Why do the God-haters persist?

[GISMYS]

GOD HATERS NEED TO FACE TRUTH=== The man who finds life will find it through trusting God.

18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

21 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead.
Romans 1:17-22

 

[Boss]

You've shown me nothing nada zero zilch. You believe because man has always believed and you have this silly notions about spirituality.

I'm not claiming God is a proven scientific fact and you just refuse to accept the evidence. That's the argument you want to make against God and you've not presented any evidence. When I point that detail out, you lament that I haven't proven God exists. Round and round we go. Look... the fact that I haven't given you sufficient proof of God's existence, doesn't mean that you've proven God doesn't exist. You stated that I am denying all the facts and evidence, but you've not presented any facts or evidence. If you have some, present it! If not, stop claiming you've presented it!

And you haven't shot anything I've said down other than in your own head. I've given you pretty much the standard atheist come backs to all the things that theists usually say but I have to say you have a very wild imagination and are able to pick and choose the parts of religion you like and throw away the parts you don't like. How lovely you can do that and in your head you are right. It must be nice. I hear ignorance is bliss so you must be really happy.

Oh, but I have shot down every supposition made by you and your atheist blog. You claim that man invented God, but there is no scientific evidence to support that belief. Archeology suggests that's just not true. The biology of animal behavior also doesn't lend any support. You claim it was to "explain the unknown" but God doesn't explain the unknown, science does. You claim it is to "console fears" but nothing else in nature has this problem, not to mention the utter absurdity that you can somehow console fear with something totally of the imagination. Nothing else in nature grapples with it's mortality. We only do so because we are aware of immortality, through spiritual connection. You've provided nothing to refute that because you can't.

90% of humans being spiritual isn't proof of God, but even Darwin would contend it does mean something significant to the species if it's THAT fundamental to the general behavior. You can present n example of behavior in any living thing, across 90% of the species, which has no relevance whatsoever.

As for religion, I don't subscribe to religions. I believe they are man-made incarnations prompted by our spiritual connection to something greater. They are clearly evidence that man does make some kind of metaphysical connection to something greater. Humans are spiritually connected, always have been, always will be. If you don't like that, I am sorry... just a fact of life.

You show me your evidence that humans didn't make up god that instead they had sound, reasonable, rational, logical reasons for making up god.

Because either they made it up or you're saying god visited them.

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.

And the proof I have they made it up is that I am over 40 years old and I've seen no proof. So either you are suggesting god spoke with them or they are like you, just another idiot who has his own definition of god and his own personal relationship.

Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.

I'm not being rude. I was just like you. I use to talk to god too. I woke up. Won't you?

Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.

In fact you freak, you claim god talks to you and you talk to god. If that is how god talked to them back 10,000 years ago when they invented the idea of god, then that is my proof it is all ******* made up, because aint no god talking to you just like when I was JUST LIKE YOU and I had a "personal relationship" with god. All Greeks think they have a personal relationship with god. That is unless they are smart enough to realize they are just talking to themselves.

Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.

So no god talked to the original man. How do I know? Because no god talked to adam and eve, noah, mosus, budda, mohammad, joseph smith or you.

But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.

What does my site prove? That scientifically all the organized religions are BULLSHIT. You agree with my site on that. Ok then lets move on. You also agree there is no proof a god exists. And then you try to redefine god, just like my site said you would. I swear if there are 50 points that site makes, 45 of them answer all of your come backs. The come backs you think are so slick. You're just another confused christian buddy. You're just like me when I left Christianity. It isn't that much of a leap once you realize the whole thing is made up to come to the conclusion that your uneducated ape ancestors just made it up.

You want proof? Just you asking me for proof still makes you an ignorant ****. Lets get in my time machine and go back and see. ******* fool. Science says you are 99.999 probably wrong. Agnostic Atheism.

Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not claiming God is a proven scientific fact and you just refuse to accept the evidence. That's the argument you want to make against God and you've not presented any evidence. When I point that detail out, you lament that I haven't proven God exists. Round and round we go. Look... the fact that I haven't given you sufficient proof of God's existence, doesn't mean that you've proven God doesn't exist. You stated that I am denying all the facts and evidence, but you've not presented any facts or evidence. If you have some, present it! If not, stop claiming you've presented it!



Oh, but I have shot down every supposition made by you and your atheist blog. You claim that man invented God, but there is no scientific evidence to support that belief. Archeology suggests that's just not true. The biology of animal behavior also doesn't lend any support. You claim it was to "explain the unknown" but God doesn't explain the unknown, science does. You claim it is to "console fears" but nothing else in nature has this problem, not to mention the utter absurdity that you can somehow console fear with something totally of the imagination. Nothing else in nature grapples with it's mortality. We only do so because we are aware of immortality, through spiritual connection. You've provided nothing to refute that because you can't.

90% of humans being spiritual isn't proof of God, but even Darwin would contend it does mean something significant to the species if it's THAT fundamental to the general behavior. You can present n example of behavior in any living thing, across 90% of the species, which has no relevance whatsoever.

As for religion, I don't subscribe to religions. I believe they are man-made incarnations prompted by our spiritual connection to something greater. They are clearly evidence that man does make some kind of metaphysical connection to something greater. Humans are spiritually connected, always have been, always will be. If you don't like that, I am sorry... just a fact of life.

You show me your evidence that humans didn't make up god that instead they had sound, reasonable, rational, logical reasons for making up god.

Because either they made it up or you're saying god visited them.

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.



Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.



Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.



Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.

So no god talked to the original man. How do I know? Because no god talked to adam and eve, noah, mosus, budda, mohammad, joseph smith or you.

But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.

What does my site prove? That scientifically all the organized religions are BULLSHIT. You agree with my site on that. Ok then lets move on. You also agree there is no proof a god exists. And then you try to redefine god, just like my site said you would. I swear if there are 50 points that site makes, 45 of them answer all of your come backs. The come backs you think are so slick. You're just another confused christian buddy. You're just like me when I left Christianity. It isn't that much of a leap once you realize the whole thing is made up to come to the conclusion that your uneducated ape ancestors just made it up.

