What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?

JimH52

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
41,083
Reaction score
16,944
Points
2,330
Location
US
If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.

There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.

And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

Therefore, I ask the following question - Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?
No Ivan.....
 

Persuader

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
4,000
Reaction score
3,340
Points
1,928
The Dims support the Ukraine because this is where all the millions are laundered and they get their cuts.
You russian propagandists are looking dumber by the minute....the more you post the more you lose.

Not even to mention of these yellow bastards posting on this topic are stupid and coinfused so called conservatives and republicanss....who are hurting republican chances in the midterms big time.
 

JimH52

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
41,083
Reaction score
16,944
Points
2,330
Location
US
You russian propagandists are looking dumber by the minute....the more you post the more you lose.

Not even to mention of these yellow bastards posting on this topic are stupid and coinfused so called conservatives and republicanss....who are hurting republican chances in the midterms big time.
Poootin has many employees on social media posting his propaganda.
 

Persuader

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
4,000
Reaction score
3,340
Points
1,928
If you know any country – except modern Ukraine - where national minorities are divided into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, please tell the name of such a country.

There was such a division in Nazi Germany where, for example, the Danish minority had all rights, the Lusatian Slavic minority had less right than Danes, and the Jewish minority had less right than Lusatians.

And we see the same pyramid in modern Ukraine when we consider the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

For example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

Therefore, I ask the following question - Isn’t the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education similar to Nazi laws?
Russian propagandists have attempted to muddy the waters by bringing in alleged Nazi b.s.

All you need to know is that a totalitarian nation (Russia) invaded one of its neighboring countries....a vain attempt by putin to re-establih the Russian Empire which folded decades ago.

In so doing putin has committed war crimes....targeting the civilian population.
 

JimH52

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
41,083
Reaction score
16,944
Points
2,330
Location
US
Russian propagandists have attempted to muddy the waters by bringing in alleged Nazi b.s.

All you need to know is that a totalitarian nation (Russia) invaded one of its neighboring countries....a vain attempt by putin to re-establih the Russian Empire which folded decades ago.

In so doing putin has committed war crimes....targeting the civilian population.
And now he is getting a spanking by the Ukrainian army, which is a third or less, the size of the Russian army. This has weakened the Russian nation and it's army. It will take years to recover from the Poootin blunder.

But the Russian candidate, trump, will continue to praise Poootin as a Genius.
 
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
The Native Americans have reservations which have their own rules. Gambling can happen on reservations, but often not in the rest of the state.

Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.

But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.

The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup
84.75% White, 3.39% African American, 0.85% Native American, 5.93% from other races, and 5.08% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race are 10.17% of the population.
See Wikipedia

I repeat once again.

I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with a three-level division of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
16,605
Reaction score
3,202
Points
280
Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.

But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.

The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup

See Wikipedia

I repeat once again.

I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with a three-level division of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.
You are a liar. The education law names Ukrainian as the national language and requires all students to study it after fifth grade, but does not forbid any students from also study other languages. Putin was outraged that Ukraine had a national language and certain other countries and people such as Hungary and Tartars complained that their communities would have to study Ukrainian instead of their ethnic languages, there is no basis in fact for claiming that some minorities have fewer rights than others. Were you not such a brain dead bigot, you would understand the law benefits all Ukrainian by improving the cohesiveness of Ukrainian citizens and enables minority students to compete more effectively in searching for jobs rather than being held back a lack of knowledge of Ukrainian.
 

frigidweirdo

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
39,493
Reaction score
6,205
Points
1,130
Your example has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e., it has nothing to do with the Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education.

This Law divides ethnic minorities into three categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights.

But you cannot say that Native Americans have more rights than, for example, White Americans in opening casinos.

The town Black Hawk has casinos although it has the following racial makeup

See Wikipedia

I repeat once again.

I know only two countries – Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – with a three-level division of ethnic minorities, please see my previous post.

Then it's pointless having this conversation because you're going to see whatever it is you want to see, ignore everything else. Bye.
 
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
You are a liar.

You are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.
Please tell what item of the following ones you deny?

Item 1
Ukraine has the Law on Secondary Education (see this Law on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament).

Item 2
The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education includes the Article 5 “Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти” (Language of education in institutions of general secondary education).

Item 3
The Article 5 of The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education provides that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

Item 4
Such three-level division of ethnic minorities existed in Nazi Germany (see my previous post):
  • ethnic minorities of the category A had more rights;
  • ethnic minorities of the category B had less rights than the category A, but they had more rights than the category C;
  • ethnic minorities of the category C had less rights than the category B.
Item 5
There was not and is not any country in the world – except Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – which had or has such three-level division of ethnic minorities with respect to their rights.
 
