Why do the God-haters persist?

[BreezeWood]

No one is without sin. No not one.

you are anotherone who should have known better than to have read that book ... JC was chosen because he was without sin, and is the underlying message to all the Prophecies.

Admission to the Everlasting, one way or the other is available only to the sinless.

.

 

[Boss]

The article references a peer reviewed article that I cited in my post.
The brain does show the way people have empathy from a purely physiological mechanism.

Again, "articles" are never "peer reviewed" if we're speaking in context of "peer reviewed science." A research study or theory might be peer reviewed, but it simply doesn't matter anyway because how the brain physiologically causes people to have empathy, doesn't tell us what drives and motivates that characteristic. I'm asking you how a Waldorf salad is made and you're pointing at tree and saying, "APPLES!"

Not at all.
It shows that spirit land can be located in the brain. What drives it IS that part of the brain. It is a mechanism.

Nonsense. It shows no such thing. If your claim were true, we'd all be Stepford Wives. Instead, our consciences are very different. In this very thread you have people who believe their conscience is guided by their soul or spirit, while you don't believe that. You have certain people who's conscience would have no problem doing certain things while others could never bring themselves to do such things. It's not a "mechanism in the brain" controlling that, it's your soul or spirit.

Just like adrenalin can make you feel energized and endorphins can make you feel joy or tranquility. You don't then ask what exterior force causes that. They ARE the cause.

I've never been asking "what causes" anything. You keep misinterpreting that and I keep correcting you. I want to know what DRIVES that. What GUIDES it. I don't know how else to get that across to you, I've explained it numerous times, drew analogies, gave examples... did everything but break out the coloring books and play dough. I guess you're just not capable of understanding my question because you're still avoiding it.

"This capacity likely evolved because it served our ancestors’ survival in two ways. First, like every mammal, we need to be sensitive to the needs of our offspring. Second, our species depends on cooperation, which means that we do better if we are surrounded by healthy, capable group mates. Taking care of them is just a matter of enlightened self-interest."

This is called an "opinion" and it's not science but a philosophical belief. I disagree with it.

I think this capacity evolved because our conscience is driven by our spirit and soul, the intrinsic inspiration derived from something greater than self. You don't believe in souls, therefore, you believe (as I said before) this is guided by a self-established and totally unaccountable sense of personal morality... or as this quote puts it, "enlightened self-interest."

Now what does this all mean with regard to your capacity to love, have empathy, sympathy, apathy and compassion? It means your expressions of these things are rooted fundamentally in self-interest, while mine and those who have souls, are rooted in selfless obedience to a greater power.

 

[Boss]

You toss aroud terms such as “spirits” and “souls”, yet you’re unable to define these terms without resorting to silly retreats to bizarre and ludicrous sidesteps and waffles.
You have no explanation for "spirits" or "souls" because the claims are undemonstrated and without merit. Obviously, you can describe no properties and characteristics for that which does not exist.

On the other hand, I can explain the phenomenon of personality and where that comes from. The human sense of self is a higher brain function and it's seen in comparably lesser degrees in lesser animals. Not surprisingly, humans are not the only creatures with a sense of "self"). This clearly demonstrates that "selfhood" is a natural phenomenon linked to higher brain functions. Or, are you going to suggest that your gods have made monkeys and men with a “spirit” or “soul” each?

Personality is a phenomenon of the brain and can be directly traced and measured by way of chemical reactions in the brain. Remove sections (or damage sections), of the brain or change the way the brain operates with psychoactive drugs and the "self" changes as well.

All the mumbo-jumbo you spew about “spirits” and “souls” is nonsense because those “spirits” or “souls” cannot override damaging impact or chemical alteration to the brain and the change in personality that attends those.

Sweetie, you're welcome to offer your hypothesis on what drives human conscience as well. Explaining how chemical processes happen in the brain to enable such ability in humans isn't doing that. I think we all understand how the brain works, that's not at issue here.

And yep... you can take the wheels off the Caddy or pour sugar in the gas tank and it's doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, it's not going anywhere. The soul and spirit merely drive the conscience, if the brain is not properly functioning the conscience is essentially useless.

Well, sweetie, I had a strong suspicion you would turn and run when presented with data that refutes your unsupported opinions.

And yes, you can offer all the pointless comments about General Motors cars and sugar in the tank but do you really think that such sidesteps offer any meaningful defense to your claims to supernaturalism?