You want proof? Just you asking me for proof still makes you an ignorant ****. Lets get in my time machine and go back and see. ******* fool. Science says you are 99.999 probably wrong. Agnostic Atheism.

Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

Sorry you can't have it both ways. If you are going to say: "humans have always been able to connect with god, you have to prove that. I say like every other human invention like the wheel or fire, we picked god up somewhere along the way.

Can you tell me when exactly we invented fire? Do you say we always knew how to make fire? No you don't. Well guess what? Scientists say we invented god the same time we invented writing, fire, jewelry, painting and the wheel. NOT before.

You have to prove we've always believed. You can't have it both ways. You want me to prove we invented god but I can't go back before we have found those ancient burial sites and find exactly where we invented god, I can just tell you like every other thought we have in our heads, god was not always there.

And even if when we did believe as far back as when we were apes, that doesn't prove anything other than the idea of god is a very primitive concept. Doesn't take a very educated brain to swallow the idea of god. All it takes is a healthy fear of the unknown, a superstitious person and wishful thinking. Sprinkle that all together and you get god.

There was a point in history when we first invented every concept we know about today. The first battery, the first wheel, first fire, first clothing, first spear, first gun. Everything that exists today someone came up with it first.

Just like someone had to take the first selfie, someone has to be the fist person that came up with god, and it took off like crazy. Who did the first selfie? We may never know. So how are we going to know who was the fist person to come up with god?

What proof do I have? I have seen babies born and grow up to be adults. They weren't born with the belief that god exists. They had to be told the story. In fact they had to be told over and over and over and be brainwashed with it before they become adults or most people will not swallow such a fairy tale.

So it is not apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they haven't "always" been able to.

Do you see the flaw in your argument? First of all, it isn't apparent to anyone but you, second of all you are saying it is apparent that we've always been able to connect because we always have. You are assuming that we always have is a fact and that's the whole ******* argument you chump.

Listen to yourself. What proof do you have that we have always believed in god(s)?

Boss' answer, "because we always have".

What a fool.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.

Exactly what I said. I woke up. An atheist pointed out to me what an irrational illogical and improbable idea god is. He pointed out why we invented him. He pointed out how all the organized religions are full of shit and if you throw out all the stories that the organized religions tell of god visiting then you have even less proof a god exists.

You my friend are on thin ice. You believe because we have always believed and because you have a personal connection with god is not irrefutable proof. It is proof only you can accept. So as far as USMB goes, you believe for no ******* good reason. You are just like the other person who told me they believe simply because they want to believe.

And sorry boss but i was just like you and not too long ago. I abandoned christianity but still said I believed in god. I said I had a personal relationship with god. I even talked to god and told him I know he wouldn't punish anyone for not buying into any of the organized religions. I said, "god, I know the jesus story isn't real and the mohammad stories aren't true either and we came from the jewish faith and that isn't real either but I still believe in you god. But what reason do I believe? Every story about god ever told to me was a lie. There is no rational reason to believe in a god.

Oh, and you don't get to re define god. If god isn't the thing that created us and isn't listening to you when you talk and isn't performing miracles and there is no heaven then go created another thread stating that you have invented a new god or new concept of what god is. I don't give a **** what you think god is if you are completely redefining him and making him so he isn't physical and can't be defined then you are REALLY stretching here buddy.

And I love it how arrogant and sure you are about your little invisible man you talk to, that isn't really listening because he isn't the god that humans invented, but your proof is that we invented him, even though we invented him all wrong. I can't even take you seriously anymore ass wipe. So funny

Your arguments are so flawed I don't even know where to begin. But you think they are all great arguments and that's real cute. And you can't imagine that I was just as dumb as you are now until I woke up.

 

[sealybobo]

From now on if you aren't a christian, muslim, jew, mormom or jehova **** off. I don't want to argue with people who believe even though they know all the organized religions are completely made up. First I want to talk to the people who take the bible/koran literally. Then I want to talk to the people who know the stories in the bible are just stories invented by men to teach write and wrong. I'll talk to jews and muslims but I won't discuss god with people who don't believe any of the organized religions but still believe in god(s) because they have absolutely zero proof god exists and yet still believe.

At least Christians believe the stories in the bible are true. If they really believe god sent his son jesus to be crucified, then I can understand why they believe. But if you realize that's just a made up story and you still believe in god then maybe you are even dumber than the person who believes the jesus stories. Or the muslim who believes the mohammad stories or the jews who believe the mosus stories. At least they have an excuse. They've either been brainwashed from when they were kids or they are just utterly gullible or they've been scared into believing.

If you believe in god but not any organized religion, I almost want to say you are dumber than them but I have to give you points for at least not falling for the impossible stories. And I should realize people like Boss are closer to the truth than a gismys is. Once you realize the lies aren't true then maybe one day it will dawn on you that without the organized religions you really have zero as far as proof a god exists.

If not, they would have never invented the lies in the first place. There would have been no reason to lie. They would have just used Boss' arguments. But Boss' arguments don't hold much water so they had to make up the stories.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not claiming God is a proven scientific fact and you just refuse to accept the evidence. That's the argument you want to make against God and you've not presented any evidence. When I point that detail out, you lament that I haven't proven God exists. Round and round we go. Look... the fact that I haven't given you sufficient proof of God's existence, doesn't mean that you've proven God doesn't exist. You stated that I am denying all the facts and evidence, but you've not presented any facts or evidence. If you have some, present it! If not, stop claiming you've presented it!



Oh, but I have shot down every supposition made by you and your atheist blog. You claim that man invented God, but there is no scientific evidence to support that belief. Archeology suggests that's just not true. The biology of animal behavior also doesn't lend any support. You claim it was to "explain the unknown" but God doesn't explain the unknown, science does. You claim it is to "console fears" but nothing else in nature has this problem, not to mention the utter absurdity that you can somehow console fear with something totally of the imagination. Nothing else in nature grapples with it's mortality. We only do so because we are aware of immortality, through spiritual connection. You've provided nothing to refute that because you can't.

90% of humans being spiritual isn't proof of God, but even Darwin would contend it does mean something significant to the species if it's THAT fundamental to the general behavior. You can present n example of behavior in any living thing, across 90% of the species, which has no relevance whatsoever.