Last edited:

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
16,605
Reaction score
3,202
Points
280
You are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.
Please tell what item of the following ones you deny?

Item 1
Ukraine has the Law on Secondary Education (see this Law on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament).

Item 2
The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education includes the Article 5 “Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти” (Language of education in institutions of general secondary education).

Item 3
The Article 5 of The Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education provides that, for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in state schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

Item 4
Such three-level division of ethnic minorities existed in Nazi Germany (see my previous post):
  • ethnic minorities of the category A had more rights;
  • ethnic minorities of the category B had less rights than the category A, but they had more rights than the category C;
  • ethnic minorities of the category C had less rights than the category B.
Item 5
There was not and is not any country in the world – except Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine – which had or has such three-level division of ethnic minorities with respect to their rights.
Again you serve up the same stupid racist garbage. The law made Ukrainian the official language of Ukraine and that drove the Russian government and the Hungarian government crazy and you present solid evidence it still drives them crazy. There is nothing in the law that singles out Tartars for special treatment. Your entire post is bullshit and only expresses anti Ukrainian sentiment within the Russia and Hungarian governments.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
16,605
Reaction score
3,202
Points
280
This thread isn’t about Putin; this thread deals with the question: Has Ukrainian legislation features of Nazi legislation or it hasn’t?
We both know there are no similarities and you are parroting Putin's bullshit claims about Ukraine being run by Nazis.
 

JimH52

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
41,083
Reaction score
16,944
Points
2,330
Location
US
Again you serve up the same stupid racist garbage. The law made Ukrainian the official language of Ukraine and that drove the Russian government and the Hungarian government crazy and you present solid evidence it still drives them crazy. There is nothing in the law that singles out Tartars for special treatment. Your entire post is bullshit and only expresses anti Ukrainian sentiment within the Russia and Hungarian governments.
Nothing...NOTHING....justifies Russia attacking a sovereign country and committing barbaric war crimes in the process. Poootin is a war criminal. There is nowhere in the world he can go...besides his allies and Mar a Lago where he is not in danger of being arrested.

Anyone defending him is just as guilty and probably a paid mouth piece.
 
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
Your entire post is bullshit...

I repeat once again - you are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.

Please tell WHAT ITEM from my previous post you deny?

Do you deny the item 2?

Do you deny the item 4?

And so on.
 
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
... Russia attacking ...

...Poootin is ...

Users with the Ukrainian flag on their avatars have created on the USMB a vast number of threads about “Russia attacking”, “Poootin” etc.

But very few threads deal here with the questions: “What kind of a country is modern Ukraine?”, “What kind of legislation has it?”, etc.

And even in these very few threads – e.g. in this one - users with the Ukrainian flag on their avatars don’t want to tell about their country or its laws and try to steer the conversation towards “Russia attacking” and “Poootin” instead.
 

para bellum

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2022
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
699
Points
918
Location
PacNW
The law doesn't prevent anyone from taking classes in other languages, it sets minimum standards for institutions that are state funded. It guarantees that indigenous people and minorities have access to courses in their own languages- IOW it requires state funded educational institutions to provide coursework in indigenous and other minority languages as well as Ukrainian.

Lots of countries have state languages, it doesn't make them Nazis.

The law requires schools to maintain a higher level of alternative language course for indigenous minorities than it does for EU languages, and puts EU languages above non-EU languages.

Article 5. Language of education in institutions of general secondary education

1. The language of the educational process in institutions of general secondary education is the state language.
Everyone who obtains a full general secondary education in an educational institution studies the state language in accordance with state standards.

2. Every student is guaranteed the right to complete general secondary education in the state language in state, communal and corporate educational institutions, which is ensured by organizing the teaching of all educational subjects (integrated courses) in the state language, except for cases specified by this Law.

3. Persons belonging to indigenous peoples or national minorities of Ukraine are guaranteed and provided with the right to study the language of the respective indigenous people or national minority in state, communal and corporate institutions of general secondary education or through national cultural societies.

4. Persons belonging to the indigenous peoples of Ukraine have the right to complete general secondary education in a state, communal or corporate educational institution in the language of the respective indigenous people along with the state language.

5. Persons belonging to national minorities of Ukraine have the right to receive primary education in a state, communal or corporate educational institution in the language of the respective national minority along with the state language.

