Why do the God-haters persist?

[hobelim]

I hear what you're saying, but here "it is about cause and effect, action and consequence." you seem to be still talking about a god that's needy and wants to be obeyed.

It may seem that way to you but, if you had a child and you said "do not touch the stove or you will burn your finger" would you say it because you were needy and wanted to be obeyed?

If the child did not listen and touched the stove and burned his finger would it be a punishment from you?

Ok, let's see if I can squeeze any sense out of this.

So you're saying that god himself tells you what not to do? And if you disobey he'll make sure you get burned?
Because if it were my kid, I'd stop him from getting burned, whether he understood or not.

Only someone who never raised a child to adulthood would say something like that.

 

[Montrovant]

It may seem that way to you but, if you had a child and you said "do not touch the stove or you will burn your finger" would you say it because you were needy and wanted to be obeyed?

If the child did not listen and touched the stove and burned his finger would it be a punishment from you?

Ok, let's see if I can squeeze any sense out of this.

So you're saying that god himself tells you what not to do? And if you disobey he'll make sure you get burned?
Because if it were my kid, I'd stop him from getting burned, whether he understood or not.

Only someone who never raised a child to adulthood would say something like that.

Or someone more concerned with the health of their child than imparting a lesson through getting a burn.....

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ok, let's see if I can squeeze any sense out of this.

So you're saying that god himself tells you what not to do? And if you disobey he'll make sure you get burned?
Because if it were my kid, I'd stop him from getting burned, whether he understood or not.

Only someone who never raised a child to adulthood would say something like that.

Or someone more concerned with the health of their child than imparting a lesson through getting a burn.....

Kids have a way of getting to the Forbidden Fruit no matter what you do.

Do you have any kids? IF so then you should know what hobilem meant.

Children seem to be proof of free will....and a universe ruled by anarchy.

 

[PostmodernProph]

How did Kangaroo's get their ticket?
And how did they make it back to Australia after the flood?

The core truth to the Noah story is that, IMO, he had some kind of forewarning of the collapse of the Bosporus Straights glacier that then flooded the Black Sea area that he lived in. If Noah had been a subsistence farmer and herder, then he would have essentially saved the animals that he depended on for his livelihood and not literally every freaking animal on the planet.

I don't know anyone but the most extreme Biblical literalists who think Noah literally took in every animal species; the majority of Christ's church does not.

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

and yet the descendants of the survivors speak of the event on every continent where mankind ended up, irrespective of religion.....apparently a very pervasive fiction.......

 

[hobelim]

How did Kangaroo's get their ticket?
And how did they make it back to Australia after the flood?

The core truth to the Noah story is that, IMO, he had some kind of forewarning of the collapse of the Bosporus Straights glacier that then flooded the Black Sea area that he lived in. If Noah had been a subsistence farmer and herder, then he would have essentially saved the animals that he depended on for his livelihood and not literally every freaking animal on the planet.

I don't know anyone but the most extreme Biblical literalists who think Noah literally took in every animal species; the majority of Christ's church does not.

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

Fiction does not equal false. Many works of fiction are based entirely on fact and many completely fabricated stories covey teaching and truth.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The core truth to the Noah story is that, IMO, he had some kind of forewarning of the collapse of the Bosporus Straights glacier that then flooded the Black Sea area that he lived in. If Noah had been a subsistence farmer and herder, then he would have essentially saved the animals that he depended on for his livelihood and not literally every freaking animal on the planet.

I don't know anyone but the most extreme Biblical literalists who think Noah literally took in every animal species; the majority of Christ's church does not.

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

and yet the descendants of the survivors speak of the event on every continent where mankind ended up, irrespective of religion.....apparently a very pervasive fiction.......

Or there is the third option. A real event occurred and the people told the story based on their world view and understanding that today seems erroneous.

But does anyone expect these atheist ideologues to really discern anything if it is inconvenient to their ideology? Well, you shouldn't. They are liars for a reason.

 

[hobelim]

Ok, let's see if I can squeeze any sense out of this.

So you're saying that god himself tells you what not to do? And if you disobey he'll make sure you get burned?
Because if it were my kid, I'd stop him from getting burned, whether he understood or not.

