Why do teachers always blame the students?

[Jackson]

There are not "3 kinds of parents," there are 3 million kinds. Generalizations are generally worthless.

I think we could suggest the three differences in parents. Certainly, there special grouping and some will fall in the cracks of these groups. But I think a respectful and authentic manner of wanting to work with them is present in all groups.

 

[anotherlife]

Who said the teachers blame the students. A good student will learn despite a bad teacher but average and low students will excell with good teachers. That's why I feel the best teachers should teach in the inner cities. Those jobs should should pay more exponentially and attract the best we have nationally.

But can a good student learn without any teacher at all, or does he still need a bad teacher at least? Also, I agree with your statement about the inner city teaching.

Yes. History has proven that people can learn on their own without the help of a teacher. Look at Abraham Lincoln. He had one year of formal education. But his love for reading never dissipated and he was considered a real scholar.

Yes, I heard and there were a lot of these people in the 19th century. Interestingly, there is none in the 21st.

education is not as valued as it was historically. It has been tainted with social engineering at the expense of academics.

Actually I think this is not what kills self teaching, on 2nd thought. I think what has happened now is that you are not allowed to self teach, because everything requires a certification and insider practice. For example, Lincoln(?) could be a self taught lawyer, but today you can't pass a bar exam without some law school history. Or more recently, 30 years ago, anyone could learn to be a programmer, but now you need a Microsoft certification plus another 20 certifications. Then there are countries, such as the uk, where students are formally prohibited from taking more than 3 subjects.

 

[Jackson]

Who said the teachers blame the students. A good student will learn despite a bad teacher but average and low students will excell with good teachers. That's why I feel the best teachers should teach in the inner cities. Those jobs should should pay more exponentially and attract the best we have nationally.

But can a good student learn without any teacher at all, or does he still need a bad teacher at least? Also, I agree with your statement about the inner city teaching.

Yes. History has proven that people can learn on their own without the help of a teacher. Look at Abraham Lincoln. He had one year of formal education. But his love for reading never dissipated and he was considered a real scholar.

Yes, I heard and there were a lot of these people in the 19th century. Interestingly, there is none in the 21st.

education is not as valued as it was historically. It has been tainted with social engineering at the expense of academics.

Actually I think this is not what kills self teaching, on 2nd thought. I think what has happened now is that you are not allowed to self teach, because everything requires a certification and insider practice. For example, Lincoln(?) could be a self taught lawyer, but you can't pass a bar exam without some law school history. Or more recently, 30 years ago, anyone could learn to be a programmer, but now you need a Microsoft certification plus another 20 certifications. Then there are countries, such as the uk, where students are formally prohibited from taking more than 3 subjects.

Students are not allowed to take more than three subjects in the UK? I didn't know that. But you are right about certification. They won't take anyone's word for their expertise. They want proof.

 

[anotherlife]

Usually, the teachers that other teachers respect, have this in common, that they blame the students for not fully understanding the curriculum. They also say, that the good student needs no teaching. How does this make sense? Can you achieve a degree or any kind of certificate, by just self teaching and no teachers? And if so, then do teachers want to make themselves redundant? I don't understand. How does this work?

Upon what do you base these claims?

A teacher told me that a good student needs no teacher. That stroke [sic] me as a contradiction, coming from a teacher.

One teacher told you this, once?


And how about the other claims?

I think the problem is easy to realize. Every subject has an infinite depth to it, down to the Ph.D. Level and even further. So, an examination has an infinite latitude to construct questions at any level, including even the most basic associate level. So, there is little chance of preparation successfully, without the insider knowledge of a teacher. Also certifications try to cover some basic experience level of practice in the subject. Can you self practice a subject with the correct mix of directions for a certification?

 

[anotherlife]

But can a good student learn without any teacher at all, or does he still need a bad teacher at least? Also, I agree with your statement about the inner city teaching.

Yes. History has proven that people can learn on their own without the help of a teacher. Look at Abraham Lincoln. He had one year of formal education. But his love for reading never dissipated and he was considered a real scholar.

Yes, I heard and there were a lot of these people in the 19th century. Interestingly, there is none in the 21st.

education is not as valued as it was historically. It has been tainted with social engineering at the expense of academics.

Actually I think this is not what kills self teaching, on 2nd thought. I think what has happened now is that you are not allowed to self teach, because everything requires a certification and insider practice. For example, Lincoln(?) could be a self taught lawyer, but you can't pass a bar exam without some law school history. Or more recently, 30 years ago, anyone could learn to be a programmer, but now you need a Microsoft certification plus another 20 certifications. Then there are countries, such as the uk, where students are formally prohibited from taking more than 3 subjects.

Students are not allowed to take more than three subjects in the UK? I didn't know that. But you are right about certification. They won't take anyone's word for their expertise. They want proof.

