Why do you hate

[Flopper]

OR genetically engineered fetuses.

If we actually ban all abortions, what happens to the resulting babies since the parent(s) don't want them? According to pro-lifers, there are over a million abortion in the US. There are only 87,000 adoptions in the US excluding step parent adoptions. That mean we would have potentially, 913,000 unwanted un-adopted babies. That is more than twice the number of kids now in foster care.

you ever considered that the mother take care of her child???

There are stories of mothers who once they gave birth to the unwanted child became a good mother and raised the child. This a lot more fantasy than fact. In the good old days when women were forced to give birth to a child they did not want, they surrendered them for adoption, refuse to take them, left them on doorsteps, threw them in trash cans, or kept them as long as the government paid for them.

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

 

[SweetSue92]

Why do so many of you hate God and people of faith?

I spent the first 27 years of my life playing the Good Christian game. I played it all the way. Hell, I was an officer of the church I belonged to. Then, on August 22, 2001 my eyes were opened. “The scales fell away from my eyes and I could see clearly” as Saul/Paul would put it. I finally understood the bullshit and lies of organized religion. It would take another three years to fully realize the extent of the fraud thst is organized religion, but in thst day I walked away from religion forever.

People who claim they at one time really believed almost unfailngly give a list of chores as proof.

I find that so interesting.

Dear SweetSue92 and Anathema
I came to an understanding of what Jesus, Christianity and the Bible mean
from a SECULAR humanist perspective I still have. I still think like a nontheist
but ADD the other world and language of Christian "Bible symbolism" to that
so it's like being bilingual but retaining both languages. I prefer my native tongue
so I see NOTHING wrong with people deciding they are secular/nontheist as their
preferred language and way of thinking and communicating.

A good friend of mine who was a Baptist preacher up to the age of 19
also decided he was more the path of the secular humanist; he kept all the
same message of FREE GRACE in life, and being able to FORGIVE so you
let go of the past and start every day with a new opportunity. And he always
asked "what can I do to help you" that everything should be about how do we
love one another and help others. If it isn't helping, if it isn't necessary (like preaching
about Jesus and God as a bunch of religious conditions on relations) then why waste
time going there. He worked alongside Christians and Christian groups on RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE to help people recovering from criminal problems including addictions, abuse
any manner of social or mental ills and didn't believe in judging people, just helping
RESTORE people's sanity and sense of humanity by teaching forgiveness so people
can work together.

It's the forgiveness factor that saves relations and people so we can work together.

I still think he and I benefit from "receiving Jesus" in order to have that greater
capacity for forgiveness that is divine on a collective spiritual level.

I find that we as human beings ALL RUN INTO areas or people or groups
WE SIMPLY CANNOT BRING OURSELVES TO FORGIVE and treat as ourselves.
There are people or groups we JUST CANNOT STAND and don't want anything
to do with them.

So that's where the "divine forgiveness" comes in that is beyond ourselves,
and it takes "other people" to forgive and work with THOSE PEOPLE or
THOSE GROUPS where we draw the line. We have our limits. We have
our biases because we don't live forever, we don't have unlimited time
or brain power or energy to work out and save every single relationship
or conflict we have with every single person of every single group.

We pick and choose who it's worth to us to forgive and work with.
And cut off people who will WASTE our time and energy.

So that's why Christians pray to God through Jesus to take care of
those sins we don't WANT to forgive and work through. By praying
for help to forgive, it keeps all that negative BURDEN off the mind
instead of holding on to those obstructive and destructive thoughts and energy.

People who don't forgive but hold on to these NEGATIVE thought
patterns and energy, end up PROJECTING those onto other people
so that causes more suffering instead of helping.

So even my friend who identified ATHEIST was still teaching the
same message he found universal in life: that forgiving and
receiving FREE GRACE saves you from this suffering or insanity
"that puts people through hell." He still found this to be true
even though he gave up using "Jesus God and the Bible" to teach it.
He had plenty of people he helped by teaching it through secular
explanation of why forgiveness is necessary, even for your own sanity sake.

I will always love that about him, and believe God made him an
Atheist for a reason, so he could explain and share with thousands of
people in prison and worldwide who understand this better
USING SECULAR language and explanation. People like him
who just don't get it or relate to the Christian symbolism and why
that's necessary, when the meaning is universal and just as easy
if not easier to explain using plain secular terms that apply to real life.

This is all of it cheap grace--self above God. Whatever you can't get done on your own merit, you can "invoke" Jesus Christ to maybe step in and do it for you.

That is not how it works, and it's why worldview is so vital.

 

[progressive hunter]

you ever considered that the mother take care of her child???

There are stories of mothers who once they gave birth to the unwanted child became a good mother and raised the child. This a lot more fantasy than fact. In the good old days when women were forced to give birth to a child they did not want, they surrendered them for adoption, refuse to take them, left them on doorsteps, threw them in trash cans, or kept them as long as the government paid for them.