Only someone who never raised a child to adulthood would say something like that.

Or someone more concerned with the health of their child than imparting a lesson through getting a burn.....

Did you never hear anyone tell you that you can't believe everything you hear? Did you never hear anyone say 'buyer beware"?

Did you never disregard those warnings and learn a lesson by getting burned?

A lesson that can be learned here without any danger to health is that whatever the churches teach that hell is has nothing whatever to do with what Jesus meant by Gehenna.

 

[Boss]

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

Not to defend the Bible here, but there are something like 227 cultural stories of a great flood from nearly every ancient civilization. Also, I saw a guy draw a graph once... it showed the estimated population on earth today, 1,000 years ago and 2,000 years ago... following the trend back, this put the zero point somewhere around 3,000 BCE. Interestingly enough, about the time most scholars estimate for the great flood. Fossil records seem to also confirm this, as they have found things like sea shells on top of Mt. Everest and whale bones in the deserts.

What is really odd is that we know humans have existed much longer, way before 3,000 BCE. But that is where the graph line takes us, and that seems to be where written history began. If you take the measurements of the arc from the Bible, consider they didn't need the aquatic life or plant life, insects would have hitched a ride on the wood and various animals, and you do accept the concept of microevolution, it's plausible that such a vessel could have held up to 100k different land-based species, which spawned the current array of land-based species we see today.

Now, does all of this prove something beyond any shaddow of doubt? No, but I think it does present some substantial evidence that has to be objectively considered. It's not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe you should go make your own thread. Boss made this one and has been pretty clear from the beginning that he doesn't follow any organized religion. It seems kind of strange to come into a thread started by someone who doesn't believe in a religion and say you don't want to talk to anyone who has spiritual but not religious beliefs.

Well good point. But you see, the theists are all over the place. Do you believe in god? Christianity? Muslim? Jewish? Mormon? Jehova? Born again? Do you take the bible literally or do you not? Do you believe in hell? Do you believe the stories in the bible actually happened? Do you believe miracles happen? Do you believe god is watching you and cares about you? Did he make us in his image? Do angels exist? Is Lucifer a real person? I could go on and on. Ask 100 different theists these questions and you'll get 100 different replies. No standard. This is one of the reasons you know its bullshit.

Do you think Boss has proven god exists? Explain his position back to me then.

And the thread is why do god haters persist. We persist because ignorance while maybe bliss is not good for society. PERIOD! And as Gismys would say, AND YOU? ONLY A FOOL!!!

Well of course there's no standard! People can hardly agree on things based on the physical, there's certainly no reason to expect agreement on something without objective evidence.

No, I don't think Boss has proven god exists. I never claimed he did. That's particularly clear since I've stated more than once that I don't believe in god; if he'd proved god exists, I would believe, wouldn't I?

There is no single reason why Boss's supposed 'god-haters' persist. Besides the fact the premise is extremely flawed, as with anything, you will rarely get consensus from any reasonably large group of people.

You bring up a good point. Why do we persist? Because it is an insane notion and from the looks of this planet it doesn't seem to be doing much good. And not just Christians but all theists like the muslims and jews. How are they doing? Not so good? Maybe if they didn't believe in fairy tales they'd evolve beyond war? Scientifically war makes no sense. Ultimately you're going to negotiate. All that murder just to hope for the upper hand at the negotiating table? Is that the best the UN can do? Isn't every country in the UN a god fearing nation? Yea, god sucks.

A lot of christians wish they could spread christianity to the rest of the world. How's it doing in China?

Eastern Lightning is a millennial Chinese Christian sect

Eastern Lightning: Alleged kidnappings, murder and a female Christ - CNN.com

So these christians walk around trying to spread "the truth" and if you don't give them your contact information they murder you?

 

[sealybobo]

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

Not to defend the Bible here, but there are something like 227 cultural stories of a great flood from nearly every ancient civilization. Also, I saw a guy draw a graph once... it showed the estimated population on earth today, 1,000 years ago and 2,000 years ago... following the trend back, this put the zero point somewhere around 3,000 BCE. Interestingly enough, about the time most scholars estimate for the great flood. Fossil records seem to also confirm this, as they have found things like sea shells on top of Mt. Everest and whale bones in the deserts.