As for religion, I don't subscribe to religions. I believe they are man-made incarnations prompted by our spiritual connection to something greater. They are clearly evidence that man does make some kind of metaphysical connection to something greater. Humans are spiritually connected, always have been, always will be. If you don't like that, I am sorry... just a fact of life.

You show me your evidence that humans didn't make up god that instead they had sound, reasonable, rational, logical reasons for making up god.

Because either they made it up or you're saying god visited them.

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.



Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.



Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.



Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.

So no god talked to the original man. How do I know? Because no god talked to adam and eve, noah, mosus, budda, mohammad, joseph smith or you.

But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.

What does my site prove? That scientifically all the organized religions are BULLSHIT. You agree with my site on that. Ok then lets move on. You also agree there is no proof a god exists. And then you try to redefine god, just like my site said you would. I swear if there are 50 points that site makes, 45 of them answer all of your come backs. The come backs you think are so slick. You're just another confused christian buddy. You're just like me when I left Christianity. It isn't that much of a leap once you realize the whole thing is made up to come to the conclusion that your uneducated ape ancestors just made it up.

You want proof? Just you asking me for proof still makes you an ignorant ****. Lets get in my time machine and go back and see. ******* fool. Science says you are 99.999 probably wrong. Agnostic Atheism.

Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

I have proof! Ok, in the beginning, when the first man invented god and told the others in his tribe about this god, he didn't use any of your arguments boss. Man didn't use your spiritual connection arguments to prove a god existed, what did they do boss? They made up stories. They lied.

So that is my proof man made up god. If he didn't make it up, either he had proof or he speculated. You say the fact that we have always speculated is proof a god exists. But that's not true at all. The fact that we made up a story about the beginning, where adam and eve lived in paradise and then sinned and then came the noah flood and then came jesus to be sacraficed.

So the only thing we know is that from the beginning, man has been making shit up about god. Where does god come from? We pulled it out of our asses. And all the stories are made up lies. So if this is your proof, I guess you need to go ask god for forgiveness for being so stupid.

Basically everything humans believe about god is a lie. That should tell you we completely made it up. If everything we thinkn we know about god is wrong, what are the chances god even exists?

And you can't even defend religion so you fall back on this spiritual mumbo jumbo. Fact is, you lose. You have failed to prove anything.

Oh, and if you could please provide a link to anyone who agrees with you. Or are you the only one who believes what you believe? I think so.

 

[Slyhunter]

You're the one who claims your god has always existed, so you must have proof for that, let's hear it.

I didn't say I could prove God. I certainly can't prove God to you. That's not proof God doesn't exist or something had to create God. Unless you have evidence to support your claim, it is a matter of faith. I have no problem with having faith in God. I also don't have a problem with you having faith there isn't a God, but you don't get to present that as fact.

Since everything in the universe came from something else, let's just assume your god was made as well, until proven otherwise. And again, I'm agnostic, I see no proof for or against a god.

Actually the argument that God must exist because the universe being created from nothing is not logical ignores the fact that what/whom created God.

 

[Slyhunter]

little man! keepyour silly ideas and opinions as they are utter foolishness!!! HOW TRUE GOD'S WORD IS=ETERNAL TRUTH!!18 I know very well how foolish it sounds to those who are lost, when they hear that Jesus died to save them. But we who are saved* recognize this message as the very power of God. 19 For God says, “I will destroy all human plans of salvation no matter how wise they seem to be, and ignore the best ideas of men, even the most brilliant of them.”

20 So what about these wise men, these scholars, these brilliant debaters of this world’s great affairs? God has made them all look foolish and shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. 21 For God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find God through human brilliance, and then he stepped in and saved all those who believed his message, which the world calls foolish and silly. 22 It seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven as proof that what is preached is true; and it is foolish to the Gentiles because they believe only what agrees with their philosophy and seems wise to them. 23 So when we preach about Christ dying to save them, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power of God to save them; Christ himself is the center of God’s wise plan for their salvation. 25 This so-called “foolish” plan of God is far wiser than the wisest plan of the wisest man, and God in his weakness—Christ dying on the cross—is far stronger than any man.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25

What makes you think the words you quote as being the truth? Some book told you so.

 

[GISMYS]

little man! keepyour silly ideas and opinions as they are utter foolishness!!! HOW TRUE GOD'S WORD IS=ETERNAL TRUTH!!18 I know very well how foolish it sounds to those who are lost, when they hear that Jesus died to save them. But we who are saved* recognize this message as the very power of God. 19 For God says, “I will destroy all human plans of salvation no matter how wise they seem to be, and ignore the best ideas of men, even the most brilliant of them.”

20 So what about these wise men, these scholars, these brilliant debaters of this world’s great affairs? God has made them all look foolish and shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. 21 For God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find God through human brilliance, and then he stepped in and saved all those who believed his message, which the world calls foolish and silly. 22 It seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven as proof that what is preached is true; and it is foolish to the Gentiles because they believe only what agrees with their philosophy and seems wise to them. 23 So when we preach about Christ dying to save them, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power of God to save them; Christ himself is the center of God’s wise plan for their salvation. 25 This so-called “foolish” plan of God is far wiser than the wisest plan of the wisest man, and God in his weakness—Christ dying on the cross—is far stronger than any man.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25

What makes you think the words you quote as being the truth? Some book told you so.

SO YOU DON'T KNOW TRUTH WHEN YOU READ OR HEAR IT??????????? WELL I DO!!!and you??

 

[Boss]

You show me your evidence that humans didn't make up god that instead they had sound, reasonable, rational, logical reasons for making up god.

Because either they made it up or you're saying god visited them.

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.



Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.



Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.



Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.



But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.

What does my site prove? That scientifically all the organized religions are BULLSHIT. You agree with my site on that. Ok then lets move on. You also agree there is no proof a god exists. And then you try to redefine god, just like my site said you would. I swear if there are 50 points that site makes, 45 of them answer all of your come backs. The come backs you think are so slick. You're just another confused christian buddy. You're just like me when I left Christianity. It isn't that much of a leap once you realize the whole thing is made up to come to the conclusion that your uneducated ape ancestors just made it up.