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

saying that abortion is not murder is what baby killers tel themselves so they can sleep at night,,,

and as you stated in your last post,
"The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. "

you clearly know its a child,,so save me your bullshit

and you should look up the definition of fetus sometime,,,it basically means offspring,,,so women are murdering their own offspring/baby

 

[Flopper]

There are stories of mothers who once they gave birth to the unwanted child became a good mother and raised the child. This a lot more fantasy than fact. In the good old days when women were forced to give birth to a child they did not want, they surrendered them for adoption, refuse to take them, left them on doorsteps, threw them in trash cans, or kept them as long as the government paid for them.

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

saying that abortion is not murder is what baby killers tel themselves so they can sleep at night,,,

and as you stated in your last post,
"The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. "

you clearly know its a child,,so save me your bullshit

and you should look up the definition of fetus sometime,,,it basically means offspring,,,so women are murdering their own offspring/baby

Fetus - an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

Definition of FETUS

 

[progressive hunter]

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

saying that abortion is not murder is what baby killers tel themselves so they can sleep at night,,,

and as you stated in your last post,
"The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. "

you clearly know its a child,,so save me your bullshit

and you should look up the definition of fetus sometime,,,it basically means offspring,,,so women are murdering their own offspring/baby

Fetus - an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

Definition of FETUS

go to show how fast the lefties are changing the definition of words,,,a year ago MW had this same definition

fe·tus
/ˈfēdəs/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.
   synonyms: embryo, fertilized egg, unborn baby, unborn child
   "antibodies are passed via the placenta to the fetus"

 

[ding]

Exactly, yeah. That might be upsetting to those of you who believe the fetus is a fully formed person, waiting to emerge - but it's the only way it can really work. What you're proposing creates a nightmare scenario where government is in control of our inner bodily processes. No thanks.

Has it ever occurred to you that a government empowered to regulate reproduction might do things you don't like? Like force women to abortions, for example?

OR genetically engineered fetuses.

If we actually ban all abortions, what happens to the resulting babies since the parent(s) don't want them? According to pro-lifers, there are over a million abortion in the US. There are only 87,000 adoptions in the US excluding step parent adoptions. That mean we would have potentially, 913,000 unwanted un-adopted babies. That is more than twice the number of kids now in foster care.

you ever considered that the mother take care of her child???

There are stories of mothers who once they gave birth to the unwanted child became a good mother and raised the child. This a lot more fantasy than fact. In the good old days when women were forced to give birth to a child they did not want, they surrendered them for adoption, refuse to take them, left them on doorsteps, threw them in trash cans, or kept them as long as the government paid for them.

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

So to you the life in her womb is her property?

 

[dblack]

Why do so many of you hate God and people of faith?

I don't hate God since I don't believe he exists. I don't hate Zeus either for the same reason. I don't hate people of faith but I do hate what some people of faith have done and continue to do in the name of faith. Flying planes into buildings is an obvious example but enacting laws that affect me in the name of their faith is essentially the same thing.

Maybe you can answer:

• Why do people of faith hate people of other faiths?
  
• Why do people of faith hate people with no faith?

are you referring to the law that doesnt allow you to murder your child???

Science, in the form of ultrasound images and DNA has done more to dissuade people from killing the pre-born than religion ever did.

Then why does the government need to get involved?

 

[progressive hunter]

Why do so many of you hate God and people of faith?

I don't hate God since I don't believe he exists. I don't hate Zeus either for the same reason. I don't hate people of faith but I do hate what some people of faith have done and continue to do in the name of faith. Flying planes into buildings is an obvious example but enacting laws that affect me in the name of their faith is essentially the same thing.

Maybe you can answer:

• Why do people of faith hate people of other faiths?
  
• Why do people of faith hate people with no faith?

are you referring to the law that doesnt allow you to murder your child???

Science, in the form of ultrasound images and DNA has done more to dissuade people from killing the pre-born than religion ever did.

Then why does the government need to get involved?

in order to protect the lives of children from their mothers intent on killing them

 

[LittleNipper]

Still better options than being given no opportunity for life at all.

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

saying that abortion is not murder is what baby killers tel themselves so they can sleep at night,,,

and as you stated in your last post,
"The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. "

you clearly know its a child,,so save me your bullshit

and you should look up the definition of fetus sometime,,,it basically means offspring,,,so women are murdering their own offspring/baby

Fetus - an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

Definition of FETUS

Let's let GOD define what is viable and quit depending on our own determinations. A woman who chooses to engage in sex with men has already decided that the likelihood of a pregnancy is a possibility. It is foolishness to suggest otherwise.

 

[ding]

Why do so many of you hate God and people of faith?

I don't hate God since I don't believe he exists. I don't hate Zeus either for the same reason. I don't hate people of faith but I do hate what some people of faith have done and continue to do in the name of faith. Flying planes into buildings is an obvious example but enacting laws that affect me in the name of their faith is essentially the same thing.