Abstract and material concepts require a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply inventing abstract ideas such as “spirits” and “souls” and not submitting any case to support them.

All your silliness about “spirits” and “souls” and so on resides only in the brain. Damage the brain or alter the brains activity with drugs and away goes your “spirits” and “souls”.

I've not turned and run away from anything, you must be hallucinating. All you did was give a very elementary summary of how the brain operates, which we already knew. The question of what drives and guides your conscience was not answered.

I can't comprehend why you keep wanting to call spirituality "supernaturalism" when it's clearly a part of human nature. It's as much a part of man as our ability think... are thoughts supernatural? How about love? Is that supernatural?

And again, our souls and spirit do not have some omnipotent ability to overcome physical obstruction. They can only manifest guidance to our conscience if our conscience is properly operational. I guess you are trying to infer the power of God into our souls or something... kind of like arguing a light bulb should be like the power company.

 

[BreezeWood]

thebrucebeat: Not at all.
It shows that spirit land can be located in the brain. What drives it IS that part of the brain. It is a mechanism.

there is both Fauna and Flora, hopefully since you at least acknowledge "spirit land" you recognize its existence and certainly for at least the living, of which Flora has no recognizable "Brain" as you refer to it and would then exclude your contention of a physiological origin to the Spirit exhibited by all of Gods creatures.

.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Again, "articles" are never "peer reviewed" if we're speaking in context of "peer reviewed science." A research study or theory might be peer reviewed, but it simply doesn't matter anyway because how the brain physiologically causes people to have empathy, doesn't tell us what drives and motivates that characteristic. I'm asking you how a Waldorf salad is made and you're pointing at tree and saying, "APPLES!"

Not at all.
It shows that spirit land can be located in the brain. What drives it IS that part of the brain. It is a mechanism.

Nonsense. It shows no such thing. If your claim were true, we'd all be Stepford Wives. Instead, our consciences are very different. In this very thread you have people who believe their conscience is guided by their soul or spirit, while you don't believe that. You have certain people who's conscience would have no problem doing certain things while others could never bring themselves to do such things. It's not a "mechanism in the brain" controlling that, it's your soul or spirit.

Just like adrenalin can make you feel energized and endorphins can make you feel joy or tranquility. You don't then ask what exterior force causes that. They ARE the cause.

I've never been asking "what causes" anything. You keep misinterpreting that and I keep correcting you. I want to know what DRIVES that. What GUIDES it. I don't know how else to get that across to you, I've explained it numerous times, drew analogies, gave examples... did everything but break out the coloring books and play dough. I guess you're just not capable of understanding my question because you're still avoiding it.

"This capacity likely evolved because it served our ancestors’ survival in two ways. First, like every mammal, we need to be sensitive to the needs of our offspring. Second, our species depends on cooperation, which means that we do better if we are surrounded by healthy, capable group mates. Taking care of them is just a matter of enlightened self-interest."

This is called an "opinion" and it's not science but a philosophical belief. I disagree with it.

I think this capacity evolved because our conscience is driven by our spirit and soul, the intrinsic inspiration derived from something greater than self. You don't believe in souls, therefore, you believe (as I said before) this is guided by a self-established and totally unaccountable sense of personal morality... or as this quote puts it, "enlightened self-interest."

Now what does this all mean with regard to your capacity to love, have empathy, sympathy, apathy and compassion? It means your expressions of these things are rooted fundamentally in self-interest, while mine and those who have souls, are rooted in selfless obedience to a greater power.

We can do this forever.
I will cite papers, studies, all kinds of evidence, and you can come back with the enlightening "Well, I don't think so, and if you just believe me I'll prove it to you".
One is enlightened self-interest.
The other is ignorant self-interest hoping for the big payoff.

 

[Boss]

We can do this forever.
I will cite papers, studies, all kinds of evidence, and you can come back with the enlightening "Well, I don't think so, and if you just believe me I'll prove it to you".
One is enlightened self-interest.
The other is ignorant self-interest hoping for the big payoff.

Yes, we can do this forever. You can continue to cite opinion pieces that are not science, and I will continue to point out that I disagree with their opinions.

One is enlightened self-interest, the other is the intrinsic connection to something greater than self which mankind has possessed its entire existence. We've been over your "ignorance" claims before as well, if it were superficial and ignorant, the attribute would have never taken off in man, we would have abandoned it before anyone ever conceived of religions. The fact that man is fundamentally tied to this for all our existence is evidence that it's fundamental to the species.