You want proof? Just you asking me for proof still makes you an ignorant ****. Lets get in my time machine and go back and see. ******* fool. Science says you are 99.999 probably wrong. Agnostic Atheism.

Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

Sorry you can't have it both ways. If you are going to say: "humans have always been able to connect with god, you have to prove that. I say like every other human invention like the wheel or fire, we picked god up somewhere along the way.

Can you tell me when exactly we invented fire? Do you say we always knew how to make fire? No you don't. Well guess what? Scientists say we invented god the same time we invented writing, fire, jewelry, painting and the wheel. NOT before.

Scientists say no such thing. There is no science to confirm this speculation. NONE! You can keep on claiming it, but you've offered NO evidence. We didn't invent fire, ignorant! We didn't invent written language until about 3200 BCE. All archeological findings confirm that man has always been spiritual. As far back as we've found any evidence of human civilizations, we also find human spiritual rituals. Before the wheel, before painting, before jewelry, and certainly well before the written language. I honestly don't know what more evidence you need, this is from the oldest civilizations we know about. There is no information before that, so anything else is speculatory. I don't have any idea what you mean by "have it both ways" or where I've tried to have something more than one way. You can't state that humans invented spirituality unless you can show where and when that happened. Since you can't show that because from the oldest civilization, spirituality existed, then you can only speculate. There is no evidence to support your belief, it's as simple as that.

You have to prove we've always believed. You can't have it both ways. You want me to prove we invented god but I can't go back before we have found those ancient burial sites and find exactly where we invented god, I can just tell you like every other thought we have in our heads, god was not always there.

Again, I have no idea what you mean by having it both ways. I am not trying to have anything both ways. Archeology is clear on this, there is no debate, no dispute. Humans have always been spiritually connected, from the oldest civilizations ever discovered. If you have conflicting information, ******* present that! If not, acknowledge that this is what archeology says is the case. You are simply trying to force your OPINION as fact here, and I'm rejecting your OPINION because it's not FACT! Now you can certainly SPECULATE that we invented God but you don't have any evidence to show this to be the case. So let's stop claiming that "science" says something it doesn't say here.

And even if when we did believe as far back as when we were apes, that doesn't prove anything other than the idea of god is a very primitive concept. Doesn't take a very educated brain to swallow the idea of god. All it takes is a healthy fear of the unknown, a superstitious person and wishful thinking. Sprinkle that all together and you get god.

But again, you are stubbornly ignoring the counterpoints I have made to your argument. It's as if I am talking to a brick wall here. "Fear of the unknown" hasn't caused any other living thing on this planet to ever create an imaginary playmate and worship it for all their existence. There isn't even any logical evidence that inventing such an imaginary playmate would suffice at consoling fears. If it were simply superstition or wishful thinking, humans would have long-ago abandoned such nonsense. Again, all you have here is speculation and opinion. And that's fine, but we're going to call it that! It's certainly not SCIENCE!

There was a point in history when we first invented every concept we know about today. The first battery, the first wheel, first fire, first clothing, first spear, first gun. Everything that exists today someone came up with it first.

Just like someone had to take the first selfie, someone has to be the fist person that came up with god, and it took off like crazy. Who did the first selfie? We may never know. So how are we going to know who was the fist person to come up with god?

Again, you are speculating and here you honestly admit that you are speculating. Now if you would just comprehend that your speculations aren't science and not supported by science, then we'd be getting somewhere. Yes, humans have invented all kind of things... other animals aren't inventing shit, are they? Wonder why that is? All the billions of other forms of life that had such a head start on humans through evolution, yet somehow we were blessed with this special brain that just so happened to allow all this creativity.... odd isn't it? Or could that possibly be related to our unique intrinsic ability to connect with some power greater than ourselves, that gives us the inspiration to do these things?

What proof do I have? I have seen babies born and grow up to be adults. They weren't born with the belief that god exists. They had to be told the story. In fact they had to be told over and over and over and be brainwashed with it before they become adults or most people will not swallow such a fairy tale.

Were they taught how to talk, how to read, how to spell? Were they taught to wear clothes? Were they taught how to walk? How to feed themselves? What if no one had been around to teach any of those things, would they have learned on their own? The only thing you have proof of is that adult humans teach their young, just like other animals teach their young.

So it is not apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they haven't "always" been able to.

Yes is is apparent, from every archeological finding we've ever unearthed. You can't dispute that, you've offered no evidence to the contrary. Every human civilization that has ever existed has had some form of human spirituality. Are all humans always spiritual? No... only about 90% on average, the other 10% are idiots like you.

Do you see the flaw in your argument? First of all, it isn't apparent to anyone but you, second of all you are saying it is apparent that we've always been able to connect because we always have. You are assuming that we always have is a fact and that's the whole ******* argument you chump.

Listen to yourself. What proof do you have that we have always believed in god(s)?

Boss' answer, "because we always have".

What a fool.

My evidence is clear and well documented. Every human civilization we've ever known of or found any evidence of, has had some form of spirituality. Every single one... no exceptions. There is not a time you can point to and say... Here is where man came up with this idea... or here is where God was invented. You can show where religions were invented, and I haven't disputed that. You can say... Here is where humans stopped believing in many gods and started believing in one god... got that... I understand it. Still, man has ALWAYS believed in something greater than self. It has taken many forms, there have been many incarnations of what that thing is, but it has always existed with man. You've offered nothing to refute that. You can't. The evidence is not there.

 

[itfitzme]

Because religious fanatics persist.

Next question.

 

[sealybobo]

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.



Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.



Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.



Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.



But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.



Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

Sorry you can't have it both ways. If you are going to say: "humans have always been able to connect with god, you have to prove that. I say like every other human invention like the wheel or fire, we picked god up somewhere along the way.

Can you tell me when exactly we invented fire? Do you say we always knew how to make fire? No you don't. Well guess what? Scientists say we invented god the same time we invented writing, fire, jewelry, painting and the wheel. NOT before.