Maybe you can answer:

• Why do people of faith hate people of other faiths?
  
• Why do people of faith hate people with no faith?

are you referring to the law that doesnt allow you to murder your child???

Science, in the form of ultrasound images and DNA has done more to dissuade people from killing the pre-born than religion ever did.

Then why does the government need to get involved?

Because the life in her womb isn’t property.

 

[Hollie]

The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. Turning half million or more abortions into unwanted children is not a good option for society, the family, nor the child.

its a better option than to be a nation of baby killers,,

if a women doesnt want a child she can of course keep her legs closed or try one of several options of birth control,,,

murder is never an option,,,

Abortion is not murder.
There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like it because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so. They pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset them.

saying that abortion is not murder is what baby killers tel themselves so they can sleep at night,,,

and as you stated in your last post,
"The option to give birth should always lie with the women, not the state. Today women give birth to children because they want to bring new life into the world or want a baby to love, cherish, and to raise. "

you clearly know its a child,,so save me your bullshit

and you should look up the definition of fetus sometime,,,it basically means offspring,,,so women are murdering their own offspring/baby

Fetus - an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

Definition of FETUS

Let's let GOD define what is viable and quit depending on our own determinations. A woman who chooses to engage in sex with men has already decided that the likelihood of a pregnancy is a possibility. It is foolishness to suggest otherwise.

The gods are not in any position to sit and judge. I’m more comfortable with secular law defining what’s viable as opposed to Christian fundamentalists imposing sharia-like judgements.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the christians lost control of the situation with roe v wade, they can not stand being left on the sideline not in charge of everyone's lives but only with their own.

they see their eventual demise when people are set free. the woman in charge of their own reproductive choices.

 

[alang1216]

But you still support all abortions, right?

No

Do you support some abortions of healthy fetus?

Yes, some being the operative word.

 

[alang1216]

I was talking about babies with Achondrogenesis. You changed that to "healthy human lives".

Seems dishonest to me.

No. I highlighted that you were using a miniscule number of unhealthy babies to rationalize the killing of millions of healthy babies. It's that whole defining the rule through exception thingee I was telling you about.

Apples and oranges. There should be, and there are, different rules for different situations. Much as you'd like it to be, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Sorry but this is the real word.

Except you have been using it to justify all abortions.

Untrue.

Let me rephrase. You use it to justify abortion of some healthy fetus.

Again untrue. The justification for aborting a healthy fetus is unrelated to the justification for aborting an unhealthy fetus.

 

[ding]

No. I highlighted that you were using a miniscule number of unhealthy babies to rationalize the killing of millions of healthy babies. It's that whole defining the rule through exception thingee I was telling you about.

Apples and oranges. There should be, and there are, different rules for different situations. Much as you'd like it to be, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Sorry but this is the real word.

Except you have been using it to justify all abortions.

Untrue.

Let me rephrase. You use it to justify abortion of some healthy fetus.

Again untrue. The justification for aborting a healthy fetus is unrelated to the justification for aborting an unhealthy fetus.

There is no justification for aborting a healthy fetus.

 

[ding]

But you still support all abortions, right?

No

Do you support some abortions of healthy fetus?

Yes, some being the operative word.

Must be hard for you to sleep at night.

 

[progressive hunter]

No. I highlighted that you were using a miniscule number of unhealthy babies to rationalize the killing of millions of healthy babies. It's that whole defining the rule through exception thingee I was telling you about.

Apples and oranges. There should be, and there are, different rules for different situations. Much as you'd like it to be, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Sorry but this is the real word.

Except you have been using it to justify all abortions.

Untrue.

Let me rephrase. You use it to justify abortion of some healthy fetus.

Again untrue. The justification for aborting a healthy fetus is unrelated to the justification for aborting an unhealthy fetus.

what do you consider unhealthy??

besides the one youve already stated,,,

would downs syndrome be one??

 

[LittleNipper]

.
the christians lost control of the situation with roe v wade, they can not stand being left on the sideline not in charge of everyone's lives but only with their own.

they see their eventual demise when people are set free. the woman in charge of their own reproductive choices.

The whole roe VS wade thing was a farce. As a man, I would never consider marriage to a woman who hated babies.

 

[Hollie]

.
the christians lost control of the situation with roe v wade, they can not stand being left on the sideline not in charge of everyone's lives but only with their own.

they see their eventual demise when people are set free. the woman in charge of their own reproductive choices.

The whole roe VS wade thing was a farce. As a man, I would never consider marriage to a woman who hated babies.

That "farce" you describe has been a reasonable compromise that most Americans have agreed with for nearly 50 years.

I suspect your greatest complaint is an inability for religious extremists to impose their extremist views on others.

 

[alang1216]

There is no justification for aborting a healthy fetus.

You state your opinion as a fact. It is NOT a fact.

Your 'healthy' fetus qualifier is a red herring since you have yet to say that that there is a justification for aborting an unhealthy fetus.