Zone1 Why did Jesus come to earth?

[SweetSue92]

Abundant blessings and eternal life is the promise for complying with the Divine commands in the WAY Jesus taught which is the same WAY that Moses originally taught to follow the Law that was lost to time after his death.

What on earth is this mess? What are you talking about, law and grace? Totally different things, yes. Israelites complied because that was their salvation. Christians' salvation is grace.

 

[Meriweather]

I agree with this, but the shading is important. Jesus did not come to establish an earthly kingdom so much as to save sinners from their sin--and to rescue them from death. This is not only corroborated in the NT but in the old as well, even in the garden, when God cursed the snake.

Yet, there are several Bible verses that prophecy that the Messiah would establish an earthly kingdom. If I recall correctly, one that is often noted is in Daniel. Do you believe Jesus is the messiah and that he fulfilled messianic prophecies?

 

[SweetSue92]

Yet, there are several Bible verses that prophecy that the Messiah would establish an earthly kingdom. If I recall correctly, one that is often noted is in Daniel. Do you believe Jesus is the messiah and that he fulfilled messianic prophecies?

The Kingdom of God was "among you" in that Jesus was present. He is now present through the Holy Spirit, which lives in believers. The earthly kingdom has to do with that, not the church.

I think the fundamental disconnect here is that Catholics believe they even dispense and, to some degree, control the Holy Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

Maybe so.

But on the wrong side of the Law. Your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field.

You can't claim that the wages of sin are death and then expect. anyone to believe you have eternal life by doing the very thing God promises results in death, a curse. Unless of course death is exactly what you are peddling.

We believe in and follow the words and teachings of Christ. I understand you have a different interpretation of what Jesus said/meant and expect all of us to end up in hell. That is your belief. Church belief differs.

 

[Donald H]

Jesus was fully human. He described himself as the son of man. He is also fully divine as he was clear God is his father.

He was the son of 'man' now? When did that change?

 

[hobelim]

We believe in and follow the words and teachings of Christ. I understand you have a different interpretation of what Jesus said/meant and expect all of us to end up in hell. That is your belief. Church belief differs.

No dear, you don't understand. Go figure. If God is God and what Jesus taught is the Truth then because you openly and brazenly defy the Law of God at Mass, a mortal sin, you already died and descended into hell, the realm of the dead. I am not saying that you are going to end up in hell. I am saying that you are already in it.


YOU HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY

 

[Meriweather]

The Kingdom of God was "among you" in that Jesus was present. He is now present through the Holy Spirit, which lives in believers. The earthly kingdom has to do with that, not the church.

Jesus built the Church and he also sent the Holy Spirit. Neither should be dismissed.

I think the fundamental disconnect here is that Catholics believe they even dispense and, to some degree, control the Holy Spirit.

No, the Catholic Church does not teach--nor do Catholics believe--that they dispense the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus. Catholics remember what Jesus taught all those years ago that, like the wind, the Holy Spirit comes and goes as the Spirit wills. There is no control over the Spirit. I am sure you know that. And so do Catholics.

 

[Meriweather]

No dear, you don't understand. Go figure. If God is God and what Jesus taught is the Truth then because you openly and brazenly defy the Law of God at Mass, a mortal sin, you already died and descended into hell, the realm of the dead. I am not saying that you are going to end up in hell. I am saying that you are already in it.


YOU HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY

In following Christ and his Words, I certainly have his grace and blessings. I guess you can call that a reward, but I believe the more accurate words are grace and blessings.

 

[hadit]

Jesus came to build an earthly kingdom, meant for the whole world. Which part are you thinking of leaving out?

Why do you take it to the extreme like that? I never said anything about leaving things out, I said the gospel can be spread without a global bureaucracy. Jesus established His Church, absolutely, but that was not the most important reason for Him coming.

 

[hobelim]

In following Christ and his Words, I certainly have his grace and blessings. I guess you can call that a reward, but I believe the more accurate words are grace and blessings.

Wow. Even though you are in hell, you don't even realize it. Just goes to show that my God is not such a meanie.

Enjoy your delusuions!

Thats all the reward you will ever get.

 

[Meriweather]

Why do you take it to the extreme like that? I never said anything about leaving things out, I said the gospel can be spread without a global bureaucracy. Jesus established His Church, absolutely, but that was not the most important reason for Him coming.

Go back to what Jesus said and his references to Isaiah. The Church is not a bureaucracy. The Church is the assembly of the servants of God. The steward (see Isaiah) is to be a father figure, and the servant of all the servants.

 

[hobelim]

The Church is the assembly of the servants of God

No one whose balls have been crushed can become a member of the assembly of the Lord.

Its the Law!

 

[Meriweather]

Wow. Even though you are in hell, you don't even realize it. Just goes to show that my God is not such a meanie.

Enjoy your delusuions!

Thats all the reward you will ever get.

Possibly. But from my life and experiences I am not the one with delusions, so from time-to-time you may wish to contemplate the possibility that if I'm not the one with delusions, they may be coming from within yourself?

 

[hadit]

Go back to what Jesus said and his references to Isaiah. The Church is not a bureaucracy. The Church is the assembly of the servants of God. The steward (see Isaiah) is to be a father figure, and the servant of all the servants.

That is why God established Apostles and elders, those with great responsibility to lead the Church. That is not to be just one man.

 

[hadit]

Wow. Even though you are in hell, you don't even realize it. Just goes to show that my God is not such a meanie.

Enjoy your delusuions!

Thats all the reward you will ever get.

This is the closest I will ever get to hell.

 

[hobelim]

Possibly. But from my life and experiences I am not the one with delusions, so from time-to-time you may wish to contemplate the possibility that if I'm not the one with delusions, they may be coming from within yourself?

No. I have seen with my own eyes what you are saying and doing on your knees at Mass. You are not invisible.

You openly and brazenly defy the Law of God at every Mass, always dying every time you set aside the Law of God and turn to a lifeless piece of bread made by human hands for spiritual life, never finding peace in death.

If you have swallowed the specious lies of men inspired by demons and profess to believe that the way to eternal life is doing the very thing that God promises results in death then it is you who is under a very strong delusion.


So don't get all huffy with me for pointing it out. Everyone already knows this is what you openly do, except you.


Enjoy!

 

[Meriweather]

That is why God established Apostles and elders, those with great responsibility to lead the Church. That is not to be just one man.

Jesus appointed a steward, just like it was done in Isaiah, during the times of kings. Naturally, this does not preclude people holding other positions. Paul outlines this well...many parts but one body.

 

[BreezeWood]

This wouldn't have happened without Jesus building the Church.

they did not build a church - theirs is garden earth the heavenly creation and transmitted by spoken communication that when real, not forgeries in desert bibles is eternal ...

 

[Meriweather]

So don't get all huffy with me

I don't get huffy--not with you nor anyone else on line. If you paint me as huffy, that's your own paint and your own brush. I'm merely here to have a pleasant conversation with others who also enjoy conversing about religion and God.

 

[BreezeWood]

Without His sacrifice, there would be no reason for the Church to exist,

many claim jesus is jewish or certainly not were they heavenly they would not have believed in original sin and would be a fruitless sacrifice as is claimed ... they were crucified for their belief in self determination than a jewish messiah that would never be sent by the heavens to save anyone.