Scientists say no such thing. There is no science to confirm this speculation. NONE! You can keep on claiming it, but you've offered NO evidence. We didn't invent fire, ignorant! We didn't invent written language until about 3200 BCE. All archeological findings confirm that man has always been spiritual. As far back as we've found any evidence of human civilizations, we also find human spiritual rituals. Before the wheel, before painting, before jewelry, and certainly well before the written language. I honestly don't know what more evidence you need, this is from the oldest civilizations we know about. There is no information before that, so anything else is speculatory. I don't have any idea what you mean by "have it both ways" or where I've tried to have something more than one way. You can't state that humans invented spirituality unless you can show where and when that happened. Since you can't show that because from the oldest civilization, spirituality existed, then you can only speculate. There is no evidence to support your belief, it's as simple as that.



Again, I have no idea what you mean by having it both ways. I am not trying to have anything both ways. Archeology is clear on this, there is no debate, no dispute. Humans have always been spiritually connected, from the oldest civilizations ever discovered. If you have conflicting information, ******* present that! If not, acknowledge that this is what archeology says is the case. You are simply trying to force your OPINION as fact here, and I'm rejecting your OPINION because it's not FACT! Now you can certainly SPECULATE that we invented God but you don't have any evidence to show this to be the case. So let's stop claiming that "science" says something it doesn't say here.



But again, you are stubbornly ignoring the counterpoints I have made to your argument. It's as if I am talking to a brick wall here. "Fear of the unknown" hasn't caused any other living thing on this planet to ever create an imaginary playmate and worship it for all their existence. There isn't even any logical evidence that inventing such an imaginary playmate would suffice at consoling fears. If it were simply superstition or wishful thinking, humans would have long-ago abandoned such nonsense. Again, all you have here is speculation and opinion. And that's fine, but we're going to call it that! It's certainly not SCIENCE!



Again, you are speculating and here you honestly admit that you are speculating. Now if you would just comprehend that your speculations aren't science and not supported by science, then we'd be getting somewhere. Yes, humans have invented all kind of things... other animals aren't inventing shit, are they? Wonder why that is? All the billions of other forms of life that had such a head start on humans through evolution, yet somehow we were blessed with this special brain that just so happened to allow all this creativity.... odd isn't it? Or could that possibly be related to our unique intrinsic ability to connect with some power greater than ourselves, that gives us the inspiration to do these things?



Were they taught how to talk, how to read, how to spell? Were they taught to wear clothes? Were they taught how to walk? How to feed themselves? What if no one had been around to teach any of those things, would they have learned on their own? The only thing you have proof of is that adult humans teach their young, just like other animals teach their young.

So it is not apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they haven't "always" been able to.

Yes is is apparent, from every archeological finding we've ever unearthed. You can't dispute that, you've offered no evidence to the contrary. Every human civilization that has ever existed has had some form of human spirituality. Are all humans always spiritual? No... only about 90% on average, the other 10% are idiots like you.

Do you see the flaw in your argument? First of all, it isn't apparent to anyone but you, second of all you are saying it is apparent that we've always been able to connect because we always have. You are assuming that we always have is a fact and that's the whole ******* argument you chump.

Listen to yourself. What proof do you have that we have always believed in god(s)?

Boss' answer, "because we always have".

What a fool.

My evidence is clear and well documented. Every human civilization we've ever known of or found any evidence of, has had some form of spirituality. Every single one... no exceptions. There is not a time you can point to and say... Here is where man came up with this idea... or here is where God was invented. You can show where religions were invented, and I haven't disputed that. You can say... Here is where humans stopped believing in many gods and started believing in one god... got that... I understand it. Still, man has ALWAYS believed in something greater than self. It has taken many forms, there have been many incarnations of what that thing is, but it has always existed with man. You've offered nothing to refute that. You can't. The evidence is not there.

Just because we see religious rituals as far back as we can see, doesn't mean we were always religious. You see, when we were fish we were probably not spiritual. When we were small rodent size mammals, we didn't believe in god. When we were apes we didn't believe in gods yet either. It was at some point in early homo sapien's history that we invented god. But it wasn't ALWAYS. I can't prove it wasn't and you can't prove it was ALYWAYS. You can only speculate as so can I. That's how you want it both ways. You act like you know what was going on 1000 years before those ancient rituals were discovered. You do not.

And besides, even if they did believe, that doesn't prove anything. Most people today believe and we are a lot smarter today than we were back then. And that doesn't prove anything either. You think it does.

My mom said the same thing before when I was younger. She said, "from the beginning of time man has always looked up" I use to use this as justification for belief too before I woke up and realized god doesn't exist. I'm not trying to convince you or change you. I'm simply on a message board voicing my opinion.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[PostmodernProph]

She said, "from the beginning of time man has always looked up"

since you used to be a rodent, you had to look higher than most......

 

[sealybobo]

You're asking me to show you evidence of a negative. I can't prove a negative, no one can. If you are going to argue that man invented God, you need to present some evidence of that, otherwise it is speculation. So far, you've presented nothing. You keep insisting that I prove your speculation wrong.

I also don't accept they either made it up or God visited them. God could have visited them, or they could have been bestowed some intrinsic ability to connect with God without any visitation from God required. Whatever the case, it's apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they always have. All archeological findings confirm this. Nothing shows they invented it or that it's imaginary. In fact, it defies logic the species would have clung to some superficial imaginary attribute for all of it's existence. We find no such other example of this sort in all of nature.



Well, 40 years isn't that long, to be honest. Man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, and man has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. That trumps your 40 years by a good little bit, don't you agree? I didn't suggest God spoke to anyone. You keep trying to cajole me into some religious belief so you can debate religion with me. Also, why do you keep going back and forth? You've said that you believed in God and spoke with God, now you claim that you've seen no proof. Seems one of those claims has to be dishonest.



Well, no you didn't wake up. You allowed an Atheist to convince you of an Atheist speculation. You've offered nothing to support your disbelief, other than the absence of physical evidence for the spiritual. We've been over this, you were never "just like" me. I have no question in my mind that I connect with God. I don't think you've ever made that connection or you would never be able to deny it. I believe you think it makes you sound more credible to claim this, which is why you're doing it. The problem is, you continue to completely contradict yourself.