 

[thebrucebeat]

We can do this forever.
I will cite papers, studies, all kinds of evidence, and you can come back with the enlightening "Well, I don't think so, and if you just believe me I'll prove it to you".
One is enlightened self-interest.
The other is ignorant self-interest hoping for the big payoff.

Yes, we can do this forever. You can continue to cite opinion pieces that are not science, and I will continue to point out that I disagree with their opinions.

One is enlightened self-interest, the other is the intrinsic connection to something greater than self which mankind has possessed its entire existence. We've been over your "ignorance" claims before as well, if it were superficial and ignorant, the attribute would have never taken off in man, we would have abandoned it before anyone ever conceived of religions. The fact that man is fundamentally tied to this for all our existence is evidence that it's fundamental to the species.

It proves the need for relief, not the veracity of what is believed. It isn't even evidence of the thing believed.
Shall we go down the "rationalization" rabbit hole again, where you don't know a basic psychological term and its overwhelming influence on the ego. Rationalizations are used continuously on a daily basis to justify thoughts and actions to ourselves. They are inescapable, unavoidable and powerful.
You can take a class on it.
Great way to meet freshman girls. Your avatar guy would dig that!

 

[Boss]

It proves the need for relief, not the veracity of what is believed.

Sorry, you need to prove that this phantom "need for relief" is naturally occurring and you can't. No other species of life has been plagued with such a handicap, so where did it evolve from? You can't tell us because it's a speculation without basis. What you perceive as a "need for relief" is actually a result of our being spiritually aware of something immortal.

Rationalizations are used continuously on a daily basis to justify thoughts and actions to ourselves.

Yes, and they are both positive and negative. Some are legitimate and some are false. They are simply the product and result of rational thought. This has nothing to do with the question at hand.

 

[thebrucebeat]

It proves the need for relief, not the veracity of what is believed.

Sorry, you need to prove that this phantom "need for relief" is naturally occurring and you can't. No other species of life has been plagued with such a handicap, so where did it evolve from? You can't tell us because it's a speculation without basis. What you perceive as a "need for relief" is actually a result of our being spiritually aware of something immortal.

Rationalizations are used continuously on a daily basis to justify thoughts and actions to ourselves.

Yes, and they are both positive and negative. Some are legitimate and some are false. They are simply the product and result of rational thought. This has nothing to do with the question at hand.

It has everything to do with it and I will be glad to beat you down again with the definition of rationalization from as many sources as you like so you can once again be humiliated by knowing nothing of the tem which is basic in an intro Psych. class. The term does NOT refer to the simple product of rational thought. Why would you want this humiliation again? It put the nail in the coffin of your PhD. lie the last time when out of your embarrassment you tried to make up the term "false rationalization" which can not be found in a search as used by professionals or in common parlance.
Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.
Your spiritual masturbation is what is without basis.

 

[Boss]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

 

[MrMax]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

Wow! This must be the web's most intelligent chat board! I was just on another thread where toro was saying that he lectured at a university. I feel so honored to be debating with against such a distinguished crowd.

You still haven't proven anything about your theory about spiritual nature. Spiritual awareness is nothing more than a more evolved brain rationalizing its fear of death.

 

[thanatos144]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

Wow! This must be the web's most intelligent chat board! I was just on another thread where toro was saying that he lectured at a university. I feel so honored to be debating with against such a distinguished crowd.

You still haven't proven anything about your theory about spiritual nature. Spiritual awareness is nothing more than a more evolved brain rationalizing its fear of death.

Prove God doesn't exist......

 

[MrMax]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

Wow! This must be the web's most intelligent chat board! I was just on another thread where toro was saying that he lectured at a university. I feel so honored to be debating with against such a distinguished crowd.

You still haven't proven anything about your theory about spiritual nature. Spiritual awareness is nothing more than a more evolved brain rationalizing its fear of death.

Prove God doesn't exist......

I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way. It's really the only logical position to hold.

 

[thanatos144]

Wow! This must be the web's most intelligent chat board! I was just on another thread where toro was saying that he lectured at a university. I feel so honored to be debating with against such a distinguished crowd.

You still haven't proven anything about your theory about spiritual nature. Spiritual awareness is nothing more than a more evolved brain rationalizing its fear of death.

Prove God doesn't exist......

I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way. It's really the only logical position to hold.

