Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[GLASNOST]

Why do you bore the forum, even on other threads with your word salads?

You are too young and too inexperienced in life to contribute to this discussion so it is best that you remain in your Cult and just observe what you do not understand.

 

[Robert W]

You are too young and too inexperienced in life to contribute to this discussion so it is best that you remain in your Cult and just observe what you do not understand.

Yes, at 87 I am so young. Lies you told about the LDS. That we glorify killing. The word Cult means we study and learn. Thank you.

 

[GLASNOST]

Lies you told about the LDS.

Everything I said has been proven, right here on this thread. Anything I didn't say is in your imagination. Mormonism is a Cult. Those who believe in it are blaspheming Cultists. God does not agree with killing. The Mormon Church thinks killing is honourable. Mormons teach lessons in Satanism. Satan encourages killing, God does not. It’s that simple.

 

[Cougarbear]

Here below .....

,,,,, are you going to deny it
YOU’VE BEEN DUPED BY YOUR CHURCH.

It says that the Church has no doctrine preventing a person to serve in the military. But nowhere does it say a person must serve in the military. Or are you so bad at reading comprehension of English? You have been duped into believing LDS members are required to serve in military. The Church doesn’t even require members to serve in the Church’s Missionary army to go out and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are an arrogant prick my sir. Allah will take away your 72 virgins for lying!

 

[Cougarbear]

Faith in a Satanic Cult that supports and glorifies murdering innocent men, women, and children simply for being from another country. You say your faith in it is stronger. Ain't that wonderful!

You don’t even know what Jesus Christ said. You rely on primitive morons [uneducated, if not actual morons] with limited wisdom. Their only attributes were an abundance of superstition and Cultist, blasphemous fantasies about God that mock the teachings of Judaism which is the basis upon which Christianity deformed. You have defiled humanity's Covenant with God and THAT is the gospel that you call “true”.
YOU’VE BEEN DUPED BY YOUR CHURCH.

Again, reading comprehension issues. The name of our Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do you see the name Satan anywhere in the name? We worship the Father in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ. We end prayers in the name of Jesus Christ. We end ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ. We do all things as commanded by Jesus Christ in the name of Jesus Christ. Our faith is in Jesus Christ. You are an idiot who cannot read.

 

[Cougarbear]

I know those are LDS beliefs. I know better, but LDS believes LDS beliefs supersede the beliefs of others, and LDS disregards them. LDS belief maintains LDS members can trod roughshod over others, sneer at them, and have authority over them. LDS believes LDS reigns over all. LDS believes in LDS and that is all LDS believes in. LDS uses Christ's name, not Christ himself, to justify all they do, all the lies,the disrespect of others, the supposed superiority. I could not care less about any of this. I feel truly sorry you are ensnared in Joseph Smith's cons.

What I feel strongly about is that today everyone should be able to get their name on a list that is respected by LDS that they are never to be given a proxy baptism, that no one ever puts words into their mouths after they have passed away. This is because I feel strongly about freedom and free will, a God-given right. I realize LDS believes members are potential Gods who can disregard the gifts of any other God, but LDS is not my God. LDS is not Jesus Christ, the Word of God. What I want from LDS is for LDS to respect the choices and lives of others. Jesus did no less. We deserve no less.

And I don't want to hear for the nth time that souls can reject LDS proxy baptisms, that LDS is doing nothing wrong. Of course LDS is doing wrong, and know it. LDS is interfering with body, mind, and soul/spirit--i.e., the whole person.

My body rejects what LDS will be doing what after my death, my mind rejects what LDS is doing after my death, and so does my spirit/soul who is communicating with you now. Why is LDS turning a deaf ear? I know. LDS beliefs put their above all others, LDS belief is authority is over all. What it also says is that LDS does not consider this ordinance of theirs sacred either, merely a scam of their own need for world authority.

You believe the con. And those who clutch to the con cannot be reasoned with.

I am not asking much. I am asking LDS to make sure I am never given this unwanted, despised proxy "baptism". My body, mind, and soul/spirit want nothing to do with it. My belief is in one baptism (Ephesians 4:5).

Yes, I am emotional (what you call being an idiot) about this. I also know I shouldn't be and am not 99% of the time as I believe that a proxy "baptism" is impotent, a pretense. What bothers me that proxy "baptism" is a blasphemy, and blasphemy is my great objection. I do care about that.