Yes, the U.K. Is strange in this sense. We usually learn maths, physics, chemistry, biology, literature, grammar, language, economy, geography, amongst other subjects in school. But I have seen the application forms of my English friend, and the state allows only three of these there. You must chose what skills you want to exclude yourself out of. I found all sciences and maths an interesting subject. In the uk I would be prohibited from learning them.

 

[mgh80]

I blame society. The sense of entitlement is astounding. I'm in my 30's, not that far removed from high school but it's a completely different animal now.

One year a kid failed my glass because he LITERALLY did nothing the entire 4th quarter. I called mom (from my APC's office nevertheless to cover my ass-I could tell a storm as brewing), no results in the kid's work ethic. I sent emails home to mom (again to cover my ass in writing)-no change in the kid's work ethic. I warned him I wasn't going to accept late work and he better get his act together. He was too busy smiling and trying to talk his way out of everything.

On the last day of the school year mom shows up and literally follows me around on campus demanding for me to assign him late work (yes she felt he was entitled to late work AFTER the school year). She did this for about 25 minutes and threatened to get me fired, so I walked her into the principal's office. She then threatened to get the principal fired by calling the school board. The school board actually caved into mom and granted him makeup work. So I gave it to him (via email over the summer)...you know how many assignments he turned in? ZERO. He was in school another 1 1/2 years before dropping out during his senior year.

 

[JW Frogen]

I agree with the opening question.

A good leader does not blame those he or she lead, they ******* lead.

I was an NCO, I did not blame my men for our failures, I lead them beyond our failures.

And then when we failed again, we did it all over again.

Together.

Blame had nothing to do with it.

Now chewing ass when they did not do what I told them to do, well that is a different story.

 

[mgh80]

I agree with the opening question.

A good leader does not blame those he or she lead, they ******* lead.

I was an NCO, I did not blame my men for our failures, I lead them beyond our failures.

And then when we failed again, we did it all over again.

Together.

Blame had nothing to do with it.

Now chewing ass when they did not do what I told them to do, well that is a different story.

Couple of differences between what you did and teachers do:

1) The people taking your orders signed up for it and wanted to be there
2) You were allowed to chew their asses out

You can lead a horse to water you can't make it drink. I'd love to see you (or anybody) get a classroom full of kids who grew up in gangs and/or exposed to gang to perform well at school. You can get many of them-even most of them. You cannot get them all.

 

[Unkotare]

.... I'd love to see you (or anybody) get a classroom full of kids who grew up in gangs and/or exposed to gang to perform well at school. ....

Of course you can.

 

[OldLady]

I blame society. The sense of entitlement is astounding. I'm in my 30's, not that far removed from high school but it's a completely different animal now.

One year a kid failed my glass because he LITERALLY did nothing the entire 4th quarter. I called mom (from my APC's office nevertheless to cover my ass-I could tell a storm as brewing), no results in the kid's work ethic. I sent emails home to mom (again to cover my ass in writing)-no change in the kid's work ethic. I warned him I wasn't going to accept late work and he better get his act together. He was too busy smiling and trying to talk his way out of everything.

On the last day of the school year mom shows up and literally follows me around on campus demanding for me to assign him late work (yes she felt he was entitled to late work AFTER the school year). She did this for about 25 minutes and threatened to get me fired, so I walked her into the principal's office. She then threatened to get the principal fired by calling the school board. The school board actually caved into mom and granted him makeup work. So I gave it to him (via email over the summer)...you know how many assignments he turned in? ZERO. He was in school another 1 1/2 years before dropping out during his senior year.

That kid was determined to shoot himself in the foot, but that mom obviously could care less. Sad. But the school board giving the kid one more chance over the summer? I don't know if that's "entitlement."

 

[mgh80]

.... I'd love to see you (or anybody) get a classroom full of kids who grew up in gangs and/or exposed to gang to perform well at school. ....

Of course you can.

I teach ~150 students from that background. Only in a utopia would you see such results. My student who was arrested for an armed burglary, grand theft auto, grand larceny, and possession of cocaine with intent to deal would also disagree with you.

 

[Jackson]

I blame society. The sense of entitlement is astounding. I'm in my 30's, not that far removed from high school but it's a completely different animal now.

One year a kid failed my glass because he LITERALLY did nothing the entire 4th quarter. I called mom (from my APC's office nevertheless to cover my ass-I could tell a storm as brewing), no results in the kid's work ethic. I sent emails home to mom (again to cover my ass in writing)-no change in the kid's work ethic. I warned him I wasn't going to accept late work and he better get his act together. He was too busy smiling and trying to talk his way out of everything.

On the last day of the school year mom shows up and literally follows me around on campus demanding for me to assign him late work (yes she felt he was entitled to late work AFTER the school year). She did this for about 25 minutes and threatened to get me fired, so I walked her into the principal's office. She then threatened to get the principal fired by calling the school board. The school board actually caved into mom and granted him makeup work. So I gave it to him (via email over the summer)...you know how many assignments he turned in? ZERO. He was in school another 1 1/2 years before dropping out during his senior year.