No it isn't. Logic isn't the absence of belief or faith.

 

[MrMax]

Prove God doesn't exist......

I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way. It's really the only logical position to hold.

No it isn't. Logic isn't the absence of belief or faith.

There's no real proof that a god exists, and there's no real proof that one couldn't exist. Pretty simple really.

 

[thanatos144]

I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way. It's really the only logical position to hold.

No it isn't. Logic isn't the absence of belief or faith.

There's no real proof that a god exists, and there's no real proof that one couldn't exist. Pretty simple really.

Proof that God exists is everywhere. Humans are proof God exists. Some just wish to ignore that proof.

 

[MrMax]

No it isn't. Logic isn't the absence of belief or faith.

There's no real proof that a god exists, and there's no real proof that one couldn't exist. Pretty simple really.

Proof that God exists is everywhere. Humans are proof God exists. Some just wish to ignore that proof.

Your standards for proof are non-existant. All you really have are suppositions.

 

[thanatos144]

There's no real proof that a god exists, and there's no real proof that one couldn't exist. Pretty simple really.

Proof that God exists is everywhere. Humans are proof God exists. Some just wish to ignore that proof.

Your standards for proof are non-existant. All you really have are suppositions.

Are you saying a tree doesn't exist? Or DNA?

 

[thebrucebeat]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

I gave you six definitions last time, all conforming with what I am saying, including one from a psychology dictionary. None from Ask.com by the way. All major dictionaries and sources specific to psychology.
How many do you want this time?
Well, we have gone from a PhD. to a Bachelors in one quick hurry. Did the guilt of you being a fraud finally catch up to you? Probably the Spiritual Nature working on your conscience.
Oh wait! It doesn't care about you personally. I forgot.
As for insults, you and your vulgarities (which I am sure used to make your academic mentors proud) kind of lead the pack on these boards for that.
You want to put me on ignore to save yourself further embarrassment, and that is probably a good idea. You can't handle my arguments, which I support with data and research and you just finally descend to name calling when you are revealed as an unskilled laborer in the field of critical thinking.
As to where does this empathic nature evolve from? We see it in lesser degrees in the animal kingdom. Chimps show it, lions and even whales to a lesser degree. In man it is a larger part of the brain and is more pronounced. The development of that part of the brain would have been naturally selected for as working together as a group had a greater chance of survival than having everyone and everything being an enemy. If it is survival of the fittest, what made us more fit was empathy and a collective mindset.
The part of the brain can be shown. It has been identified. The process of evolution for it to be more pronounced in man is understood. The reason nature might select it becomes obvious. This is discussed in the articles I have already posted and the many more I can crush you with.
What have you got?
"We'll, I don't think so!"
Go ahead and declare your victory now, and then put me on ignore.
I will still embarrass you, but at least you won't have to see it and you can create a rationalization that tells yourself you are intelligent, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Hollie]

I've about had it with your insults. If the mods aren't going to take action against your flaming, I am going to just put you on ignore and be done with you for good. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a double major in psychology and business and was near the top of my class. I know full well what "rationalization" means and any dictionary you care to look in will give you numerous and varied definitions. You have gone on now for a month about this word, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge but one single cherry-picked definition which you seem to believe is the only possible definition for "rationalize." My professor would have flunked you on that basis alone in the first semester. We actually had a question about this on an exam, where many people got the answer wrong because they believed like you, and like the morons at Ask.com and elsewhere, that "rationalize" only can mean one thing. You didn't put any nail in any coffin, you just demonstrated what an obtuse little moronic twit you are. And you continue to do so.

Where did the need for relief from fear evolve from? The greater awareness the human brain is capable of of his surroundings, his future, his mortality and the unknown.

You did not answer the damn question. You stated a fact that any moron already knew. Where did this "greater awareness" evolve from? Monkeys? Gorillas? Why don't they show need for relief from fears? Basically, all I am getting out of you is that humans have "something special" in our brains... well yeah, we have spiritual awareness! We comprehend our mortality because we are intrinsically aware of immortality.

Wow! This must be the web's most intelligent chat board! I was just on another thread where toro was saying that he lectured at a university. I feel so honored to be debating with against such a distinguished crowd.

You still haven't proven anything about your theory about spiritual nature. Spiritual awareness is nothing more than a more evolved brain rationalizing its fear of death.

Prove God doesn't exist......

I have proof that god doesn't exist. Prove I don't.