What is really odd is that we know humans have existed much longer, way before 3,000 BCE. But that is where the graph line takes us, and that seems to be where written history began. If you take the measurements of the arc from the Bible, consider they didn't need the aquatic life or plant life, insects would have hitched a ride on the wood and various animals, and you do accept the concept of microevolution, it's plausible that such a vessel could have held up to 100k different land-based species, which spawned the current array of land-based species we see today.

Now, does all of this prove something beyond any shaddow of doubt? No, but I think it does present some substantial evidence that has to be objectively considered. It's not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch.

We just had a great flood here in Metro Detroit. Something like 5 inches in 1 hour. In 10 years it'll be 20 inches. I'm sure with all those glaciers melting they had some floods too. But to collect 2 of every animals?

Actually today we record history. Those monkeys weren't even smart enough to document it and pass that history down so that today it is recorded historic fact.

Anyways, I'm starting to lighten up. I get it that you want to believe no matter how little evidence you have and I don't believe no matter how much my heart wishes it were all true. That's cool. I like debating this stuff. And I do hope one day we get rid of god in public. Get it out of politics.

And by the way, why do we persist? Because you guys brought it into politics. So if you want to use god as a reason to vote for the GOP, I want people to know god doesn't even exist. Because as I've said many times before, no one poor or middle class should be voting GOP based on economics. The GOP only benefits the rich economically. That's a fact. Trickle down never works. We need a wealthy middle class not all the money going to the top. The economy works better when the middle class has more money. The GOP don't like that. FACT. Anyways, so you guys only vote GOP because of god, gays, guns or racism. Either that or you truly believe tea baggers/libertarians/conservativism really works. It could be possible you truly believe conservative economics work but trust me they don't.

But if I can't prove to you that your invisible friend isn't real how am I going to convince you of anything in politics?

Oh and I do tie religion and politics together. No doubt the GOP has used god to win you over at least to some degree. For example abortion. I'm sure you hate abortion. I see it as a necessary evil. In fact all those kids at the border from s. America should have been aborted. If not go adopt one right now.

 

[sealybobo]

little man! keepyour silly ideas and opinions as they are utter foolishness!!! HOW TRUE GOD'S WORD IS=ETERNAL TRUTH!!18 I know very well how foolish it sounds to those who are lost, when they hear that Jesus died to save them. But we who are saved* recognize this message as the very power of God. 19 For God says, “I will destroy all human plans of salvation no matter how wise they seem to be, and ignore the best ideas of men, even the most brilliant of them.”

20 So what about these wise men, these scholars, these brilliant debaters of this world’s great affairs? God has made them all look foolish and shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. 21 For God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find God through human brilliance, and then he stepped in and saved all those who believed his message, which the world calls foolish and silly. 22 It seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven as proof that what is preached is true; and it is foolish to the Gentiles because they believe only what agrees with their philosophy and seems wise to them. 23 So when we preach about Christ dying to save them, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power of God to save them; Christ himself is the center of God’s wise plan for their salvation. 25 This so-called “foolish” plan of God is far wiser than the wisest plan of the wisest man, and God in his weakness—Christ dying on the cross—is far stronger than any man.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25

What makes you think the words you quote as being the truth? Some book told you so.

SO YOU DON'T KNOW TRUTH WHEN YOU READ OR HEAR IT??????????? WELL I DO!!!and you??

Just don't get too carried away like these christians in China who go around talking a lot like you sound. Hey boss. Here are some more theists adding to your sides list of muder/death/kills. Doing great god.

Eastern Lightning: Alleged kidnappings, murder and a female Christ - CNN.com

"Go to hell, demon," one of the accused, Zhang Lidong, yelled as he beat the woman with a steel mop handle, telling her she would "never come back in the next reincarnation."

Other members of the group threatened diners that they would kill anyone who intervened, reported Chinese state media.