So, imagine you go to the other side of the veil of life to the spirit world. And, what you expected is not what you expected. There is no purgatory like you were taught by the Catholics. Instead, you realize Jesus established a missionary army to teach and preach to the spirts of the dead the Gospel from The Book of Mormon. But you still have to decide based on faith of Christ and the Doctrine presented that you objected to in earthly life. And, being a faithful person in life you accept it then. But, we can’t do your work because you let emotional and you bias override logic, reasoning blocking out the influence of the Holy Ghost. You will have to wait for the Millennium when Christ is King of the Earth and run by His laws and doctrine. If that’s okay for you, it’s not for all those who now want their work done for them. Who are you to deny anyone their eternal right to baptism? And baptism with proper authority? Who are you to take away billions of people’s rights to be baptized through proxy work of faithful LDS people? Stop being a hypocrite driven by fear, anger, hatred and lack of knowledge blinded by the craftiness of men and women.

 

[Meriweather]

So, imagine you go to the other side of the veil of life to the spirit world.

You don't understand. I don't have to imagine. So if you believe someone is imagining, you may wish to take a good look in the mirror. Then study how God has always allowed mankind their own choice, and has never approved anyone forcing personal his/her beliefs onto others.

 

[onefour1]

You don't understand. I don't have to imagine. So if you believe someone is imagining, you may wish to take a good look in the mirror. Then study how God has always allowed mankind their own choice, and has never approved anyone forcing personal his/her beliefs onto others.

What you fail to understand is that baptisms or any other ordinance we perform for the dead is not forced upon them. The dead, in the world of spirits, are preached to as mentioned in 1 Peter 4:6. They are then still given the choice to accept or reject these teachings. They are also give the free will to accept or reject the baptism performed for them by proxy. Free will is part of the overall plan of God for his children, else how could they truly become good beings in and of themselves. Baptisms for the dead and all other necessary ordinances of the gospel are never forced upon the individual but they always retain their free will to accept the gospel and all its saving ordinances. We simply do the work for the dead so that it is performed in their behalf and actually gives them the choice to accept or reject it. Without the baptism then they are without the ordinance and as Jesus himself taught, they cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[GLASNOST]

It says that the Church has no doctrine preventing a person to serve in the military. But nowhere does it say a person must serve in the military. Or are you so bad at reading comprehension of English?

The Mormon Church has a doctrine honouring those who murder people just because they are from another country. But nowhere did I say anything about them being compelled to serve in the military. Or are you so bad at reading comprehension of English?

You have been duped into believing LDS members are required to serve in military.

You’ve answered my question - You really are “so bad at reading comprehension of English”.

You are an arrogant prick my sir.

No, I am an arrogant superior far above you. You are an absurd and illiterate little ass.

Allah will take away your 72 virgins for lying!

How many virgins do you Mormons get for lying? Oh, that’s right, you get to have 72 wives while living and lying. Ain’t that nice!

So, imagine you go to the other side of the veil of life to the spirit world. And, what you expected is not what you expected.

I don’t have any expectations. But, imagine that YOU go to the other side of the veil of life to the spirit world. And, what you expected is not what you expected.

Instead, you realize Jesus established a missionary army to teach and preach to the spirts of the dead the Gospel from The Book of Mormon.

That’s the part you will realise that it is against your expectations of what you were taught in the Satanic Mormon Cult. But you still have to decide based on faith of the Cult of blasphemous Mormonism and the Doctrine of defiling the Covenant presented in earthly life.

you let emotional and you bias override logic, reasoning blocking out the influence of the Holy Ghost.

How dare you use the term “logic” to support your superstitious notion of a ghost!

Who are you to deny anyone their eternal right to baptism?

Who are you to claim that I did?

And baptism with proper authority?

The authority of a Satanic hokus-pokus Cult seems to impress you.

Who are you to take away billions of people’s rights to be baptized through proxy work of faithful LDS people?

Again, who are you to claim that I do? If my insight denies you your belief in the virtue of baptism then your “faith” is very weak …. wouldn’t you say?

Stop being a hypocrite

A hypocrite is a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion. That would be you, not me. I am preaching no religion at all. But as far as virtue goes ….. yes, I put myself in better standing with regards to taking someone’s life. You Mormons think it’s OK to murder, I do not. But that doesn’t make me a hypocrite, because my conviction is true and honest, not false. I guess you’re the hypocrite, huh.

….. driven by fear ...

Fear of what? Explain yourself.

... anger ...

Anger about what? Explain yourself.

... hatred ...

Hatred for what? Explain yourself.

and lack of knowledge.

My knowledge is far superior to yours. In fact, you have none at all. Knowledge doesn’t come from a book. Knowledge comes from the balance between teaching (yes, as a book for example) AND experience. Those two put together afford what is called “wisdom”. Without experience you lack knowledge & wisdom and that is where you are right now …. a book of superstition that keeps your mind befuddled and making absurd conclusions about 'hypocrisy' and 'fear' and 'anger' and 'hatred' just because they possess knowledge & wisdom but you do not. But do I deny you your right to believe in your Cultish nonsense? No, I don’t. Go right ahead and conduct your life worshipping those who take other’s lives with them. But you ain’t takin’ mine.