That kid was determined to shoot himself in the foot, but that mom obviously could care less. Sad. But the school board giving the kid one more chance over the summer? I don't know if that's "entitlement."

I think the kid should reap what he earned. The failing mark should stand and if he doesn't graduate, it on him and his family. That is what GED's are all about.

 

[mgh80]

I blame society. The sense of entitlement is astounding. I'm in my 30's, not that far removed from high school but it's a completely different animal now.

One year a kid failed my glass because he LITERALLY did nothing the entire 4th quarter. I called mom (from my APC's office nevertheless to cover my ass-I could tell a storm as brewing), no results in the kid's work ethic. I sent emails home to mom (again to cover my ass in writing)-no change in the kid's work ethic. I warned him I wasn't going to accept late work and he better get his act together. He was too busy smiling and trying to talk his way out of everything.

On the last day of the school year mom shows up and literally follows me around on campus demanding for me to assign him late work (yes she felt he was entitled to late work AFTER the school year). She did this for about 25 minutes and threatened to get me fired, so I walked her into the principal's office. She then threatened to get the principal fired by calling the school board. The school board actually caved into mom and granted him makeup work. So I gave it to him (via email over the summer)...you know how many assignments he turned in? ZERO. He was in school another 1 1/2 years before dropping out during his senior year.

That kid was determined to shoot himself in the foot, but that mom obviously could care less. Sad. But the school board giving the kid one more chance over the summer? I don't know if that's "entitlement."

The school board basically gave this kid the message that he was special and that the same rules that apply to everybody else did not apply to him. How is that not "entitlement"?

The mom only cared when her precious little snowflake was being treated "unfairly"--ironically giving him extra time to complete work that other students don't get is unfair. She didn't give two craps when I consistently emailed her and called her on the phone. I'm glad I keep excellent records of parent contacts. She (felt entitled) to have things done her way, which is probably why her son has adopted that attitude as well.

 

[Unkotare]

.... I'd love to see you (or anybody) get a classroom full of kids who grew up in gangs and/or exposed to gang to perform well at school. ....

Of course you can.

I teach ~150 students from that background. ....

So do I. If you don't believe in them, they are less likely to believe in themselves.

 

[anotherlife]

.... I'd love to see you (or anybody) get a classroom full of kids who grew up in gangs and/or exposed to gang to perform well at school. ....

Of course you can.

I teach ~150 students from that background. ....

So do I. If you don't believe in them, they are less likely to believe in themselves.

Troll, how do you achieve that? I had a bully teacher like that too, who wanted me to believe that I should naturally earn an A in every subject, even though she herself has never given an A to anyone.

 

[Unkotare]

"Bully teacher"?

For believing in the potential of students? For having faith in them? Are you feeling alright?

 

[mgh80]

I said it in another thread, people thought race relations got bad under Obama... oh it is going to get worse. A lot lot worse in the next 4 years. If Trump keeps doing the things he is doing, this could be one of the most disastrous Presidencies ever... and quite honestly could lead to a near Civil War.

It didn't get bad under Obama. It was always there. But once Obama was elected, Republicans showed us who they are. I was pointing out the GOP is 90% white before Obama was ever elected. That tells you something about the GOP.

"Bully teacher"?

For believing in the potential of students? For having faith in them? Are you feeling alright?

I believe in the potential of all of my students...however I am realistic enough to understand that not all of them will reach their potential. That doesn't stop me from attempting, however it's impossible to save everybody.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Usually, the teachers that other teachers respect, have this in common, that they blame the students for not fully understanding the curriculum. They also say, that the good student needs no teaching. How does this make sense? Can you achieve a degree or any kind of certificate, by just self teaching and no teachers? And if so, then do teachers want to make themselves redundant? I don't understand. How does this work?

Teachers don't always blame students. However you can lead a horse to water, you can make it drink.

 

[Unkotare]

I said it in another thread, people thought race relations got bad under Obama... oh it is going to get worse. A lot lot worse in the next 4 years. If Trump keeps doing the things he is doing, this could be one of the most disastrous Presidencies ever... and quite honestly could lead to a near Civil War.

It didn't get bad under Obama. It was always there. But once Obama was elected, Republicans showed us who they are. I was pointing out the GOP is 90% white before Obama was ever elected. That tells you something about the GOP.

"Bully teacher"?

For believing in the potential of students? For having faith in them? Are you feeling alright?

I believe in the potential of all of my students.......

Do you really?

 

[anotherlife]

"Bully teacher"?

For believing in the potential of students? For having faith in them? Are you feeling alright?

Hmmm, okay, then I get it, these teachers want to live through their students. Interesting.