By the time police arrived at the fast food outlet in the city of Zhaoyuan, in the eastern Chinese province of Shandong, they found the victim, a 37-year-old mother named Wu Shuoyan, lying in a pool of blood.
Zhang was kicking and stomping her while a boy beat her with the mop handle, state media reported; within the hour, she was pronounced dead at a local hospital.
Five adults have been charged, along with a minor, with murder over the May 28 attack -- Zhang Lidong, Zhang Fan, Lyu Yingchun, Zhang Hang, Zhang Qiaolian. They are all members of the Church of Almighty God

"She was a demon," he said, telling the interviewer that he and his co-accused were members of the church. "She was an evil spirit."
Authorities said the accused were likely gathering the phone numbers to find potential new recruits when Wu's refusal angered them, state media reported.

Also known as Eastern Lightning ("Dongfang Shandian"), the group preaches that Christ has been reincarnated as a woman from central China, and that the righteous are engaged in an apocalyptic struggle against China's Communist Party -- which they refer to as the "great red dragon."

Sounds like the Mormon's bullshit story. So now there have been 1001 religions

 

[Boss]

A lot of christians wish they could spread christianity to the rest of the world. How's it doing in China?

Eastern Lightning is a millennial Chinese Christian sect

Eastern Lightning: Alleged kidnappings, murder and a female Christ - CNN.com

So these christians walk around trying to spread "the truth" and if you don't give them your contact information they murder you?

For every story you can find like that, I can give you ten to twenty like this:

 

[PostmodernProph]

A lot of christians wish they could spread christianity to the rest of the world. How's it doing in China?

Eastern Lightning is a millennial Chinese Christian sect

Eastern Lightning: Alleged kidnappings, murder and a female Christ - CNN.com

So these christians walk around trying to spread "the truth" and if you don't give them your contact information they murder you?

For every story you can find like that, I can give you ten to twenty like this:

Irony....I clicked the button to watch on You Tube and the ad that preceeded it was Heiniken Beer's "would you answer the call?".......an ad where they were looking for the person willing to answer a payphone and then walk across the street to meet the person on the line, with a night of prizes and notoriety given to those willing to act without proof.......

 

[Boss]

Silly boob: And by the way, why do we persist? Because you guys brought it into politics.

My daughter is like me, she isn't afraid to speak her mind and she doesn't take shit off of anybody. In college, a professor gave her an assignment once, they had to pick a social issue and write an essay opposing it. She picked abortion. After everyone picked their topic, the professor then instructed them they could not use any religious context in their arguments. Well, my chip off the ol' block daughter protested... How exactly are you supposed to formulate an argument and not base it on your religious moral beliefs? Virtually everything about your beliefs on any topic is rooted in your religious belief or lack of religious belief.

What you are asking is akin to what the professor was asking, and it's just not possible. We can't separate ourselves from our own convictions. Virtually every law is based on a religiously-rooted concept at some point and to some degree. It goes back to my argument about dismissing laws against public masturbation, or marrying children. Now you can claim this violates someone's rights or is detrimental to children or whatever, but the root basis is a religious construct. When you debase morality, that's exactly what you get... debased morality.

We have a 1st Amendment right in this country for a reason, and that is to protect our religious freedoms, to be able to express our religious beliefs without persecution. You cannot silence these opinions any more than you can silence the opinions of the atheist. It's a fundamental right that must be protected.

By the way, my daughter won her argument. The professor modified her criteria to indicate the essay couldn't contain specific religious arguments or scriptural references, but it could be based on religious convictions and beliefs.

 

[Boss]

A lot of christians wish they could spread christianity to the rest of the world. How's it doing in China?

Eastern Lightning is a millennial Chinese Christian sect

Eastern Lightning: Alleged kidnappings, murder and a female Christ - CNN.com

So these christians walk around trying to spread "the truth" and if you don't give them your contact information they murder you?

For every story you can find like that, I can give you ten to twenty like this:

Irony....I clicked the button to watch on You Tube and the ad that preceeded it was Heiniken Beer's "would you answer the call?".......an ad where they were looking for the person willing to answer a payphone and then walk across the street to meet the person on the line, with a night of prizes and notoriety given to those willing to act without proof.......