Again, you are demonstrating how you most certainly were NOT "just like" me. I honestly don't think I am talking to myself and causing beneficial things to occur from my imagination. That's a helluva ******* trick if I'm making that happen on my own. God has blessed me so many times I can't count them. I have made it through some impossible situations, defied death a few times, overcome hopeless adversities, and you think this is all because I've created some imaginary being in my mind? I think you're silly if you think I'm going to buy that.



But where is your evidence at??? You're saying this, but you're not presenting any evidence other than your opinion. You simply DON'T KNOW this. You are speculating. You have a faith-based belief, or in this case, disbelief. No evidence, no proof, just faith and speculation.



Science says no such thing. Science offers not one iota of evidence that God doesn't exist. You can post links from your blog all you like, you've offered NO evidence to support ANY of your suppositions. I've not said religions are "bullshit" just that I don't subscribe to their dogma. They could be absolutely correct and I could be totally mistaken. That's a possibility, and I respect that. I'm NOT a confused Christian and definitely not "just like" you in any way. You can repeat that from now til the cows come home, it isn't going to be any more true. I connect daily to a God I know is there, who has blessed me more times than I can remember, in more ways than I can explain here. There is no question whatsoever in my mind about the existence of this God. You're not going to ever change my mind.

Sorry you can't have it both ways. If you are going to say: "humans have always been able to connect with god, you have to prove that. I say like every other human invention like the wheel or fire, we picked god up somewhere along the way.

Can you tell me when exactly we invented fire? Do you say we always knew how to make fire? No you don't. Well guess what? Scientists say we invented god the same time we invented writing, fire, jewelry, painting and the wheel. NOT before.

Scientists say no such thing. There is no science to confirm this speculation. NONE! You can keep on claiming it, but you've offered NO evidence. We didn't invent fire, ignorant! We didn't invent written language until about 3200 BCE. All archeological findings confirm that man has always been spiritual. As far back as we've found any evidence of human civilizations, we also find human spiritual rituals. Before the wheel, before painting, before jewelry, and certainly well before the written language. I honestly don't know what more evidence you need, this is from the oldest civilizations we know about. There is no information before that, so anything else is speculatory. I don't have any idea what you mean by "have it both ways" or where I've tried to have something more than one way. You can't state that humans invented spirituality unless you can show where and when that happened. Since you can't show that because from the oldest civilization, spirituality existed, then you can only speculate. There is no evidence to support your belief, it's as simple as that.



Again, I have no idea what you mean by having it both ways. I am not trying to have anything both ways. Archeology is clear on this, there is no debate, no dispute. Humans have always been spiritually connected, from the oldest civilizations ever discovered. If you have conflicting information, ******* present that! If not, acknowledge that this is what archeology says is the case. You are simply trying to force your OPINION as fact here, and I'm rejecting your OPINION because it's not FACT! Now you can certainly SPECULATE that we invented God but you don't have any evidence to show this to be the case. So let's stop claiming that "science" says something it doesn't say here.



But again, you are stubbornly ignoring the counterpoints I have made to your argument. It's as if I am talking to a brick wall here. "Fear of the unknown" hasn't caused any other living thing on this planet to ever create an imaginary playmate and worship it for all their existence. There isn't even any logical evidence that inventing such an imaginary playmate would suffice at consoling fears. If it were simply superstition or wishful thinking, humans would have long-ago abandoned such nonsense. Again, all you have here is speculation and opinion. And that's fine, but we're going to call it that! It's certainly not SCIENCE!



Again, you are speculating and here you honestly admit that you are speculating. Now if you would just comprehend that your speculations aren't science and not supported by science, then we'd be getting somewhere. Yes, humans have invented all kind of things... other animals aren't inventing shit, are they? Wonder why that is? All the billions of other forms of life that had such a head start on humans through evolution, yet somehow we were blessed with this special brain that just so happened to allow all this creativity.... odd isn't it? Or could that possibly be related to our unique intrinsic ability to connect with some power greater than ourselves, that gives us the inspiration to do these things?



Were they taught how to talk, how to read, how to spell? Were they taught to wear clothes? Were they taught how to walk? How to feed themselves? What if no one had been around to teach any of those things, would they have learned on their own? The only thing you have proof of is that adult humans teach their young, just like other animals teach their young.

So it is not apparent that humans have always had this attribute of being able to connect spiritually because they haven't "always" been able to.

Yes is is apparent, from every archeological finding we've ever unearthed. You can't dispute that, you've offered no evidence to the contrary. Every human civilization that has ever existed has had some form of human spirituality. Are all humans always spiritual? No... only about 90% on average, the other 10% are idiots like you.

Do you see the flaw in your argument? First of all, it isn't apparent to anyone but you, second of all you are saying it is apparent that we've always been able to connect because we always have. You are assuming that we always have is a fact and that's the whole ******* argument you chump.

Listen to yourself. What proof do you have that we have always believed in god(s)?

Boss' answer, "because we always have".

What a fool.

My evidence is clear and well documented. Every human civilization we've ever known of or found any evidence of, has had some form of spirituality. Every single one... no exceptions. There is not a time you can point to and say... Here is where man came up with this idea... or here is where God was invented. You can show where religions were invented, and I haven't disputed that. You can say... Here is where humans stopped believing in many gods and started believing in one god... got that... I understand it. Still, man has ALWAYS believed in something greater than self. It has taken many forms, there have been many incarnations of what that thing is, but it has always existed with man. You've offered nothing to refute that. You can't. The evidence is not there.

I have to agree with you that man has always been superstitious, had wild imaginations, a healthy fear of the unknown and has always been a little stupid so we probably did always believe in gods for as long as your brains have been big enough to come up with the concept.

Think about where we would be if it weren't for the smart scientists. The 5% that really advanced us as a society. Invented all the great things that we enjoy today. The majority of them say the masses are just stupid and believing in god is an irrational thought.

So I'll give it to you the masses have always believed in something greater than them. That's because the masses are really stupid and gullible.

Everything is energy, and “energy” is without consciousness, without love and without mercy.

