards the Godhead making themselves known to the people. And, yes, most people in the earth probably create their own religion based on observations and needs to understand. But, there is a Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that does let us know they exist and to have faith in them.

Only if you believe in a triune god and not even all people who believe in a god believe that