 

[Meriweather]

What you fail to understand is that baptisms or any other ordinance we perform for the dead is not forced upon them.

Then be open to the living submitting their names to NOT be proxy "baptized" after their deaths. If LDS refuses to do this, then they are forcing baptism on the unwilling. This is not hard to understand. In the computer age, it would not be hard to implement.
As for the rest of your post: Your beliefs are not the beliefs of the majority, nor are they what Jesus taught. Jesus, himself, went down to the dead. He did not make it a proxy event.

 

[GLASNOST]

What you fail to understand is that baptisms or any other ordinance we perform for the dead is not forced upon them.

Not forced upon them? Kind of like sticking a fence-post in the ground, huh? Nobody forces it upon them. They just jump in on their own.

The dead, in the world of spirits, are preached to

Yeah, I'm sure:

 

[Cougarbear]

You don't understand. I don't have to imagine. So if you believe someone is imagining, you may wish to take a good look in the mirror. Then study how God has always allowed mankind their own choice, and has never approved anyone forcing personal his/her beliefs onto others.

Who is forcing anyone? You don’t believe our work is real. So, who is being forced? You’re a hypocrite.

When you get to the spirit prison, and you will at this rate, you can ignore the teaching from the Lord and his missionaries. And no one will force you to accept the true Gospel. Someone will eventually be baptized for you with true authority and you’ll never be forced to accept it. If you accept the Gospel message then the baptism will have power for you. But again, you don’t believe we can affect anyone so you are again a hypocrite.

 

[Cougarbear]

The Mormon Church has a doctrine honouring those who murder people just because they are from another country. But nowhere did I say anything about them being compelled to serve in the military. Or are you so bad at reading comprehension of English?

You’ve answered my question - You really are “so bad at reading comprehension of English”.

No, I am an arrogant superior far above you. You are an absurd and illiterate little ass.

How many virgins do you Mormons get for lying? Oh, that’s right, you get to have 72 wives while living and lying. Ain’t that nice!

I don’t have any expectations. But, imagine that YOU go to the other side of the veil of life to the spirit world. And, what you expected is not what you expected.

That’s the part you will realise that it is against your expectations of what you were taught in the Satanic Mormon Cult. But you still have to decide based on faith of the Cult of blasphemous Mormonism and the Doctrine of defiling the Covenant presented in earthly life.

How dare you use the term “logic” to support your superstitious notion of a ghost!

Who are you to claim that I did?

The authority of a Satanic hokus-pokus Cult seems to impress you.

Again, who are you to claim that I do? If my insight denies you your belief in the virtue of baptism then your “faith” is very weak …. wouldn’t you say?

A hypocrite is a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion. That would be you, not me. I am preaching no religion at all. But as far as virtue goes ….. yes, I put myself in better standing with regards to taking someone’s life. You Mormons think it’s OK to murder, I do not. But that doesn’t make me a hypocrite, because my conviction is true and honest, not false. I guess you’re the hypocrite, huh.

Fear of what? Explain yourself.

Anger about what? Explain yourself.

Hatred for what? Explain yourself.

My knowledge is far superior to yours. In fact, you have none at all. Knowledge doesn’t come from a book. Knowledge comes from the balance between teaching (yes, as a book for example) AND experience. Those two put together afford what is called “wisdom”. Without experience you lack knowledge & wisdom and that is where you are right now …. a book of superstition that keeps your mind befuddled and making absurd conclusions about 'hypocrisy' and 'fear' and 'anger' and 'hatred' just because they possess knowledge & wisdom but you do not. But do I deny you your right to believe in your Cultish nonsense? No, I don’t. Go right ahead and conduct your life worshipping those who take other’s lives with them. But you ain’t takin’ mine.

Your knowledge is that of a retarded ant. All you did is do the childish thing “same to you but more of it.” So childish. You just proved me correct. Thank you.

 

[GLASNOST]

When you get to the spirit prison …

Is that in Kolob or only somewhere near it?

Your knowledge is that of a retarded ant.

You must be 10-years old. I have already proved that my knowledge is far greater than yours. Do retarded ants know that the Satanist Cult of the Mormon Church praises murderers? No? In that case I’d say that I know more than you and retarded ants. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

 

[Cougarbear]

Is that in Kolob or only somewhere near it?

You must be 10-years old. I have already proved that my knowledge is far greater than yours. Do retarded ants know that the Satanist Cult of the Mormon Church praises murderers? No? In that case I’d say that I know more than you and retarded ants. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

You are so uneducated. Even ancient Jews knew about Kolob.