6. Persons who belong to the national minorities of Ukraine, whose languages are official languages of the European Union, and exercise the right to study in the relevant languages in state, communal or corporate educational institutions, acquire:
basic secondary education in the state language in the amount of at least 20 percent of the annual amount of study time in the 5th grade with an annual increase of this amount (at least 40 percent in the 9th grade);
specialized secondary education in the state language in the amount of at least 60 percent of the annual amount of study time.
Persons belonging to other national minorities of Ukraine acquire basic and specialized secondary education in the state language at state, communal or corporate educational institutions in the amount of at least 80 percent of the annual amount of study time.
The list of educational subjects (integrated courses) studied in the state language and the language of the national minority is determined by the educational program of the educational institution in accordance with the requirements of state standards and taking into account the peculiarities of the language environment.

7. The right to education in the language of the indigenous people or national minority of Ukraine, along with the state language, is realized in separate classes with education in the corresponding language, which are opened in accordance with the requirements of this Law.

8. Persons with hearing impairment have the right to study Ukrainian sign language and study Ukrainian sign language.

9. Educational programs of general secondary education institutions may provide for the teaching of one or more subjects (integrated courses) alongside the state language in English or another official language of the European Union.

10. Private educational institutions that provide full general secondary education at the expense of individuals and/or legal entities have the right to freely choose the language of the educational process (except for educational institutions that receive public funds) and are obliged to ensure that students master the state language in accordance with state standards.

11. The state promotes the creation and operation of institutions of general secondary education abroad, in which teaching is carried out in the Ukrainian language or the Ukrainian language is studied.
 
Last edited:
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
Lots of countries have state languages, it doesn't make them Nazis.

Ukrainian users make me repeat the same things again and again.:)

Yesterday I wrote the post, which consisted of 5 items (see here), and I asked: “What item from this post of mine do you deny?”

I have repeated this question, I have written it in blue color, in big letters and in bold print – NO EFFECT!!!

Ukrainian users don’t answer this question of mine.
 

para bellum

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2022
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
699
Points
918
Location
PacNW
Yesterday I wrote the post, which consisted of 5 items (see here), and I asked: “What item from this post of mine do you deny?”
Yes I read the post, that's what I was responding to.

Items 1 and 2 are true- Ukraine does have a law and it includes article 5.

Item 3 is false, it's a complete misrepresentation of article 5 which I posted in it's entirety.

Items 4 and 5 are your own ramblings and have no relevance to Ukraine.
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
16,605
Reaction score
3,202
Points
280
I repeat once again - you are denying something but aren’t saying what are you denying.

Please tell WHAT ITEM from my previous post you deny?

Do you deny the item 2?

Do you deny the item 4?

And so on.
The law does not discriminate among ethnic groups; in fact, it attempts to level the playing field by requiring all groups to learn Ukraine's national language, Ukrainian, so they can compete in the job market and politics more effectively. There is nothing in the law that denies any rights to one group and not to others; these things exist only in your twisted mind.
 
OP
D

Dissident

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
148
Reaction score
41
Points
46
Item 3 is false, it's a complete misrepresentation of article 5 which I posted in it's entirety.

It has no sense to discuss something with persons who constantly lie.

If somebody is interested in the subject of discussion, please open the Ukrainian law in question on the official website of the Ukrainian parliament.

Please find the phrase “Стаття 5. Мова освіти в закладах загальної середньої освіти”.

And please copy item 4 and 6, i.e. copy the following text into Google Translator.

4. Особи, які належать до корінних народів України, мають право здобувати повну загальну середню освіту в державному, комунальному чи корпоративному закладі освіти мовою відповідного корінного народу поряд з державною мовою.

6. Особи, які належать до національних меншин України, мови яких є офіційними мовами Європейського Союзу, та реалізують право на навчання відповідними мовами в державних, комунальних чи корпоративних закладах освіти, здобувають:

базову середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 20 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу у 5 класі із щорічним збільшенням такого обсягу (не менше 40 відсотків у 9 класі);

профільну середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 60 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу.

Особи, які належать до інших національних меншин України, здобувають у державних, комунальних чи корпоративних закладах освіти базову та профільну середню освіту державною мовою в обсязі не менше 80 відсотків річного обсягу навчального часу.

There is a clear division of ethnic minorities into 3 categories.

Ethnic minorities which are recognized as indigenous peoples - in Ukraine they are only Crimean Tatars, Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks - have more rights.

Ethnic minorities, whose languages are official languages of the European Union - e.g. ethnic Hungarians or Romanians - have less rights than so-called indigenous peoples, but have more rights than ethnic minorities, whose languages are not official languages of the European Union - i.e. they have more rights than Russians, Belarusans etc.
 

💲 Amazon Deals 💲

Forum List

Top