Anyways, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on if god exists.

I found this about Einstein and maybe you are a Pantheism like him?

Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

19. What evidence is there that humans have a spirit? Part 1: The Science of the Soul | 500 Questions about God & Christianity

 

[hobelim]

Why must you have a pure mind to see god? That's kinda random. And book quoting doesn't count, that's a book, for crissakes.

What I mean by pure mind is a mind that is open, honest, and rational. That's not random, that's essential to comprehension.

And it is not about judgement or crime and punishment as it is about cause and effect, action and consequence.


For instance, if a gullible person swallows any garbage they hear, their mind will as a consequence become confused.

Its not a punishment from God but a law as real as gravity.

If there is a person who thinks rationally but one day is persuaded to accept something irrational, that belief will defile and contaminate their mind and they will become a creature that cannot think rationally.

ROFLMAO!!! OK!!! YOU KNOW YOUR PROBLEM =NOW do something about it!!! TWEAK!

What a schmuck.

You of all people here are the perfect example of a person suffering the consequences for setting aside the laws of God and worshiping a human being and misleading others to do the same because you lifted your skirt for the vile and loathsome flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate and have become a creature that cannot ruminate.

You have the form and shape of a flabby human being, but an intelligence just slightly above that of a mentally challenged monkey.

Don't take it too hard, at least you have no worries.

 

[Boss]

Just because we see religious rituals as far back as we can see, doesn't mean we were always religious. You see, when we were fish we were probably not spiritual. When we were small rodent size mammals, we didn't believe in god. When we were apes we didn't believe in gods yet either.

All of this stuff is also speculative. You've offered NO scientific proof that anything has ever evolved past the genus stage. We weren't fish or rodents. If we were ape-like, God must've intervened to bestow us with something apes don't have, because we're obviously not like apes today.

It was at some point in early homo sapien's history that we invented god.

Where is your evidence???? Again, you cannot state this as a fact until you've proven it true. You've offered nothing but a speculation. Do you have proof or not?

But it wasn't ALWAYS. I can't prove it wasn't and you can't prove it was ALYWAYS.

Yes I can, I already have. Every archeological finding of human civilization remains, shows humans are spiritual. Now, we've found bones dating back to the days of the dinosaurs, so it's obvious if there were any humans living in any kind of civilizations, we'd have found those too. It's not like we've found some evidence these humans over here didn't have spirituality and those did... ALL human civilizations ever unearthed, show signs of some type of spirituality. No exceptions.

And besides, even if they did believe, that doesn't prove anything.

Well now here is where we get to the crux of your argument, you are just going to reject whatever. You've made your mind up that no amount of evidence is ever going to convince you, and no matter how much evidence is shown, you are prepared to reject it. So it doesn't matter how much evidence I present, or how compelling the evidence is, your mind is completely made up on the matter.

This is what is perplexing to me and why I made this thread. Why do you persist? Do you think I am going to have some kind of magical powers to overcome your stubborn refusal to accept the evidence? Do you think that if you argue this long enough, I will somehow find some way to change your made up mind about God? Well guess what? That's not ever going to happen man. Save us both the trouble and just move on! Why go through all of this shit over and over and over and over? If you're not going to accept ANY evidence under ANY circumstance, it's futile and pointless to continue.

 

[sealybobo]

Just because we see religious rituals as far back as we can see, doesn't mean we were always religious. You see, when we were fish we were probably not spiritual. When we were small rodent size mammals, we didn't believe in god. When we were apes we didn't believe in gods yet either.

All of this stuff is also speculative. You've offered NO scientific proof that anything has ever evolved past the genus stage. We weren't fish or rodents. If we were ape-like, God must've intervened to bestow us with something apes don't have, because we're obviously not like apes today.

It was at some point in early homo sapien's history that we invented god.

Where is your evidence???? Again, you cannot state this as a fact until you've proven it true. You've offered nothing but a speculation. Do you have proof or not?

But it wasn't ALWAYS. I can't prove it wasn't and you can't prove it was ALYWAYS.

Yes I can, I already have. Every archeological finding of human civilization remains, shows humans are spiritual. Now, we've found bones dating back to the days of the dinosaurs, so it's obvious if there were any humans living in any kind of civilizations, we'd have found those too. It's not like we've found some evidence these humans over here didn't have spirituality and those did... ALL human civilizations ever unearthed, show signs of some type of spirituality. No exceptions.

And besides, even if they did believe, that doesn't prove anything.

Well now here is where we get to the crux of your argument, you are just going to reject whatever. You've made your mind up that no amount of evidence is ever going to convince you, and no matter how much evidence is shown, you are prepared to reject it. So it doesn't matter how much evidence I present, or how compelling the evidence is, your mind is completely made up on the matter.

This is what is perplexing to me and why I made this thread. Why do you persist? Do you think I am going to have some kind of magical powers to overcome your stubborn refusal to accept the evidence? Do you think that if you argue this long enough, I will somehow find some way to change your made up mind about God? Well guess what? That's not ever going to happen man. Save us both the trouble and just move on! Why go through all of this shit over and over and over and over? If you're not going to accept ANY evidence under ANY circumstance, it's futile and pointless to continue.

Just because humans have believed for as far back as we can look doesn't prove god exists. I will give you that man has always believed in gods. Fine. That doesn't prove god exists.

What evidence? You have given your hunches and feelings and speculation as to why you believe god exists, but then again, you don't even know what god is. And everything you use as proof is stuff science can explain. Where does your mind and thoughts come from? Your brain.

Did you actually give irrefutable proof that your spirit lives on after you die?

Does anyone else here at USMB believe Boss has proven anything?

 

[sealybobo]

Just because we see religious rituals as far back as we can see, doesn't mean we were always religious. You see, when we were fish we were probably not spiritual. When we were small rodent size mammals, we didn't believe in god. When we were apes we didn't believe in gods yet either.

All of this stuff is also speculative. You've offered NO scientific proof that anything has ever evolved past the genus stage. We weren't fish or rodents. If we were ape-like, God must've intervened to bestow us with something apes don't have, because we're obviously not like apes today.

It was at some point in early homo sapien's history that we invented god.