 

[GLASNOST]

You are so uneducated. Even ancient Jews knew about Kolob.

You are so dumbed-down by the Satanic Cult Mormon Church that you don't know it is fictional and that your belief that God lives in those parts is pure fantasy. I don't even think you've reached puberty. But some day - some day. Maybe when your Kolob God meets Xenu they can tap dance their way down the Milky Way and you can invite them to lunch for a Happy Meal.

 

[GLASNOST]

Who are you to deny anyone their eternal right to baptism?

If you think the opinion of anyone on this forum prevents you from having your baptism then your faith is really, REALLY low!

 

[Meriweather]

Who is forcing anyone? You don’t believe our work is real. So, who is being forced? You’re a hypocrite.

When you get to the spirit prison, and you will at this rate, you can ignore the teaching from the Lord and his missionaries. And no one will force you to accept the true Gospel. Someone will eventually be baptized for you with true authority and you’ll never be forced to accept it. If you accept the Gospel message then the baptism will have power for you. But again, you don’t believe we can affect anyone so you are again a hypocrite.

This is why it is impossible to have a discussion with the LDS on this matter. It always turns into LDS turning to throwing insults. I feel sorry that insults is all LDS has. The reality I am dealing with is the physical/earthly part of what LDS is doing. Think about it. Why don't you find a list of the living, line up your proxies, and have your baptisms while they are still living? Isn't it because, deep down, you know that would not be proper. What is not proper in this life is not proper in the next. It is not proper for a proxy to speak, do something in another's name without knowing they have that person's authority to act in their name. Without that person's authority, any act/words are null and void before any words/actions take place. That is why I don't I don't believe your "work" is real.

The blasphemy is that you believe it is incumbent upon the LDS Church to preach its doctrines to the dead instead of stepping aside and humbly recall that it is Christ who goes to the dead with his Gospel.

Consider that perhaps the hypocrisy is that LDS does not trust Christ in the position LDS has, without authority, assumed to be their own. In doing so LDS places itself above Christ, against the free will of others not to have a proxy go through a ceremony in the names of another.

Here is another possibility: Why not, through prayer, call the dead to a baptismal ceremony, all nameless, where LDS faithful (again all nameless) attend and are ceremonially baptized on behalf of the dead who have gathered for this ceremony.

I'll await your next insults thinking of the irony that it is insults LDS stand behind when discussing this practice of theirs.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... the spirits of the dead are baptized ..... by one who has the authority to baptize.

Oh, only by the one who has the authority to baptize? Yes, that makes good sense.

... baptisms we perform for the dead is not forced upon them. .... They are still given ... the free will to accept or reject the baptism

I attended several of those “baptisms of the dead” many years ago and that was a big problem because many of the deceased didn't agree to being baptised, especially the devout Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists. However, the Mormon Church found a solution by bringing along a sledge hammer to all baptism ceremonies to make certain the deceased is really & truly dead. That put an end to any further disagreements. Naturally, only "the one with the authority" is allowed to administer the hammer.

Pay attention and learn
cnm
and
Meriweather

 

[onefour1]

Then be open to the living submitting their names to NOT be proxy "baptized" after their deaths. If LDS refuses to do this, then they are forcing baptism on the unwilling. This is not hard to understand. In the computer age, it would not be hard to implement.
As for the rest of your post: Your beliefs are not the beliefs of the majority, nor are they what Jesus taught. Jesus, himself, went down to the dead. He did not make it a proxy event.

Like I said, they are not forcing any baptism on anybody. If a dead person refuses to accept it, then it is of no effect and is not forced upon them. In the spirit world they are given the opportunity to accept or reject it. It is the will of the Lord that the work be done so that they have a choice. A person in this life once they die may decide to change their mind and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ and want to be baptized. However, they cannot enter the waters of baptism in the spirit world but would need to have it done by proxy. Thus if nobody does their work, they would not be able to enter the kingdom of God. So from our view, if the person still retains the choice to accept it or reject it, then it is not forced upon them. It really has no meaning to those who reject it and is of no effect. But for those who wish to accept it, their work is done and they can gain access to the kingdom of God. So there's really no reason for you to get butt hurt over us doing this work since it does not take away anyone's free will to accept baptism or any other ordinance performed in their behalf. But like I said, the opportunity is left open to those who are in the spirit world and is not to be denied by them or any other living relative while living in this world. This is the will of God that we do this work so that the dead will still have the opportunity if they change their minds in the world of spirits. God does not want that opportunity thwarted in the event that they change their minds and accept his gospel in the hereafter. The dead are allowed to make that choice in the world of spirits. God still wants them to have that choice even after they are dead.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.