Well.... The Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?

 

[BreezeWood]

How did Kangaroo's get their ticket?
And how did they make it back to Australia after the flood?

The core truth to the Noah story is that, IMO, he had some kind of forewarning of the collapse of the Bosporus Straights glacier that then flooded the Black Sea area that he lived in. If Noah had been a subsistence farmer and herder, then he would have essentially saved the animals that he depended on for his livelihood and not literally every freaking animal on the planet.

I don't know anyone but the most extreme Biblical literalists who think Noah literally took in every animal species; the majority of Christ's church does not.

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

it is close to say "everyone" and that is the message of the religion for future posterity, irregardless the biblical accounts.

.

 

[Slyhunter]

The bible says God flooded the world and killed everyone. If that's not true that makes it a work of fiction.

and yet the descendants of the survivors speak of the event on every continent where mankind ended up, irrespective of religion.....apparently a very pervasive fiction.......

Or there is the third option. A real event occurred and the people told the story based on their world view and understanding that today seems erroneous.

But does anyone expect these atheist ideologues to really discern anything if it is inconvenient to their ideology? Well, you shouldn't. They are liars for a reason.

What reason are they liars?
What proof you think every single one of them is a liar?

 

[Montrovant]

Only someone who never raised a child to adulthood would say something like that.

Or someone more concerned with the health of their child than imparting a lesson through getting a burn.....

Kids have a way of getting to the Forbidden Fruit no matter what you do.

Do you have any kids? IF so then you should know what hobilem meant.

Children seem to be proof of free will....and a universe ruled by anarchy.

I don't have any of my own children, but I have been a nanny to a 5 year old since she was born. I would never let her touch a hot stove. I've stopped her from doing so more than once. Why? I think the risk of injury is greater than the reward of learning not to touch the stove through pain.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well good point. But you see, the theists are all over the place. Do you believe in god? Christianity? Muslim? Jewish? Mormon? Jehova? Born again? Do you take the bible literally or do you not? Do you believe in hell? Do you believe the stories in the bible actually happened? Do you believe miracles happen? Do you believe god is watching you and cares about you? Did he make us in his image? Do angels exist? Is Lucifer a real person? I could go on and on. Ask 100 different theists these questions and you'll get 100 different replies. No standard. This is one of the reasons you know its bullshit.

Do you think Boss has proven god exists? Explain his position back to me then.

And the thread is why do god haters persist. We persist because ignorance while maybe bliss is not good for society. PERIOD! And as Gismys would say, AND YOU? ONLY A FOOL!!!

Well of course there's no standard! People can hardly agree on things based on the physical, there's certainly no reason to expect agreement on something without objective evidence.

No, I don't think Boss has proven god exists. I never claimed he did. That's particularly clear since I've stated more than once that I don't believe in god; if he'd proved god exists, I would believe, wouldn't I?

There is no single reason why Boss's supposed 'god-haters' persist. Besides the fact the premise is extremely flawed, as with anything, you will rarely get consensus from any reasonably large group of people.

You bring up a good point. Why do we persist? Because it is an insane notion

lol, you stupid ******* liar.

So Aristotle, Plato, Copernicus, Galileo, Isaac Newton, LeMaire and all the believing scientists are insane because you stamp your little foot and insist it so?

Go **** yourself, cretin.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Or someone more concerned with the health of their child than imparting a lesson through getting a burn.....

Kids have a way of getting to the Forbidden Fruit no matter what you do.

Do you have any kids? IF so then you should know what hobilem meant.

Children seem to be proof of free will....and a universe ruled by anarchy.

I don't have any of my own children, but I have been a nanny to a 5 year old since she was born. I would never let her touch a hot stove. I've stopped her from doing so more than once. Why? I think the risk of injury is greater than the reward of learning not to touch the stove through pain.

If you had your own children and had to do things other than just watch them, you would find out that it is impossible to get them to mind 100% of the time.

It is far better for them to learn to trust you when you say no than it is to hover over them 24/7. They will get over a widdle burnypooo. But them learning to trust you and keep that trust into their teen years may save their lives.