Where is your evidence???? Again, you cannot state this as a fact until you've proven it true. You've offered nothing but a speculation. Do you have proof or not?

But it wasn't ALWAYS. I can't prove it wasn't and you can't prove it was ALYWAYS.

Yes I can, I already have. Every archeological finding of human civilization remains, shows humans are spiritual. Now, we've found bones dating back to the days of the dinosaurs, so it's obvious if there were any humans living in any kind of civilizations, we'd have found those too. It's not like we've found some evidence these humans over here didn't have spirituality and those did... ALL human civilizations ever unearthed, show signs of some type of spirituality. No exceptions.

And besides, even if they did believe, that doesn't prove anything.

Well now here is where we get to the crux of your argument, you are just going to reject whatever. You've made your mind up that no amount of evidence is ever going to convince you, and no matter how much evidence is shown, you are prepared to reject it. So it doesn't matter how much evidence I present, or how compelling the evidence is, your mind is completely made up on the matter.

This is what is perplexing to me and why I made this thread. Why do you persist? Do you think I am going to have some kind of magical powers to overcome your stubborn refusal to accept the evidence? Do you think that if you argue this long enough, I will somehow find some way to change your made up mind about God? Well guess what? That's not ever going to happen man. Save us both the trouble and just move on! Why go through all of this shit over and over and over and over? If you're not going to accept ANY evidence under ANY circumstance, it's futile and pointless to continue.

This is pretty interesting. http://www.cavemenworld.com/explore/when-did-man-invent-god/

Ten thousand years ago, animism was the world’s most pervasive religious belief. Every plant, stone and animal was thought to contain a spirit.

According to archaeologists working in the Jordan River Valley in 1997, the Migdol Temple in the ancient city of Pella was the birthplace of mankind’s idea of God.

Some 3,600 years ago, text was carved in stone there, indicating worship of a single all-powerful God,

As the great French author Voltaire wrote in 1768: “Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer,” meaning “If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.” So perhaps we did, and now we know when.

Morgan Freeman agrees with me Morgan Freeman: 'I Think We Invented God'

 

[hobelim]

Just because we see religious rituals as far back as we can see, doesn't mean we were always religious. You see, when we were fish we were probably not spiritual. When we were small rodent size mammals, we didn't believe in god. When we were apes we didn't believe in gods yet either.

All of this stuff is also speculative. You've offered NO scientific proof that anything has ever evolved past the genus stage. We weren't fish or rodents. If we were ape-like, God must've intervened to bestow us with something apes don't have, because we're obviously not like apes today.



Where is your evidence???? Again, you cannot state this as a fact until you've proven it true. You've offered nothing but a speculation. Do you have proof or not?



Yes I can, I already have. Every archeological finding of human civilization remains, shows humans are spiritual. Now, we've found bones dating back to the days of the dinosaurs, so it's obvious if there were any humans living in any kind of civilizations, we'd have found those too. It's not like we've found some evidence these humans over here didn't have spirituality and those did... ALL human civilizations ever unearthed, show signs of some type of spirituality. No exceptions.

And besides, even if they did believe, that doesn't prove anything.

Well now here is where we get to the crux of your argument, you are just going to reject whatever. You've made your mind up that no amount of evidence is ever going to convince you, and no matter how much evidence is shown, you are prepared to reject it. So it doesn't matter how much evidence I present, or how compelling the evidence is, your mind is completely made up on the matter.

This is what is perplexing to me and why I made this thread. Why do you persist? Do you think I am going to have some kind of magical powers to overcome your stubborn refusal to accept the evidence? Do you think that if you argue this long enough, I will somehow find some way to change your made up mind about God? Well guess what? That's not ever going to happen man. Save us both the trouble and just move on! Why go through all of this shit over and over and over and over? If you're not going to accept ANY evidence under ANY circumstance, it's futile and pointless to continue.

Just because humans have believed for as far back as we can look doesn't prove god exists. I will give you that man has always believed in gods. Fine. That doesn't prove god exists.

What evidence? You have given your hunches and feelings and speculation as to why you believe god exists, but then again, you don't even know what god is. And everything you use as proof is stuff science can explain. Where does your mind and thoughts come from? Your brain.

Did you actually give irrefutable proof that your spirit lives on after you die?

Does anyone else here at USMB believe Boss has proven anything?

No. Boss hasn't even proven that anyone is a God hater. I've tried to explain to Boss that people having spiritual beliefs for thousands of years is not proof of any spiritual reality and that what he calls spiritual evidence does not qualify as any kind of evidence..

It doesn't seem to matter to Boss that what people used to believe according to any given religion has been proven false thousands of years ago which proves only that people had vivid imaginations inspired by fear of the unknown and were superstitious which is hardly evidence of any alternate spiritual reality especially since what they believed was false.

He expects people to just believe what he says because he says so and if anyone disagrees or points out flaws in his reasoning they either are too stupid to grasp his deep thinking or they must hate God yet he finds it too hard to believe that his argument for spiritual reality is based on great errors that he has made in his own speculations and is simply just plain wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

Boss is right though. Even 223,000 years ago Neandertals and Primitive man did show signs of being religious. That certainly doesn't prove god exists though does it? Just because our ape ancestors were superstitious and had wild imaginations and a healthy fear of the unknown does not mean that is proof god exists.

In fact, look at how many versions of god there is. Seems to me that everyone is just guessing. Seems to me to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

Then somewhere along the way man got a hold of the idea and figured out how to control people with religion.

Hell even Neandertals believed in god. Are they in heaven too? Does their spirit live on? Wishful thinking.

The earliest evidence of Hominids, such as Neanderthals and even Homo heidelbergensis, deliberately disposing of deceased individuals usually in funerary caches. The graves are believed to represent the beginnings of ceremonial rites.

So what? What makes anyone think they didn't make it up? Science gives a lot of great explanations as to how/when/why man invented god(s). They were afraid of the unknown. They invented a super parent. They had wild imaginations and could tell really good stories just like we can today.

I have a great imagination. I can come up with a wild story that is rooted in my fears too. That doesn't mean whatever I say is real or true.